Alan Moore's MIRACLEMAN (As GOOD as they say?) 

@Neil Brown usually I'm not rude to people online, but looking at your comments you're clearly trolling - I hope it's cold under your bridge.

I was buying it as marvel republished it a few years ago, i had no idea what it was i just thought it sounded cool and the shop owner was a big captain marvel shazam guy and he recommended it so i got it....... To say i was not ready for what i was getting into would be a massive understatement. IT blew my mind especially becuase at the time marvel was doing the marvel now all new all different garbage so this was like a crazy breath of fresh air for me

Some Okie Dude great thoughts. Yes- the end fight with Kid Miracleman is horrifying. And apparently a lot of the inspiration for the ending of Kevin Smith’s Dogma. Strangely, I didn’t take the ending of Miracleman forming is own Utopia to be a negative connotation- it could be taken that way, but I felt like Moore presented it in a way that it was a positive evolution of humanity.

@@ImperiusRex Yeah, re-reading that, I didn't word that correctly. But I think there's an implication in the story that his utopia will eventually fail because Miracleman has no understanding of humanity anymore, such as the point where he offers Liz a superhero body and she refuses, asking if he's forgotten what he's asking her to give up. Like you said in the video, Mike's not a bad guy, he wants to do the right thing. But he's completely eliminated free choice with his utopia and...us humans...we like our freedom. It's also heartbreaking that millions had to die and Mike had to kill his childhood friend in order to get to that point. I think the superhero utopia is an endlessly fascinating idea and I'd of loved to see what Gaiman did with it...but we'll never know. I think that the genius of Moore is that he never deliberately tells you what he thinks or how you should think, he lets you do it yourself. I think that's why his works, as well as this one, continue to stick with me to this day.

I think it was intended to be a mixed bag. Moore doesn't like to talk down to the readers -- he presented it as an interesting moral question. I mean that's my take -- but I never considered anyone could take it any other way.

Some Okie Dude Back in the 80’s Grant Morrison did Zenith. 2000ad’s answer to super heroes. It is an underrated gem. And quite frankly much better than Moore’s Watchmen. Zenith is a pop star that uses his powers for his career. Until its Nazi Supermen and Dark Gods time. There is even a Crises on Infinite Earths theme. It is a great pity Zenith never went mainstream. But its not too late! I am a great fan of Moores Future shocks he did in 2000ad. The 80’s 2000 ad is a body of true comic art at its finest.

Your forgetting Dr.Manhatten. the watchman arc is still a God arc. Just like Miricleman. Just like Swamping.

Been trying to get a hold of his Supreme run for years. And we're talking about the same Supreme that was created by Liefeld, right?

It started from Liefeld's run, but Moore's run was a revision of the character into a completely different charter, and Moore worked that into the story in a brilliant way. Liefeld's Supreme was a grim, gritty version of Superman, and Moore changed him into the Silver-Age Superman because Moore wanted to get away from the dark comics inspired by Watchmen and The Dark Knight Returns. He wanted to bring imagination and fun back to comics. Moore's Supreme is my favorite Superman story. Have you tried looking online for Supreme comics? They were collected into two trade paperbacks "The Story of the Year" and "The Return."

I can totally see that. During our filming, Dave mentioned that Snyder would be a really good candidate for adapting this story. (can't recall if that commented made it into the video or not- might have cut it for time) It definitely shares his darker, more pessimistic view of the super heroes, and would lend itself to one hell of a fight scene at the end, very reminiscent of Man of Steel now that you mention it. Synder doesn't get enough credit I tells ya.

Imperius Rex I agree, I wish the man had gotten to finish out his planned DCEU idea, just to see what it would have been like. But I guess the darker tone just didn't work for people

Yep. Had the misfortune of coming out right when Guardians of the Galaxy and everything started bringing the pop-music fun to the superhero genre. You could see WB try to do a course-correction just over the span of the two Suicide Squad trailers. But at that point, BVS was already in the can (thankfully) so they couldn't mess with it. I'm a fan of Snyder's "taking things seriously" approach. They don't all have to be lively romps. We can have mature superhero flicks as well. Hell, I prefer them. I wish we could've seen his Justice League on-tampered. What we got was so forgettably mediocre it's hard to cast blame, but I feel Snyder's would've at least been an INTERESTING mess.

Imperius Rex Summed it up perfectly. They tried to do Marvel when the movies they had were a different beast altogether. I have issues with BvS scriptwise in places, but with the right writer something great could have come out of the Justice League movies. Reminds me a lot of Josh Trank and the Fantastic Four disaster. Maybe studios will take more chances, but I don't think they get how they sabotaged themselves.

Agreed. And I'm one of the few who enjoy the Trank Fantastic Four for what it COULD have been. I like the weird sci-fi horror angle. I just wish he would've had free reign on it without the interference. You can pretty much spot the moment where the studio stepped in and said "nu-uh."

It's a beautiful thing, isn't it?

But that's a knock-off. What do you think a knock-off is?

Same shit

Never has an argument been more different than your opening statement. You say it wasn't a 'knock-off" and then detail how exactly it was a knock-off. You use that word but I do not think you know what it means.

Has anyone mentioned that Chuck Austen Drew an issue? If you read the whole thing, you'll notice it's him when the quality of art drops dramatically. He used his real name then but stopped after he did that issue. The issue that looks like a high schooler with a bit of talent could've done it.

Some Okie Dude yessir! Huge news! Can’t believe there isn’t more praise going around for this! I guess since the book is like 10-15 years old, it’s been out of public consciousness for so long. Can’t wait to see where he takes it.

And 2018, and 2017, 2016...1992...

Yeah- it looks like it's happening...

@@ImperiusRex I wont be buying it. Nothing is sacred anymore. The other thing that irritates me is now the marvel swarm are buying up all the back issues of MM, both the marvel reprints and the eclipse stuff, DRIVING the damn price for 1, 9 and 15 through the roof. Its annoying.

@@jonathansoko1085 I have the feeling it will amount to the same impact as Doomsday Clock and the Watchmen characters had for DC. Hardcore comic fans love the characters, but the general audience has no idea who they are. Like when they brought Tom Strong and family into the DC book The Terrifics. Big news for Alan Moore fans, and nothing for anyone else. And wouldn't you know it- it was quickly forgotten about and faded away. I feel like Miracle Man will do the same. The Alan Moore curse/gift.

It warms our hearts to hear that Matheus. We saved this one until you were free to ensure that you got the first look at it! ;) Thanks for watching!

Nothing would make me happier. This might be one of those Don Quixotic -type of quests that never reaches conclusion though... after all, Gaiman is steeped in DC comics' new Sandman imprint at the moment, so I don't know how much he'd have to do with Marvel right now. That being said, I never thought we'd see him tackle more Sandman either, so I suppose anything is possible.

@@ImperiusRex WHAT??? First: THE NAME IS DON QUIXOTE, NOT "Don Quixotic..." Second: THE BOOK DOES HAVE A CONCLUSION... What a bunch of ignorants you are in this channel :S:S I mean: Why would you even mention a book you don´t know, or haven´t read?

@@gabrielp9646 Gabe-- first off... if you hate our channel so much, why on earth are you digging through comments from over a year ago? Second- I know it's Quixote, ya little turd. I'm using the universally-known name as a description... as in: "An impulsive person or act might be regarded as quixotic." (see your above comment as an example) Here's the dictionary definition if you're still up in arms or still mad because we think Thanos is a dummy. www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/quixotic And third: The book does NOT have a conclusion. Alan Moore wrote three volumes. Then Neil Gaiman took over the title years later, with the intention of doing another three volumes: The Golden, The Silver, and the Bronze Age. Only the Golden Age has been published, thus- making the work unfinished. Fourth- Eat shit Gabe.

​@@ImperiusRex Hey, do you know what´s the difference between you and me?? I don´t get triggered, and I don´t call other people a "little turd". Like, if you wanted to write a smart response, this only makes my opinion of you worst. Also: What has Thanos to do with ANYTHING??? You can say whatever you want, but my respect for you just goes lower and lower the more I hear. And don´t say "I don´t care what you think about me", because people who don´t care don´t get all hyper-sensitive, triggered and emotional like you did. Also, I WAS TALKING ABOUT THE DON QUIXOTE BOOK, NOT ABOUT MIRACLE MAN... xDxDxD What am I doing here?? Well, that´s what happens when you use cheap clickbait titles like "Is Miracle Man as Good as they say??". RU-vid recomended this video yesterday, and the shameless title is what cought my attention. Honestly, I was angry at you before. Now Im starting to feel kind of sorry for you. You seem to have the emotional intelligence of a 12 year old. That said, as a spanish professional writing coach, from the land of Cervantes, I have to say: Ive always thought enlgish was kind of a dumb and simple language, but "quixotic" is one of the dumbest terms Ive heard so far.

@@gabrielp9646 Gabe Gabe Gabe...

I think there referring to another story Alan Moore planned to write, but which he only completed the first few episodes for. I haven't read the trades (only the singles), but my guess is that these few episodes are included in the trades as if they are part of the larger miracleman story. Alan did plan to tie the two stories together (MM is at the start of the Warpsmith stories), but he abandoned that and basically wrote the rest of MM as if the Warpsmith tale never happened (because it didn't, really). But for "behind the scenes" additijak material it's great to read -- it just doesn't really fit the MM story-proper

Exactly! Warpsmiths were one of my favourite parts of these books, this side story gave me a Michael Moorcock vibe too!

You… want me to… physically come over and play the next video?

Thanks Michael- Let's get a definitive pronunciation on that last name from you, huh? Is it "More-ANN?" :)

Imperius Rex hahaha for me it's more like "mourn" great channel , funny stuff

Good to know. Case closed Michael, case closed...

No, Captain Marvel was created under Fawcett; Marvelman was created under L. Miller & Son. Where is this coming from?

@@Matthew-ve7uv Do your research, its not that difficult bro.

Is that meant to be ironic? I know it's easy, which is why I'm surprised you've just pulled this out of your ass and made yourself look like a complete fucking idiot when 60 seconds on Google could have saved you the embarrassment. "Miracleman, formerly known as Marvelman, is a fictional superhero appearing in comic books published by Marvel Comics. Marvelman was created in 1954 by writer-artist Mick Anglo for publisher L. Miller & Son." en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marvelman "Captain Marvel first appeared in Whiz Comics #2 (cover-dated Feb. 1940), published by Fawcett Comics." en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Captain_Marvel_(DC_Comics) I mean, I get why you might be dumb enough to make a completely false statement without even checking if the shit you just made up was true, but to then arrogantly tell someone else how easy it is to do research? Do you have a mental disability? If so, I'm sorry; but otherwise, what an asshole.

@@Matthew-ve7uv "I get why you might be dumb enought to make a completely fake statement without even checking". Is not that, my very mature and polite friend. Is that I trust Neil Gaiman more than wikipedia: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-isLW0TTB2R0.html You should see the kind of crap I used to edit into wikipedia pages a few years ago, tho. Just for fun xDxD And yes, I wrote my response one year later. Just so you know how much I really care about what a frustrated online troll has to say. Also, it just take a quick look to this comment section to see who really is making up facts here, and who has a point. Im far from the only one to remark this, because its a known fact in the industry. But honestly, your comment makes me worry. So many insults in such a short space. So much anger, and so little emotional intelligence. Are you all right? Do you need some friends, or something? :S:S

Or better yet, check out the original story as it was presented in Warrior magazine before Eclipse started their reprint series (as a bonus, you'll also get the original version of V For Vendetta alongside Marvelman in those same editions of Warrior magazine).

Good to know Kev!

How do you know? People who have that name in real life pronounce it "More-an." Here's even a vocal guide on RU-vid: m.ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-0cztZHRhVUc.html. Where are you getting your info from? Do you have interview with Moore or something?

@@Matthew-ve7uv I would venture to guess that it's because the surname "Moran" is an Irish one, and Kevin O'Malley above, going from his name, is also Irish and is therefore going off his own knowledge. But I have heard English people of Irish origin pronounce that surname "Mor-ANN", so personally, I don't know for certain.

I only take issue with O'Malley's certainty -- he's not "going off his own knowledge," because he doesn't know. You have more knowledge and less certainty, which is a much better attitude overall

Isn’t Marvelman just a very cheesy Shazam facsimile?

@@ImperiusRex Yes, but that isn't a bad thing. I like Marvelman more than Miracleman because of the cheese. Also because I hate deconstructive fiction, and I really don't care for Moore's work.

Well there you have it.

@@ImperiusRex I actually own miracle man. And shazaam is my favorite superhero. Miracle man was ok but its concepts werent fleshed out that great. Thats why it never blew up like watchmen

Great -- another claim of ownership. This is going to tie the thing up for another few decades.

Oh, you mean the books that we just discuss in detail for 15 minutes? About how much we enjoyed reading them? Those are the books we should read? Yeah. Great insight.

@@ImperiusRex Do you know where they were first published, and why the incredible artwork (first by Gary Leach then Alan Davis) turned to absolute shit after the first 5 or 6 issues? And why the colouring is so bad and smears the artwork? And why the first few issues are so different in pacing and style to the latter issues? No? Gee, guess you didn't do your research then.

smoog i didn’t know you had to be a historian on every single topic in order to have a conversation about it. Have you ever read anything for pleasure and then talked about what you thought of it without going online and researching everything you could possibly learn about it? No? I bet you’re a big hit at gatherings. Do people line up around the block to hear you tell them how much they don’t know about things they have passing interest in?

@@ImperiusRex ohhh..poor baby got all defensive and upset. Did you get your mommy to write that? Yes I do read for pleasure. And do you know what makes it more pleasurable? Knowing the background to what I'm reading. It adds to my understanding and appreciation. Also if I was going to produce a 15 minutes podcast on something I read, I would feel obliged to do some research. That way the 'cast would be informative and not just be 15 minutes of fanboi "this is cool! I thought it cool! Did you think it cool! Cool! Hey everyone this is cool!" I also, if I did for whatever reason (mostly laziness) decide to go the fanboi route and then had someone call me out on it by pointing out I had done no research, I would own up and admit as much. I certainly wouldn't condescend and sneer at them that because I had just spent 15 minutes talking therefore I must know what I'm talking about. And then end my sneering with a complete non-sequitur. Great insight? Uh? Further, if it was then pointed out explicitly that I knew nothing about what I had made a podcast about I most definitely wouldn't be even more condescending and, indeed, openly admit that I am a lazy, shallow superficial fanboi by saying I'm 'not a historian' (because, y'know, apparently learning is something horrid to be avoided) and that I only 'read for fun' not to improve myself. But that's just me. You're you and you're happy to wallow in the shallow end and avoid all thought and learning. A shame because, had you bothered to do any research or indeed simply admitted to being ignorant but curious you would have found just how fascinating the story behind Marvelman is. How it was perhaps the most productive era of Alan Moore's career, where he was writing V, Marvelman, DR & Quinch, Skizz, Captain Britain, The Bojefferies and, of course, the best story if his career: a certain Ms Jones. Also how the original publication explains why the art is so good, yet so muddy from the colouring, why the art quality dropped so markedly halfway through an issue, and why Alan Moore's writing style changed so abruptly at the same time. And finally how the original publication changed the British comics Industry which led directly to the launching of the careers of some people perhaps even you've heard of: Grant Morrison, John Smith, Mark Millar, Garth Ennis, Steve Dillon, Steve Bisley, Alan Davis, Glenn Fabry to name drop a few. Still, as you have pointed out, you're happy wallowing in your ignorance so I'll leave you to it. No doubt you'll reply with something condescending and sneering. TLDR probably. Such a great original comeback it will be.

smoog you really sound like you’ve got life by the balls. Keep it up friend. That being said- I think you’ve misunderstood the purpose of our show. It’s two guys sitting in a basement discussing comics over beers. That’s it. It’s not an in-depth biography about the life and times of each author we cover. There’s other channels out there that cover that. Feel free to go tell them how they’re doing it wrong as well, but don’t misconstrue our original intentions with laziness or ignorance. If friendship and small talk isn’t your thing (and I can see it most likely isn’t; I mean who has time to break up those long, berating insults with friendly discourse?) then feel free to skip on by and spend your time watching videos about things you already know. Life is short- spend it criticizing what you love.