All the Power of the 10T at Half the Storage Capacity

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Enphase Energy, known for its micro-inverter-based solar technology,, has launched the all new IQ Battery 5P in 2023. The battery has been in the making for over 3 years and is rumored to disrupt the home storage market. We take a deep dive into what we know so far and what you should expect in the near future.
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Опубликовано:

14 июн 2023

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Комментарии : 43

@JaimeTeron Год назад

Great discussion. I am a 10T battery owner, and I must say I would rather go with the 5P just for the wired architecture. The wireless batteries sound great in principle, but they have been a huge headache (as you indicated in your video, requiring multiple replacements). If I were getting batteries now I would go with the 5P (assuming similar price points).

@rs1107 11 месяцев назад

Hey Dale, Great work keeping us informed on all things solar. I support your statement of the 10T Preference. It works flawlessly with complete integrity. 👍👍

@keng5067 Год назад

I think the reviewer has substantially missed the main point behind the new higher power 5P battery, as he is puzzled why Enphase upped the power so much. This new battery is a NEM 3.0 money maker. It can discharge its entire capacity into the grid in half or less the time of the older 10T battery. This is especially important during peak demand hours when you can sell your stored electricity to the utility at premium rates. You want to sell all you can as fast as you can during these peak periods to make the most money (or bill credits) as possible. That's what this battery enables. You could potentially make hundreds (or thousands) of dollars.

@PacificSunTech Год назад

You bring up a good point but consider this. Two 5P units can output 7.6kW per hour (7.6kWh) leaving the remaining storage around 2.4kWh. Two 10T batteries can output 7.6kW per hour (7.6kWh) leaving the remaining storage around 12.4kWh. While arbitrage will pay more during a one or two hour peak time period, you want to also reduce your dependence on the grid. The two 5P units leave you little energy after discharging the battery to the grid whereas the two 10T units gave you the same credits in one or two hours and have a fair amount more energy. I get what you’re trying to point out and we’ll be doing more videos talking about arbitrage versus grid independence.

@rs1107 11 месяцев назад

Under NEM 3.0 your Install generation $s are reduced by 80%. In other words, SCE will only pay you 20 cents on the dollar for your electricity. Therefore, NO, it is not a "money maker" since you will be getting so much less. In general, the extra cost for the non-compatible 5P is not justified. The 10T works great for those of us under NEM 2.0

@gordonproudfoot2575 Год назад

Thanks Dale. I enjoy your videos. I live in Canada.

@PacificSunTech Год назад

Thanks!

@DuckySC 6 месяцев назад

the 10P will be the best of both worlds

@thomasjacques5286 11 месяцев назад

Glad we have waited. Panels this year and batteries next year, so we will look at the new Power Wall 3 and the Enphase 5P vs the PW2+ and Enphase 10T. We already add a Soft Start device to our 5-year-old 3-ton AC system. Dropping my LRA from 14 amps to about 6 so that will expand my choice of batteries. As a minimum, we'll probably go with a minimum of 13 to 15 kWh storage.

@tubie987 11 месяцев назад

Hi Dale, I truly enjoy your RU-vid videos; I find them very valuable and educational. I have a 3.12 kW solar panel system that includes 8 Canadian Solar CS3N-390MS panels, and 8 Enphase IQ8Plus-72-2-US Inverters. I am looking to add battery storage and was wondering if the Enphase 5P battery storage would be a good fit for me. I am more interested in having storage than having power. I live Morgan Hill, California and I look forward to your feedback. Also, would you recommend a company or an installer that I can work with in the Bay area? Thanks!

@hughwilson2219 Год назад

Problem solved in Oz. Only the 5P sold here. Bought one last month, yet to appear on the wall though.

@jarrelljulien5673 11 месяцев назад

Good video. I’ve been looking into the 5P because I’m more concerned about power outages. I was surprised about the pricing you mentioned. I haven’t compared it to the 10T but I have compared it to FranklinWH, which I think is a more apt comparison, and it seems to be cheaper and just as powerful. I’ve always looked at the 10T as more of a load shifting battery. Where as the 5P and the FWH seem more like batteries for power outage situations

@PacificSunTech 10 месяцев назад

I agree, the 5P is really geared toward power outage applications whereas the 10T was designed for time-of-use in California. They had a lot of people in other states needing more power during grid outages, and the 5P meets those peoples needs. I just hope they continue to manufacture the 10T because there is a case for both products.

@wishbone1138 6 месяцев назад

Hard wiring communication would be enough for me to consider it if the price point was close enough per kWh.

@bswens01 Год назад

The 5P is of more interest for me, here in Florida we have those pesky hurricanes and will with power for a week minimum. As humid as it gets here, AC is differently beneficial. We need not only the storage but also the extra surge the 5P provides. Three 5P's should be able to start a 4 to 5 ton AC unit hopefully.

@PacificSunTech Год назад

That's a valid point, and I've been told that three 5P units should start up-to a 6-ton AC unit.

@Edu-Rodriguez Год назад

Didn't mentioned 4x more surge power and scalable up to 80 kWh with PLC. This new version is not even close to the previous. It's so much better, especially in places like Florida

@PacificSunTech Год назад

I did briefly touch on surge, as well as it can do 40kWh with a generator input and 80kWh without. It's just A LOT of space, two units is ~4ft left to right, if you stack two on two then you have 20kWh in a 4x8 space. Do that 4 times and you've got a 16 foot wall of batteries. I think they're getting closer to finding the sweet spot between power and energy.

@JonLesser 10 месяцев назад

Did I understand correctly that I would be able to use s280 micro inverters with the 5p battery? That would be a nice bonus for me. I have 9 s280 and 9 IQ7 and I was going to have to either swap the s280 for IQ7 or replace everything with IQ8.

@nicksgarage2 11 месяцев назад

Will battery choices ever get simple? I keep getting close to jumping on the battery wagon but then the next "game changer" is right around the corner. My PV system is complicated as I have an older 10-panel Enphase system, now using IQ7s. Then I have a 27-panel SolarEdge system. I use the Enphase app to track my import and export, but of course it always gives an error as it can see that I'm exporting more than the 10-panel system generates. I'm not sure in a grid-down situation how a battery system would be configured to be optimal.

@nwfan2010 9 месяцев назад

I'm disappointed that we recently had installed a 26.4 kw system with 66 IQ8+ microinverters and System controller 2 that 5P battery is not downward compatible with our 2 month old system. When the process started the Controller 3 and 5P were not available. We are going to probably end up purchasing another 10T battery to meet our requirements. Will Enphase offer us a reasonable trade in process for trading in 10T and controller 2 and gateway?

@skippyskippy Год назад

Great comparison of the 10T and 5P. I'd like to hear your thoughts about the effect of 12x microinverters in the 10T with respect to inefficiency. The 10T only discharges ~82% of the power that is charged. All those BMU's combined draw a lot of power proportional to capacity. Do you have charged versus discharged ratios of the Powerwall or other brand batteries? Enphase promotes modularity with 12x microinverters in the 10T, but I don't think that the modularity is worth having 12x little vampires constantly sipping power.

@PacificSunTech Год назад

I don’t have any data on that, but I’ll see what I can figure out from reviewing sites installed using 100% of the battery consistently

@rrezaeid 11 месяцев назад

How expensive are 2 x 5P batteries as compared to 1 x 10T battery percentage wise?

@s.lionelmcauley4455 Год назад

The IRA will not pay PTC 11 cents a watt for dual microinverters. Therefore dual program shut down. The added benefit, you can sell twice as much power back to the utility during peak hours. Think about it buddy.;)

@s.lionelmcauley4455 Год назад

@@dustinmerkley7303 IRA pays 11 cents a watt PTC to manufacture microinverters in the US. There is no production tax credit for multi microinverters ie Dual and Quad. Enphase terminated the dual program. The decision was made to prepare for higher-wattage modules with a single footprint and harvest the 11-cent PTC. SiC MOSFETs for now, next-gen will be GaN Dustin, you don't what I am speaking to.

@mattbrew11 Год назад

@@dustinmerkley7303dustin you don’t know wtf u talking about

@avaughs 10 месяцев назад

Looks like the 5Ps are no longer compatible with the M250s in California (as of 4/1/2023) due to the adoption of IEEE 1547:2018 in that State. Will there be a new Enphase solution to allow the 5P to work with M250s in California after 4/1/2023 without necessitating the costly replacement of M250s by IQ7s or IQ8s?

@Jonnorrisphotography Год назад

Can you do a review for the EG4 Lifepower 4 30kwh battery!?

@PacificSunTech Год назад

We’ll look into it, thanks for the recommendation!

@mattbrew11 Год назад

Post a link

@lawrencewebb2970 Год назад

I would like a comparison between other brands This video is quite confusing to which is better. Thanks for trying.

@PacificSunTech Год назад

This video wasn’t really a comparison so much as it was a conversation about the new battery. More content coming soon

@chancejensen9324 2 месяца назад

I heard that the 10T is being discontinued. Would you know if it is? If so, would current owners of the 10T (like myself) be able to add the new generation later on?

@PacificSunTech 2 месяца назад

This is correct and I’ve been waiting to do a video on this because it’s a problem. I was hoping enphase would have released a device to make the 5P batteries backwards compatible but nothing. Really makes you reconsider investing in Enphase batteries.

@ThomMurphy Год назад

I think it seems like a miss that Enphase isn't offering a mounting solution to minimize the wall space, a "15P" kit, like they did with the 10P/T combining 3x 3P/T. A kit that made a 20P (4x 5P) would be even better IMO. Then they could have 20kWh of storage taking less wall space than 2x 10P/T. It'd also have 4x combination units to max out the capacity 80kWH, much like 4x units of the 10P/T maxed out their older system. 2x 20P would take up significantly less space than 4x 10P/T, while providing, essentially the same storage and significantly more power. I'd be very interested in a couple of 20P(s). As it is, I'm not interested in taking the space they require for 40kWh on their new system, let alone 80Kwh.

@PacificSunTech Год назад

I don't know how much value that would add because most installers are likely to stack them one on top of the either. Height has never been an issue as much as width for the 10T battery units. Two 5P batteries is just about the same width as a 10T battery, though they're about a foot taller.

@ThomMurphy Год назад

@PacificSunTech You may be thinking too small... I agree that 1, 10T versus 2, 5P isn't a big deal. 4, 10T vs 8, 5P, that's another story. 8, 5P in a row would require nearly 4 (total) feet of space between them. Sure, stacked would be about half that, but that's less likely given the height. 2 10T stacked in an 8ft garage wasn't a problem. With the 5P stacked, there's less than an inch of buffer top and bottom, or about ¼ inch to spare in all messured gaps floor to ceiling (in an 8ft garage). That may be more precise than some builds, let alone installers. Not for every install, but enough that the "value" is obviously there. Take it a step beyond now, and imagine the design of 80kWh of storage with the 5P. Now imagine it if they could be grouped in a single case for 4, as the 10T was for 3...

@davefroman4700 11 месяцев назад

There are far cheaper 5kw UL certified batteries on the market. These products are nothing but paying a premium for the eye appeal.

@JVNJ09 7 месяцев назад

You’re the guy I need to install a system for me. What do you recommend as a substitute system?

@kd4hlscarroll621 11 месяцев назад

shame P series is Not backward compatible .OR. T series is ..NOT. upgradable

@keepingup2952 Год назад

At 8:00 do you say "ekspecially"? If you do, like so many others, just practice saying "S" "special" "Lee" in succession, and you'll be cured of adding any unnecessary consonant sounds to that word.

@PacificSunTech Год назад

Thanks for the tip