All the Things Black Lives Matter Gave Us | Glenn Loury & John McWhorter | The Glenn Show 

I was 10 years old(1985) living in Detroit when my family and church had to move out the area due to repeated attacks by blacks. I seen with my own eyes a woman punched in the throat in front of her small child and people's gold chains ripped off their necks. Later it was called "white flight" when in reality it was whites running for safety. I just watched a recent video from NY at another Greek Orthodox church of a black teenager pushing a very old lady from the top of a set of stairs to rob her. The problem isn't everyone else.

The problem with the trayvon case was the fact that people chose to not educate themselves to the actual facts.

I'm so grateful to have these two men's voices in my world.

These two gentlemen should be on every major news outlet every day and should be invited to every college campus in the country to offer their reasoned takes on these issues.

Black people are dying from bullets shot from guns in other blacks hands exponentially more than anything else, but it's never covered or discussed because discussing the factors behind that would involve placing accountability and responsibility on the black communities and we can't have that now...can we?

Glenn and John. Calm and refined Voices of Reason.

I lost many friends because I refused to take the knee for BLM, because i saw through the grift. They set us all back.

The increased crime in cities under the federal microscope or that have experienced strong BLM agitation is not only due to less policing. It’s also because perpetrators feel entitled to commit crimes as payback to the unjust society they’ve been convinced surrounds them.

trayvon martin wasn't murdered. he died during the commission of a violent assault (attempting to murder zimmerman by slamming his head on concrete). sometimes people die while committing crime 🤷‍♂️

I can’t help but recall Obama giving a lecture about how Trayvon was unjustly murdered. That more than anything else solidified the mistrust towards policing in my opinion.

George Zimmerman was not and never was a cop. That’s is one of the silliest things about the controversy. This discussion could have been about vigilantism or stand your ground laws but had absolutely nothing to do with the police.

Are we almost at the point when, as Glenn did in this clip, ask white people what they think? One of the biggest roadblocks Ive experienced in these debates has been the idea that your race necessarily validates not just your opinion on the matter, but whether you are even allowed to voice said opinion without a visceral, hateful, bigoted response that preemptively stops one from expressing said opinion. This is clearly manifested when talking to university students, members of the media, and particularly leftist political ideologues.

Thank both of you gentlemen so much for the work you do!

Growing up at a certain era, in the white burbs, we had heroes like Michael Jackson, Eddie Murphy, Stevie Wonder, Aretha, on down the line and if your parents played Oscar Peterson and you gained some inkling of Motown, jazz and blues and then read Booker T Washington, Frederick Douglass, Octavia Butler and more, you understood pretty clearly there is no stereotype that covers all black people even remotely. BLM has come along and is very divided itself, with groups and statements and actions by people who don't even recognize each other. The only thing they have in common is the bogeyman.

Glenn's response was perfect.

Richard Bilkszto, a Canadian principal was victimised by a representative from Black Lives Matter, when he challenged the narrative that she was dictating. The school board that he worked for sided with the representative and he committed suicide.

The BLM organization collected huge donations. Where did it go, who did it help?

Sensible discourse. I miss this in today’s political environment.

I so much appreciate the wisdom and knowledge of Glenn Loury and John McWhorter.

Who would have guessed regressive ideologies would regress society?

These Gentlemen are awesome.

2:10 "Zimmerman got scared and fired his gun in self defense." 3:10 "In 2012, with the way the Trayvon Martin murder, that's what it was, was covered." These two statements seem to be inconsistent. I assume that John meant that Trayvon Martin's death was covered as a murder, even though it wasn't, but I'm not sure I'm interpreting him correctly.

The one variable left out of the discussion of not policing cities, is those cities die. Stores move out because of the daily theft. Allowing criminals to steal, simply shuts down stores, and the cities lose their tax base. Theft has skyrocketed, particularly in grocery stores. That theft is passed on to honest people who do pay. Poor people don’t have local stores, they will have to drive further to get groceries. But the thieves move in those stores too. Allowing $900 a day theft, is a by product of no police, some grocery stores have food locked behind glass. It is disgusting behavior by the new privileged class of thieves, who take full advantage of being allowed to steal and feel free to shot at policemen. America has turned into a corrupt third world country. That is directly tied to Defund the Police, painting them as racist’s, and having police department’s stand down to petty crime. How many policemen have been killed since George Floyd died! Police lives matter too! Who would be stupid enough to join the police force…except crooks and gangs.

I love these two

Here is some proof. Officers I know went from actively making stops 4 years ago to NO stops today.

When you mention studies like this, it would be awesome to get a citation or a link.

7:30 you might also note that the used the money they raised as a personal piggy bank: paying themselves high salaries, nepotistic hiring of relatives into high salary positions, and purchasing multiple properties. Doing all that without putting a single dollar into actually helping black communities or trying to stop the huge number of black on black homicides that kill exponentially more young black men than police shootings.

Such a good point on activist DAs. The Minneapolis/ Hennepin County prosecutor is a poster child of this.

I like to call this phenomenon 'the fallacy of the four As". There's a big difference between awareness, advocacy, and activism and ALARMISM. So many people now are absolutely alarmist about a whole host of issues

Thank you for your objectivity and integrity.

Loury for POTUS!

Trevon was not murdered. He was trying to murder someone and got shot in self defense.

Glenn's comments were agreeable to my view and well said.

John, Trayvon Martin was not murdered. Not a fan of the guy who shot him, but it was ruled self defense. He was acquitted. Important to be accurate.

Now days I judges on identity first. Safer to avoid the perpetual victim class folks. I avoid police too! Same reasons...

Very balanced answer from John. I can always count on him being grounded, level headed…I don’t always agree with him. But he sure seems real, and honest. Which is rare these days! We do not agree on the best Anna Karenina translation either. But his recommendation did encourage me to buy another translation which since has caused me to read different translations on works to pick up the subtle differences/approaches to the language and translation which has been immensely helpful for my studies.

There is NOTHING WRONG WITH THE COPS, John!!! It’s a certain demographic that is completely out of control.

1:32 Trayvon Martin was not shot by a police officer. He was shot by a private citizen. A citizen that was not convicted in a trial by jury. So how on earth was it a totemic case of police misconduct? It was a horrible waste of human life and a terrible tragedy. It might be mentioned that Zimmerman was injured in the incident and said he shot in self defense. The stand your ground statute that was much contested was not a factor in the shooter’s defense.

I wish you guys would go into even further detail on Trevon Martin and George Zimmerman. I signed the original petition and just assumed that Zimmerman was guilty and until the verdict came back. Then my find myself questioning myself as to why I would dismiss the accounts of 12 jurors who saw so much more evidence than I did. As soon as I dug into that case I realized That not only was Zimmerman acting in self-defense, but Trayvon was in the process of trying to cause him brain damage, if not outright kill him. That the media essentially knew this, but still pushed the racism. Angle is a big reason for the overall distrust in the media. I really wish you guys would take the time to go into granular detail on some of these cases.

The Martin-Zimmerman incident was two idiots getting into a fight. One of them had a gun.

Not always. I'm a white cops cousin, and applicant. A black guy when I was lost mind you in my own hometown. I told him strait up, who I am and related to. He wasn't afraid of me calling EPD, he was ok with me. He was a wonderful person. He went to EPD to make sure, I got home safe. They told him, yep she is our friend and applicant. She's a cops cousin here. We go way back. She loves people and a passion for the law. They told him, she is home safe. She stays in contact with us. He said she got victims rights. They told him, yep!

What an amazing admission. The most significant movement by Blacks in America in the 21st Century has resulted in net zero progress! Just add it to the list of other failures: growth of unwed mothers and single moms in the Black community since the 60s, the high crime rate Black on Black in their own community which too has worsened, the stats that Blacks have worse comparison to other minorities as well as immigrants financially. I want to cry for all of this. I am not Black but one of the greatest men in my lifetime was Martin Luther King Jr. As a child and later when I learned more, I was inspired and filled with hope for a better America. Up to the election and administration of Barak O I was under the illusion we had reached I higher plane of civilization in America to show the rest of the world the way to go. My personal take on the last twelve years we have stepped backward as a nation becoming more racist. Yet I still hope. The majority of people I personally know do not act and speak and live lives of racism. My blame for the situation of the last twelve years is focused on radical selftish people who agitate for change but desire only to reverse the situation. I blame politicians pandering to the plight of the poor and abused disadvantaged but rarely if ever using laws, legislation, or their power to actually make life better. In my mind government has made things worse. I blame media who loves kowtowing to the special interest of the rich to divide people by sensational racism news, and ignoring the the real facts of the real problem. Example. They focus on the minute numbers of Blacks abused by and or killed by White policeman and ignore the astronomical murder rate of Black on Black crime. Maybe instead of focusing on the abuse attention needs to be on the words, the learning, the steps, and the action of what actually works to make individual lives better for the Black minority and the rest of us as well.

John. Why do you call the Trayvon case murder? Seems pretty clear self defense

What is left out of the conversation is the responsibility of each citizen regardless of their skin color. Another uncomfortable fact underlining antisocial behavior is the lack of a father in the home.

Recently I listened to a good interview with Henry Louis Gates Jr. regarding some of these things. Most of it resonated.

I would be interested to hear the question addressed to not just the last 12 years but the entire civil rights movement and MLK. If you were talking about sacred cows, I’d be interested to hear the take on this.

"Raising awareness" is posed as neutral. Is there ever a neutral awareness of anything? Maybe if you're meditating, but usually not even then. And people watching the news aren't meditating. So HOW are you raising awareness? What is the inflection of the awareness? Are you becoming aware of reality or hyperbole? Kudos to John for eschewing the buzzword.

I’ve always appreciated John and Glenn. But how is it that John says Zimmerman shot in self defense, but then says Trayvon Martin was murdered. It can’t be both.

Glenn, what was the title of the Roland Fryer article to which you referred?

Trayvon did not “get the best of” Jorge Zimmerman; Travon attacked Jorge. Jorge had as much right as Travon to be where he was, and Jorge had no obligation to respond to being attacked by engaging in a fisticuffs.

I never fail to be impressed by how objective and thoughtful these two are. Were I in a position to effect change in the USA (I’m not American so this is highly theoretical), I would start by engaging the knowledge base and experience of people just like this. They have such a wealth of insight and understanding of the root causes of such problems that they are ideally suited to be part of the solution.

I really hate when people that have the reach to affect more people’s opinions than me say something like “…and there IS a problem with cops” when in fact there is a problem with individuals. These fellas bristle as they should when someone says “there IS a problem with the black community..” because neither of the aforementioned groups of individuals are monoliths. So to pin the actions of what would be quite a small percentage of actual individuals in reality, taking all numbers into account, is ignorant if mistaken and malevolent if claimed knowingly. Then to end the clip opining on the nuances of “what we should do about police shootings” is just ludicrous. 50 states. About 900,000 police officers. About 3 million recorded police interactions in a given year (most recent data). The year that George Floyd died there were 9 unarmed black folks and 18 unarmed white folks killed by police. You do the math…

FYI, everyone gets nervous when stopped by the cops. The last time I was stopped the policeman asked for my license so before I reached for it I explained it was in my gym bag on the floor and I made sure to let him know I had no weapons in the car. It was early in the morning and still dark, so I didn't want to be seen as reaching for a weapon in a darkened car. It was just common sense and self-preservation.

What was that study again Loury mentioned? Nevermind found it

At least all the commercials have black people in them.

I am an enemy of anything/everything/everyone woke.

Don't commit crimes and you won't have to fear the police!

Things are going to need to get much, much, much worse before people are going admit that grotesque errors were made in the wake of Trayvon Martin, George Floyd etc. Let alone change directions and make actual progress.

I am white and i have been held at gun point on my own property by a cop that had mistaken me for someone else.

“Better to rule in Hell than serve in Heaven.” - John Milton

The fact a rich party-animal slacker kid I knew in 2013 who knew very little and never gave a shit about anything suddenly found a reborn sense of social activism due to Trayvon Martin spoke to the merits of the movement, overall.

❤

George Zimmerman also was not a cop. Treyvon was not shot by a cop. what percentage of people do not know this, even 12 years later?

Anyone else notice that RU-vid censored when Glenn said “left wing democrats”, RU-vid edited out the work ‘wing’.

Your community owes me 1.2 million dollars for destroying my life for no reason at all.

I agree with much of what was said here except I don’t think there is a systematic problem with police. Police deal with people when they are at their worst, AND with the worst of the worst. Like a soldier who has fought too long in a war they can become jaded without the proper kind of counseling and support. And just like ANY OTHER profession everyone makes mistakes. Police have one of the toughest jobs in our society yet we seem so eager to pass judgement. The reality is a majority of police join because they want to serve the public good. Very few, if any, go into it so that they can be jerks. We can’t lump all police in the same category because of a few bad apples.

How do you say Trayvon Martin was murdered when you just described it as self defense?

Thank you for speaking the truth!

I feel sorry for young women and black people generally. I wouldn't hire either, because it would just be paying for trouble. If things keep going as they are this will be the majority opinion.

Great analysis. No, Trayvon Martin was not murdered. He started a fight and made it impossible for Zimmerman to get away. Justified shooting.

52 years with a bit of a lead foot. Have yet to ever have a bad interaction with a police officer. EVER! Maybe bc I don't act like a jackass.

At least I learned the word totemic.

This was all very well said. I will add I think the lockdowns agitated a lot of people and in part created some of the 2020 issues. I think both the lockdowns and these protests/riots upset many of the people that went to DC the next year. Like you Glenn many read what BLM stood for and were called bigots for saying hey I love everyone and don't care who they are, but I disagree with their manifesto therefore cannot support that. Further, they disagreed with the agitating protests that often became looting as soon as night fell if not earlier. Plus, many people of European descent with white skin (all of us are mixed more than anyone discusses btw) have personally dealt with police behaving badly but still support the police overall. Therefore, the defunding and minimalistic punishment wasn't something they could agree with.

Sadly , the people who where cheering BLM years ago, are in more worst condition now

Two good things that came out of it were visibility and accountability. Without the BLM movement, I don’t think Derek Chauvin or the other officers involved in the killing of George Floyd are charged, let alone convicted. And I don’t think Ahmad Arbery’s ambushers and killers would have been charged, let alone convicted. Georgia’s Republican Governor, Brian Kemp has denounced vigilantism and said that there is no place for it. I agree. These were steps to uphold the rights bestowed in Section 1 of the 14th Amendment of the U.S. Constitution, and to hold accountable those who violate them. Breonna Taylor’s boyfriend, who reacted how most people would if someone was forcibly entering their home in the middle of the night, having to make a split second life and death decision while possibly disoriented if aroused from sleep - would have spent his life rotting in prison if it weren’t for the attention BLM brought to the case and the charges were dropped. That caused examination of the laws, how their enforcement put people and police at risk, and changes were made to how these warrants are served. There was a lot of bad that came with BLM, but those were good things.

I won't say that we don't have a police problem, but we have a much bigger crime problem. If we can effectively address the crime problem, that would be the most effective way to shrink the police problem too. I very much agree with GL that none of this needs to be racialized. These twin problems exist throughtout American society.

Trayvon Martin MURDER? WTF?

Your acute preferences for detail are unwanted by liberals in the media, or in politics, because they potentially thwart the false narratives with which those people desire to frame such events.

In 2012 I would've been white-hot angry at the Dilbert guy for his views. I would've used all kinds of disparaging words for him. Now I have to honestly withhold judgment. I'll be surprised if I don't just flat-out agree with him after a couple of more years of this. Year 5 of the spree begins next month with no end in sight. (Btw, _love_ the outro music.)

Any other unionized labor stops doing their job when held accountable for performance would get a very different response from conservatives. There is middle ground between BLM cluelessness and Heather McDonald callousness.

I understand the important issues you have with police, however, George Zimmerman was neither a police officer nor an employee of any law enforcement agency nor associated with any law enforcement agency.

Initially, I was on board. I remember more the outrage at "all lives matter." I thought it was silly and remember hearing a perfect analogy as to why both were true, but BLM was a priority. [Paraphrasing] Your fire department is concerned with every house in your neighborhood, but the priority is the one on fire. That was why I thought BLM was important. Then the movement got hijacked by the organization and they toxified it and used it as an excuse for overt racism and, to a degree, the spread of cultural Marxism. I always thought that the real issue was The War on Drugs (TWOD). That has been the worst policy for black and brown people since Jim Crow. It has stifled the the evolution of Police and Justice, allowing racism, rebranded as TWOD, to fester where other institutions saw organic progress. TWOD has had a huge impact on the black family dynamic. Fathers in jail or dead, and mothers having to work multiple jobs and raise children alone. Millions dead, millions in jail, drugs more available than ever, and trillions of taxpayer dollars wasted.

Stevie Wonder coulda seen this shit comn

There's one giant positive, minorities of all types are voting for Trump. I don't mean this in terms of you should like Trump, but rather it's great that people everywhere are finding their own voice. I think it might be the dam breaking on to something better.

John is a smart guy but still hanging onto the victimhood schtick with a death grip 🤷🏼‍♂️🤦‍♂️

Wow, I hate to say the thought black people are in danger of the police started with Travon is so wrong. NWA created a song about this called Funk the police that was all about this. Ice T in the song colors called the LAPD the largest gang in California. These songs came out in the 1980's. I will admit that the Travon matter allowed the race hustlers were able to stoke this fire using Travon.

It would be interesting to look at the alternate universe where the Ahmaud Arbery murder happened, but they didn't have a video. I'm sure Arbery would be getting the Trayvon Martin treatment from the right.

All lives are equally valued by God. All the color stuff is for divisional purposes only. We are all the same blood.

Whata po whyte boy ta-do when 6% out doing 50% daKillin' and 90% daShootin'?

guys you still talk about this please stop already!

😅😅😅😅 get woke go broke 😅😅😅😅

By "got worse" do you mean less black men being shot dead by cops

While I agree with Glenn (almost always) and John (largely this time) one thing Glenn said, relative to a LOT more white people dying from police bullets than Black folks, is not quite true. I will post a full explanation on Substack.

Were you there? Did 3:49 you witness this?

😅😅😅 Maga 😅😅😅😅

Blah blah blah blah blah... I appreciate your even tones and civil back and forth. But in the final analysis the entire conversation amounts to nothing. One could liken the conversation to jazz hands.

That was a tough question. On balance, I agree. I don't see any positives having emerged, in any practical or philosophical sense. Where things are heading is much harder to tell. I think young black men are the wild card. They're unpredictable. I think if they can absorb the right influences, their natural courage is capable of raising them out of the mind traps so many are currently caught in. I see some strong voices rising among young black women too. I just don't think there are enough yet. But critical mass may be gathering. I think things like this are very much subject to the whims of fate, to random historical chance and the ability of certain people to sieze hold of those moments and use them as a pivot point to turn the culture on. I can say that BLM caused a heck of a lot of damage to my view of Americans in general, white and black. It was...disappointing. Black and white fell for it in about ten seconds, without question. People who were already set against that kind of thing stayed as obstinate as ever, but the way people just leapt into it with both feet, like they wanted it, like they had been primed and were just waiting to be taken in, that was upsetting.

Glenn Your sole goal is to speak poorly about black people. Seriously, what else have you accomplished that is worthwhile? Aside from race concerns, your work is not cited. Your efforts as an economist are ineffective so you default to race.

The only racists these guys have ever met was when looking into the mirror

Police refusing to do their job because of negativity surrounding the BLM movement is the fault of the police. The BLM movement is problematic for many reasons, that is not one of them. To excuse police who are PAID to protect and serve because they feel disrespected or unappreciated is a bootlicker's mentality. If you don't like the job, quit. Don't take a paycheck, benefits, and a pension and then sit on your ass.