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All Triangles are Equilateral - Numberphile 

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A proof that all triangles are equilateral - can you see a problem with it? Featuring Carlo Séquin.
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4 ноя 2014

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Комментарии : 3,6 тыс.   
@Nimblewright1992
@Nimblewright1992 9 лет назад
I have an elegant solution, unfortunately this RU-vid comment box is too narrow to contain it.
@MertcanEkiz
@MertcanEkiz 9 лет назад
Nimble's Last Theorem
@Atrohumter
@Atrohumter 9 лет назад
Don't worry, in a few thousand years mathematicians will work their asses off to find out... xD
@mac1991seth
@mac1991seth 9 лет назад
You two, sirs, just made my day.
@annalisetrite7281
@annalisetrite7281 9 лет назад
I like you
@ZipplyZane
@ZipplyZane 9 лет назад
Didn't you hear? They lifted the character limit. You can write as much as you want!
@calvinscheuerman
@calvinscheuerman 7 лет назад
I love troll math like this. it reminds me of the pi = 4 thing that was going around the internet a few years ago. it's just fun. wrong, but fun.
@forlorneater6595
@forlorneater6595 3 года назад
I call it monkey math
@mgsquared5204
@mgsquared5204 3 года назад
@@doronyaniv9205 you start with a square with side length 1 and bring the corners in so they touch a circle with diameter 1. Then you take the new corners generated and bring those in to touch the circle. You do this forever. What you get is a shape that looks exactly like a circle. However, at no point in any of the steps did the perimeter change. It is always 4. This means the circumference of a circle in relation to its diameter is 4. The thing here is you never *actually* get a circle by bringing the corners in to touch a circle. It’s just something that looks like a circle. With infinite “zooming” you’d still see the jagged corners or something like that.
@d4slaimless
@d4slaimless 3 года назад
@@mgsquared5204 Yeah, it looks fun.
@neilfairbairn440
@neilfairbairn440 3 года назад
Can't pi be 4 if it is a square and it approaches 3.14 as the sides approach infinity?
@roquegabrielroque
@roquegabrielroque 7 лет назад
In fact, all the following propositions are corrects: XB = XC XB* = XC* BB* = CC* XBB* = XCC* AXB* = AXC* AB* = AC* I did it again in a drawing software and I realized that if the line C of the triangle is larger than B, then the point C* is located between the points C and A, and not after the point C, like illustrated. Therefore, in this case the following equations will be: AB* - BB* = AB AC* + CC* = AC Because that, the conclusion "AB=AC" is wrong. The most that we can affirm is: AC = AB + BB* * I'm brazilian and sorry by the poor english.
@pokegan32155
@pokegan32155 7 лет назад
That was fantastic. Greetings from Brazil.
@Gee800220
@Gee800220 7 лет назад
Actually AXB* = AXC* is NOT true and it is VERY easy to prove by simply going trough the rules of mirroring an object. If it would be true, than when mirroring AXB* the mirror of B should be C. That concludes from BB* = CC*. But if C is the mirror of B than the lines BC and AX should have a right angle between them, since AX is the line used for the mirroring. And a simple glance of the drawing proves that it is NOT the case.
@roquegabrielroque
@roquegabrielroque 7 лет назад
Gee The drawing representation is wrong, so in THIS representation AXB* is not equal to AXC*. But if you follow the instructions given by the video you will get the scenario described by me. And, in that case, AXB* = AXC* is TRUE.
@raphaeldayan
@raphaeldayan 7 лет назад
não entendi não irmão explica ae pros BR
@roquegabrielroque
@roquegabrielroque 7 лет назад
raphael dayan pra galera que fala português então... De fato, as seguintes expressões estão corretas: XB = XC XB* = XC* BB* = CC* XBB* = XCC* AXB* = AXC* AB* = AC* Eu refiz o exercício em um software 2D de desenho e percebi que: se a linha C do triângulo for maior que a B, então o ponto C* estará localizado entre os pontos C e A, e não depois do ponto C, como foi ilustrado no vídeo. Sendo assim, as expressões corretas seriam: AB* - BB* = AB AC* + CC* = AC Por causa disso, a conclusão: "AB=AC" está errada. O máximo que podemos afirmar é: AC = AB + BB*
@EP1CStar
@EP1CStar 8 лет назад
I FIGURED OUT WHERE YOU WENT WRONG!! ..it's not equilateral
@Jivvi
@Jivvi 8 лет назад
Yep, that's exactly it. 😉
@hps362
@hps362 8 лет назад
This comment has just made my day.
@Jivvi
@Jivvi 8 лет назад
***** pretty sure it's in the second step. x²+1²/x² isn't (x+1/x)²
@valeriobertoncello1809
@valeriobertoncello1809 8 лет назад
+Jivan Scarano Wow you guys are overthinking.. it's just that XBB* is NOT congruent to XCC* (they are indeed in his drawing, that is wrong on purpouse: if you look closely at 3:02 the angle that's supposed to be right inside XCC* is really NOT right)
@plasmacrab_7473
@plasmacrab_7473 8 лет назад
4x4x6 Fishercube?
@sethmorse3139
@sethmorse3139 8 лет назад
this is learning... an educated man asking amateurs to solve something... I'd love to have my high school classes structured like this
@AlexeyKatyshev
@AlexeyKatyshev 9 лет назад
All the congruency is fine since triangles with right angles. Actual mistake starts at 4.05 when it says that AB* - BB* = AB AND AC* - CC* = AC because one of C* and B* is inside and the other one is outside. It can be obviously proven since ABXC is on one circle (X is the middle of the arc BC), so ABX+ACX = 180, hence one of them is bigger that 90 when other is less(they equal only if AB=AC), hence perpendiculars XC* and XB* can't both be inside or both outside,
@igbu
@igbu 9 лет назад
"since ABXC is on one circle", pls to elaborate? :)
@AlexeyKatyshev
@AlexeyKatyshev 9 лет назад
Igor Bućo since both perpendicular at M and bisector from A cross arc BC(of the circumcircle ABC) right in the middle.
@igbu
@igbu 9 лет назад
Alexey Katyshev Both what perpendicular at M? Sorry, not following yet. Yes, ABC are on the circumscribed circle of ABC triangle, with its center somewhere on the XM. And yes, a circle that contains BXC clearly has X dividing BC arc in half, but I don't see the obvious proof that this circle is *the* circumcircle of ABC.
@AlexeyKatyshev
@AlexeyKatyshev 9 лет назад
Igor Bućo If you take the only one possible circle around ABC, then bisector from A cross arc BC in the middle AND perpendicular line at M also cross arc BC in the middle => they cross this circle at the same point => this point is X.
@igbu
@igbu 9 лет назад
I believe I get what that holds. If |BX| = |XC|, then if angles BAX and XAC are equal, A must lie on the BXC circle.
@fetchboy123
@fetchboy123 9 лет назад
The problem here is that the example he used here had generalized angles. I tried recreating the problem using a protractor to draw an exact 30-60-90 triangle. I bisected the 90 degree angle and created the same diagram shown above, however, I found that (corresponding) lines on my diagram, XB* and XC*, did not fall on the outside of the triangle! In fact, line XB* fell onto line AB inside the triangle and line XC* fell on line AC outside the triangle! Using the same geometric rules used in the video, I found that line AB (which included the point B*) was equal to the line AC* (which included the point C). Once this happens, we cannot simply subtract the CC* and BB* from both sides, because that would take away part of a side of the triangle ABC! Therefore, this is FALSE!!! :)
@PC_Simo
@PC_Simo Год назад
Great going 👍🏻!
@Drachenbauer
@Drachenbauer Год назад
I reproduced it too by using Inkscape (with two different starting triangles), because i can use exact snapping mechanics there to make it accurate. and i got the same thing as Shreyas: Only one of the lines, that create the points B* and C* leads outside the starting triangle like shown, the other one leads into the inside of the starting-triangle (the one, that points to the longer edge of the starting-triangle). In the video it looks like the intersection of the angle bisector and the line, that starts at point M is located too far to the bottom (he made it look like an equilateral triengle appearing there, but mine are more flattened). It looks like one or both of these two center-lines are not constructed accurate enough. I noticed, while dawing these two centerlines, he sayd things like "this is about here" so it really seems like he just eyeballed it instead of measuring. And it looks like the computer-drawn version just tried to reproduce, how his handdrawn construction looks, instead of doing theese steps geometrical accurate. I noticed one more thing: If you compare the top angle of the starting triangle with the angle between the two lines of each bottom-construction-line-pair, 90° is exactly in the middle between theese two angles. And in the case, that the top angle is 90°, theese bottom angles are 90° too.
@probablythismfbutonsteroid6625
Troll level: MATEMATICIAN
@shurjoaunibar
@shurjoaunibar 3 года назад
Mathematician*
@Triantalex
@Triantalex 9 месяцев назад
??
@raichakrabarti8085
@raichakrabarti8085 8 лет назад
Both the points B* and C* cannot lie outside the triangle. The statement AB*=AC* is true, and BB*=CC is true, but for doing AC*-CC* and AB*-BB*, you need to have both the points outside the triangle, which has not been followed here.
@raichakrabarti8085
@raichakrabarti8085 8 лет назад
Also, the triangle that has been drawn here is almost isosceles, in which case it can be, bit had the process been followed for a triangle that is most definitely scalene, the lines would not have intersected outside the triangle.
@SpiderWaffle
@SpiderWaffle 8 лет назад
+Rai Chakrabarti (Itrabarkach Iar) Yep, if you just check with a straight edge segment it's easy to eyeball that BM is longer than BC, (line bisector is false) and I suspect the angle bisector has BAX smaller than XAC. This is to help create the illusion that the intersection, X, MUCH further away from BC than it really is, and thus make it easy to draw the two AX projections outside of AB and AC.
@dragonsandwich
@dragonsandwich 8 лет назад
+Rai Chakrabarti (Itrabarkach Iar) I think you're correct. Here's a proof of why B* and C* cannot both lie outside the triangle. As shown in the video, BXB* and CXC* are congruent. That means the angle(CXC*) and angle(BXB*) are equal. We then look at the shape AB*XC*, which has two 90 degree angles. Therefore the angle(B*XC*) = 180-angle(BAC). Now, since angle(CXC*) = angle(BXB*), angle(BXC) = angle(B*XC*). We now turn our attention to the shape ABXC: angle(ABX) + angle(ACX) + angle(BXC) + angle(BAC) = 360. angle(BXC) + angle(BAC) = 180, so angle(ABX) + angle(ACX) = 180. This means that either both angle(ABX) and angle(ACX) are 90 degrees or one of them is less than 90 degrees. If one of them is less than 90 degrees, then either C* or B* is inside the triangle, thus invalidating the proof. This proof works for the case where angle(ABX) = angle(ACX) = 90.
@1cor731
@1cor731 8 лет назад
+Rai Chakrabarti (Itrabarkach Iar) Ah, that's it. The example in the video is badly drawn; X should be about 25% closer to A, so that C* would be inside the line segment AC. Both the pairs of triangles are congruent; if we call the lengths d and e, then AB*=AC*=d and BB*=CC*=e. But while the long side AC = d+e, the shorter side AB is d-e. It's a very clever puzzle.
@vishal240993
@vishal240993 8 лет назад
+Rai Chakrabarti (Itrabarkach Iar) yup thats correct, thats why one should start with not so equilateral triangle looking thing :)
@NoriMori1992
@NoriMori1992 9 лет назад
I was with him up until 3:21. That's when I started going "No no no no NO NO NO NO NO!"
@donach9
@donach9 8 лет назад
The flaw is long before that
@zoklev
@zoklev 3 года назад
@@donach9 I think he started going "No no no no NO NO NO NO NO!" cuz he realized that the proof would lead to the 2 sides being congruent
@mathsx5887
@mathsx5887 3 года назад
Mistake is 3:31
@tonaxysam
@tonaxysam 2 года назад
@@mathsx5887 wat, why? XB* = XC* AX = AX And they have one angle in common: alpha So they must be congruent
@hainsay
@hainsay 2 года назад
@@tonaxysam Yes but they are drawn at the wrong place. If BB* goes away from A, then CC* goes towards A, and vice versa.
@JackLe1127
@JackLe1127 6 лет назад
If you drew this out carefully it'll be really easy to see that if AB is shorter than AC then the point C* will be in between A and C. This means that AB + BB* = AC - CC* and not +. Tricksy
@CytosineTV
@CytosineTV 6 лет назад
Drawing out the shape doesn't help with proving him wrong. You will always make a mistake with your drawing. The shape that Carlo drew follows every axiom in geometry. It is near-impossible to draw or create something that is perfect for this. So looking at a drawing at measuring it doesn't help with your cause.
@JackLe1127
@JackLe1127 6 лет назад
but he assumed things from his drawing as well
@eduardogomes4865
@eduardogomes4865 6 лет назад
No, the thing he drew did not follow every axiom of geometry, because the assumption that the B* and C* would both lie outside the triangle is wrong.
@xenathcytrin202
@xenathcytrin202 6 лет назад
I thought that line AX looked suspiciously not like it bisected angle A... Also angle C* is clearly not a right angle. Tricksy hobbitses.
@alejorabirog1679
@alejorabirog1679 6 лет назад
You are totally right, I just did the drawing with ruler and compass.
@NeoJinn
@NeoJinn 7 лет назад
i love this guy's accent
@trimethoxy4637
@trimethoxy4637 3 года назад
what is it?
@BrotherAlpha
@BrotherAlpha 9 лет назад
"A proof that all triangles are equilateral - can you see a problem with it?" AB* only equals AC* if point M is on the line AX.
@Kabitu1
@Kabitu1 9 лет назад
Well, you´re basically right, but within the proof it is shown that AXB* and AC*X are congruent. So where is the flaw in the arguments?
@densi77
@densi77 9 лет назад
i think axb* and ac*x are not congruent. they are only congruent if we assume AB = AC...
@AissurDrol
@AissurDrol 9 лет назад
Yup.
@TheLankyNo1
@TheLankyNo1 9 лет назад
Kabitu1 Essentially at 3:31 the triangles aren't the same.
@ElwynMoir
@ElwynMoir 9 лет назад
Agreed. It's an instance of the begging the question fallacy. (That the proof only works if M lies on AX is the same as saying the proof only works if the original triangle is equilateral).
@FrankieSmileShow
@FrankieSmileShow 9 лет назад
I think the small lie that makes this work is at 3:28. Saying those two triangles are mirror images presumes AB and AC to be equal, which is more or less the thing we are trying to prove here. Its a statement that sneakily begs the question, putting a whole lot of construction lines on there that are equal and hoping you forget the more important parts...
@DrRemiehneppo
@DrRemiehneppo 9 лет назад
well the triangles are in fact indeed mirror image of each other but the problem lies in the diagram (that we are made to assume right) and the final calculus, all the rest is true
@chuckshunk
@chuckshunk 9 лет назад
DrRemiehneppo In fact, the triangles are not mirror images of each other, but rotations of each other. I believe there is a technical difference.
@chuckshunk
@chuckshunk 9 лет назад
DrRemiehneppo Since the triangles are not in fact mirror images of each other but rotations, then the assertion that AB* = AC* is also wrong. In fact, AB* = C*X
@Hamenopi
@Hamenopi 9 лет назад
He's creating a close mirror that is equilateral.
@forbidd3nzz
@forbidd3nzz 9 лет назад
You can use the RHS, right hypotenuse side property, to prove that AB*X is congruent to AC*X. AX is a common side. AB*X = AC*X =90° B*X = C*X Therefore, AB*X is congruent to AC*X.
@Jotakumon
@Jotakumon 8 лет назад
I'll write A° and B° because Google comments use the asterisk to format text into bold text. The mistake is that the picture shows B and C as always being _one the inside_, i.e. the nearest points to A compared to B° and C°. However that's not the case. If B is nearer to A than B°, then C° will be nearer to A than C. Paint a picture in _GeoGebra_ if you want to verify it, but it's what will happen. So everything is correct until the last part, where we don't have AB° = AB + BB° or we don't have AC° = AC + CC°. Which way it is depends on whether AB>AC, or AC>AB (if we knew a priori which one is bigger). To prove this we have to show that if AB>AB° AC AB°. We prove it by contradiction. We assume that AC > AC°. And what we will get (as the video has shown above) is that then AB = AC, which is a contradiction. Since AC != AC° anyway, we have that AC < AC° *Case 2:* AB < AB°. We do the same thing. So we have that *AB > AB° => AC < AC°* and that *AB < AB° => AC > AC°* which is equivalent to the reciprocal of *AB > AB° => AC < AC°*, therefore *AB > AB° AC < AC°*. *PS:* Does someone know how to write asterisks in Google comments without screwing up the text formatting?
@Jamie-st6of
@Jamie-st6of 8 лет назад
I feel that before he started his explanation, he should have shouted "LEEEEEEROOOOOOOOOY NJEEEEEENKINS!!!!
@ruashua
@ruashua 9 лет назад
You cannot infer that AXB* ~= AXC*. Sure, B* and C* are 90deg, BB* = CC*, and XB* = XC*, but all we know is (AB* & AC*) > (BB* & CC*). Also, the A angle bisector intercepts MX once. We know MX is an angle bisector of B*XC* because BM = CM and BX =CX. Angle AXC* does not necessarily equal AXB*. AX ix not necessarily an angle bisector of B*XC* because of its one, not infinite, intersection with MX.
@pfeifenheini
@pfeifenheini 9 лет назад
Yes you can. AXB* and AXC* share AX, furthermore XB* = XC* and thy have both a 90° angle on the opposide of the longer side, they are congruent.
@ruashua
@ruashua 9 лет назад
Oh crap, you are right, idk why I didn't see that. Well, my second point still stands.....though I do not think that is the correction they are looking for.
@Rumble-Tusk
@Rumble-Tusk 9 лет назад
Treufuß False. Angles AXB and AXC aren't equal so you can't claim that just because the side lengths are the same that the triangles are congruent. Just because two triangles share two side lengths doesn't mean the triangles are congruent. If AX passed through point M then this would be a legit line of reasoning but otherwise, nope. No way, Jose.
@ZombiePestControlInc
@ZombiePestControlInc 9 лет назад
Joe Leeney By definition XAB and XAC are equal (angle bisector)
@aithne99
@aithne99 9 лет назад
Joe Leeney They are right triangles, so if they share ANY two sides, and they are both legs or one is a leg and the other is a hypothenuse, the unknown side is also the same. Check with the Pythagorean theorem. Generally, if two sides and the angle opposing the LONGER side are the same, the two triangles are congruent. Geez, this is taught in elementary school.
@TurtleW0
@TurtleW0 9 лет назад
The diagram is misleading. In a correct construction, C* would actually be inside AC, so the assumption that |AC| = |AC*| - |CC*| is wrong, and |AC| = |AC*| + |CC*|
@ThichMauXanh
@ThichMauXanh 2 года назад
I work on automated reasoning in highschool Geometry software, so I know very well where this reasoning chain breaks down. This "paradox" pinpoints exactly what is hidden "under the rug" in Geometry education in highschool: In highschool, we are given an illusion of "rigorous" geometry proof because we are following all the axioms (congruences, angle chasing, etc). But little did we know, these axioms depend on very specific topological facts that does not get proven, but only assumed "experimentally" through inspecting the diagram. So if the diagram is incorrect, the topological assumptions are wrong, and then the axiom applications will result in incorrect facts like so. What topological fact is wrongly assumed in this diagram? It is the fact that both B* and C* are outside of the triangle. In short, what you thought of Geometry in highschool is not rigorous at all, we are doing it semi-formally by mixing axiom applications and experimentally inspecting the diagram (physically interacting with the geometry embedded in the physical universe). To fix this, we have to have axioms that deal with topological statements and make them very explicit when applying the more traditional axioms.
@lezhilo772
@lezhilo772 2 года назад
That sounds fascinating! How do you apply these topological axioms in this context? Do you have to check how many points the open sets include whenever you carry out any adding/subtracting of lengths and angles?
@johnandrews9803
@johnandrews9803 9 лет назад
The problem is the positioning of either C* or the B*. If AC was longer than AB, then C* would be within the line AC, so it would be AC*C as apposed to ACC*, and vise verse if AB was longer. He's just very cleverly drawn the diagram very close to an isosceles triangle, so it doesn't look too bad even though it's wrong. If you try and do this with sides that are all very different, you'll see what I mean.
@OmegaCraftable
@OmegaCraftable 9 лет назад
I think the problem lies on assuming that the point X always exists, because if the angle bisector and the perpendicular bisector never meet it can't work surely.
@saber1epee0
@saber1epee0 9 лет назад
That's a very interesting idea, and fun to play around with. First of all, if you sketch a bunch of scenarios (or with a bit of trig) you can actually prove that X will always exist at least at one point, but that's not a fun answer. The best answer is related to what you point out, because if you draw any real isosceles triangle, it will have an INFINITE amount of X's, because by definition the line AX will overlap Perfectly with line MX!
@OmegaCraftable
@OmegaCraftable 9 лет назад
Fencer Dave I understand X will always exist in some form, but I thought maybe it had to appear on the other side of the line BC.
@aithne99
@aithne99 9 лет назад
OmegaCraftable Yes, the "bogus step" is the position of X. Draw it :D
@Wout12345
@Wout12345 9 лет назад
Well, they can't be parallel though (don't have a formal proof, but can be visualized easily). They can be equal, but if they are, AB = AC and the theorem applies as well. The only problem with X could possible be when X lies on the other side of M, which may be possible and may mess up the further equations. My main issue IMO is though that B* and C* don't always lie outside of the triangle (in fact, I think I saw someone above proving that there's always precisely one inside and outside), which means the equations around 4:00 don't work anymore.
@aithne99
@aithne99 9 лет назад
Fencer Dave Exactly what Wout said. This is not an idea, it's a fact that you ADD BB* to AB but SUBSTRACT CC* from AC. Or the other way around, depending on how you label things.
@Supremebubble
@Supremebubble 9 лет назад
3:36 - Why are the two triangles congruent? Mirror image? It doesn't even look like a mirror image and of course isn't always a mirror image. So we can't say that these two triangles are congruent. If you want to say that it is a mirror image give the axis. But if it is a mirror image (what can happen if AX and MX lie on each other) then the triangle is equilateral. What have I won?
@DrRemiehneppo
@DrRemiehneppo 9 лет назад
nothing, the triangles are in fact congruent, don't let yourself be wronged by the diagram
@Supremebubble
@Supremebubble 9 лет назад
DrRemiehneppo I may have been mistaken by the diagram (I wasn't it was just a test for you^^) but the diagram itself is the mistake. Because if B lies between A and B* then C can't lie between A and C*.
@hoodiesticks
@hoodiesticks 9 лет назад
But they are mirror images. AX is the axis. Alternatively, you could prove their congruency by the same rules he used with the blue triangle. Both triangles have AX for a side, they both have a right angle, and B*X = C*X. If two triangles share two side lengths and a non-inscribed angle, they are congruent.
@bugodi327
@bugodi327 9 лет назад
if you passed 9th grade geometry you know they are congruent
@Supremebubble
@Supremebubble 9 лет назад
chuckshunk ***** ***** I have already mentioned that my main comment isn't right and I have already given the real solution so thanks for your comments^^ Bugod i I am still in school (A-levels) but always had mark 1. So yeah, I know they are congruent.^^
@RedsBoneStuff
@RedsBoneStuff 8 лет назад
I drew the whole thing in Geogebra to get an accurate image and found out that no matter how I move the original triangle's corners around, the following is the case: Either the point B* lies on |AB| or the point C* lies on |AC|. Unlike in your sketch, they _never both lie outside the original triangle_ (it works in your sketch because you've drawn all angles a little off from what they should be :P). Since you asked us to find the incorrection in your calculations rather than in your picture, here you go: The bottom equation at 4:17 should be AC* + CC* = AC.
@maciejkubera1536
@maciejkubera1536 8 лет назад
I found the same. Maybe inacurate drawing is the issue. Look at red construction at 4:58. You can easly notice, that angle bisector is drawn very inacurate AND that triangles BB*X and CC*X doesn't look congruent.
@RedsBoneStuff
@RedsBoneStuff 8 лет назад
Maciej Kubera Of course they had to cheat a little with the drawing to make this work ;) Our task was to find the mistake in the *calculations*, and I found it.
@nuthying3156
@nuthying3156 8 лет назад
+RedsBoneStuff You, sir need to rethink this.
@RedsBoneStuff
@RedsBoneStuff 8 лет назад
Austin Rominger Please be more specific.
@Azouzazu
@Azouzazu 8 лет назад
+RedsBoneStuff CLAIM: At least one of the perpendiculars XB* or XC*, from the intersection point X of the perpendicular bisector of BC and the angle bisector of A of a non-isosceles triangle, to the other sides crosses one side inside |AB| or |AC| respectively. PROOF: Let the triangle ABC such that AB < AC < BC. Let both XB* and XC* cross AB and AC outside |AB| and |AC| respectively. Then ABC is equilateral (proof shown on the video). Then AB = AC = BC. [Contadiction!]
@Christopher-yn3sk
@Christopher-yn3sk 8 лет назад
I see it this way. You can always draw 2 lines of equal length, that go through some point and two points on some third line, so lines XC and XB can be equal but that doesn't mean that points C and B are at the same distance from A, you can draw another line that goes through X and some point on either of the lines that goes through the AB or AC, that is equal to the XC or XB and at the same distance form the A as either one of them. That said, if you would chose that right line, the rest of the math is correct , but you would work with negative numbers, because the intercession point of the correct line would lie on one of the triangle sides AB or AC, so AB doesn't have to be equal to AC
@randylai2515
@randylai2515 9 лет назад
As many have pointed out, the figure is misleading, C* should be in between A and C. In fact, it can be shown that ABXC is a cyclic quadrilateral, so ABX + ACX = 180. Hence, if ABX is not 90, they will be different, one will be larger than 90 and the other will be less than 90. Resulting either B* in between AB or C* in between AC.
@rjmari
@rjmari 9 лет назад
C* does NOT have to be between A and C. C* is defined as the point on this line that is perpendicular to point X which lies on the angle bisector. Sure, if you super-exaggerate, then C* CAN be between A and C, but it doesn't have to be, as evidenced in the diagram from the video. And no, the diagram in the video is not drawn inaccurately.
@randylai2515
@randylai2515 9 лет назад
I was referring to the specific triangle shown in the video. If you draw in scale, C* will be in between A and C.
@rjmari
@rjmari 9 лет назад
Randy Lai There is no "scale" to draw in, as no values are assigned to the lengths of the lines. The only thing that can be corrected is the location of C*, which is a little off. Even if it was moved to the correct position to form a right angle, it would still definitely by outside of AC.
@randylai2515
@randylai2515 9 лет назад
rjmari True. In general, there no "scale". My first sentence was to point out that the figure is misleading. And the explanations followed was made under general setup.
@rjmari
@rjmari 9 лет назад
Randy Lai Actually, I just checked and you are correct. Scale doesn't matter in this case.
@aer9998
@aer9998 9 лет назад
I'm sure someone has worked this out already but there are a few comments denying RHS for congruence and saying that X can't exist so here goes: Given that AC is greater than AB, the point C actually lies further from A than C*. In the above diagram he starts with an almost equilateral triangle and then distorts some angles to make AC shorter than AC*. The proof cannot follow with AC longer than AC*.
@jyxtheberzerking4824
@jyxtheberzerking4824 7 лет назад
I got it: triangle AB*X can't be congruent to triangle AC*X because it doesn't reflect across bisector M properly. MATH!!!
@LedeEleven
@LedeEleven 8 лет назад
The only flaw is assuming a-b-b* and a-c-c*. Everything else is done correctly, but that means that either AB*-BB*=/=AB or AC*-CC*=/=AC, which destroys the proof.
@zardzewialy
@zardzewialy 9 лет назад
Ok, so if M is not ON the Angle Bisector of ∠BAC, that means that ∠AXB is not equal to ∠AXC, so if these two are NOT equal, than these two triangles CAN NOT have the same lenght of |AB*| and |AC*|, as |AX| remains the same for both triangles ABX and ACX, and both |C*X| and |B*X| are equal, than all angles have to sum up to 180 degrees, and it can not happen with ∠AXB different from ∠AXC.
@Valis52
@Valis52 9 лет назад
Except they are right triangles and we can use Pythagorean to figure the third length?
@satyreyes
@satyreyes 9 лет назад
Doesn't work, I'm afraid. Ordinarily, you're right, but in this instance the triangles are right triangles. We have that their hypotenuses are congruent, and that one of their legs are congruent; the remaining side follows by the Pythagorean Theorem, and then the triangles are congruent by SSS. Fair ball. Try something else. ;)
@headshats
@headshats 9 лет назад
Was just going to say that, Side Angle Side is able to prove congruence, but he used Angle Side Side which is not.
@ACIoannina
@ACIoannina 9 лет назад
B* and C* are right angles, so we DO know the length of the third arm with the pythagorean theorem
@JensDoll
@JensDoll 9 лет назад
satyreyes Almost ;-) Given the length of two legs and given an angle, there are infact two triangles which can be drawn: The triangle itself and the mirror triangle! AXA* and CXC* are the same triangles, but actually have a different orientation.
@Neterskian
@Neterskian 9 лет назад
Your sketch is imprecise, thus driving us towards assuming that the points are in this order: A - B - B* A - C - C* while actually it's: A - B - B* A - C* - C (or A - B* - B A - C - C*). Assuming that gives us: AB* - BB* = AB AC* - CC* = AC which is incorrect. From the actual point order we get: AB* - BB* = AB AC - CC* = AC* (or AB - BB* = AB* AC* - CC* = AC). Varying sketches due to different arbitrary triangles (their angles, to be specific), whether X exists or not are also different cases we probably should consider, but this is probably what you were going for.
@hongkim3662
@hongkim3662 9 лет назад
To go a step further, could you prove that this configuration is wrong? If you try by multiple examples you will see that this diagram is wrong, but saying why what you said has to be true is a harder challenge. I used a proof by contradiction.
@Neterskian
@Neterskian 9 лет назад
Hong Kim You sound like my geometry teacher. I guess you would consider the different types of triangles (by angles); obtuse, acute, right, and then prove that for every case. Contradiction sounds shorter, though.
@hongkim3662
@hongkim3662 9 лет назад
Neterskian I actually was a geometry teacher at one point of my life haha :P If you go by the presenter and say the green triangles are indeed congruent, then that will imply that the angles B*XA and C*XA are congruent. But you can disprove this using other properties of the diagram. Hence the contradiction.
@Crazy_Diamond_75
@Crazy_Diamond_75 9 лет назад
Angle AXB* is not equal to Angle AXC*, so his second congruency--where he says Tri AXB* and Tri AXC* are mirror images--doesn't work. (He also never explains why he assumed they were congruent.) Instead, Angle MXB* is equal to Angle MXC*, since Tri BMX ~= Tri CMX (SSS) and Ang BXB* ~= CXC* (angles in congruent right triangles). If Seg MX coincided with Seg AX then Tri ABC would be isoceles (AB ~= AC). After that, he would have to show that M2Y/M3Z and BY/CZ coincide on another side to prove it equilateral.
@jonathandean9498
@jonathandean9498 9 лет назад
I totally agree that is the correct answer
@GaganDeepSingh0123
@GaganDeepSingh0123 9 лет назад
Correct answer :)
@cristinapopisca5199
@cristinapopisca5199 9 лет назад
the angles AXB*=AXC* because: 1. any tri has a total angle sum. of 180.2. If BAX= CAX= a => B*AX=C*AX. 3. XB*A=XC*A= 90. If 1, 2, 3 true=> AXC* = 180- a - 90 and AXB* = 180 - a - 90=> AXC*=AXB*
@EagleMercer69
@EagleMercer69 9 лет назад
Cristina Popisca equal angles does not prove congruency though, it only proves similarity, they're not the same thing
@Crazy_Diamond_75
@Crazy_Diamond_75 9 лет назад
Cristina Popisca You're right, my mistake. It's Ang AXB not being equal to Ang AXC that is the issue. The main problem I was trying to point out I guess is that while Segment AX bisects Ang BAC, it does not bisect Ang BXC, but now I'm trying to figure out where the problem really is lol.
@CurtisSmale
@CurtisSmale 8 лет назад
I see a lot of over complicated methods of point out the error so I'll pitch in: 1) The perpendicular bisector at M will extend out to point X which is where the bisector angle at A also reaches. This is ok so far. 2) Any angle drawn from the bisector AX to B* or C* must have a common angle and any angle drawn form bisector MX to B or C must have a common angle. 3) Since these lines AX and MX are NOT parallel we know that angle AXB* - MXB != AXC* - MXC. This is because AXB* = AXC* and MXB = MXC but they do not have the same central point. That is to say that *either* part of AXB* overlaps part of MXC or part of AXC* overlaps part of MXB. So in other words, AXB* (union) MXC is greater than or less than AXC* (union) MXB but only equal in the case where AB = AC. 4) The result is that the longer of AB or AC will be the side in which B* or C* is a shortening of that line and the shorter of AB or AC will be an extension. That is to say, that if AB > AC then AB* < AB and AC* > AC. This video depicts both AB* > AB and AC* > AC which is NOT the reality for any triangle that is not isosceles on the side being examined. In the case of a triangle where at least two sides are the same, proving that is impossible since MX will be a subset of AX and thus have infinite points of intersection.
@isithardtobevegan53
@isithardtobevegan53 8 лет назад
+Curtis Smale you made it too complicated.
@SamFisk
@SamFisk 7 лет назад
+Duane that only holds if AB and AC are equal length. (Ffs replying isn't working properly..)
@duaneediger2234
@duaneediger2234 7 лет назад
Oh, yes, I see. I shouldn't have deleted my corrected comment (I claimed in error that M by definition is on the angle A bisector) , but I did. Thanks, Sam.
@stopthephilosophicalzombie9017
I like your proof the best. That was what jumped out at me also.
@andrewberthelsen2817
@andrewberthelsen2817 7 лет назад
IsItHardToBeVegan? No, Curtis has outlined perfectly the only correct explanation.
@adamlatosinski5475
@adamlatosinski5475 9 лет назад
The picture suggests that both B* and C* points will be outside of the triangle. Only then equations written in 4:02 will be correct. The truth is that always one of those points is outside, and the other one is inside (on one of the edges).
@uberarius
@uberarius 9 лет назад
Yes, inacurate drawing is the problem. Right answer is AB=AB*-BB* and AC=AC*+CC*.
@dliessmgg
@dliessmgg 9 лет назад
The graph they drew is a trick! XBB* is congruent to XCC*. AXB* is congruent to AXC*. However, in their graph the triangle XCC* has the wrong orientation. The point C* should be closer to A than C. So, their equation AC*-CC*=AC is wrong. The correct equation would be AC*+C*C=AC. They were able to manipulate the graph that way because they chose a small difference between AB and AC. When you draw it for yourself with a big difference between AB and AC it should be obvious.
@necrolord1920
@necrolord1920 8 лет назад
One thing I noticed when messing around with the problem is angle ABX + angle ACX = 180 degrees (or pi radians). I wanted to find a way to mathematically prove that statement because that would have also served as proof that AC* cannot be greater than AC at the same time as AB* is greater than AB. I didn't have much time to spend on it though, so I wasn't able to come up with a proof. I might check on it again later.
@griffonthomas7869
@griffonthomas7869 9 лет назад
This spoof proof can actually be seen through multiple ways, I see as I am reading through the comments. I saw the flaw in this problem when I realized that in a true equilateral triangle, AX and MX should be on top of each other.
@VRietyGamer
@VRietyGamer 9 лет назад
AB needs to be equal to AC in order for BB* to be equal with CC*. We know this isn't the case otherwise M would fall on the angle bisector of A. Carlo is assuming the triangle is isosceles in order to prove that the triangle is isosceles. Circular reasoning detected.
@simplesmilerwastaken
@simplesmilerwastaken 9 лет назад
Yes it is because it lies on the bisector of BC.
@somewony
@somewony 9 лет назад
It is though. X is on the right line starting in M. This line is the collection of all points equidistant from B and C. Therefore XB = XC.
@satyreyes
@satyreyes 9 лет назад
That can't be it. X is certainly equidistant from B and C, because X lies on the perpendicular bisector of BC. All points on the perpendicular bisector of a segment are equidistant from the segment's endpoints.
@satyreyes
@satyreyes 9 лет назад
GamerB312 That doesn't follow at all. The line AX has nothing to do with whether XB = XC; you can prove that XB = XC using nothing but the given that MX is the perpendicular bisector of BC.
@ilv1
@ilv1 9 лет назад
GamerB312 Dude... if you draw a line straight up in the MIDDLE of a horizontal line... All points on that line are the same distance to the edges because it's like you have the bisector of an isosceles triangle which is the same as the median line and other lines. XB = XC... If you say otherwise you'd better go back to 1st grade geometry.
@TheCouchpotat0
@TheCouchpotat0 9 лет назад
Jeez, did anyone actually pay attention in their trigonometry class? You can't declare XBB* and ACC* congruent based on the data we have - the two sides are similar, yes, but it's the angle BETWEEN those similar sides that matters in the proof of congruency, not just any arbitrary angle. (there's a reason why the corresponding rule of congruence is called Side, Angle, Side, not Side, Side, Angle) Picture it like this: imagine that X is a nail that pins two sticks XB and XB* to the wall, and at the end of XB* there's another stick fixed at right angle. With this setup, you can rotate XB* with the protraction at the side and get an infinite number of DIFFERENT triangles that all share those same characteristics. As we can see, this is no basis to proclaim that two triangles are similar. Case dismissed. In the future just try googling basic trigonometry before arguing about the drawings
@scoldingMime
@scoldingMime 9 лет назад
Yeah. He claimed that the two were congruent because of Side-Side-Angle, which is not one of the five triangle congruence proofs. I'm glad somebody picked up on that one.
@Skyhmia
@Skyhmia 9 лет назад
In this case it uses RHS (Right-Hypotenuse-Side). This works because Pythagoras' Theorem can be used to find the remaining side and then it is a case of SAS :)
@pfeifenheini
@pfeifenheini 9 лет назад
Well. It seems you only learned three of the four Statements. The fourth one says: If two sides have equal length, and the angles at the opposite of the longer side are the same, the triangles are congruent. In this case its even more special. Because of the 90° angle you can use Pythagoras to calculate the third side. Then you can use the Side-Side-Side version.
@stormsurge1
@stormsurge1 9 лет назад
Think about it dude if you know all the angles (if you know 2 you know the last one) and you have one side you can draw only one triangle and you can even calculate the sides
@deadalnix
@deadalnix 9 лет назад
Dude, you just proved pythagoras wrong. You may want to apply for a Fields medal.
@BintonGaming
@BintonGaming 8 лет назад
I know where you went wrong. You were assuming that because the line AX was the angle bisector of Angle A, that triangle AXB* is congruent to AXC*, which is a faulty conclusion. In order for this to be true, Angle AXB* would have to be congruent to Angle AXC*, which would mean that line AX would bisect angle B*XC*, which it does not because line MX bisects that angle by definition of Perpendicular bisector. If a perpendicular bisector of a triangle (in this instance, triangle BXC) hits the opposite point on a triangle, that means it is the angle bisector of that opposite point.
@siblinganon66
@siblinganon66 8 лет назад
the trick is that the angle at a is nearly a right angle. the two triangles axb* and axc* aren't in fact congruent but are close.
@VincentEngler
@VincentEngler 9 лет назад
At 4:06, the video states that AB* - BB* = AB and AC* - CC* = AC... But is this true? What if AB > AB* and AC < AC*? The drawing may be throwing us off here... so lets try with some numbers... Lets Say that AB = 4, AC = 7 and BC = 10. That means that BM = CM = 5 According to the cosine rule, a² = b² + c² - 2bc cosA, we know that 10² = 7² + 4² - 2(7*4) cosA cosA = -5/8 A = 128.7° and 4² = 7² + 10² - 2(7*10) cosC cosC = 19/20 C = 18.19° so B = 180°-(128.7°+18.19°) B = 33.11° Lets call the intersection of AX and BC point Q We can solve for the lengths of BN and CN => BQ = 3.6366 CQ = 6.36405 Since BM = CM = 5, we know that M must be between C and Q and we know that QM must be CQ - CM so QM = 1.36405 We also can calculate angle AQC = 97.4597° This means that angle XQC must be 82.5403° therefore, MX = 10.4179 AND QX = 10.5068 We can also get AQ length as 2.20387 => AX length is 12.71067 Next we want to get the lengths of BX and CX. We know that BXM and CXM are right triangles with the MX leg measuring 10.4179 and the BM/CM legs measuring 5, so that means that BX and CX must be 11.5556... This means that the We further know that AB*X and AC*X are right triangles where the hypotenuse is 12.71067 and the XAB*/XAC* angles are 64.35°, so we can use some trigonometry to find that AC* = 12.71067 * cos64.35° = 5.50210... AB* = 12.71067 * cos64.35° = 5.50210... XC* = 12.71067 * sin64.35° = 11.46 XB* = 12.71067 * sin64.35° = 11.46 This lets us find that CC* = sqrt(CX² - XC*²) = sqrt(11.5556² - 11.46²) = 1.48334... BB* = sqrt(BX² - XB*²) = sqrt(11.5556² - 11.46²) = 1.48334... So that would mean that AB* - BB* should equal AB and AC*-CC* should equal AC... right? 5.50210 - 1.48334 ~ 4 So then why would AC = 7 when AC*-CC* is about 4? The answer is that AC* is shorter than AC! So the drawing makes it look like C* should fall farther from A than C, but the reality is that C* does not need to fall farther from A than C, it just needs to be at the nearest point between X and the AC leg of the BAC angle. In the case that AC < AC* and AB < AB*, we would expect our triangle to be isosceles, and in the case that AC > AC* and AB > AB* we would also expect our triangle to be isosceles. And in the case that one of these two conditions is met, and we can also do a similar construct on the B or C vertex where the distance from the vertex to the * point is either greater or less than the other two angles in both cases, then we would expect to find that the triangle is equilateral. But if they are not either both greater or both less, then the proof falls apart on the assumption that AB* - BB* = AB and AC* - CC* = AC
@mond256
@mond256 9 лет назад
this may be true however the chance that AC=CC* or AB=BB* is literally 1/infinity. we are working with any number existing on the number line, whole numbers only take up close to 0% because the number line is riddled with transcendental numbers and the difference between the two closest numbers are 10^-infinity. the chance that two randomly generated numbers are the EXACTLY same is literally impossible
@1234567power1
@1234567power1 9 лет назад
there's also a simpler way. do what the video does with a 3,4,5 right triangle and you'll find that line xb*/xc* (depending on which leg is 4) crosses line bc and is thus perpendicular to line ac inside the triangle which this video doesn't account for thus debunking its claim that it proves all triangles are equidistant
@JeekayTenn
@JeekayTenn 9 лет назад
All Triangles are Equilateral - Numberphile AB*X =/= AC*X This is because Line AX is not in the exact center of the triangle.
@DrRemiehneppo
@DrRemiehneppo 9 лет назад
they are in fact congruent, all the initial proofs are right, only the final calculus is wrong
@fractalground
@fractalground 9 лет назад
This is correct. The green triangles are not congruent. This step is skimmed over and we are told that they are congruent however listening to what he says you can see there is no proof to this assumption. Furthermore, you can see that they are not congruent. Taking the intersection of line AX with line BC as point D, you can see that the two large triangles are split into three triangles each: ABD, BDX and BB*X on the left and ACD, CDX and CC*X on the right. BB*X and CC*X are equal, however you can see that CDX is larger than BDX. CMX is equal to BMX, but the line DX is slightly too far left. The same goes for ABD and ACD.
@elliottmcollins
@elliottmcollins 9 лет назад
DrRemiehneppo What do you mean "final calculus"? If you see something he's done wrong, feel free to point it out.
@forbidd3nzz
@forbidd3nzz 9 лет назад
What do you mean by AX is not the middle point? First of all, AX is not a point. Secondly, AX is the angle bisector of BAC. So, XAB is equal to XAC.
@utl94
@utl94 9 лет назад
forbidd3nzz In order for AB=AC, the line AX must go through point M, which it doesn't.
@kyleburt1581
@kyleburt1581 6 лет назад
I’m pretty sure it’s because for a triangle to be equilateral the angles have to be the same but they aren’t the same if your angle bisector and perpendicular bisector don’t line up completely. If the intersect outside the triangle then they not all of the angles are correct and the triangle cannot possibly be equilateral
@fahrenheit2101
@fahrenheit2101 3 года назад
He wasnt asking that. He was asking you to find the flaw in his proof.
@ToastyOs
@ToastyOs 9 лет назад
The error is in the statements at 4:03. To make the statements AB*-BB*=AB and AC*-CC*=AC is to assume that both AB* and AC* are respectively longer than AB and AC, which is not necessarily the case. In fact, unless AB and AC are equal, one of AB* or AC* must be shorter than it's respective AB or AC. The drawing's roughness misleads you into thinking that both B* and C* are outside the original triangle.
@thulyblu5486
@thulyblu5486 9 лет назад
I have drawn a (less equal) triangle and everything is correct as presented up to the final calculus conclusion (at 3:55 ). It is stated that AB* - BB* = AB . That is not really the case. My point B* is between A and B (the line AB* is shorter than AB). So the " = AB " part is not always true, I'm not sure why it's wrong in the video, though. But still as suggested, AB* - BB* = AC* - CC* but those arent equal to AB and AC. Thoughts?
@kwinvdv
@kwinvdv 9 лет назад
I came to the same conclusion, however I used the free program GeoGebra which allows you to do draw these kinds of figures but to drag points afterwards, while maintaining the same constrains, such as perpendicular lines, midpoint and angle bisector. I think the trick they used in the video is to use a triangle which is close to an isosceles triangle, such that there will be a very sharp angle between the two intersecting lines, which yields point X. In this case it would be possible that playing with the angles of the bisector and the perpendicular line a little bit will be hard to notice, but will yield a big displacement of point X, which in turns allows you to place C* on the other side of C.
@aithne99
@aithne99 9 лет назад
Kwin van der Veen People who know what they're talking about! Finally.
@mnkyman66332
@mnkyman66332 9 лет назад
This is exactly it. You can prove that for any triangle ABC with AB > AC, the point B* will lie between A and B.
@thulyblu5486
@thulyblu5486 9 лет назад
OK, cool ^^ ... but BB* and CC* look rather far from the triangle. Is this due to 'generous' margins of error?
@cgtoche
@cgtoche 9 лет назад
Yes it is so, but the proof is not so easy... Just did it... and it's hard... At least the one I found...
@BrouwerEK
@BrouwerEK 9 лет назад
With a carefull picture (use compass and ruler) you can easily find out where is the hoax. SPOILER! The bug is in positioning of B* and C*. If the triangle isn't an isosceles triangle (AB AC), exactly one of those points lies between vertices of a triangle ABC. If the triangle is isosceles, B=B* and C=C*. If for instance C* is between A and C, then AC*=AC-CC*, so we don't add, but substract sides. Hence we don't get and paradox etc.
@sheepersheepsheep
@sheepersheepsheep 8 лет назад
The problem here starts at 3:28 where Carlo says that AXB* is a 'mirror image' of AXC*. However, they are not congruent, because it does not follow the SAS rule. side B*X=C*X (given), side AX = AX (common), but angle B*XA does not equal C*XA. We know this because since MX is the angle bisector of angle BXC, angle BXM must be equal to angle CXM. Therefore, angle B*XM is equal to C*XM (angle BXB* is equal to angle CXC* because of matching angles of congruent triangles). Since B*XM is not the same angle as BXM, and C*XM is not the same angle as CXM, then B*XM cannot be equal to C*XM. Now, since those two angles are not equal, the two green triangles are not congruent or 'mirror images', meaning that AB* is not equal to AC*, and therefore AB is not equal to AC.
@tynoArcher
@tynoArcher 9 лет назад
Numberphile There's a miss conception there, being AC*=AB* does not mean AB=AC nor does it mean BB*=CC*, it just means that sum AB+BB*=AC+AC*, AB can be different from AC (aswell as BB* be different rom CC*) and the sum can still be the same.So this hipotesis is wrong, you cant say that all triangles have the same length size, you can say however that from any triangle you are able to make an equilateral triangle.
@ACIoannina
@ACIoannina 9 лет назад
The error is at 2:00 : "Then I know that XB* is equal to XC*" . We do NOT know that! How do we know that? All we know is that XB=XC and that it's a right triangle but we know nothing about how XB* compares to XC*
@swingardium706
@swingardium706 9 лет назад
The lines XB and XC are equal because of their relationship to the midpoint of BC, but AC* and AB* are also equal; the triangles are AXB* and AXC*, AX=AX, XB=XC therefore XB*=XC*.
@DouglaumMG
@DouglaumMG 9 лет назад
SbAsAlSe HONRe Why are AC* and AB* equal? They are not.
@simplesmilerwastaken
@simplesmilerwastaken 9 лет назад
Nope, that is not correct. Every point on angle bisector is equidistant from both sides of an angle.
@DouglaumMG
@DouglaumMG 9 лет назад
Denis Karabaza Not to ALL points.
@swingardium706
@swingardium706 9 лет назад
DouglaumMG Yeah, I wasn't very clear earlier; if we know that sides XB and XC are equal by definition, and we know that angles B* and C* are equal by definition, AND we know that angles alpha are equal by definition, we know that the third set of sides/ angles must also be equal :)
@Schindlabua
@Schindlabua 9 лет назад
Everything is fine until 2:45. If you know the length of two sides of a triangle, you need to know the enclosing angle to determine the length of the third side, any other angle won't do. In other words, we cannot say that BB* = CC*, since in the general case BXB* =/= CXC*.
@satyreyes
@satyreyes 9 лет назад
Unless one of the other angles is a right angle, in which case the Pythagorean theorem shows that the third sides are also congruent -- and that's exactly what's happening here. The explanation in the video is bogus, but the conclusion that BB* = CC* appears to be correct given what has come before.
@BrodoSwaggins13102
@BrodoSwaggins13102 9 лет назад
I agree with Schindlabua. Ha I even learned in my 9th grade geometry class that you need two angles and a side to identify a triangle... You cannot have two sides and an angle.. that is not enough information to determine all aspects of the triangle.. So at 2:45 is when he messed up and said we know that acute angles are the same.. because they are not.
@Schindlabua
@Schindlabua 9 лет назад
No, satyreyes is right.
@cecai1a
@cecai1a 7 лет назад
The mistake comes from the approximation of the drawing which puts both B* and C* outside the ABC triangle. They are actually always one inside (closer to A) and one outside the triangle with CC*=BB*=|(AB-AC)/2|.
@yaptro
@yaptro 9 лет назад
3:50 -- here is the prpblem. AXB* and AXC* ARE congruent, but though either C or B lies outside AC* or AB* correspondingly, we can't conclude that either AB*-BB*=AB or AC*-CC*=AC. So the main idea is that of of the perpendiculars from x falls inside the triangle. It can be easily prooved just buy drawing approptiate triangle (as an counterexample). In general it's harder to proove it but also possible.
@MrUMitra
@MrUMitra 9 лет назад
Well for one thing I know, Congruency for side-angle-side is when the angle is include between the two sides... in the video its just showed us the one angle is 90deg, whereas we need to show that angCXC* = angBXB*
@mannaggiacristo
@mannaggiacristo 9 лет назад
Phytagorean theorem
@LittlePeng9
@LittlePeng9 9 лет назад
Right angles can have congruence rules a bit relaxed.
@IhaveWoodforSheep
@IhaveWoodforSheep 9 лет назад
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Congruence_%28geometry%29#Congruence_of_triangles They use RHS, a special case of SSA where it actually does hold true.
@fouried96
@fouried96 9 лет назад
You're forgetting the congruency rule called RHS
@Rohishimoto
@Rohishimoto 9 лет назад
IhaveWoodforSheep I call it HL
@turnipy88
@turnipy88 9 лет назад
Problem is at 2:00 XB* =/= XC* just because they're on the angle bisector. It's easy enough to see with a differently drawn triangle... For example, look at the point where AX and BC intersect: If they were equal, that would mean that the two triangles of triangle ABC have equal heights, which is obviously not true unless B=C. And if you did this for all the sides, it wouldn't be true for them unless A=B and A=C, and if they did, then obviously it's congruent. As some other people pointed out, it only works the way he says it does if AX=MX, which it doesn't.
@michaelgeiss741
@michaelgeiss741 7 лет назад
Thanks for the fun trick question! The poorly drawn diagram shows both AB*>AB and AC*>AC, which is not possible. Instead, if AB*>AB then AC*
@Edgawliet
@Edgawliet 3 года назад
Geometry is the art of correct reasoning on incorrect figures -George Polya
@AlanKey86
@AlanKey86 9 лет назад
*Suspicious Things* Pause at 4:45. That "right angle" in the top left looks mighty obtuse to me! It's clever how the initial "arbitrary triangle" was chosen. The fact it's so close to being isoceles conceals the trickery - just like that illusion where 4 coloured pieces of a "right angled triangle" are shuffled about to open up a mysterious, empty square. It works because the imperfection is imperceivable.
@YoshiFawful64
@YoshiFawful64 9 лет назад
The problem is that AC*X is not actually a mirror image of AB*X. That would only be true if AX bisected the angle B*XC* (and BXC too, of course). Since MX already bisects it, and it's obviously a different line than AX, AC*X and AB*X can't be congruent.
@albusdumbledore8723
@albusdumbledore8723 9 лет назад
Nah dude. The two are right triangles, and they share a hypotenuse. They also have two equivalent short legs, so according to the Pythagorean theorem the other legs must be congruent as well
@BosonCollider
@BosonCollider 9 лет назад
Albus Dumbledore Yep. The congruence arguments are 100% correct.
@stevieinselby
@stevieinselby 9 лет назад
Albus Dumbledore They are congruent, but they are not mirror images - one is a rotation of the other. The side lengths are equal, as shown in the video, but the order is different, and this is what screws up the proof.
@SSuperC
@SSuperC 7 лет назад
When you bisect an angle in a triangle, that bisecting line will also bisect the opposite side of the triangle, that is, it will cross the opposite side on its middle point (though not perpendicularly). Therefore, point X and point M are always colocated, and from there everything else falls apart.
@SSuperC
@SSuperC 7 лет назад
This is easy to see if you imagine the triangle as half a parallelogram.
@hanslee475
@hanslee475 7 лет назад
The problem with this is that when you draw the shortest line between X and AB (AC), B' (C') may be between A and B (A and C). Then the equations in the end are invalid.
@ChongFrisbee
@ChongFrisbee 9 лет назад
You should do a find the bogus step in the astounding -1/12 video. That would be awesome!
@talktothehand1212
@talktothehand1212 9 лет назад
Well if that bogus step is defining zeta (-1) as the sum of all integers than there's the step as that definition is only valid such that the real part of s is greater than 1. Other than that it's completely valid as zeta(-1) does indeed equal -1/12
@numberphile
@numberphile 9 лет назад
Fábio Reale bit.ly/TonyResponse
@NNOTM
@NNOTM 9 лет назад
Numberphile Link doesn't work, at least for me
@BaryLevi
@BaryLevi 9 лет назад
Fábio Reale please learn analytic continuation before claiming to have ripped a high-level mathematics theory
@talktothehand1212
@talktothehand1212 9 лет назад
Gregery Barton that proof surely didn't work like that nor do the other means at arriving at -1/12
@Twentydragon
@Twentydragon 9 лет назад
In drawing this out myself, I noticed that in my examples C* or B* was within AC or AB, respectively. The fact that you can't have negative values for lines (such as CC* or BB*) should raise a red flag. Additionally, if the angle at A is large enough, this happens with both B* and C* at once. I know this is a problem with the proof, but I can't figure out _why_.
@hongkim3662
@hongkim3662 9 лет назад
Proof of contradiction. Assume the diagram is correct. You will run into a problem when stating that angles B*XA and angles C*XA are congruent.
@halfmaster1
@halfmaster1 8 лет назад
The problem with this (that I found by drawing a few times out on paper) is that either C* or B* will be inside AC or AB. (Say it is C* so I don't need to write everything twice). This means that AC≠AC*-CC* but actually AC=AC*+CC*, while AB=AB*-BB*. If it where the other way around just switch all the Bs and the Cs. It appears that CC*=BB*=AC-AB, making it look as if it works out.
@qwertyuiopazsd4253
@qwertyuiopazsd4253 8 лет назад
Trick question. There is no mistake in the proof, all triangles are equilateral.
@imspidermannomore
@imspidermannomore 9 лет назад
triangles BB*X and CC*X are not congruent. assumption thet they are is false. (you need two pairs of equal sides and the same angle between them to have congruent triangles, any other angle won't do)
@DrRemiehneppo
@DrRemiehneppo 9 лет назад
this is actually true cause you got two side equals 2 by 2 and a right angle
@tim_meister
@tim_meister 9 лет назад
imspidermannomore I think this is it
@imspidermannomore
@imspidermannomore 9 лет назад
***** you're totally right! there's no base to assume that XB*=XC*. i was wrong (i pointed out that triangles are not congruent, but i wasn't correct about the reason why they're not so)
@newsoupvialt
@newsoupvialt 9 лет назад
XB* and XC* are the same. X is on the angle bisector (the middle between the two big lines) and B* and C* are the shortest distances from X to the two lines. The two big lines are mirror images of each other at the angle bisector. All this means B* and C* are mirror images at the angle bisector. The reason they're not congruent is because if XB* and XC* are the same and B* and C* are mirror images at the angle bisector, B and C would also have to be mirrored the same way for B*B and C*C to be the same.
@forbidd3nzz
@forbidd3nzz 9 лет назад
By using RHS property, you'll be able to prove that BB*X is congruent to CC*X B*X = C*X AC*X = AB*X = 90° BX = CX
@Deathranger999
@Deathranger999 9 лет назад
I see the flaw. At 3:30, you don't know that angB*XA = angC*XA, thus the two triangles are not necessarily congruent.
@briankuhns9769
@briankuhns9769 9 лет назад
That step is fine, he is using angles AC*X and AB*X. The problem is that the perpendicular bisector and the angular bisector would intersect above the triangle, not below it as in his diagram. If you try to reconstruct it with the intersection above the triangle it all falls apart.
@ankitagarwal7896
@ankitagarwal7896 9 лет назад
Brian Kuhns Kieran Kaempen So like it turns out that one of the lines, either XC* or XB* has to intersect Line AB or AC resepectively, before XC or XB, respectively, so in that case, the entire simulation falls apart.
@briankuhns9769
@briankuhns9769 9 лет назад
Yes I think that is what I was trying to say, I wish I could insert a google drawing into this to show you what I mean.
@ankitagarwal7896
@ankitagarwal7896 9 лет назад
Same, I used Cabri in order to illustrate this
@karlmuster263
@karlmuster263 9 лет назад
They are congruent. They have 2 sides equal and they are right, so the Pythagorean Theorem gives you the same length for the third side.
@pouale
@pouale 8 лет назад
The fallacy is at 3:30 , AXC* is in no way a mirror image of AXB* (because AB!=AC, therefore AB*!=AC*)
@Bratjuuc
@Bratjuuc 9 лет назад
Every time I tried to draw it I noticed that AC always bigger than AC* , if AC>AB. Same goes for AB if AC
@mavcsquared
@mavcsquared 7 лет назад
Bratjuuc but you still haven't shown why this happens
@Nuriyasov
@Nuriyasov 9 лет назад
OK I've tried this in a CAD program, and I can tell that the picture they've drawn is misleading. The perpendicular to AC from point X will be to the left of C, not to the right. Because of that, the "proof" fails at assuming congruence between AB*X and AC*X. Because angle AC*X is not right (if you were to draw properly)
@ikasu00
@ikasu00 9 лет назад
Holy crow. Now I don't need a ruler.
@andreshenao2358
@andreshenao2358 8 лет назад
Great video. I just want to know what software or app do you use to make your video. Thanks
@pianojorge
@pianojorge 8 лет назад
The drawing makes you believe that AB*-BB*=AB and AC*-CC*=AC. But in fact, if you draw with precision, you will notice that the correct thing is AB*-BB*=AB and AC-CC*=AC*. That changes all posterior conclusions. Nice trick!
@hakimal-hakim8890
@hakimal-hakim8890 8 лет назад
AB = AB* - BB* but AC = AC* + CC* NOT (AC = AC* - CC*) The drawing is misleading......
@martinservold
@martinservold 8 лет назад
You're right, it took me about 30 minutes in AutoCAD to figure it out, but you are completely right.
@TheAnonymmynona
@TheAnonymmynona 9 лет назад
i think the problem is that A X B* is not equal (Congruent) to A X C*
@TheAnonymmynona
@TheAnonymmynona 9 лет назад
I tryed recreating this in Geogebra and realised that B* and C* are never bouth in or outside the triangle (somties at B and C) but normaly one is inside and one is out side the drawing they made is inacruate
@AJMansfield1
@AJMansfield1 8 лет назад
The error is in assuming that both B* and C* are exterior to the triangle, when in fact exactly one of them will be inside the triangle - the diagram is not drawn correctly. if we let B be the interior point, then the true relation of the side lengths is AB = AB* + BB* and AC = AC* - CC*.
@jameshansen2668
@jameshansen2668 8 лет назад
1:16 is the mistake. M is the locus from B and C, but A's angular bisector would have to pass through M for the sides to be equal. Using this information we can deduce that AB does not equal AC
@Tsuyara
@Tsuyara 8 лет назад
+james hansen The point is to find where the proof makes a wrong step, rather than disproving it being an equilateral triangle.
@mohammadazad8350
@mohammadazad8350 2 года назад
@@Tsuyara Also, nobody assumed X≠M
@SKO_PL
@SKO_PL 7 лет назад
i tried it myself and C* came out to be nearer A than C so...
@ReidarWasenius
@ReidarWasenius 8 лет назад
The fooling step is at 3'25". There is no reason to assume that the points C* and B* are at equal distance from A.
@isithardtobevegan53
@isithardtobevegan53 8 лет назад
+Reidar Wasenius They are at equal distance from A but the CC* is not equal to BB*. That is the thing.
@TechDude351
@TechDude351 8 лет назад
he's saying that the angle bisector splits one side from the other equally, even the the midpoint M is the direct middle of B and C.
@Qwertinator212
@Qwertinator212 8 лет назад
This
@SuperDewies
@SuperDewies 8 лет назад
Na its congruent due to RHS u have B*X=C*X the right angle and AX=AX
@SuperDewies
@SuperDewies 8 лет назад
Na its congruent due to RHS u have B*X=C*X the right angle and AX=AX
@boofcario
@boofcario 8 лет назад
When I tried this in geogebra, XCC* was flipped so the right angle was nearer the the triangle. Angles were as follows: A = 78.08, B = 63.57, and C = 38.35 for anyone who wants to try.
@Adityarm.08
@Adityarm.08 8 лет назад
Finally realized it and it's quite simple, the first thing to notice is that if this proof is wrong, then it must be hiding the error as some illegal construction as everything else after the construction is perfectly true axioms. Now the point is that you can never create the drawing shown in the video if you follow exact construction. C* will lie between A and C iff. AC>AB. Hence, even though CC* and BB* turn out to be equal, AC = AC* + C*C,while AB = AB* - B*B.
@BintonGaming
@BintonGaming 9 лет назад
Upon first glance, this seems legit. I've rewatched this several times listening very closely to everything, and I realized something: If a triangle is equilateral, meaning it has all equal sides, that implies that same triangle also has equal ANGLES. This means that the angle bisector of angle A for the triangle you drew must also be the perpendicular bisector for line BC. That is clearly not the case in your example. But all other things check out, so I'm confused.
@NoriMori1992
@NoriMori1992 9 лет назад
BintonGaming 3:21. Those triangles are not congruent, so anything derived from the assumption that they are is invalid.
@Athakaspen
@Athakaspen 8 лет назад
+NoriMori Actually, Those Are Congruent. The Green 3:30 Ones Aren't, Though.
@NoriMori1992
@NoriMori1992 8 лет назад
+davidthewalker I was referring to the green ones in the first place. I linked to 3:21 for context.
@Athakaspen
@Athakaspen 8 лет назад
+NoriMori oh, ok I get it now
@mdk2able
@mdk2able 8 лет назад
+BintonGaming your right, if the triangle was an equilateral the angle bisector would constantly be intersecting with the midpoint of BC, and thats how he proved it by deliberately screwing up the drawing and making them intersect
@hgjfkd12345
@hgjfkd12345 8 лет назад
It's AXB* and AXC*, right? They are definitely not congruent.
@Keepedia99
@Keepedia99 8 лет назад
iluvpopcorn23 They are. RHS congruence: angleAB*X=angleAC*X=90deg Hypotenuse AX common Side B*X=C*X
@Keepedia99
@Keepedia99 8 лет назад
iluvpopcorn23 They are. RHS congruence: angleAB*X=angleAC*X=90deg Hypotenuse AX common Side B*X=C*X
@tarseeli8619
@tarseeli8619 8 лет назад
iluvpopcorn23 If the line MX could be extended to AX, then they would be congruent. However, that is not the case. Therefore, you are correct that AXB* and AXC* are not congruent. Also, the fact that BX = CX does not prove that BXB* and CXC* are congruent. There is more than one way to get the same length for the hypotenuse. Thus, the problem with the presentation was that it was based on the assumption that the two smaller sides of a right triangle must be the same if the hypotenuse is the same. That is not the case.
@jarrenbenin7553
@jarrenbenin7553 8 лет назад
yeah, AB+BB* must be equal for AC+CC* for this to work. well simplified, AB must equal AC since BB* and CC* are congruent. either way, For the two triangles to be equal, AX should be able to overlap MX. Otherwise, the quadrilateral cannot be bisected equally
@nuthying3156
@nuthying3156 8 лет назад
+ㅤㅤ no
@apdsouza
@apdsouza 6 лет назад
If you did this on an equilateral triangle the diagram would hold true, but if either side is longer than the other the diagram will be different, like, if [side AC > side AB], CC* will partially be a part of the line AC. Hence, AC + CC* > AC* (as they have parts that will overlap).
@mr.d8747
@mr.d8747 2 года назад
*Triangles AB*X and AC*X aren't congruent (normally), because we **_only_** know that the hypotenuse (which is the side shared by the two triangles) and the shorter leg are the same, but only the angle opposite to the shorter and not the longer leg is equal. If the two triangles were congruent, they would form a rectangle which is clearly not happening normally.*
@skakdosmer
@skakdosmer 8 лет назад
I love this video! Because although it's easy to see that the drawing is deliberately a little distorted, so that for example the angle at C* is obviously not 90°, it is very difficult to find any flaws in the logical arguments.
@lucascisneros8147
@lucascisneros8147 6 лет назад
Lau Bjerno YES! Finally someone got it right
@vrcristian
@vrcristian 2 года назад
the small triangles are NOT congruent. quite obvious flaw
@dkamm65
@dkamm65 9 лет назад
AXB* and AXC* are not congruent. The halfway point between B* and C* is on MX, not AX.
@W4VE855
@W4VE855 9 лет назад
Right! Finally someone who's not stupid. :D
@nathancoulombe6313
@nathancoulombe6313 9 лет назад
This is correct. QED.
@MrRayne911
@MrRayne911 9 лет назад
But AX is an angle bisector and both AC*X and AB*X are 90 degrees. with AX being on both triangles doesnt it mean they are congruent? "ASA"...
@dkamm65
@dkamm65 9 лет назад
The Heretic AB and AC are not of equal length, nor are BB* and CC*. Imagine keeping M locked to the 90 degree angle and allowing B and C to move freely, while having every other point act as a hinge. Sliding C towards A and B way from A until CC* and BB* are of equal length would make M fall on AX, and then AC*X and AB*X would be congruent.
@jaytwocari461
@jaytwocari461 9 лет назад
At 3:36 triangle AXB* is not congruent to AXC* because even if lengths B*X, XC* are equal, angles AB*X and AC*X are equal and angles XAB* and XAC* are equal, there is a difference between angles AXB* and AXC* which is not easy to see at first time because of the weak gap between the bisection and the bisector. That little difference implies that AB is different to AC owing to the non congruence of triangle AXB* and AXC*.
@nicolasdelahoz5417
@nicolasdelahoz5417 8 лет назад
Point B* , point M and point C* are collinear, hence or B* is inside the triangle or C* is inside the triangle ( Simpson Line)
@hongkim3662
@hongkim3662 9 лет назад
So... I guess all triangles are equilateral :D at least based on his diagram of course. I find no error in his proof (again based on the diagram). If you think SSA doesn't work, go look up HL theorem because we're dealing with right triangles. But the fault lies in the diagram itself. He drew the diagram not to scale on purpose. The angle bisector is really not an angle bisector. It's more evident in the red diagram towards the end of the video. In reality, the angle bisector and the perpendicular bisector would intersect much closer to the original triangle. Due to this, one of the * points will switch orders with the non-* point (either B and B* switch spots... or C and C* switch spots) Then the whole proof falls apart.
@efhiii
@efhiii 9 лет назад
B*X and C*X aren't congruent, he says that the two lines are the special lines but that was referring two just two points on the line. see 2:00 0:45 3:25 and 4:58 for the main messed up spots. 4:58 shows the other version of it on a different side, you can see that the equivalent of B*X and C*X obviously aren't congruent.
@hongkim3662
@hongkim3662 9 лет назад
Edward Haas ignoring the rest of the diagram; B*X and C*X are congruent if AX is the angle bisector of angle ABC.
@efhiii
@efhiii 9 лет назад
and it also has to be the bisector of BC not to mention B*C* which it's not.
@hongkim3662
@hongkim3662 9 лет назад
Edward Haas I made a mistake when I said angle ABC. Supposed to be angle BAC. The presenter accurately states that B*X and C*X are congruent based on properties of angle bisectors. He doesn't draw them to scale because he was drawing a misleading diagram to begin with. 2nd: The only time an angle bisector will bisect its opposite side is when you are bisecting the vertex angle of an isosceles triangle.
@efhiii
@efhiii 9 лет назад
you are saying that the diagram would have to use an equilateral triangle to be to scale but the proof is to show a non equilateral triangle is equilateral so the diagram is fine until he wrote that B*X and C*X were congruent because he can't prove that with the given information. watch from 0:45 and listen to what he says at 2:00 you'll notice that he refers to points B and C and then lines AB and AC falsely. the reference the two lines only makes sense if you replace the two lines with the two points.the perpendicular bisector is only the locus for the points B and C but he acts as if it works for lines AB and AC which doesn't work. I believe what you were saying was that the construction must be correct but the construction is the proof and the proof is wrong, we both know that so the construction is not correct for the Arbitrary triangle unless it's Isosceles or equilateral. yes the construction is to confuse you because it's almost Isosceles, not because lines are poorly made.
@Zachary_Setzer
@Zachary_Setzer 9 лет назад
The error is the part from 4:31 through about 5:05, where he says you can do it again "on two other sides." But if you try that with, for example, angle C, A will lie on segment CA*, while B* will lie on segment CB, meaning that the final calculation beginning at 3:49 does not apply to the new construction. As others have pointed out, that calculation only works because the triangle is, in fact, isosceles as the proof shows, with AB = BC. That fact is deliberately obscured by a flawed drawing that deceitfully shows the angle bisector and the perpendicular bisector as separate when they should overlap. But the flaw in the drawing isn't the error. It just misdirects your attention away from the actual problem and gets you to spend hours trying to find a flaw where there is none. Without the flaw in the drawing, you would see that the proof, as far as it goes, looks correct and move on to the next logical step of rotating the triangle and seeing if it holds true for the other angles. You would quickly see that it does not, and the internet would miss out on quite a lot of silly people arguing for nonexistent flaws.
@Hugh.Manatee
@Hugh.Manatee 9 лет назад
Sorry, no, that's not it. The trick happens much earlier in the "proof".
@Zachary_Setzer
@Zachary_Setzer 9 лет назад
AdenineMonkey Hello, silly person arguing for a nonexistent flaw.
@Hugh.Manatee
@Hugh.Manatee 9 лет назад
Zachary Setzer I like your style, but you're still wrong. =D The angle bisector and the perpendicular bisector DO overlap in a isosceles triangle, but in any other triangle they do not and there is a single point X.
@Zachary_Setzer
@Zachary_Setzer 9 лет назад
AdenineMonkey I'm not wrong. And you haven't presented an argument. Of course there is a single point X where the respective bisectors overlap in a non-isosceles triangle. But if the triangle is not isosceles, and more specifically, if angle A is not isosceles, you will have ABB* on one side and AC*C on the other side, or vice versa. In either case, the proof does not yield AB = AC. I just read through your other comments to this video and can't even figure out what you think the flaw actually is. Please post it clearly and concisely in one place.
@Hugh.Manatee
@Hugh.Manatee 9 лет назад
Zachary Setzer I didn't because I didn't want to give the answer away in case people were still puzzling. So Spoiler alert. The flaw is that for any triangle the angle bisector runs through the centre of the opposing line. This means that XM = 0, so there are no congruent triangles, unless it's an isosceles triangle, in which case there are infinite congruent triangles (X can be any point along the angle bisector).
@MurtadhaAljanabi
@MurtadhaAljanabi 9 лет назад
The two triangles XBB* and XCC* are NOT congruent Because we don't know if the two angles CXC* and BXB* are equal or not Note: we can say that two triangles are congruent if two sides of one triangle are equal to two sides of the other triangle, and the angle between them MUST be equal in both triangles. He didn't proof that the angles CXC* and BXB* are equal
@MurtadhaAljanabi
@MurtadhaAljanabi 9 лет назад
They are not. I already explained everything
@alear562
@alear562 8 лет назад
+Murtadha Aljanabi Hypotenuse-Leg theorem (SSA) works for right triangles
@jonahm.l-o6171
@jonahm.l-o6171 9 лет назад
If quadrilateral CABX is inscribed in a circle, which it can be, angles B and C must add up to 180 degrees, if line AX were a diameter, then the following configuration ensues where angle B = 90 degrees = angle C, and line AC is therefore equal to line AB. as triangle ABC is scalene, angle A =/= angle B, therefore one angle is obtuse and the other acute. Therefore, one, and only one point among either point B* or point C* which is among LINE AB or AC rather than a supposed ray AB or AC, hence disproving the method.
@Serdar54321
@Serdar54321 9 лет назад
I think perpendicular bisector and angle bisector wouldn't intersect outside the triangle (I mean the right side of BC) (only their extensions would somewhere else)
@Serdar54321
@Serdar54321 9 лет назад
or it could be that XC* or XB* would fall inside triangle so "AB*-BB*=AB" or AC*-CC*=AC is wrong
@Grassmpl
@Grassmpl 9 лет назад
Not quite. They could still intersect outside
@fonaimartin98
@fonaimartin98 9 лет назад
They will always intersect outside, expecially on the circumscrived circle.
@ImaginaryHuman072889
@ImaginaryHuman072889 8 лет назад
There's nothing wrong with his reasoning, BUT the error comes from the fact that the point X is not drawn correctly. He drew the angle ever so slightly off so that the placement of X is incorrect. point X actually should be much closer to point M. The point C* should should be in between point A and point C. you can actually prove that its impossible to have both B* and C* outside of the triangle at the same time. one of them must be inside the triangle and one must be outside of the triangle. Angle Side Side IS valid if the angle is a right angle.
@NEDinACTION
@NEDinACTION 8 лет назад
ImaginaryHuman072889 Drawing things to scale doesn't matter in geometric proofs. He could have done that whole demonstration without drawing anything
@ImaginaryHuman072889
@ImaginaryHuman072889 8 лет назад
Ryan Harper saying scale doesn't matter during a geometric proof is like saying a rounding error doesn't matter during an algebraic proof
@gregjang5402
@gregjang5402 8 лет назад
+ImaginaryHuman072889 But Hasn't this been done before? In Proposition 48 of Book 1 of Euclid's _Elements_ , the diagram was deliberately distorted to find the converse of the Pythagorean Theorem.
@DeathBringer769
@DeathBringer769 5 лет назад
I think how Imaginary Human had no reply to the Euclid retort/example, even 2 years later ;)
@sarthakparashar7508
@sarthakparashar7508 6 лет назад
The two triangles XBB* and XCC* are NOT congruent as suggested, since same side-side-angle is NOT a property for congruency. Therefore, it's wrong to infer from this that BB* = CC*
@adki231
@adki231 7 лет назад
This is a tricky problem indeed. One has to keep in mind that in order to solve such problems you must first draw a correct sketch. The error in this demonstration is in the assumption that point C* lies to the right of point C, when in fact it is situated LEFT of the point C.
@Lelentos
@Lelentos 8 лет назад
4:06 is the bogus step.
@artbyfreddiexx
@artbyfreddiexx 8 лет назад
yep, he's proven that BB* and CC* are equal, so that's like saying 7 - 2 = 5 6 - 2 = 4 therefore they are equal which they clearly aren't
@sppw463
@sppw463 8 лет назад
+Freddie Guthrie This here, is the correct answer
@Jivvi
@Jivvi 8 лет назад
+Freddie Guthrie I think it's more like saying 7-2=5 7+2=9 Therefore 9=5
@somayajulapadmavathi9016
@somayajulapadmavathi9016 8 лет назад
+Jivan Scarano Well said.
@RyanJiang
@RyanJiang 8 лет назад
The problem is simply that C* and B* cannot both lie outside of the triangle. Just use Simpson's Line.
@bramvandenheuvel7733
@bramvandenheuvel7733 9 лет назад
If AB = AC, then a line that goes through the middle of BC and is also perpendicular to it, will also go through poing A. In that case there is no point X, but the whole line is X. Furthermore, point X is never outside the triangle, nor inside for that matter, but always on line BC. Then, if, say AB is longer than AC, point B* will be between points A and B, but point C will not be between points A and C. Hence, AB = AB*+BB*, while AC = AC*-CC* and if BB*=CC* and AB*=AC*, then it no longer follows that AB=AC.
@johnnyknight77
@johnnyknight77 4 года назад
It's because the BC Locus allows B and C to project to a point on the
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