Allen Edmonds Problem and other Shoe / Boot Brand Problems 

Thank you for your effort to protect the makers. The loss of quality manufacturing in the US is a tragedy.

Well said! I bought a pair of AE seconds, couldn’t see a thing wrong with them and most comfortable shoes I’ve worn.

This isn't even getting into the guys who buy the factory 2nds and complain about a defect.

Love or hate it, this needed to be said. The main problem is that we live in a sneaker world. These people compare a “hand” made shoe to a Nike that is made of all synthetic materials that are injected molded on a machine and glued. The biggest complainers are the people buying them when are $200

As I always say, “Everyone knows Sushi, no one knows Sushi.” Same thing applies to shoes. Social media exasperates this innate belief we all have that we know what we’re talking about when we don’t. That comes from one of the most common traits in society, we all have an innate need to be right, and most of us rarely are. I have nearly 200 dress shoes and boots/cowboy boots and I am certifiably not an expert. I leave that to the cobblers who truly do. Great video.

Bravo. Well done! Thanks for saying what has needed to be said.

Well said! You run into 'those people' everywhere be it shoes, watches, guitars, clothing etc. Snobs. More power to you if you can buy the best of the best with price being no object. Some of us are just happy to get the very best we can with what we have to spend and are thrilled to find a better brand at a discount price for whatever reason. As with all these categories it seems some feel the need to justify spending huge amounts of money on admittedly fine products by running down lower priced items that give theirs a run for their money!

Regarding Allen Edmonds.. If you seriously think that people complaining about QC issues, however minor these issues might be, is what's going to drive a brand like AE into the ground, then you're as misinformed as they are. These complaints have always existed. A close friend who sold high quality footwear in the 90s and early 2000s in retail tells me that people used to return shoes to the store, or arrange for return over the phone, for the slightest complaint or minor scuff in the leather. So this isn't new. The only difference is now, thanks to the internet, this narrative is more prevalent and spread around our little corners and communities like instagram, Facebook, different forums and reddit groups, etc. So it's easy for a younger customer to catch on that narrative, no matter how exaggerated it might be, by simply googling the brand. But their impact on the business is very minor. When these companies are controlled by corporations, the goal is simple: maximize profit. High quality, welted, footwear sales are declining everywhere. The British manufacturers like C&J, Cheaney, etc. have been dealing with this for years. The reason is obvious. Everyday life and our society is moving more and more towards casual style. Whether you and I like it or not, that's the reality. I'm old enough to remember Johnston & Murphy. Genesco corporation, which owns J&M, figured this out earlier on, that goodyear welted footwear does not sell well enough for them to continue making it. This is why they closed down their US factory. Not because of QC complaints from customers. In fact, J&M were known to have a better QC than AE, they never sold their seconds online the way AE does. Their US made shoes (like the Aristicrafts) were absolutely brilliant and in fact rarely ever went on sale. This also applies to high quality clothing, not just footwear. Just look at Brooks Brothers and Paul Stuart as examples. Not to mention countless small boutiques and clothier businesses that had to either adapt to attract a new customer base or simply close down. AE has to adapt as well, which is understandable. They had already introduced rubber sneakers like 6 years ago. Even boots. I asked AE CS a couple of years ago and they told me that their best selling boot is the Higgins Mill. But the Higgins Mill wasn't introduced until 2016. And it's now a fan favorite. You see, the company, was already diversifying their portfolio to keep up with a more casual, working, life style. There's truth to these complaints about QC that AE have been getting these past few years. As an AE customer for more than 14 years now, I've experienced some of these issues. The company itself have acknowledged that. We're not talking about the type of minor issues you alluded to, like minor scuffs, or uneven welt joints, etc. They're more serious like inconsistent lasting, uneven heels, uneven stitch density, etc. 15 years ago, AE used to do 11-12 stitches per inch, now they're doing 7-8 stitches per inch. And in some cases, the density is uneven all around the welt. If we're talking about a casual boot, then I'm willing to live with that. But not on a dress model like the Park Avenue for instance. Actually even my older, more casual, models from the early 2000s like the McNeil and the Shelton, used to have 11-12 stitches per inch, and in some cases there were fudging/wheeling. So it's obvious, that with the kind of volumes they're producing, and with larger and more diverse portfolio, which now includes heritage boots, etc, AE have chosen to sacrifice a bit of the quality and finesse in favor of a more diverse portfolio, and maybe lower prices here and there. Some of the most well known cobblers in the business such Steve from Bedos or Jim McFarland have raised some of these concerns and valid criticism in recent years. I hope in the future you do some basic research or elementary fact check before making these videos.

I agree completely that comparing $200 or less priced shoes with quality custom shoes is absurd BUT I also have to say that some of the higher end shoes like Allen Edmonds are NOT living up to their hype these days. I have a couple of dozen pair of AE's and the older ones are great and can be rebuilt many times BUT the new ones are not up to the standards, the fit and quality is no longer there and I've seen some that should have NEVER passed quality controls. I had a pair that were shipped out obviously with serious defects and had one hell of a hard time getting them to make an exchange, Finally I filed a PayPal case against them and PayPal forced them to make a refund~

I have none of these shoes but amen Begging for thousand dollar shoes for 250 hurts everyone

Allen as a boot collector and owner of 60 plus pairs all different brands and styles I absolutely 100% agree with everything you said! We’ll done. These people need to grow up!

I agree to a point....he is right about the people complaining about small little things..but I'll give you an example of what happened to me and I never complain, cause I think little things give the shoe character. Bought a pair of Hamilton boots. The Leather was so uneven I couldn't tie the shoes right, and they didn't believe me till I sent them to their QA department. Then they set me a replacement and same problem...back and forth for two weeks and all had the same defect. I wanted a refund. They literally had a QC person go to the factory asking what gives and figure out why so many were messed up. Finally a month or so later I got a pair of boots with the leather and holes close to even. They called me and explained Apparently there was an issue and no one cared to notice. That's not a customer issue that's a QC issue at the factory that is obvious out of the box. If I noticed and I'm an idiot. How can someone who works there not?

Thank you for this! As an AEE member, this needed to be said! I’ll admit when I first started buying these shoes, it was a lot of money to me. Now I know what to look for and who to go to. I know that I’m going to get a great shoe at a great price. I just bought a pair of second strands and that were only seconds due to some tiger stripping which I didn’t even notice until I’d worn them a few times. The only problem I have with AE is my weird feet and that’s it

This is such an important message. Your analysis of what's happening with AE, and what's going to happen is absolutely spot on!

well done ! We needed to hear this. And I love my slightly imperfect Allen Edmonds shoes. Fantastic quality !

The quality needs to remain, but i have yet to see a private equity firm improve quality. J M, Cole Hahn, Floresheim and many others used to be great and are no more as their manufacturering got cheap or went offshore. I hope that does not happen at AE.

I sold Factory Seconds for AE two years ago. Thank you for everything you just said.

I appreciate this video, Mr. Cobbler. It is wild that people are complaining about minor imperfections. I agree with everything you stated and appreciate my old-school JMs and AEs. I appreciate all the hard work and dedication of the shoe cobblers and shoe makers. Be blessed.

Excellent commentary. I’ve been in the shoe repair business for 45 years. I couldn’t agree more with your comments.

I tried so hard with Allen Edmonds. The lack of consistency is staggering. You can get an impeccable pair on sale for $150. Then you order a shell pair for $700 and they’re crap. Then customer service is another matter. Had to contest my charge with credit card because for hours I couldn’t get anyone on the phone. For my sanity I had to let Allen Edmonds go.

Thank you !! Keep up the great work and the passion you have for your craft !! I love haters that just tells you that your right

Thanks for the clarity. I like boots.

I have the same honey brown AE shoes as you do. Love them!

Wow, so well said. What are the blue boots on the right?

Thank you for this video. Could you also make videos on "issues" that are non-issues or are easy to fix? I noticed a large area glue residue on the vamp when I got my first pair a couple years ago, I decided to return it because I don't know how to remove it. If I treated incorrectly, it would lose the color... I put a reason in the return sheet, not sure whether that will help. I was not picky, but just uneducated...

You have the big picture perspective. AE retail in Birmingham Al. , Destin, Fl and North Charleston, SC are now Closed. This include the AE outlet stores

Thanks for the video..you are absolutely correct!!

Thank you! I’m a fan now!

Great video. Great point that needs to be more widely known. Exposing the silliness and unfairness of complaining about minute flaws on an AE or Thursday Boot needs to be done. Kudos.

I bought a pair of AE courtsides as seconds plus a sale for 104. There were some loose threads and a little bit of glue squeeze out in some areas, but for the price, hell I’ll clean the glue out myself. I was ecstatic. They’re comfortable daily drivers and I don’t expect perfection, but they’re solid.

Well said my man! Allen Edmonds is such an amazing shoe company! I currently own eight pairs of AE from factory 1st to 2nd they are great fit and finish overall. I am still looking to own more AE shoes in the future!

Speak the truth! Thank you for calling this out!

Thank you very much for a much needed video. A great education for all of us… I’ll stock up on my AE GYW shoes and boots now! Shame on the ignorant causing the misinformation overload!!

Thank you for this video!

Awesome video. The same so called experts often asked how to polish a pair of shoes. I just laugh. Thank you.

Great Video, needed to be SAID!!!

You are doing something very important for all of us, as you push shoe makers to boost their quality.

Love the video, good job!

Well said! I have over 50 pairs of upmarket shoes. Some were bargains, some were very dear. I still service them with many different products on Winter Sundays. Hand work is to be sought after, maintained and revered. the price is the price regardless.

Well said! Thank you!

Great video!

Can you give us an example?

I’m glad you said this. I was just reading the comments on one of the Nick’s videos where they redid Wolverine 1000 Mile boots (made in the USA by the way). People were outraged that the 1000 Miles had some synthetic materials. Well, for less than half the price, duh! Not everyone can afford a $600 boot and the Wolverines are pretty good boots for under $250. Both Nicks and Wolverine are good boots for the price and really don’t compete with each other directly.

Great video.

Preach!!!!!! I will say that the AE sneaker solemis actually stitched on

I got a pair of chisos once where one boot was a EE and the other a D, even though they were both labeled D. One of the few cases I did a return...

Thank you sir.

Thanks for this video!

Yes! Finally! It had to be said! Well said indeed.

Well said... Thank you sir!.. Cole Haan used to make good shoes too..

I was hoping this video would be made

Bravo!! I just subscribed.

So I love your channel!! Any advice about someone getting into the industry????

Do you know what Truman boot uses for filler/footbed (cork, leather, etc…) on their Goodyear welted boots?

I agree, I see this and it baffles me. I mean don't get me wrong. There are qc issues and if it will affect something substantial just return them but some of the perfection people demand is insane! I had a pair of boots from Red Wing I returned because it affected the fit and caused my right toe to be pinched. The right hand boot cut in a half an inch on the toe box and caused acute pain. So that sort of thing is an issue and I couldn't make it work. I know it led to Nick's Boots in Spokane to stop carrying polishable leathers and shell. As you said the leather might come scuffed when shipped. People expected John Lofgren stitch quality or above, no scuffs, etc. I love Nick's for the quality and the thickness but they are handmade with extremely thick leathers. They use 5-6 oz leathers minimum on upwards of 8 oz leathers. People expect perfection and it is not going to be there. I mean they are a cut above introductory footwear but at nearly double the price they should be. Just how there are 1000-3000 dollar shoes and even people making hand crafted lasts and getting a bespoke pair of shoe trees with your purchase. If you demand that then fine but buy that boot! Red Wing is solid at it's price point and is a decent introduction to GYW footware just like Allen Edmunds. I am only jumping in because I see the same thing even with the local manufacturers. Mad props to you for attempting to get people to realize this before it is too late! Admittedly I have a pair of 877's that just came in the other day. The welt is crooked and I can live with it. As long as it doesn't affect the ability for it to be resoled I can live with it. I'm a bit concerned only because it comes awfully close to the edge right by the toe. The uppers were crafted amazingly well and actually one of the better sets of leather and stitching I have ever seen on a boot. I guess worst comes to worse I'll pay for a new welt to be put on. I'll be taking a gamble but I also know they are handcrafted and someone put blood sweat and tears into it. The old adage make it work. My first pair of heritage footwear actually had a discoloration but I had to hold it up to eye level to notice so I let it go. It was a pair of Chuppewa Service Boots and while not the best they lasted me through a lot of winters. The cardboard footbed cracked and the uppers weren't in the shape to make a new insole worthwhile. But I enjoyed those boots while I had them. They were not the quality you would expect for $300 in 2013 but I didn't know any better at the time. But it led me to appreciate other manufacturers at different prices. Do your research, at a low price I find Parkhurst and Grant Stone do amazing QC work but perfection should never be there functuonality should. You can't compare it to Edward Green for instance or bespoke footwear. That said I would love to see a video of what is acceptable and what is not. Stitchdown made a wonderful article on what is acceptable and what is not and I highly recommend people peruse it first before they go crazy on things. If you are going to go use your boots on the factory floor a couple of dings or scratches won't make a difference. But a hole in the leather that missed QC will.

I like this video. I’m not a shoe expert, but I do work in a machine shop and from my experience if a customer wants perfection they will have to pay more because it will take a lot more time to make the product. I personally like Allen Edmonds because they still make good year welted shoes and they run a lot of sales so you can get them at a good price.

Thank you for calling out the "experts". It may not be "fair" that everyone cannot afford the high end brands but that is no reason to trash something you have never owned. I am one of the people who cannot afford the best but I do appreciate quality and the fact that there are companies that are working hard to bring quality to the masses. Thanks to professionals like this I have learned so much about shoe and boot construction and care. As a result I now buy the best I can afford and depend heavily on people who actually know what they are talking about and ignore the trolls. If you you are going to have a hissy fit because your shoes look like they actually touched the ground or had a foot in them you are collecting art. Most people are looking for return on investment on shoes/boots that they wear until they wear out.

A scathing commentary… but warranted.

As an AEE member I too have become fatigued by the most insane complaints about the smallest details. I may not own many AE but they were my first quality dress shoe and stand by those I currently own. I understand that $400+ shoes are not by any means affordable to most people but the fact is that AE is trying to make the expense more palpable by using lending services that let customers pay off their shoes in 4 payments. That’s quite fair!

BTW - I've watched your videos for several years and have always respected your work, opinions, and expertise but I feel like this latest video is getting a little hard on some people. The posts I've seen from people complaining about AE and some other brands owned by the conglomerate have been valid, serious defects (heels coming off, welt coming loose, big color difference between R & L shoe, etc.) not pickly little things.

Damn. A dose of truth Ruth!!! However AE does care about me.

This video really woke up around 9:00. Nice.

I have three AE shoes and one belt, I love them a little bit high for my price range, but it is well worth the money and the more I wear them the better they mold to my feet, I also have a cheaper brand of Wolf and Sheppard dress shoes that I love

I am exploring the international boot makers right now. Mostly Asian boot makers.

I agree completely with everything you said, and I hope Allen Edmonds doesn’t follow the path of other defunct shoe makers. However I think it’s completely unacceptable for Allen Edmonds and Alden to cheapen the construction quality of their $800-1100 boots and still charge premium pricing for them. That’s the only issue I have with them right now. And maybe these cost cutting measures are a response to these complainers.

Nice video man

Great video! I had a friend complain to the waitress about his steak at The Iron Skillet. We are no longer friends.

I have 15 pairs of shoes, some Alden, some Helm, but mostly AE. I love them. Excellent shoe for the money and well worth the investment. Buy your first pair in store for proper fitting and ensuring shoe is to your liking.

I don't get the hate AE gets in shoe enthusiast forums. You are right. It isn't fair, as they are often comparing a $200 F2 to a first quality shoe or boot that sells for $600, $800 or $1,200 and never goes on sale.

Respect

Great video! Another negative aspect of the posts on enthusiasts pages is this culture of bragging about the best deals-how they got a crazy low price on a pair of essentially brand new shoes. Those are rare and far in between. They need to realize not everyone has to get rid of shoes at insanely low prices and price their shoes fairly on ebay, but even then people want rock bottom prices on something people paid good money.

I don’t even feel qualified enough to comment on this video.

I didn’t even know this was a problem for me personally I think spending anything over 500$ for a shoe or boot is a bad deal for me personally but nicks and whites give excellent boots for the price

Bad thing is this is a common problem in all communities of people comparing top of the line to entry level they do it in any industry and its frustrating

I love your videos. You remind me alot of Danny Mcbride. :)

Good point. I recently got a pair of Allen Edmonds boots that are not 100% flawless but they are made by people by hands and slight imperfections are fine! Everyone saying oh Allen Esmknds quality is slipping, I suspect that is people who don’t know slight imperfections are ok. Why everyone wears black sneakers is sad. Shoes are better. If I really want to wear sneakers, the Thursday roughouts are nice.

Amen!

You make a good point about minor complaints especially if a person didn't spend over 700 and above

I purchased my AE Leeds Shell Cordovans at full price. 700$. Great shoes. Great finish. Comfy too. I'd buy them again. Maybe next time some Long Wings. Great value.

I dont ever expect AEs to be prefect. They always have minor imprefections but for me they're never defective. I really could care less about stray threads or a messy stitch here and there. Im going to add imperfections just by wearing them so I dont care about minor things as long as it doesnt cause me pain underfoot. If I paid $1000 those same things would be unacceptable but for the comfort and quality of Allen Edmonds they are awesome.

I think AE is a victim hype (and not their own fault). AE is the Honda Accord of goodyear welted shoes, which is why I own about 10 pairs. Solid, well-built and last for miles and miles. BUT, AE is not the luxury or supercar of goodyear welted shoes. The problem is that newcomers see that $300-$400 price and think AEs are "expensive" shoes. They aren't. Newbies don't know what they don't know. They're solid, entry level dress shoes. You're not getting a Ferrari when you pay for an Accord. Don't expect that you are. If you want perfection, it's going to cost 10x what AEs cost. On a side note, if you want to ensure you get the pair of AEs you want, go to an AE store and look at them before you buy them. Compare several pairs of the same model/size and pick the ones you think look best...

EDIT: I am a new comer to this!! What would boots under 100 be categorized as? Like Patron, silver bull, and Bonanza ( well if you get them on sale. I guess). I mean these 3 brands are more in my price range and some are good year welted or even Blake stitched. I do realize they are not as good as Thursday but I never owned a thursday boot or any of the other ones you mentioned here. I have compared Patron to Rock Rooster though but only because some one said they looked a lot a like and they do. Even Bonanza look like Patron boots but they are not actually the same price. Patron boots are normally 70 or less. Where at Bonanza are 170 to 125. I think Rock Rooster are some times under a hundred and some time over so I guess I could have included them in my question above. Also I am new to this whole boot thing. I didn't even know most of these brand existed until recently. I also had no idea Cobblers were still around until recently. I respect what you guys do and enjoy watching the shoe repairs. Before I learned of these brands I would usually stick to sketchers which as far as I know can not be resoled. Although seeing the impressive work that you do and other cobblers do I would say you probably could resole them. Also watching what you guys do I think I trash my shoes way before I should because you guys work on some shoes that are far more warn out then any shoe I have trashed. EDIT: I have purchased defective shoes before. Like a pair of bates boots that the seller was saying were defective and they were. Oh boy the complaints the seller got and the complaints were about the defects. I am like dude the seller even said they were defective that is why they were selling them at such a low price. The price got down to 20 for them. I Also have a pair of defective silver bull shoes although I can not wear them because the defect is with the sole. One shoe has a much thinker sole then the other but I didn't complain to the seller. In fact I sent an email to a different cobbler to see if he could fix them. I have a pair of rock roosters that are defective as well but I got them free so again not going to complain. Also the boots I have compared on my review youtube channel I own the ones I compare and I know I am not an expert. My expertise is in computers as I am an IT guy. I am also more into Christian related things but would not consider my self an expert in that.

So what you are saying is that it is the consumers of the product that is ruining the product?

Its inevitable regardless of customers response because it is very costly to produce quality, goodyear welted shoes in America. Private Equity firms just care about their bottom line and want to cut costs

Thank you for your video and comments, it needed to be said. I was a member of the AE Enthusiasts FB page for a minute but got tired of the nonsense you describe, grown men bitching about a scuff and/or stitch is a bit much.

You're the man, alan! Ive been so fed up listening to these so called "ENTHUSIASTS" gripe about every little thing (they dont understand)

People want to be able to say their luxury goods to be handmade, but then they complain when such handwork is evident. That makes no sense at the end of the day. Well done with this video.

I’m am new to the entry level of goodyearwelted boots. My first pairs were two pairs of Thursday captains in classic black and Arizona Adobe. I’m part of the Thursday group in Reddit and on Facebook. I always read people complaining about the most minute things like stitching or the design on the boot not being the same. There was a dude on reddits group that was giving Thursdays a hard time because the Classic captains and the Arizona adobes are now made on two different lasts. The Arizona Adobe is now more rounded than it was years ago. I didn’t mind it so much. I think Thursday boots are great for the price. I got into these boots because I wanted something gywed and I was only used to cemented soles from Cole Haan’s so find Thursdays was a treat in itself. I have to admit that I did contact Thursdays about a loose thread because I didn’t know better and at first when I contacted them I expected that they would just tell me that it’s ok but they ended up replacing the boots without me asking for a replacement. I am glad they did and I appreciated what they did but I did not ask for it. At the same time, I’m not going to turn them down either if they are going to replace my boot with a new pair because I just got my boots within the last 30 days.

👏👏👏

Most people will find $395 pair of shoes expensive. They will also expect to get what they pay for. That being said, I only buy AE only when on sale to compensate for the expected "defects". One can even call to get an additional discount. I recently purchased Dalton's with a long huge fold/mark on the shaft. They added another 25% off, ended up paying $160 for a pair of boots that retail for $495 or so. I will not even touch or look into factory seconds.

You don’t compare a used Chevy to a Bentley.

There’s a lost appreciation of hard work and experience due to the amount of access of info due to the internet. Going on your journey to quality items gives you a lot of appreciation of what you can afford and everything you’ve gained. These little young pricks need to grow up.

Reminds me of Old RU-vid

J&M is sad. I have a pair of brown Crown Aristocrafts I’ve babied for the last 15 years. Lovely made in USA shoes. Would hate for AE to go the same route

That's so bad that people are doing this. It's just like taking a car to an inexpensive car mechanic and expect the repair to be as good if you paid 2x-3x more for the repair. No you just can't cause inexpensive car mechanic is not likely going to use as good materials/parts. It's the same with shoes you usually get what you pay for.

I’m generally a Brogue-Oxford buyer. However, I kind of feel attacked as a long-term AE owner. ( not all of us are assoles). Conservatively, I probably have 30+ pairs of AE. You seem like a knowledgeable young man, that said I was almost certainly buying AE’s before you were born. They are not the same standard as they were in the 70’s, 80’s and even into the mid 2000’s. I’ve never bought a factory 2nd. They were fantastic as new, but they certainly don’t wear as well over time like they used to. The quality has diminished. It’s not even close to my older shoes. They are still exceptional. The customer service at AE is definitely turned into dogshit now too. AE certainly knows my name, as I’m in their database and have been for 40+ years. That no longer matters, I can assure you. I own a host of other brands, but I’m certainly no expert as I’m sure a cobbler would be. My Amadeo Tesoni’s, my Carmina’s were substantially more expensive, but I’m not sure I actually see the value. (And I can’t remember what I paid for them , but they weren’t inexpensive) Before I retired, my go to brand was either the AE’s or Ferragamo ( I think I have 3 or 4 pairs of “Lucas’s “. I still like them a lot. I like both, but I have broken the shanks in 2 pair of Salvatore’s. They squeak a lot when they break. 🤦‍♂️ And LV’s? I wouldn’t buy a pair even on a bet. Not impressed in the least. Too “Gucci” for my taste. Take it easy on us that like AE’s and have supported the brand for decades. I’m afraid they have lowered their quality standards and build standards. It’s actually rather sad. AE’s have been the shoes of presidents forever.

He's mad as he'll and not going to take it anymore. I'm glad that someone has the sense and the passion to say what needs to be said. Same clowns who will pay $1000+ for an ugly sneaker because it is a "collectable " and have a hissy fit because their prize shoe has a crease in it feel like they are smart enough to comment on shoes that will last long enough to be passed down and/or resoled multiple times because they have been worn enough to need resoled, and they can be because they were built right.

Please, post this video on all the different shoe groups of Facebook. Entitled brags need to hear this from a pro.

You are a 100 percent right sir. All that complaining is beyond me.

The same reason that you don't compare cheap Thursday boots to $1,200 boots....... online video makers should stop putting down Dr. Martens. You can't take a $150 boot, and compare it to anything higher in price and better made.