Altaic: Rise and Fall of a Linguistic Hypothesis 

Really the coolest writing system there is imo.

@@wasserruebenvergilbungsvirus It's actually traditional mongolian script. We borrowed their script alphabet. However, they ditched this script and went cyrillic since 1941. They actually decided last week, yes, on March 19, 2020, that they are going to re-adopt the traditional Mongolian script, but imo it's gonna be hard. They have lost this script for 3-4 generations already.

@@mailasun Btw the horizontally written mongolic looks like the Wadiyan script

mini francis sorry, I don’t know what “wadiyan script” is.

@@mailasun Its not a real script its the script used in a fictional nation of Wadiya in the movie Dictator

Could be a sprachbund.

@Cu6upckuû As a Finn, I noticed the same similarity. Well, we Finns *_DID_* come from the Urals (hence: ”Uralic”), around where there are lots of Turkic peoples (including Tatars, I believe); and Hungarian (another Uralic, Finno-Ugric language) shares *_VERY_* similar grammar, in my mind, to Turkic languages. 🤔

@@deejayaech4519 Probably is 🤔.

The similiarity of formants is important. Moreover some roots are also evedentli the same, the word tjat means fish for example. There must bencommon.Ural-Altaic ancestor.

@Cu6upckuû Finnish was included in the Ural-Altaic (or Uraltaic) mega-family-hypothesis, together with all the other Uralic languages, though.

Hey Xidnaf :)

nice to see you Xidnaf! I've liked a lot of your vids.

Greetings to you from Berlin, Germany!

Hello! Love your videos.

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To sum up, it is never a tree, but always a net.

@@christosvoskresye Amen to that

That's literally what we humans do all the time. Shit is too complex so we try to make it simple and misunderstand. Problems with the economy? Print more money, if people have more everything will be fine. (Looks at Zimbabwe) Is Yellowstone going to erupt in 40 years Max? Let's try to use cool gases to avoid that (Almost triggers the apocalypse before its time). And so on.

Ha, I was going to comment about this too, since I just read David Quammen's The Tangled Tree. The human desire to classify things neatly is a mental trap.

> We STILL have lateral gene transfer between distantly related species today Ehh that is definitely overstating this. Gene transfer can happen between species but definitely not distantly related ones since they wouldn't be able to actually mate. The closest thing would be retroviruses but where viruses sit on the tree of life is difficult to say. In bacteria it is true that genes can transfer between pretty distantly related species but it isn't true for multi cellular life. The tree of life model is still a very good one for understanding the broader history of life on Earth but when we have to look closer it tends to be drawn differently these days. It's not a model that can be used to understand evolution on an individual scale but it works on the broader scale.

Idk why but I thought I was the only one who watched both!

@@grimhavenz Nope, me too.

@@grimhavenz Watched both as well :-)

Nativlang is like 2 teirs above langfocus in quality. Which is just to say nativlang is SS+ teir, the top.

Except langfocus is shit I'm happy about NativLang tho

I know nothing about linguistics, so I don't have any recommendations regarding the field, but this video was great and it made me invested in the story, so I'd say you're doing an awesome job :)

I want an overview of all accepted language families

I might be personally biased, being a speaker, but history around the Uralic family is rather interesting. Also, the origins of Malagasy in comparison to the continent closest by is a fun oddity to explore.

@@Alfonso162008 Thank you!

I would absolutely love a video about Uralic languages (as a speaker myself). It's very hard to find good RU-vid videos about them.

Well, let's build public schools for the deaf in the places where there are none and we can study it.

I think that Dixon's theory is fairly reasonable. "The Rise and Fall of Languages" by RWM Dixon.

Creolisation means that there have to be more than one language already existing. This is not how a language branch come up.

@Erkinbek Mongolhan, Mongolian seems to be elder and Turkish as Turkic is much younger. Turkic and Mongolian could be of Paleosibirian ancestry. Where Turkic is the new branch. It is similar to Indo-Aryan which is part of the greater family branch Indo-Germanic (Indo-European). But Persian/Farsi has a Sprachbund with Arabic and the Hindi languages have a Sprachbund with the Dravidian.

@veryserioz, nope. Yeniseian languages have no ancestry to Turkic or Mongolian. They are just part of the Paleosibirian Sprachbund.

I totally agree with you

So true.

That makes sense considering that Altaic is a sprachbund

We Turks always see Mongols and Manchurians as brothers. Also, wr have some same words. Like kut(holy).

@@goldeviolets4314 with such grammatical similarity

#triggered 🤓😂

Do you want to provoke even more? Say you agree with the Ural-Altaic hypothesis

there are so many ways to provoke language nerds

@@ajavisk I like to call it Uraltaic.

No, you didn't: try throwing at them a mass lexical comparison, they'll bite and start a nulclear war of words, of very ugly words!

Something else I think is worth mentioning; I was taught in middle school that Turkish belonged not only to the Altaic family, but to the Ural-Altaic family. Nowadays schools settle for just Altaic.

@@slamalamadingdangdongdiggy5268 modern Turkish very mixed language Turkic grammar with many Turkic word and added new Turkish words + persian > arabic > greek > french > english > german > slavic words. We should research Tuva, Sakha, Altai, Chuvash words not modern Turkish. People think Turkey represent whole Turkic world but actualy representhing Altai shaman(still) people and nations.

@@sertankay86 To be fair, modern Turkish is more Turkic than Tuvan, Sakha or Altaic. The last three have many newly added Russian and Mongolic words, while Anatolian Turkish has a foreign influence of 14% according to the Turkish Language Foundation. (Türk Dil Kurumu) This would make Anatolian Turkish the purest form of Turkic, while Chuvash is just 50-60% Turkic.

Is that "Tanrı" in modern (Anatolian) Turkish?

@Nadir Kuleli That's awesome! Is that the primary word for "God" in modern Turkish, or is "Allah" also used, as is sometimes done by Persian and Urdu speakers?

Amerind: hold my... fermented taiga berry brew?

*Laugh in Adamic*

Borean: Hello, fellows!

Basque: ahem...

Ken Keenan Na-dene-Caucasian

Same here and it makes sense, since the nations and tribes have all kind of cultural exchange with each others through all ages, with all these wars, envoys, trades, invasions and occupation. Language is just one of those thing their share and exchange.

I prefer to call it a cultural family linguistic tree. I wish it was talked about more often.

Linguistic found family

There is some issue. Anthropologists use language family to classify the ethnic groups

@Philosophy is pain i'm agreed with, it's just our way to make the world more simple to understand. But, i agree too languages related have more cultural similarity, so...

Propaganda purposes

It is in Korea too tbh

@@bonbonbons Nobody knows what altaic is in Korea. I'm Korean in Korea

I can confirm this as a 28 years old Turkish. I still stan with this theory btw.

Propaganda purposes. Modern day Turkish nationalism is somewhat opposed to Islam and the cultural heritage of that religion, starting with Atatürk's reforms on language and society. Today's nationalists and religious being opposite poles in politics. So they reach out to a distant pre-islamic past, and Altaic seems to be part of that construction of a glorious past.

9000 yıl önceki dillerimiz aynı, ister benim anadolu türkçem olsun, ister sizin kazaklara ve ailemin çoğu kazaklara benziyor!!

thats really interesting to hear as a korean

@@33y852 kazağa mı benziyorsunuz? Arada görüyorum tr de hep merak etmişimdir nerelisiniz? Doğudan geliyor bizim aile ve biz daha çok açık tenli araba benziyoruz

@@parsifal40 genelde iç anadoluda olur ben de kayseriliyim gözlerim çekik

Kazaklar kipcak turkleri anadoludaki turkler oguz turkleridir. Anadoludaki turkler turkmenistandaki turkler ve azerbeycandaki turkler oguz turkleridir ve onlar anadolu kavimleri arablar ve perslerle cok karismistir.(kiz alip verme givi) o yuzden araba veya yunanlara (kivanc tatlitug) benzeyenler cok.

Balkan gang form up

@Hernando Malinche yo what's up Hernando good to see you here

West-Europe gang whattup

@@pedrosampaio7349 well west continental Europe is entirely of the latin group (except the Basque). And no I don't count Germany as Western Europe

@@flaviusbelisarius7517 I was more thinking the Former Frankish Empire: Dutch, French, German and Italian as well as the dialects/minor languages in between like Venetian, Occitan, Low Saxon, Walloon, etc. Side note: I don't like using the terms language and dialect. A language is just a dialect with an army and a navy after all, and the are dialect continua and such. Is there a better term that encompasses both that anyone can name?

Glad he didn't resort to an imaginary ice age to account for the crossing when ships suffice especially with the Bering strait.

Okkk. I’m an Altaic proponent. But I stop short at claims the Altaic family entered the new world 😂 but bonus points to the author for creativity

If you think about it, it is possible. The continents of America, Africa and Europe drifted apart millions of years ago, long before humans existed. And the only realistic way that humans would be able to reach Americas is through East Asia across to America. The Native Americans, Aztecs, Maya and the other ethnicities could not have come to America through Europe or Africa. So they must have come from Asia. The possibilty of if being somehow true is not completely zero.

That idea is contingent on so many conditions being true together that are still just hypotheses on their own. But damn if it isn't an interesting idea.

Some of the Turks, including Atatürk was thinking this way too. In fact Atatürk gave a diplomat a task to inspect Mayan language to find similar patterns with Turkish and he even gave this man (Tahsin) the surname of "Mayatepek". (Maya for Mayans, "tepe/k" a common word in both languages which means hill)

But Turkish grammar is very regular. So no need to memorize. Here are Worldwide Linguists' Opinions on Turkish Language Paul Roux: "Turkish is a mathematical language full of thought and intellect." *Moliere: "Turkish is language to be admired; you can express a great deal by a few words." *French Turcologist Jean Deny said: "The Turkish language suggests that it was formed as a result of the consultation and discussion of an elite committee of scholars. Turkish verbs have such a peculiarity that they cannot be found in any of the Arian languages. This feature is the power to form new words with affixes”. Jean Deny *Herbert W. Duda:“Turkish, which expresses all thoughts and feelings in the most perfect way, has such a rich vocabulary that everyone admires this language and accepts it as the most perfect scientific language.'”. *Herbert Jansky: “Turkish language is an extremely rich and easy-to-understand, easy-to-learn scientific language in terms of vocabulary, phonetics, orthography, syntax and vocabulary.” *Paul Roux: “Turkish is a mathematical language full of reason and thought.” *Max Mulller: "Turkish is the result of the creative power of the Turkish langugae. It is the product of human intellect's awesome might. There is no other language which can be understood as easily, or enjoyed as much as Turkish." It is a real pleasure to read a Turkish grammar, even though one may have no wish to acquire it practically. The ingenious manner in which the numerous grammatical forms are brought out, the regularity which pervades the system of declension and conjugation, the transparency and intelligibility of the whole structure, must strike all who have a sense of that wonderful power of the human mind which has displayed itself in language. Given so small a number of graphic and demonstrative roots as would hardly suffice to express the commonest wants of human beings, to produce an instrument that shall render the faintest shades of feeling and thought; given a vague infinitive or a stern imperative, to derive from it such moods as an optative or subjunctive, and tenses as an aorist or paulo-post future; given incoherent utterances, to arrange them into a system where all is uniform and regular, all combined and harmonious; such is the work of the human mind which we see realised in language. But in most languages nothing of this early process remains visible. They stand before us like solid rocks, and the microscope of the philologist alone can reveal the remains of organic life with which they are built up. In the grammar of the Turkic languages, on the contrary, we have before us a language of perfectly transparent structure, and a grammar the inner workings of which we can study, as if watching the building of cells in a crystal beehive. An eminent orientalist remarked, ‘ We might imagine Turkish to be the result of the deliberations of some eminent society of learned men *The Turkish language is neat, which can be considered to have been made after a long study and vote of an elite committee of scholars. The undisturbed smoothness and order in the inflectional form of the Turkish language, the ease of comprehension that comes from its structure, excite those who can understand this extraordinary power of expression created in the language. The most ingenious structure in Turkish is the verb structure. The Turkish language can explain the subtleties of meaning that no other language can or tries to explain with many words, with a single word.” MY OPINIONS ON TURKISH - Johan Vandewalle (The text is written by him. It is written by him in Turkish.) “…I think that a native Turkish speaker thinks in short sentences, and when speaking, he builds complex structures by connecting these short sentences in various ways. This "tendency to connect sentences" can be weak in some speakers, and strong in others, almost to the extent of a disease. The linguistic structures that emerged in this last situation reflect the superior possibilities of the human mind in the best way. Although I have studied many languages ​​belonging to different language groups, I can say that I have never come across a structure that fascinates me as much as complex sentence structures in Turkish. If you let me be a little sentimental, I sometimes say to myself, “I wish Chomsky had learned Turkish when he was younger too…”. I'm sure then modern linguistics would have been shaped according to Turkish, not English…” *Receiving the Babylonian World Award for speaking thirty-two languages, Belgium's Ghent University Center for Eastern Languages and Cultures, Dr. Johann Van De Walle explains why he is interested in Turkish today: “Turkish can be learned in a very short time. The rules in chess are logical, simple and few in number. Even a seven-year-old can learn to play chess. Despite this convenience, the person playing chess does not get bored throughout his life. The game possibilities are endless. It is a very magical feature that the same situation exists in the Turkish grammar system. Turkish grammar is a language that has a regular and unexceptional character almost as much as mathematics.

Depends on your native language. What is it?

@@barbar5822 Cantonese

I would completely agree Turkish a lot harder than western languages like German, French or especially English but it is quite similar to Japanaese or Korean. If you learn it's harmony and how it effects suffixes you are good to go.

@@ggoddkkiller1342 So you meant Turkish is not difficult than Korean or Japanese?

Did they change the name of the capital because it is an anagram of Satana?

@@barbatvs8959 In fact, no. In the Kazakh language there is no word "Satan". The name was changed because the first president transferred power to the Senate speaker.

@@nurmakhanzholshybek3392 Your country has many Muslims, and they are familiar with the character called in Arabic Shaytan as well as many with English in this globalized world, hence your using English. Also, Russians talk of Satan too, being heretics who claim to be Christian, yet who worship Mary.

@@nurmakhanzholshybek3392 PS Long ago I saw a video covering masonic symbolism in Astana before the name changed. The leader is a mason, and secretly worships Satan. Virtually or totally all country leaders do, and I prove it in my series on the satanic which has over 3,000 slides although one installment was taken down by youtube becauase of Muslim protests and youtube's libtarded cowardice.

@@barbatvs8959 Astana literally meant "capital" in Kazakh, we have plenty of things named after the first president, so the government decided to add the city as well

Even better when it's on the same day as a new Langfocus video!

Good questions. I've been wanting to talk about alternatives to linguistic family trees, like the "wave theory". I know biologists/naturalists have long noticed the similar properties between languages and speciation, while linguists have talked about the "areal" issues not accounted for in "genealogical" linguistics.

@@NativLang I also know that in biology especially with prokaryotic life that genetic relationships are often not simple trees as well, and languages more resemble that sort of thing than say genetic clones or whatnot.

@@NativLang That sounds fascinating, please do

I'd agree that the mere nature of information renders a simplistic tree of origin a useless ghost-hunt.

I think a key to this "family" is the development of mobility.

hi viktor, the world really is tiny haha

@@verhvouvim1518 Oh god oh fuck

I was just asking myself why I was so interested yet felt so sleepy

Lol

The man made a nice edit on Orkhon Inscriptions. I suggest you take a look. :) ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-d1TIK5a11E8.html

mine actually says the altaic theory has gotten out of fashion - which is very strange considering korean and japanese's basic structure is so uncanny similar it should be obvious they are related, even if distantly. besides, half of africa is pretty much thousands of languages who still have enough traits in common to be considered all Bantu languages, why can't Asia have a similar situation, considering the amount of migrations and invasions it went through?

@@thomaswinwood No, unfortunately. Those papers and books I mentioned aren't really about languages, and only mention it in general descriptions of the cultures and their similarities, but it's such a common recurring theme in works by non-linguists/non-philologists.

@@KyrieFortune I'm no expert, but isn't it possible that the similarities between Japanese and Korean are explained by convergent evolution rather than a common root, considering that their native vocabulary is quite different?

Muh Japonic-Koreanic theories. Muh lexical similarities. Muh final verbz. :D

@پاسدار فرد Александр Japanese and Korean isolated from one another? That's preposterous.

Sir Gay? What? Star Austin?

@@barbatvs8959 man wtf is wrong with you

Açık eleştiridir!!! Wikideki irani fikir bağnazlarının yazdığı ve 100 yıl başında Avrupa sömürgeciliğini haklı çıkarmak için uydurulan cümlelerle tarihi gerçekleri değiştiremezsiniz. Hele Hint-Avrupa dili üstüncülerinin çabaları da çok komik!!!! -O zaman bir türk, koreli, moğol veya japon nasıl oluyor da Hint-Avrupa dillerini zorlukla öğrenirken Ural-Altay dillerini çok çabuk öğrenebiliyor? -Kazım Mirşan hocaya göre şu anki en saf türkçe, tatar türkçesi; uygur türkçesini bile (kendisi uygurdur) çok bozulmuş bulur. Tatar türkçesi Moğolca ile türkçenin yoğun etkileşimde bulunduğu bir dil. Ama nasıl ouyorsa türk dili olduğu inkar edilemiyor! -Avrupa buzçağında buzlarla kaplı ve hala neoderttallerin egemenliğinde iken ortaasya şu anki Avrupa gibiydi. Ve insanları da etkileşim içindeydiler, doğal olarak kaynaştılar ve sonuçta ilk dillerini ortaya çıkardılar. Unutulan bir konuda türklerde kabile kültürünün çok hakim olduğudur, kabileler bölündükçe doğal olarak kelime telafuzları da değişti. Bu kabileler başka toplumlardan insanları da içine kabul ediyordu, doğal olarak genetik olarakta çeşitlendiler. -Bir dilin hangi gruba ait olduğunu görmek istiyorsanız, dilde cinsiyet var mı ve yeni kelimeler nasıl türetiliyor ona bakın; ural-altay dillerinin özünde cinsiyet yoktur ve nedense günümüz hint-avrupacı sömürge artıklarının iddia ettiği üzere akraba sayılmayan bu diller sondan eklemeli dillerdir! -Son olarak izole diller teorisi tamamen palavradır. Hiç bir dil izole olamaz, İzole olabilmesi için ulaşılması zor bir adada gelişmesi gerekir. Buna rastgelen örnek dil sayısı çok azdır!

That is at least where the debate rests now.

R Lee a 6,000 mile wide sprachbund that covers 5 different language families is a joke. Clearly they have some genetic history. It’s just demonstrating that conclusively is a tall order.

@@irubjaejoong 6000 miles of flat prairie, with horsies. If it's a joke it's not a funny one.

Jens Kosch the “sprachbunde” is nearly all grammatical ... tell me any other widespread 2,000 years apart sprachbunde that shares so much grammatical basis ? someone demonstrate how a grammatical sprachbunde can cover 6,000 miles with little current or sustained historical contact. Korean has so little historical contact with Turkic .. what is the reason for the shared grammatical features ? But Japanese and Korean had sustained contact with Chinese... so much so that up to 70% of their lexicon is of Chinese origin... and Chinese left very little imprint, if any, on these languages’ grammar and structure. Yet the Altaic grammatical structure and patterns persist despite years of sustain Chinese influence and near isolation from the rest of the family (save some brushes with Mongolian) That’s one stubborn grammatical sprachbunde.

@@irubjaejoong if you think Chinese had little grammatical influence on Korean or Japanese, think again. That is demonstrably false.

Ah I remember when I had the chance to write essays a month in advance lol.

-me is also a suffix in Japanese like English "-ish" etc. For example: "hayame" (on the faster side), takame (a little higher), etc. Maybe they meant a flat fish, like a turbot or flounder. (which, the fish in question actually is), calling it something like "flatty", but writing with ateji, used for its sound: 目 to represent the sound "me" phonetically.

As you said Hirame can be translated to "flat(平)" +"eye(目)" when they are written in Kanji, yet if someone says "Hirame" in Japan, it usually means the fish Hirame. If we want to describe "flat eye"(which is not really the description we use but..), it is going to be like "平な目(Taira na me)" or "平べったい目"(Hirabettai me). If you say "I have Hirame" in Japanese, it only means you have the fish, Hirame.

So that means that japanese and korean make part of proto altaic family?

How could he not barely scratch the surface of such a complex, long-standing controversy about which tens of thousands of pages have been written in a twelve minute video?

@@KingoftheJuice18 By providing some example words and sentences 😄

@@smuecke I know that seems like a simple proposal to you, but it's actually very complex when you consider how much background you need to provide in order to illustrate something in a meaningful way (except to specialists--who don't need this video anyway).

"They say that X and Y, which mean these things, are related because of this reason. Here's why it doesn't work. Also, this other example."

@@smuecke The problem is that to a layman, it would require lots of time and details to explain. Take the example he used - pali being related to palgaɳi seems somewhat logical, but explaining why that is considered a borrowing and not a word with common ancestry, would take some time. And then the other part - why is hirame supposed to be related to pali? And even if he mentioned the various linguistic processes that supposedly led to this, the audience wouldn't be able to tell how plausible it is to assume these things, and where the hypothesis may break down. Examples mean little out of context or without the necessary knowledge about how to deal with them.

something i didn' realize ! :) thanks

Already been done by others. An expert on languages of India and Pakistan recognized the manuscriot as a holy text in a language of northern India.

What words are even shared in common that aren't loan words?

@@kekeke8988 In the case of ”Altaic”, I really don’t know. In general, though, cognates, words that are inherited from a common ancestor, like the English ”Holy” and the German ”Heilige”.

I have read an excellent book by a Jaoanese author who shows just how closely the vocabulary and grammar of Japanese and Korean are related. The ancestors of the Japanese had to pass through Korea to get to Japan, so it should not be surprising that they share similarities, however distantly related they may be.

@@vernicethompson4825 Similarities in grammar do not make for related languages.

@@haruzanfuucha Actually, yes, they do. In fact, grammar similarities are a key to language family relationships. More so than vocabulary.

Koreans did not just pop out in Korean peninsula out of nowhere right. Like they came from somewhere and the place is mostly likely Siberia or a bit west - like today's Mongolia. Korean grammar is so similar to Turkic languages, and there are some contextual similarities like Nose represents kind of self-proud in Korean like 코가 높다, and this is same in many Turkic languages too including Uzbek

@@boburzod Well that is pointless since if you say it like that, then we are all Africans

Could be King Kim Alji who increased Altaic influence in Korea. But i think it goes far before him simply because there is no contact between Japan and Altaic people in last two thousands years. Even then still Japanese also share pretty much exactly same grammar with Altaic languages. For example even the usage of tense suffixes is exactly same: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-FRMhkqovbwY.html I think there must be more contacts or migrations etc during unknown time period between 3-4 thousands years ago to cause such similarity.

@@sharpasacueball We don't share anything at all from our African past so your example doesn't make sense even a bit..

But not disprooven.

@@alexander1055 Because it was never proven in the first place. It's not a theory; it's a hypothesis, and one of the weakest, at that.

@@alexander1055 Buddy, you need to prove it first, before being disproven

there is wide controversy wether finno ugric and altaic are related. However the basic grammar and phonetic rules are identical though word origin is dubious

저는 엄마에게 한국어를 읽어 줬을 때, 엄마가 그것이 옛 터키어인 줄 알았어요! 아마도 그것은 우연이겠죠. 우리는 서양이 요구하는 대로 고립된 언어와 세계에서 가장 크고 아름다운 인도유럽어에 대해 믿습니다.

There's a reference that I read, and it states that the first and foremost ancient Austronesians were actually Hebrewophones, or Hebrew-speaking peoples. It does even state that "Malayo-Polynesian languages" or what I call "Nusantara-Southern Pacific Islands languages" were actually related to Paleo-Hebrew.

​@@hanggaraaryagunarencagutuh7072shut up

HALLO TURKICSH 😄

@@uuuby MERHABA ALMAN :D

Ihr habt ja kein englisches Wort für Sprachbund. Interessant. Weil ein Deutschamerikaner 33 Wörter aufgezählt hat, die ins Englische nicht übersetzt wurden. Wie zum Beispiel Kindergarten. Interessant ist auch, wenn man mal in die Vergangenheit zurückreist und sich das Altenglische anschaut und es mit altsächsisch (altniederdeutsch) vergleicht. Ein Wort im Altsächsischen gibt es auch bis heute im Englischen: that. Daraus wurde mit der Zeit dat und dann allmählich durch die Lautverschiebung das. Welche Wörter habt ihr noch, die ihr bisher nicht ins Englische übersetzt habt? 😄

​@@fabianbosch779 yeah, English has loanwords from German when it comes to the field of linguistics (urheimat, sprachbund, etc) because German linguists were influential back in the day

My theory is they displaced each other lmao, proto Turks displaced proto Mongolic people then Proto Mongol displaced proto Tunguistic people from the steeps and into Manchuria, then proto Tunguistic people misplaced proto Koreans who were living in Manchuria and moved to northern Korea and then the proto Koreans going further south displaced the proto Japanese 😂 which probably contributed to the sparchbound added by constant interaction in the following years.

Awesome detail

@@gabrielzanetti9558 nooo language isolate means no known related languages, not that they died out...if you go by that logic there would be way more language isolates than there are now.

Korea had in the western dark ages 3 different kingdoms that evidently spoke unrelated languages. Goguryeo from the north is where the names Korea and Joseon come from, and likely represents proto-Korean. Baekje towards the region of Seoul, Silla towards the southwest, and the region of Gaya, annexed by Silla, may have spoken languages related to the Wa/Yayoi and old Japanese. But history happened, and Baekje and Silla became part of Korea, and Koreanized completely. The Jomon actually probably spoke Ainu's ancestor, for thousands of years until the Wa/Yayoi colonized the mainland from the south.

@@Figgy5119 how are you supposed to know about a language that never left any traces behind though? We ain't omniscient.

@@chingizzhylkybayev8575 well, that's the question there, isn't it. Are we positive there are no traces left behind? It seems unlikely that there wouldn't be.

@@Figgy5119 are we positive about what? I'm talking about languages which do not exist. Are we positive that a language doesn't exist if it doesn't exist?

:( our languages are not so intriguing.. lol

@@etienne7930 lol i said that a year ago but i still stand by it, but i'm saying it not as someone from a country that speaks an Austronesian-descended language - which i am - but as a big-head language nerd :P

@@balaynganiyebe oh I see that's cool

@Ere K I am a Turk and it is easier for a Turk to learn Korean and Japanese than to learn English, Spanish or the languages ​​of our Neighbors Greek and Arabic.

@@hakancentoglu7872 bu hala altayca diye bir dil ailesi olduğunu kanıtlamaz.

@@kingdomofmapping1988 ben kanıtlar diye bir şey demedim zaten? sadece gramerimiz neredeyse aynı işte bunu kanıtlar.

@@hakancentoglu7872 Bu yorumu altay ile alakalı bir videonun altına yaptığın için böyle düşündüm. Ve ben de, Altay olduğunu kanıtlamaz dedim, yani sırf öğrenmek kolay diye, bunu kastediyosan.

BRUHHH YOU NİCK İS TURKİC :d HNHAAHHAHAHAH KHÖK = "KÖK" (TURKİC WORD) AND Teŋgri = TENGRİ ,,PLS DONT USE OUR LANGUAGE.

What is your mother tongue? Is it Finnish or Hungarian?

I have read some comments from Hungarians saying that Hungarian is close to japanese I had a look and I speak Japanese as a native language I don't see it I see more similarities between hindi and Latin

Idk but it would be awesome a crossover between them

@@viictor1309 Indeed, with Nativlang Paul doing a modern language and Nativlang going into its deep history... as an example!

It practically died in 1960, only nationalistic chauvinists believe that nonsense.

Fuck that shit from hungary, thats some turkish propaganda they used to find friends with because everyone hates them, us included

@@thomaswinwood Uralic and Indo-European also aren't related

@@marcoadmiralis_1497 No one cares about your friendship that's just a bunch of ultra-nationalists claiming that all people from steppes belong to one family and must form a new bigger country. But to hate an entire country for that bullcrap requires some more hostility and looks like you have it. I personally don't hate Hungarians and I find their language fascinating (even though it's hard to pronounce sometimes). I hope this hate between people end in time so that we can share things instead of trying to find new ways of killing each other.

@@44asdasd44 its hard to ignore people like most turks who have to mix and invent history for other peoples especially when they're this loud. i dont know how many turks have this obsession but they make it look like the majority does, im sorry for the people who are more intelligent even if they're the majority, but majority is rarely relevant especially in this cases. calling random people brothers, from countries that have been invaded by the so called brothers is the most annoying thing that can happen to people trying to enjoy their lives. and finally it is not these nationalists' job to tell unrelated individuals like indo europeans that hungarians, finns, or other ethnicities have this and that history becuase they might actually believe that, which honestly ruins our fame, so stop that

If they were bilingual

Expanding on Schachter Factor's remark, it obviously doesn't happen right when they come into contact. It requires a long-term cultural relationship and mutual understanding. Vowel harmony could enter a language that doesn't have it, they might change word order under the influence of the other language, or specific grammatical forms (imagine your language having various methods of constructing a plural form but under the influence of English, -s plurals becoming more and more frequent). I'm not sure how probable that is, but then, I'm also not sure where you got the idea from. Turkic and Mongolic languages borrowed words extensively from one another, not only grammar.

For Turkic-Mongolic extensive vocabulary borrowing seems to have happened since 1300. We can then assume that grammar borrowing happened simultaneously. This is the time of Genghis Khan and Middle Mongolian. We have documents written in Middle Mongolian. We can test the theory whether grammar borrowing happened simultaneously with vocabulary borrowing.

That is as we go back in time if we discover that vocabulary diverges but the grammar stays the same or similar between Turkic and Mongolian should we explain it by chance? We can also estimate the probability of this happening by chance, and the probability of having this happening for multiple languages.

@@EnginAtik To be honest, I would be _very_ surprised if exchange in vocabulary happened only after 1300. The language groups had close regional and cultural contact for millennia before that. The common political entity of Genghis Khan's empire may have contributed to the exchange of more obvious and well-known words but hat is only the surface.

Tarihçi misiniz? :)

@@yavuzsezer5785 Hayır, sadece dilbilime ilgim var :)