Aluminum Sailboat Pt 16 Lithium Battery - How They're Made | EP 237 

Why? What is wrong with diesel?

@@annsheridan12 It is not a viable longterm solution for us as a species. And as a sailor most of the time you use your engine is in and around port, used only short times. It is when used in a cold engine diesel is a problem because a cold engine is a dirty engine and if you can use electric power for the short hauls it saves a lot on both fuel and enviroment. This is where the hybrid is so good, bbecause it can run on both electricity and diesen, elec for the shortstuff and diesel for the long haul if you are stuck in a dead zone or such.

@@klasandersson7522 why not a viable long term solution? Read “fossil Future “

@@annsheridan12 Because as demand for it decreases, the cost will increase. The EU is banning diesel cars. A lot of the world will follow suit. Less cars = less diesel needed. Another thing - all it takes is a war in the 'wrong' country and the price of oil can double or triple. OPEC+ are also intent on keeping the price of oil high so they will throttle production to keep demand higher than supply = higher price. So even if overall global demand for oil goes down, all OPEC+ has to do is ensure that this decreased demand is slightly higher than supply and it raises prices.

@@klasandersson7522 perfectly viable and must be 80% of our energy needs as electricity is only 20%.

The screw drivers are torque sensing. Agree about the fingerprints, but probably doesn't matter too much. The fingerprints will still be there in 20 years, and the batteries will probably work about the same as new.

Glad you enjoyed it

Your scooter uses a different chemistry. LiFePo4 likes it warm. In fact, no charging is allowed in freezing conditions. Also, LiFePo4 is not prone to fire like cobalt based Lithium batteries.

Don’t forget the environmental consequences if the mining and production as well as the cost.

@@annsheridan12 Mining coal, is a one shot deal, when it's gone mine more. The processing of lithium is changing to meet stricter standards, but is a work in progress. There are now a few companies that recycle the different cells, so the emissions footprint is reducing. More recyclers are in the pipeline. Still a work in progress, but what isn't. If anyone figures there is no growing pains in an industry, they better get a grip.

@@carlthor91 fossil fuels are what make our civilization possible

@@annsheridan12 Yep, for now, they will not go away, but will reduce over time. Anyone who thinks they are here at the same level for all time, well, I have some land in Florida and a few bridges in NYC, that would be just right for them.😎

@@carlthor91 ass backwards, fossil fuels use will increase over time.

I’m glad you enjoyed the video and explanations

I am sure the electric engine will also act as an efficient and powerful generator. As well designed as everything looks, I expect in not too hot climate it should be possible to charge the battery bank from less than 20% to 80% in 2 hours. by running the combustion engine.

Short answer is no, not for LiFePO4 chemistry.

Battery costs are falling rapidly mostly due to electric vehicle economies of scale. Electric motors are already relatively inexpensive.

Pantaenius - one of the biggest boat insurance companies in the world - posted an article that LiFePOs are in no regard any more dangerous than lead acid batteries and when installed correctly do not increase the risk at all. So the whole topic is not that interesting any more. Get a really good battery (no - don‘t buy EVE cells and a Daly BMS… 😏) and that‘s it. 🤗

There is already a lithium standard in ABYC and ISO. If you are a commercial vessel there is the additional standard mention here. They don't mention how they satisfy the ABYC standard for an audible alarm prior to BMS shutdown. They also use passive balancing. Active balancing is far better. Passive balancers use mV to burn off amps from the highest volt cells. Active balance moves the amps from the highest cell to the lowest at Amp level not mA level.They also don't compress the cells. Every major cell manufacturer advices to compress cells. It's worth about an extra 1000 cycles on the life of the battery. On drop in batteries like these with the BMS in the battery case, heat is going to be an issue at high loads. The cells got hot at the positive terminal creating a temperature gradient across the cell. Add in a hot BMS and no ventilation and you have reduced life expectancy especially if using the cells for motive power where high loads exist for an hour or two

It's more efficient to drive a shaft directly from a diesel than to go through a generator and electric motor. Electric motors are highly efficient but do have some losses which simply don't happen with a mechanically direct drive.

@@LoanwordEggcorn Im afraid thats not true because the ICE engine is seldom running at its best ..even if you keep it maintained well look up this DIY proof of concept logging truck here on U tube by the Edison trucking company its called Topsy 😉🧙‍♂️ There are also dozens of Ice generator e powered boats and ships railway locos and heavy earth movers that use this approach and have done for decades because it gives many advantages not least around a 30% fuel saving .. the introduction of a modest size battery pack lets you operate fossil fuel free for hours if needed and allows you to regen under sail or braking on land and store solar or wind generator power . The term is Stoichiometric optimum... basically ICE engines dont like being made to run outside of this rev range and under changing loads. New light compact motor efficient rotary or opposed free piston generator multi fuel ICE motors like the liquid piston design or others only have to generate electricity at their... happy place ... the simpler more powerful torque laden sient e motor driving through a shaft or direct from a submerged pod doesnt care where the energy comes from or being stopped started run at silly speeds and flicked between forward and reverse plus the direct drive ICE cannot regenerate.. 🌍🧙‍♂️🌏 Theres a problem putting permanent magnet e motors between the ICE engine and the gearbox...why bother 🤷🏻‍♂️..or the drive.. and thats heat and vibration can cause degradation of the permanent magnets .. But there are alternative motors using no rare earths or even copper in their construction ... or you can stick a engine thats 20% of the size and quieter smoother cheaper and easier to maintain anywhere you like and only run it when its absolutely needed and still save on diesel. Its the way a lot of the Euro boat builders are going ....not just because of the pollution problems.

A battery is a collection of multiple cells. The blue cells are CALB from China. Almost all LiFePO4 cells are currently made in china.

Cooling is largely a non issue for this battery chemistry and electric motors, both of which are highly efficient and don't generate much heat.

The cells appear to be CALB made in China.

Most are doing similar things inside the battery. About the only thing unique is the extra thermal sensor.

I found a price for a super b 210 ahr at $4423. Since they have 20 batteries, looks like around $88,000 for the bank. EGADS!

@@mr.e7022 yes .. rich fools have to pay a lot))))

I found 340Ah for €4200 and I guess when you buy 15 it's cheaper though they only need 10 33kg X 10 though is still 330kg add the various ancillaries too. As for reliability some guys missed that this is a serial hybrid with a diesel engine and it's a sailing yacht anyway.

Almost all LiFePO4 cells are made in China.

Yes, but regardless of crimped or soldered oe welded there is an obstacle. To have a crimped connection the wore needs to be affixed to the cell somehow. I do not know of an individual cell that has a lug for a friction fit. Crimped all the wire ends you want but they all originate at a spot weld or solder joint at the individual cell.

They aren’t even using the 26650 here. And they are manufactured in many countries including Japan. There isn’t one factory for the world. And they are welding the battery connections at super b not soldering them.

In boats lithium iron phosphate is the standard for safety reasons. I don’t believe they come in 26650 form factor. For boats the cells are usually prismatic construction like the ones shown in the video, not cylindrical.

Super B makes different kinds of batteries. The cylindrical cells are used in the (combustion engine) starter battery format. The marine storage format uses prismatic cells.

BTW I'm not suggesting that creating content in order to get discounts on gear is a bad thing... I'm just saying it would be great if you were more clear about the relationship.

Lol!!! You’re joking right! With this system they not only have enough energy storage to use with solar but also they use the diesel mainly for propulsion and in some cases not much! It saves a lot of money plus they can use the electricity with many other devices directly on board

Obviously you don't know much about lithium battery chemistries.

@@laurapitre5797 Obviously. But I do know there is at least one car manufacturer who has warned people to park their electric cars outside so if it bursts into flames in the middle of the night it won't burn the house down.

different kind of lithium batteries. these are iron-based and extremely stable. iron-based lithium batteries have been used for residential solar storage - including at my house - for years without incident.

​@@gdholmfirth The LG cells used in the Chevy Bolt are not Lithium Iron Phosphate, which almost never have thermal runaway. BMS electronics are highly reliable. Vastly more reliable than something like an internal combustion engine, for example.

Maybe they dont want to contribute to global warming?

I suspect because they don't intend to use battery propulsion for any extended time (beyond manoeuvring from dock/buoy/anchor). My guess is that they expressed it as running range/time for simplicity within this episode. Paul explains their thinking and energy requirement calculation really well in a previous episode ("Building an ALUMINUM Sailboat Pt 8"). Essentially, their chosen battery capacity allows them to manoeuvre, cook, heat water, etc, without turning the engine/generator on as frequently - while relying on sails to cover ground. I don't doubt that there's an element of choosing newer technologies to generate more interesting content (and I imagine they'd be quite open about that). But interesting videos is why we're here (probably 🙂).

@@grigorbrowning my question is why all the highly expensive alternative energy systems when diesel will do the job efficiently as it has for generations.

@@annsheridan12 The idea is not to have a generator onboard. The diesel can provide propulsion only, charge only and both at the same time. The electric drive can provide propulsion and can be used to charge the battery underway. You get real redundancy with this setup. Now If you count in the solar power, you can see how this would create much more safety then just relying on a diesel for power and propulsion. Also, electric drive is almost silent, no diesel smell and you don't have to run your cold engine for a short time ever again.

@@dajobra The☀️ is NOT always available in the North to charge the batteries, nor forward motion either 🙄

ESD doesn't really matter today due to ground planes in most circuit boards.

Without the cert, insurance problems result.