The St. Paul depot used to have the first engine to run in Minnesota in its lobby. It was moved to the train Museum in Duluth, MN. St. Paul is my hometown an I'm by proud of it.
Well, when the route to Duluth is finally online you will be able to ride up to see it... This is a much needed service, now to get another couple trains each way daily on the schedule!
It’s always been strange riding the Empire Builder west of St Paul, as for that leg of the trip, seemingly only half of the coach seats were used. I’m so happy we now have more capacity on the MSP-CHI corridor, it’s going to be GREAT for all of the cities along the route!
I will take a half-full coach on the Empire Builder any day. Amtrak packs an entire coach to the limit from Milwaukee west to St. Paul. If you want to ride in a full coach so it doesn’t feel so strange then MILW to SP/M is for you! If the train boards at 11 p.m. in St. Paul, which it should, it may be light to St. Cloud but it picks up some riders there. Always picking up riders in North Dakota so the Builder has a decent load by Montana. I don’t see any increase in numbers stopping in towns along the way with the Borealis. I think the main advantage is the train operates in daylight-until winter.
See the guy at St. Paul Union Depot in the rainbow shirt and the black kilt? That was me! I rode in the 2nd coach all the way to Chicago. :) As a Minnesotan and St. Pauler, I'm pleased as punch to have another rail transit option to Chi Town. I go there frequently, and especially for the westbound, the Borealis will be a vast improvement, as it arrives at a more civilized hour than the Empire Builder's scheduled arrival of 10:30 PM which is often more like 11:00 or later.
Very nice. I travel Amtrak via Glenview, Illinois, All the Time. L.A. D C. Providence via NYC. Love it. Have not taken an Airplane in 11 years. Amtrak or Nothing - for me !
Flying is a hassle, especially post-9/11. If there's no train, I'll just drive my customary 200-300 miles/day and I'll get there when I get there. As a rough rule of thumb, any overnight train pre-Amtrak (Broadway, Century, DZ) translates to a two-day drive.
train and car are just too slow across country for the vacation time frames I have had. I will say though taking the train from Philadelphia to Boston, fsck driving and the airlines. No sitting traffic, no invasive security theater, and the people who built the Acela seating unlike aircraft engineers remembered that humans come standard with legs.
Reportedly Minnesota is buying Venture cars to replace the Horizon coaches on the Borealis. They just aren't ready yet (Venture cars will also be used on the NLX between Minneapolis & Duluth). Similar to how the route started running before the infrastructure improvements were done. They got it running early with what they had, but will be making improvements over time.
Minnesota came very late to the Venture car table and first intended them for the NLX well before the discussion of the Borealis was finished. My understanding is that NLX has priority over any Venture cars because they came out of that funding. Keep in mind that NLX only exists on paper and hasn't even reached the design stage for stations and infrastructure improvements needed let alone negotiated an agreement with BNSF to operate up to 4 round trip trains a day on the line. There also has been concern voiced about it's isolation from the rest of the Amtrak network but Minnesota is bound and determined to run it out of Target Field Station in Minneapolis instead of Union Depot in St Paul.
Although I do agree that it would be better to have the Borealis and NLX sharing at least one station, NLX isn't isolated from the Amtrak network as the Foley Blvd Station will serve not only the NLX, but also the Empire Builder, the North Coast Hiawatha (if/when that happens), and the Northstar. While this won't happen in the immediate future, efforts to extend the Borealis to Fargo are already underway (which would add Foley Blvd as a stop and give the two routes a shared station), plus one of the CID grants that was awarded to MnDOT this past December included funding to study the possibility of connecting Target Field and Union Depot via commuter rail (I don't expect anything to come of that, but who knows). There are only 67 railroad projects eligible for federal funding later this year and as of right now, NLX is the only one that has the state's share of the funding approved - which is a requirement for federal grant approval (having final design of the stations is not a requirement for approval of the federal grant - as far as I'm aware). Reaching an agreement with BNSF for using the corridor is a requirement, however, and remains the largest hurdle right now, and talks are in progress. If an agreement can be reached before October, the grant application deadline, it will likely receive approval later this year.
@@MaceQuantex I wish I shared your optimism... While I support the expansion of rail options, please be careful on where you think the status of these projects are currently. Yes, NLX is close. The BNSF Hinckley Subdivision just isn't seeing the freight traffic it once did so getting more trains really shouldn't be difficult but BNSF's relations with the State of Minnesota have never been very good (NorthStar St Cloud expansion and the Green Line SW extension as examples) Foley Blvd Station getting an Empire Builder stop is not likely even on Amtrak's radar since it is barely 30 minutes from St Paul and it's current design is basically a NorthStar infill station. Then there is the Borealis extension... Considering I have seen nothing from MNDoT on this possibility, I can't see this as anything more than an item on a railfan's wishlist. I'm not sure having a single train running commuter level service, which is what the Borealis is supposed to be, from Fargo to Chicago is a good idea. Running a train from Fargo to St Paul with a good buffer to meet a Borealis to continue the journey makes more sense especially since there will be pressure to fill in towns currently skipped by the Empire Builder. However, we couldn't even get Northstar extended to St Cloud...
@@tfmn218 I believe we are close on a lot of these things, with "close" being a relative term that could mean "ten years or more" in practice, lol. I also believe that there's any number of things that could go wrong and prevent any or all of these things from happening at all. I have personally heard from city officials in the northwest metro that Amtrak wants a long distance station between St. Paul and St. Cloud. At one point Anoka was trying to get it, but Amtrak ultimately rejected those plans for multiple reasons, a very large one being the state approving its portion of the funding for NLX which included a station at Foley Blvd, which is less than 8 miles from Anoka. I've personally spoken with State Representative Zach Stephenson (who represents Anoka and Coon Rapids) about the Foley Blvd station and he talked about the plans to have the Empire Builder stop there as well, and about how Foley Blvd is being viewed as a significant rail stop because, as things are currently configured, it will be the only station capable of serving the long distance and regional routes. So I'm fairly confident in Foley Blvd being a thing *eventually*. The extension of Borealis to Fargo was mentioned during the speeches at the kickoff festivities for the Borealis on May 21st (although I can't remember who made the comment), and there is support from city officials in the communities between St. Paul and Fargo for a second daily train (both the eastbound and westbound Empire Builder pass through these towns in the dead of night, so they're hoping for something useful) and All Aboard MN is lobbying the state to make it happen. In that same discussion with Rep. Stephenson he mentioned the state was looking at expanding rail transportation and among the things they were looking at were extending the Borealis or running a separate train between Fargo and St. Paul. Which one, if either, they'll decide to go with... Who knows? If it happens, it isn't happening in the next couple of years, that's for sure. And having read the Northstar Rail Corridor Post-Pandemic Study, I find it difficult to see how the future of that line is anything other than an extension to St. Cloud, and there are MetroTransit documents that show projected numbers on the funding of that extension and what the annual operating costs would be (which doesn't mean they're moving forward with it, just that they've done the math). But we'll have a clearer picture on all of this when the state publishes its updated rail plan later this year. But yes, I am optimistic... and thankfully, very patient.
I should add that the rebirth of the North Coast Hiawatha probably has a greater chance of happening than the NLX, the Borealis extension, and the Northstar extension. *That* would give the state the second daily train between Fargo & St. Paul, so I wouldn't be too surprised if the Borealis extension doesn't happen & the NCH route acts as the second train for the region.
Wonderful!! As a resident of the Twin Cities i am thrilled to have this new service, and will definitely use it as a replacement for driving to Chicago.
IS this really an improvement though? 12 hours from st paul to chicago is excessive, and a new train using old cars (compared to ventures) seems like we are going backwards
@@transitcaptain idk where i read 12 hours, 7 hr 45 doesnt seem too bad. But i dont think they should make any stops between MIL and CHI cause hiawatha already does
@@transitcaptain it would be nice if they could get the timing to under 6-7 hours or so, and then run a few more trains a day to be more competitive with driving.
Nice video. Glad to hear the name "Borealis" for the train. When I was teenager I called my Freelance train layout the "Aurora and Fort Wayne RR" and yup its crack streamliner was the "Borealis" or the "Aurora Borealis" My fictonal Chicago to Cincinnati train. Borealis would, slso, refer to a northern wind! My train utilized the Lowry streamline K4s and stainless steel passenger cars. Todays vetsion, an American models DGLE Lowey K4 and Streamline SS passenger cars lettered Borealis. I love seeing the Amtrak version pass though to St Paul with the real Aurora Borealis in the sky. A dream come true! May the train run for a long long time.Thank you!
This was an interesting update to Amtrak, I’m glad they added this service! This really helps move cars off the road, and it looked like a fun ride too! Great video man, glad you were able to dive into this!
I believe the reason why they call this new service the Borealis is because they plan on extending it to a place in Minnesota where you can see the Northern Lights!
I'm just outside Detroit Lakes and have seen them multiple times in the last couple years. We have a beautiful old Depot that the Empire Builder stops at every morning. Extending the Borealis route to North West Minnesota would compliment the Northeastern route to Duluth. I'm sure Moorhead will be there Northern terminal for Borealis, DL would be great for this area though.
@@lalakerspro Europeans still have old trains running in the Balkans and further east... Don't believe the hype that all of the European trains are brand new HSR trains either...
Nice to see you back on this side of the pond! 😉 The last train I took from Miami To Winter Haven was this exact model coach! I hope they have more new train lines in the south as more people are moving there!
First, quite instructive, Mr Simply, for those of us who've traveled often on trains in Europe, but seldom on trains in the US. Second, congratulations to you & your colleagues for your impressive production values!
Great trip, and thank you Justin for recording the debut of Amtrak Borealis. Hope the brand new coaches and locomotive can be attached in this train after running about few months. But for the first trip, is great.
Siemens has a lot of orders for new Venture coaches. Five years worth of construction... It maybe five years before the Borealis gets any new Venture coaches...
Love your videos - do more in the US so we can see the fun trips to take and that are not long and not that expensive! Good for us oldies! ;) thank you!
*Principal Skinner* : An Amtrak Borealis? At this time of year? At this time of day? In this part of the country? Localized entirely within the train? ......Can I ride it?
"Trains are ALWAYS late" I was hearing this several years BEFORE Amtrak. Milwaukee Road made up for it with the awesome Skytop parlor-observation and full-service dining cars.
Thanks for shining a light on this new service. I’m hoping to see direct service to/from Madison ASAP. For now I’ll be catching Borealis from Portage or Columbus.
That would be good, but the tracks into Madison are not that good -- would be very slow. Thank you, Scott Walker, for your boneheaded decision to kill Chicago - Milwaukee - Madison train service.
I can understand why a new service like this would premiere with old stock rather than the newer Venture coaches - Amtrak could be making use of older stock which has already been displaced by the newer Venture stock on other services. It's a way to not waste stock that while old is still serviceable, and as you've noted the seating in the coaches in still pretty comfortable. Plus if this new train doesn't take off as expected using old stock instead of investing in a brand-new train's worth of rolling stock would potentially reduce any losses. Once the train is established and ridership proves that the service is a success worth further investment Amtrak will likely reequip the train with new Venture stock. Amtrak doesn't exactly get a blank check from Congress and so making do with older stock seems logical to me.
Great video as always. It seems promising that a new service has finally been introduced, even if its technically just an extension of an existing one. But at Chicago, you walked right next to an Amtrak heritage painted locmotive and didn't comment at all. That's the most surprising part of the whole video 😅
Great video! I'm riding in BC tomorrow. I prefer the Horizon & Amfleet cars to the Ventures. If Amtrak were to change out the Venture seats for some with padding as ample as the legacy product I'd change my tune.
Nice video. Also nice to see Amtrak growing a little, and it seems the Borealis was well recieved. Maybe with time the train will get a companion, and with that the Chicago to the Twin Cities route will sort of be back to old days of Milwaukee Road, with 3 daily trains each way. But if some things are good, others are not. It would be great to have this train running at the same speeds that Milwaukee Road had back then; 100 Mph top speed to wich Today 's just 79 is a fair cry. But infrastucture was also better, with much more miles with 2 main tracks. With that these trains could be at least one hour faster. Maybe one day, that or maybe a little more (110 Mph) will be again possible. I also agree with you; with the Venture cars passenger experience would be much better
@@EzraM5as against Democrat values of ‘everything you’ve worked for is mine to give away to someone that can’t be bothered to work’ and ‘you are guilty of anything any other demographic decides you are guilty of even if you had no hand in it’ values?
I just rode the Venture coaches for the first time last week. The seats are absolutely awful. I'll take Amfleet and Horizon coaches any day just for that aspect.
Now all they need to do is upgrade the rail to high speed magnet like in Japan and then it will get real popular. Being able to go between St. Paul to Chicago in like 2 hours would be a god send and would greatly increase the economy of the two cities.
Thanks for sharing. I just rode in the Venture cars from Detroit to Chicago and back a few weeks ago and the seats are terrible for more than about two or three hours. Ny the time we arrived on either end, I wanted off. Not enough recline in the seats at all. People want to nap and those seats just dont allow it. I don't want to ride in a sport car seat to Chicago. Otherwise, they seem to ride smooth and the bathrooms are nice. Im really disappointed in the seating.
I guess the reason why they stuck with horizons and not ventures is because venture seats are basically glorified commuter seats unfit for a 7hr journey, whereas horizon seats are almost of amfleet quality being decades old recliners. But maybe Amtrak should have thought it through when they ordered new trains...
I want to ride it! The train looks great and shiny in that rain… But still remember a Burlington (now BNSF) route running West from Chicago then up along the Mississippi to the Twin Cities in the 1960s. Maybe it was twice daily - but I was a kid then…
I recall the Burlington Texas Zephyr and their Christmas holiday ski trains from Houston to Dallas to Amarillo to Colorado Springs to Denver... I also recall the Burlington T-bone steak in the diner between Dallas and Houston... Amtrak should be prosecuted for NOT having a daily train from Dallas and Houston, the largest crime in railroad history! I want all of the Texas Zephyr route back in service... Amtrak, pull your head out of your ass... The second largest populated state in the union should have triple the Amtrak services it has currently...
That goes through the town I live in. The trouble with train service is that it is very slow. We need high spped rail for those distances. I grew up in the UK and in the 80's the trains could go 125mph. Don't think the US has ever been that high and 125, frankly not that great anymore either,
now all they need to do is extend the line to duluth minn. i love the st. paul union depot, i spent many hours there as a kid watching the trains come and go. my great grandpa was the station master long ago.
Brilliant. Finally MN has more rail capacity but is nowhere as close to SBB which I frequent during summer months. How did you get to MN in the first place? Did you fly in?
I was on that route, the Borealis, on May 23rd, from Chicago to St. Paul. We got to South St. Paul, almost there, and our arrival in downtown St. Paul was delayed by 2 hours due to a stopped freight train ahead. I may take the bus the next time 😮
In the mid 1990s, federal budget cutbacks resulted in states having to fund many train routes. Amtrak Midwest was created to manage state sponsored train in Illinois, Michigan, Wisconsin, Minnesota, and Missouri and given its own fleet. Amtrak California was the same, and in the pacific northwest, states of Oregon and Washington got a hybrid where they managed fleet but the Cascades remains a Amtrak train. Some years ago, Amtrak California and Amtrak Midwest placed a joint order for new modern trains from asia. When at last minute, these trains could not meet FRA standards that require train be heavy, slow and built like freight train, there was a deadline to spend the money and the only FRA train availabel at the time were the cars produced by Siemens for Brightline ( older Viaggios downgraded to meet FRA standards). So Amtrak California and Midwest placed that order. (and techhically 2 separate orders since their configs are different). They have had a LOT of difficulty getting those Siemens trains to be reliable and until recently, didn't have a single business class or café car ready for service. Amtrak itself placed orders for such Venture cars that will be branded as "Airo" but none received yet (but Amtrak does have Charger locos for long distance trains which it still operates under federal budget). So when Amtrak Midwest had to start the service to Minniapolis/St-Paul, it had to draw from its own fleet which is mostly Horizon Cars. Amtrak had placed orders for Amfleet 1 and Amfleet 2 with Budd. But by the time it needed more, Budd was gone and its designs had been bought by Bombardier which was building Comet commuter cars for various agencies. Amtrak ordered a bunch of them with a Amtrak config inside and they wer called Horizon. That is all that was available at the time. Amtrak has given those to those state services such as Midwest, California and now the Pacific Northwest. (Oregon/Washington had managed to order modern/light Talgo trainsets and got FRA exemption, but after a derailment, politicians intervened and called these foreig imports unsafe and the Cascades was downgraded to Horizon, as well as 1 or 2 remaining all-steel heavy Talgos that Talgo had begun to build in USA to meet FRA stadards before contract was cancelled and Talgo told the USA to get lost after losing so much money building a USA specific plant and USA specific train model with USA spefic "made in USA" components. ) In december 2018, the FRA relented and updated its rules to allow certain odern trains on certain lines with manu conditions (this was after Amtrak had already ordered Pendolinos coachs pulled by TGV-M locos and branded as Avelia Liberty so FRA had to find a way to approve those).
The Midwest Venture stock was purchased by the states in which they run. Minnesota was not one of those states. As of this writing there are no additions to the original 88 Midwest fleet.
I’m glad that the Borealis is using Horizons. St. Paul to Chicago would be a long trip in the Venture cars, which are absolutely a downgrade in comfort compared to Horizons and Amfleets!
Metrolink cars are getting rebuild by talgo in Milwaukee. Metrolink rightfully has amtrak move them as the cars brakes don't play nicely with the typical freight release setup and class 1s love giving passenger cars flat wheels.
Haha apparently I watch enough Simply Railway videos to have gotten to know Thibault's fashion style 🤣 when it got to the part of the video where he sat in the seat, I actually said out loud to myself "hmm what is he wearing?" Lol of course he looked different, because it wasn't him!
Still don’t comprehend why the line doesn’t go directly through Madison. To be a fly on the wall in the back room when the original EB route bypassed Madison.
Nice video as always. I took the San Joaquins from Oakland to Bakersfield. 7 hours in new Venture cars. Modern, yes, but meh... not specially comfortable for longer rides, I should say.
12:04 the Metrolink cars are being rebuilt at the Talgo factory in Milwaukee. Talgo US is mostly in the buisness of rebuilding passenger trains after they reopened in 2016. After the Cascades crash, its seems they won't be building new Talgo trainsets, atleast not for the forseeable future
Thank you for this excellent video. The delivery of new Venture cars continues to be very slow, and whilst the Amfleet and Horizon cars are showing their age, the refurbished interiors with the new leather seats is really good. I find the Venture cars very disappointing, with the seat cushions far too firm, and one can only hope that before they reach the East, and especially the Florida services, Amtrak specify more comfortable seats. I do hope the Borealis service is a huge success !
I believe the reason there isn’t an ALC-42 leading is because this would be considered a regional service and the ALC-42’s are designated for the long-distance routes.
I'll warm up to the Venture cars when they put more comfortable seats in them. Until then, this consist is the best option. I'm getting tired of the Siemens glazing. Old doesn't necessarily equal bad bro.
