One of the miseries of my life is having to witness the constant hypocrisy of Congress demanding that Amtrak magically make passenger rail a profit-making business, and yet refusing to allow Amtrak to do anything that could generate net earnings. The Network Growth Strategy Era is probably the most spectacular example.
Since the Reagan and Clinton era Congress has obsessed about balanced budgets and debt reduction and whatever other excuses they can pull. The fact they don't realize that investment drives profit, not the other way around is equal parts sad and destructive to projects. Amtrak would've been three times larger and effective if it weren't for the govs incessant demand for "monie make!!" when they own the damn Mint. It's no wonder people are moving back to Keynesian systems now.
@@trashrabbit69- Railways in the rest of the world aren't expected to be profitable - except for tourist lines. They are the alternative to covering the landscape with more and more highways and filling the air with more aircraft.
Another comparison - what if sports teams actually paid for their stadiums instead of taxpayers? Or, if the airlines had to build and operate airports they use? Amtrak - through not much fault of its own - is a national joke. Even Morocco has high-speed (up to 200 mph) trains these days!!
Actually if it weren't for the bankruptcy of Conrail, Amtrak would never have been created. The entire nation outside the northeast corridor lost their passenger trains with just a few exceptions when the US Government itself, yes the US Postal Service, terminated the private railroads mail contracts during the 1960s. The US Postal Service, along with passengers as well, preferred flying long distances and driving short distances. Long gone are the days of regional passenger trains with several to a dozen mail cars with one coach. This is the tale of the demise of passenger trains in North Texas, but this is the same story nationwide. ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-wj4k8qDAB8I.html
@@ronclark9724 that is completely untrue. Amtrak was founded in 1971, long before Conrail was even founded. Conrail' also never went bankrupt. They were an incredibly successful railroad and sold themselves to NS and CSX
There's fantastic production quality here. I especially appreciate the professionally recorded narration and editing. It honestly reminds me of "Company Man" on RU-vid. Great work! Different from anyone else on RU-vid. Just subscribed!
I got to ride that train...took a Thruway Bus to Janesville, spent the night at a hotel nearby and then rode the train the next day back to Chicago. For a little over 30 years I've been trying to ride every Amtrak route and the day I rode this train, it had a good passenger load. Great video!
Southern Pacific was famous for installing "Automat Cars" to DISCOURAGE people from buying train tickets. If that didn't work, they made passengers ride with the conductor in a caboose.
Hannah Miyamoto And then just for fun, the Automats were frequently deferred of maintenance, and you’d end up having to give the attendant money and they’d open up the machine to serve you.
I mean DSB in Denmark seems to think that, as their plan seems to be adding vending machines onto their future Intercity trains. But people here would definitely prefer a trolley service or a full on kiosk again.
I live in mansion Wisconsin and if they built the train to go there you would definitely see way more people ride the train. We have been asking for a passenger train to Chicago for many years
Congress mandated that Amtrak be financially independent? Kind of unfair considering it's competing with road infrastructure which is billions in the hole and never mandated or even expected to finance itself.
Congress still beats that drum today. I assume it's a back-door attempt to kill Amtrak which would free up more subsidy money for the airline industry. I wonder what the reaction would be if the general public of the US knew that their federal government spent more per passenger mile on the airline industry than Amtrak.
Well this explains why I would always see signs for the Zenda Amtrak station on the way to Lake Geneva despite never seeing an Amtrak train ever on that line.
Interesting video, for those that think Wisconsin gets the shaft. The previous governor of the state, and legislature would not participate in the Amtrak proposal with funding, to extend Hiawatha Service to Madison. Then possibly on to the Twin Cities. When they, Wisconsin Politicians, refused to participate. The money allotted to it was used to upgrade the Chicago St Louis line to higher speeds. Difference being the state of Illinois willingness to participate with Amtrak for service upgrades. Some states recognize the need for rail service.
I never use to feel this way but I am really happy to live in Chicago suburbs just for all the rail-fanning and rail history and of course the Union railway museum
It's a shame that Amtrak couldn't bring back express freight service nowadays to try and boost profits. That would be bad ass to see more of those mixed trains from the 90's and early 2000's!
Profits should never be the end goal of any rail operator, providing good service is number one. Closing down routes cause they aren't making money is the worst reason to close down a route
@@sargentrowell81 When it really shouldn’t be, especially when the US throws billions, no, Trillions into roads and highways with NO profitability at all, same with Corporate bailouts and subsidies, even to tax dodging companies that haven’t paid the taxes they owe in decades!
@@sargentrowell81 This isn’t a discussion about Amtrak being self sufficient for its own sake, it’s about The US Government not wanting to fund Passenger Rail since it goes against the Car Lobbied vision of American Freedom, even though that European and Chinese styled rail networks give riders and citizens way more freedom, as well as saving them money and reducing carbon footprint
This is so cool, I never knew that the small town my father grew up in, in southern Wisconsin had an Amtrak train that used to run through and stop semi-nearby
please make more videos just like this. one of the best parts of railfanning is the feeling when you encounter out-of-the-ordinary trains and equipment. this video hit that exact spot for me, and I want to watch it again.
We need a service from Toledo to Detroit. I feel like that would actually earn revenue because so much commerce and traveling happens between our cities. Maybe call it like "Erie Limited" or something idk. Probably not gonna happen though. Amtrak seems to have moved on from our once great railhub in Toledo.
Amtrak actually used to run a train between Toledo and Detroit: The Lake Cities, Trains 352 and 353. The train would turn south and take the former NYC trackage down to Toledo instead of going north to Pontiac. The problem was that running was slow on those tracks, most likely due to other freight trains using the line, and Amtrak ended up rerouting it to Pontiac as a result. I too would like to see a restoration of service between Toledo and Detroit. From personal observations, there doesn't appear to be an insane amount of traffic these days, and it'd give Michigan travelers a chance to connect with the Lakeshore and Capitol Limiteds without having to backtrack all the way to Chicago.
I drove freight by truck along that route, and there's not much good trackage between Toledo and Detroit. There's too much freight traffic running up and down that line to really accommodate passenger service. It is a nice thought though.
I'm amazed this is the first I have heard of this train. I live in Hartford, WI, work at the museum the 1003 is kept, and lived in Northeast Illinois when that train actually ran.
Passenger trains had been unprofitable since before WWII. Long distance trains have a large amount of nonrevenue space - baggage cars, dining cars, lounge cars, observation cars. They are expensive to buy/lease, expensive to maintain, expensive to operate yet bring in $0. Railway cars are enormously heavy for their size compared to buses and trucks as every car has to be strong enough to withstand a minimum of 350,000# (160 tonnes) pulling and pushing force without any damage or distortion whatever. They also have to be designed to prevent telescoping or buckling if the front of the train stops suddenly, as in a head-on collision with another train. This is a demand not placed on any other kind of transportation vehicles.
To be fair Amtrak doesn't own any railroad tracks so CSX, NS, and BNSF isn't picking on Amtrak because Amtrak doesn't own the railroad tracks. Amtrak only owns the northwest corridor
Is it possible for you to do a video dedicated to the whole mail and express phase at Amtrak? Trains back in those days were interesting to say the least. The "Three Rivers" was practically a freight train in its own right, as you showed with the "Skyline Connection" proposal.
I didn't even know about this train until its last weekend. I boarded in Zenda and spent the day in Chicago. I was late getting back to Union Station, so i didn't have time for a cigarette before the train left. There were only a couple of passengers, so I chatted with the conductor and mentioned that i could really use a smoke. He told me to go into the empty baggage car and open the back door and have at it. I sat in the doorway in the open air as i watched Chicago's night skyline slip away into the distance. Good memories.
Thank you for an interesting video, I thought I was an good and fairly knowledgeable Amtrak fan till now. I Never knew about the Lake County Limited and I lived in the Chicago and suburbs for 60 years before moving in the mid 2000's. I am sure I would have taken one ride had I known. Your music choices, just a perfect pick.
And since then, Wisconsin’s only real passenger hopes have been the few additional Hiawathas that Illinois would let us add and the planned Minneapolis-Chicago service. Any chance of a video covering the Minneapolis-Duluth Amtrak service at all?
the wsor trackage is actually owned by the state of wisconsin actually. i grew up about 5 minutes south of the wsor at spring grove, il. the f40s were banned in janesville because of their loud hep generators but would be on the trains anyhow.
BNSF made a great point. Amtrak was trying to haul what all the freight roads were equipped to carry, when amtrak is supposed to be "passenger only" in a sense. I've said it before, and I'll say it again, your editing style suddenly changed into this incredibly fun and engaging style. I love it!
There was also a similar operation from Chicago to Louisville, KY called 'Kentucky Cardinal' but it lasted two years longer than the LCL. It also suffered from many of the same problems as befell the Lake Country Limited.
Im so happy to see you continuing work on these projects with such great editing and research. Its like wendover for trains and I cant get enough of it. Keep it up my dood !
The platform in Janesville was actually located at the edge of the city, in a remote area on a rural road. Few people knew about the service, although Amtrak and Wisconsin and Southern Railroad held a large publicity event in the late spring or early summer. The nearest hotel and restaurant would be a one mile walk along an unlighted, rural road. It was, essentially ''in the sticks''. Even though the train came all the way to the rail yard near downtown to overnight, Amtrak thought it was too much trouble to have a passenger station downtown. (My understanding is that it was an issue of time on the schedule. also, The yard was busy with freight traffic.) What really killed the service, I believe was the embargo due to the severe winter. They seemed to lose whatever freight business they had. Well done video. Glad to find it.
Of course freight railroads objected to Amtrak hauling express boxcars. Makes perfect sense, since we know how hard freight railroads are working to capture LCL express and mail traffic. /s
I live in Glenview. Right near my house there is this old abandoned line that use to run up to Milwaukee. I believe it was called the Chicago & Milwaukee North Shore line or something like that. I go there often to take pictures of the tracks
Amtrak had another short lived mixed train. It was named the "Kentucky Cardinal". It ran from Chicago, Illinois to Louisville, Kentucky. It had similar track problems to the Lake Country limited and it had speed limits of 30 MPH in some cases when track was really bad. The only difference between the Lake Country Limited and the Kentucky Cardinal is that the Kentucky Cardinal lasted 4 years instead of 1. The Kentucky Cardinal operates from 1999 to 2003.
Technically metra UP north tracks are owned by Union Pacific. The whole line is run by UP with UP staff for metra and using leased Metra equipment and uniforms.
I was born and raised in Janesville, WI...I remember a lot of Milwaukee Road freight and a nice railway roundhouse that is or was located there? I have not been there for many years now.
The service was actually cancelled in March of 2001. They had to give a six month notice, during which they dropped from daily service to one round trip per week. 9/11 was not a factor.
Would be interesting for u to do a video on the Kentucky Cardinal, as it was also a short distance passenger train to Louisville that attempted to capitalize off of freight and mail competition with the UPS worldport air hub in Louisville, as well as meeting the same demise (low passenger count due to 30 mph track limits between Indianapolis and Louisville)
Probably one of the easiest Amtrak train consists to make in Ho scale. I mean you need 1 engine, 2 coaches (or one coach and one cafe), 1 one express boxcar, and 2 articulated roadrailers.
There was an MR article about easily modeled trains. Amtrak had, and might still have, not sure off the top of my head, a Portland connecting train to the Empire Builder which is only a couple Superliner cars.
@@modelrailpreservation I'm pretty sure you're talking about the "Pioneer." An all coach train that ran from Salt Lake City, later Denver, to Seattle. The Pioneer and it's sister train the Ogden-Los Angeles (via Las Vegas) "Desert Wind" were connecting trains to the California Zephyr that ran as seperate shorter trains which usually ran with around 4-5 Superliners till both trains ended in 1997. I say the Lake Country Limited is easier, and probably cheaper as well, because A: All cars, with the exception of Amtrak Roadrailers, are all easily sourcable (as of me replying), and B: all for pretty reasonabley cheap prices. Superliners on the other hand, while the Kato ones are reasonably priced (on online retailers for about 55usd), they aren't as cheap as the Walthers MHCs and coming horizons. And the Budd baggage cars, 😣 those are a nightmare to try to find nowadays.
Why the Railroads hate Amtrak is cause Amtrak can Guarantee getting Mail contracts and Mail Contracts mean they have to yield to Amtrak. Honestly if we want Amtrak to be successful one of two things needs to happen; 1. The Railroads have to be made to build Amtrak it's own track Network. (this can be used as a Tax deduction scheme making the Railroads not pay taxes to build this out) (THis program may even cause the Railroads to kick into high gear revamping the Nation Networks to be Class 7+ cause they'll not have to pay Taxes while everything was under construction.) 2. all Mail Freight has to be through and on every Train Amtrak runs and with no limitations. And The railroads would hate it but they chose to give up Passenger service cause "declining number and no more Mail runs". And if both happened then I'd suggest merging Amtrak with the USPS. The stupid thing was not letting Conrail and Amtrak merge if they were going to do Mix traffic.
It would be nice if this train still existed, it would be helpful to me, since there are both Chuck E. Cheese's in Janesville and Madison, if only they did good planning and things
Yes, I recall seeing the Empire Builder only having a few Merchandise Handling Cars! Did Amtrak end up selling the Merchandise Handing Cars to the freight railroads?
Well, it might not work out IRL, but theres nothing stopping me from doing that in a transport sim like OpenTTD. I wonder if I even put those towns in my USA 4K map between Chicago and Madison.
