I just want to point out Morphologis always has some amazing cinematic views. Having other ships in the scene really shows the true scale of these stations and requires a level of coordination and effort few other RU-vidrs put in. Kudos to all those involved. I salute you all. o7
i don't play sc and don't really intend to, but i just wanted to say i really like watching your vids. you can't deny this game looks beautiful, and you clearly put a lot of work into getting those awesome shots
Kieron Rana the games looks amazing but it has so many bugs I wouldn’t play until at least beta trust me I was so hyped to play and then all the bugs ruined it for me but don’t let me stop you from playing this is just my own opinion 👍
@@sexynail6897 my dude, you must have misread. i do not intend to play this game. i'm perfectly happy owning noobs in battlefield. i just like looking at this game, especially in morphs' vids. thanks for the advice anyway tho :)
Much of what we have in Star Citizen is the first iteration on a mechanic or graphical feature when it first comes out. These seem to improve with slight tweaks or larger re-works as subsequent patches come online. I am hoping that the R&R stations will be the same and that they will be refined over time. I do know that the game devs watch your videos and so I think they will take your criticism to heart.
From what I understand, this is basically Station Tech v2 and will be replaced with Station Tech v3/v4/etc as they work on it and strive to make stations use more of the available interior space defined by the exterior shape and size.
I had exactly the same feeling the first time I went into a space station in 3.8: you don't know where you are, where you can get to and how to get there. The same happened before, actually, but they were much, much smaller hence it was much easier to get your way around it You, Morphologis, make a very good case on how to improve that but I'd add something else from the IT perspective: rules that define which boxes can be next to which ones (a.k.a. the rules that procedurally generate the stations by matching boxes together). For instance, boxes with food places should be stacked up close to each other, around a central place (tagged as such) and further away as possible from habitation modules, or lifts coming from hangars and pods should all end up in a lobby, which would be a box marked as such. Actually, I'd like to think that they probably already have such rules (or rulesets) and it will be a case of improving them patch after patch and then regenerate the stations the same way the recreated the planets and moons again when applying planetary tech v4. All in all, good review, Morph, as always. Khemsa out.
They do have rules, check out ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-gu0zrEacfuI.html ... and I agree, hopefully they will be iterating on the rules and improving them.
The system of tagging you describe makes me think of city skylines and sim city style layout systems, and that sounds pretty good to me, especially if they open it up later to modders and orgs making their own cities / Stations down the road
I'm curious about the circular design that he's talking about though... I would guess that right now they spawn everything in a grid and it's a much easier thing to do then spawn things in a circular grid...
All good points. I'd like to add a couple more: - Circular stations, or wheel-shaped, aren't new. The first was proposed in 1903, well before Star Wars. Of course, these were rotating to produce artificial gravity. SC has artificial gravity by other means so the stations don't have to rotate. - More observation lounges/decks with larger windows. Especially where there would be an interesting view or ship traffic or some other activity. There is always the next iteration of station creation tools.
Morphologis Lucas commissioned him to do some of the original pre-production art that they production designers later used as inspiration. kitbashed.com/blog/john-berkey
Just a thought: Some spaces are weird. Airports, train stations, highway rest stops. They are liminal spaces, not here not there. Not intended for you to stay there, but to pass through. They are alienating. In a weird way, the automated way these stations are generated mimics that for me. But, in the end, I agree. The stations are too random. I love the hubs, they are beautifully designed. Your idea to put the hub directly next to the customs/elevator area is really good, preferably with big panorama windows. Group the other parts around that. After all, with the elevator access, they don't really have to have a spacial relation to the exterior. Would be an extra bonus if they had, though. One small detail I'd really like to have is no-access areas. Just a closed gate where you'd need the right papers to get into the parts of the station reserved for workers and residents. Currently, there is no reason for the stations being so big. It would only be a small detail, sure, but it might go a long way.
That thing about having closed doors and other "restricted access" entryways and connections is a very astute observation. It may go a long way into making interior spaces feel "larger" without actually making them so. Especially considering how colossal stations are from the outside.
I expect down the road elements of this will remain but higher traffic areas / Hubs will likely get more cleaned up and streamlined more. As you said some areas in real life reflect that "not intended to stay" rational and I kinda like to see the far flung lesser stations reflect that, maybe with some signs of hodge-podge renovations and Addons to hint at the age and erratic use of an old Station
@@benhermes5954 You wouldn't be employable. You also would be extremely unaware of the things advances in science have made possible. Structures today are far more advanced than before.
@Zane Zuccaro Procedural generation as a concept is not bad. It's actually really capable. We just need more complex equations. We are also limited by the performance of today's hardware in terms of real time procedural generation.
@@Dumb-Comment There's also a lot of people less qualified, and everyone more qualified than him probably isn't on RU-vid reviewing video game space ships.
The PU needs flight schools where prospective pilots can learn to fly in atmo and space far away from civilians. Perhaps on one of the system's moons where we can easily ferry people to.
I normally tell my new pilot friends to goto Arena Commander in solo no enemy mode to practice. Learn how the ship handles and what buttons do what things. Costs nothing to crash a ship there.
And if their ships still work, you bet they're blasting outta there, while you're left in a wreck with nothing. Not even their insurance info, irresponsible bastards like that shouldn't be flying ships
This series is honestly amazing. As I get older I value the knowledge of others and i have no intention of being an architect, so getting these hits of another fields knowledge in a clear and concise but also entertaining way is the most value for my time I've had for any video on RU-vid... or any class I took in college tbh
They touched on the interior vs exterior connection problem in a recent video, it seems the station interiors are basically made the same way caves are, they're procedural and they only have one connection point to the exterior (for now at least) making the interior kinda just an interior cave inside the interior volume of the station, which I find pretty lackluster because it doesn't properly convey that connection between interior and exterior, would make more sense to me instead of the interior being basically randomized have a blank default interior for each exterior station section and make the interior mostly be additional walls, signs etc. And as you said the layouts should make some kind of sense. The current approach to station interiors doesn't make sense to me, it's like some long gone super advanced species for some reason put solid metal donuts into space, and we later found them and started digging out the interior using robots that use a random blueprint for what room to build next, but if that room intersects the exterior or another room it shuffles the blueprints again. The stations if purpose built by people would be more like an empty mall building companies could rent interior space in to set up shops and offices etc maybe with some special layouts intended for specific companies that partnered with the station building company etc, like astro armada could request one station to have a multi-story centrally located ship store you kinda have to go through to get anywhere.
The first thing I thought of was that they are a maze and verry hard to find things in if you are there for the first time indeed. Glad I am not the only one thinking this!
Excellent video, you've managed to articulate exactly how I feel about the stations interior and communicate how spatial navigation isn't just signage or directions but how the space is organised and programmatically laid out in a meaningful manner. Thank you.
I NEVER thought of Star Wars when i saw these stations, i just thought of Homeworld (the game). These stations and the Pioneer and other Crusader Industries ships, have a very strong Homeworld-esque aesthetic to them, with the flat panels, large shapes and clear colors.
as an architecture major and a fellow nerd (although not much of a gamer) i love this series and i'm seriously considering subbing only because of this
I really appreciate it when artists acknowledge that everyone's voice counts. All the time I spend writing, and I see writers talk down to people who don't. Storytelling and art are intuitive processes that anyone can contribute to. When they make the effort, they almost always have something to offer - and they may require some help finding the words, but it's still useful. Agree with you about the station layouts. It seems like it could be solved with some more rules. "Y can only connect to X or Z." If I was in their shoes, what I would do is focus on building a wide variety of interesting hubs and connecting pieces. Then use the tech they have for randomizing items in rooms to try and milk variety out of a small handful of store layouts (explained away as modular prefab structures that companies just attach to the station). I would think that with clever use of textures, lighting, and arrangement of furniture/props, you could fool people into thinking the shops were in rooms of different shapes or sizes - or at least make the repetition of rooms across station much less noticeable.
Loved the video and it seemed to echo my thoughts exactly. The first time I visited a space station I got lost. The next few times after that were hardly any better so it stands that they could use some work. They did however serve their purpose but it was hardly an enjoyable experience trying to find where I needed to be. XD Great Video, Morph.
Just a comment on the station interiors: You mention the "tripping hazard" issue, and honestly, I think this needs more attention. How is it that in the far future, mankind has abandoned the idea of workplace and public space safety? is there no space-borne equivalent to the American "OSHA"? (Occupational Safety and Health Administration) It's not just an issue in the stations, but in the ships too. While it may look cool, no human station or ship designer would actually design a station or a ship to have random floor gaps and cables strewn across walkways. If they did, the lawsuits would quickly bankrupt them. I think there are plenty of ways to use design language and expression through material selection and surface appearance that can make something look futuristic while still retaining a practical and usable appearance that any person would not think twice about walking across or working in. For me, there is nothing more immersion breaking than walking along and seeing a cable apparently glued down to the floor across a catwalk instead of properly run through a cable guide UNDER the catwalk as any sensible ship builder would do. The same goes for pointlessly large gaps at every single door. Why would you not design the door to have a flap that drops down to cover the gap as the door slides open? It is just crazy to think that such an "ankle breaker" is allowed to be on a station people are supposed to be living on. I get that they want to provide, in some cases, a sense of "short term fixes" and "emergency cables", but in ostensibly mainline production ships and stations it doesn't make sense. How ridiculous to go to the trade show and walk in to a brand new show ship and see cables snaking across the floor? Who designs such a ridiculous thing? Or doors with foot-swallowing gaps in spaces that are supposed to be occupied by people? Ultimately, these kinds of things, while intended to create an atmosphere, are actually counter-productive and serve to break immersion rather than enhance it.
Because it looks cool. Imagine being qualified for space flight but being overly cautious of a trip hazard. If it's high end, it gets the polish. Otherwise, the designers consciously make it feel not polished. It's meant to feel like corners were cut. Can you imagine how expensive building this would be? Any cut corners, consistently, could save you millions. Easy solution, have landing there be you signing over your legal rights.
@@statiq1941 have you ever seen an image of a shuttle launch gantry? There are warning stickers all over everything. Safety is HUGE in the space business because doing unsafe things gets people killed. The job is dangerous enough without risking breaking an ankle or your noggin in the process.
@@Wearyman Have you ever seen a picture of the future? No? Me neither. I forgot current world excessively influences the future in a way that makes it significantly more boring. I'd go so far as to say that industrial equipment is normally pretty rife with warnings. I'd then compare future industrial gear (RSI, ARGO) and their relative lack of warnings to be considered the future norm for safety as established by years of design language
@@anthonygianettino2557 but that's inexcusably the reason for eye catching design. They're not going to start quoting "post post modernism and neo industrialist" as their design inspiration. They're just going to say, "We thought that using a colour scheme of purple and pink we'd raise the idea of cyberpunk and it looks cool."
These videos just get better and better. I feel like I'm taking a very basic level intro architecture course -- except all the examples are from my favorite game. Beautiful visuals meet well-explained and easy to understand information, and all wrapped up in an entertaining package. It's really an incredible product you've made here. Keep it up! I and so many others love it!
Ah I remember when you were taking the footage for this video! Looks amazing Morph. So glad ya started loving the Tali, one of my favorite ships especially for multi crew.
The thing that disappoint me the most about Star Citizen overall spatial design (as "in space") is how afraid they seem to play with different plans of gravity and/or the lack of it, and take it into account in their design language. I mean, in this future, they clearly have the technology to generate gravity at will. Which would normally mean that the very notion of "ground " can be played with. Just imagine : You are on a terrace, in one of those big hub area, then you raise your head and there is people walking on the ceiling. Then, one of your crew member is calling you from the other side, telling you the ship is ready. He is walking on the wall, perpendicular to you. He actually has to raise his head to see you. And the craziest thing is that YOU CAN GO THERE ! This is what Star Citizen is all about. Plus, it would be amazing visuals that are not afraid to mess with your head. This is what space means to me : disorientation. Well, of course, it would need to be organized still but in a new way. Take what is familiar and adapt it to the new constraints of space.
Garance yeah but they need a scientific explanation for it. Did you remarked that everything on star citizen is well researched and mostly real, something that could happen. Even the space station, with this circular design which in theory creates gravity when turning itself like earth. Your idea would be cool but in my opinion not realistic.
On the other hand, the culture presented, at least in the UEE (more on this later), is one that still predominantly based on planets and other large rocky celestial objects). Thus the vast majority of the UEE population will have spent a significant amount of time, if not born and raised there, in places with predictably simple gravity wells. Therefore, unless there is a substantial overriding reason for having unusual or arbitrarily changing gravity (e.g. helps a functional purpose, infrastructure is shoddy or failing, an eccentric billionaire bankrolled it, etc...), it is practical and utilitarian for space stations would to have "boring" predictable gravity ~1G. However, that's in the UEE and to a similar extent the Xi'An and probably Banu space as well. What is known so far about the Vanduul is that they *seem to be* a predominantly space-based culture. While they do go down to planets, it seems they only do so to wage war and resource extraction. Furthermore some of the, admittedly brief, Vanduul cut scenes from SQ42 do seem to indicate that the interiors of their ships utilize changing and/or other complex gravity layouts.
@@enzopapet6439 spinning space stations do not generate gravity like earth. Gravity is related to mass, spinning space stations use the phenomenon of centrifugal force to emulate it. But I guess in the future they have devices that creates artificial gravity since there's gravity in your ship.
@@enzopapet6439 First : The ships and space stations in Star Citizen DO HAVE technologies that generate gravity. You don't float in those ships, you walk. And secondly : the stations clearly not use centrifugal force because you would be walking on the the curved side of the wall using this kind of gravity (see 2001: a Space Odyssey). It's not the case. This is what I mean. It doesn't even have to turn on itself because it doesn't do anything anyway. It is purely cosmetic. And a little correction : the gravity on earth is not created because it is turning on itself (otherwise you would actually be propelled toward space). It's just that the object is so massive that you are naturally attracted to it, being so tiny compered to it. So, talking about realistic. You can see now why creating gravity is no small feat. Unless you have a earth sized object to walk on, or a centrifuge, this technology is actually, with the quantum drive, a massive bending of the laws of physics. It's theoretically one of the most impressive technologies of all time. They somehow achieved it. But no "scientific explanation" so far.
Your idea is neat and would be cool if they used it or something like it for one of the alien races. A culture unlike humanities that would be disorienting to us at first
You said EVERYTHING I've been thinking about the new stations, the good, and the bad. Thank you! I sincerely hope CIG takes note of your comments. I think you speak for A TON of us. Also, super cool visuals again :)
Yet another excellent video, thank you. My favorite elements of the stations: 1. the scale is suitably large with room to grow. 2. exteriors appear to be well done (at least when I can see them while not being blinded by the sun). 3. I appreciate the detail in the interiors. My issues with the stations are as follows: 1. Why do most stations have to be set up in the middle of a bloody asteroid field?!? Please stop this CI. 2. Due to the sun completely blinding me every time I arrive, the approach to stations can be quite dangerous (see #1). 3. That window/glass crease in the main viewing hall - (i.e. 6:02 Yeah, that shows up everywhere and it would be great to remove it since it's at eye level and ruins the view). 4. They are not easy to navigate once inside; it's pretty clear they just used their tool to randomly generate it. 5. I would love a mobiglass feature that lists the stores and services through the map so I don't go to a station to buy a gun, only to find they don't have a store there. 6. It can often be difficult to see what pad/hangar you are assigned on approach.
You’re the reason I got into star citizen, amazing content Iv every video with out a fail and incredibly knowledgeable about architecture keep up the amazing work maybe one day I’ll see you in the verse :)
Thoroughly enjoyable video as always, great camera work, music and editing bring together the subject at hand perfectly and kept me interested. While I'm no Architect, it does make sense what you are trying to get across, and I agree there is a disconnect between the exterior and interior of stations, and yes, I do get lost wandering aimlessly trying to find certain areas. I'm not sure, but are they not still reworking and expanding the interiors after recently updating the exteriors?
This is going to be fun, because I am an OTR commercial driver and I can relate to a lot of what's going on in these places far more than I first realized when they were first released. In fact, the first one I ever went to in star citizen was pretty accurate as to what I'd expect from a service plaza or "truck stop". After you land and go into the elevator you come out into the lobby where the ship selection consoles are. Then you'd walk to the main hub which is relatively open and has different sections and rooms along its sides as you continued walking. When I relate to star citizen's "truck stops" or R&R, I think of the travel plazas or service plazas that you'd find along toll roads like interstate 76 in Pennsylvania or interstate 80 in Ohio. Usually, when I stop in a parking spot I walk inside and enter into the main hub area, it's usually just a sitting area for people to eat or take a break from driving. And along the wall there are alcoves for fast food and such. The criticism you give regarding the one you featured in this video is exactly what came to my mind. I will admit the scale is a bit bigger than the service plazas I've been to, but I feel like that can't be an excuse. My first thought is, compared to service plazas this R&R/truck stop inside felt very small and not as well lit as any of the service plazas I go to, the materials used for the flooring walls and ceiling are rather dark and the lighting itself seems to be mostly dependent on the advertisements displayed in holographic form were some lighting around entrances and so on, but when I go to service plazas even at night they are quite well lit inside. I suppose they could make the argument that power might be an issue since it's not on any planet without a guaranteed source, so they might have to make sacrifices in certain areas, but I don't think they would... in fact I'm willing to guess they'd focus all they can on the space that people frequent there most! So, why isn't it as well lit? Over all, I really like the idea of truck stops and service plazas in space, but I feel like these ones are almost linear in appearance on the inside (lighting, almost feels like I'm still lost in space, yet I'm inside a structure that is meant to feel welcoming and relaxing compared to the grinding work and travel that you just left even if only foot a moment), and layout (linear layout compared to a more functioning design with the main hub in the center like all of the service plazas I've been to that I can think of). What I expected from these truck stops in star citizen would be to land on platforms that are more or less in the center, right in front of the main hub that's only separated by a small lobby for the ship request consoles. Inside the main hub, you'd have a holographic map of the station and other attractions/displays regarding the station or the nearby planet. You'd probably have restrooms immediately upon entering the hub to the right or left. Then along the back wall and further down to the right and left there would be different shops and information centers, much like how IRL service plazas are set up. That's my humble take on galactic truck stops, anyway...
I love your channel! awesome cinematics, incredible naration and voice... I liked architectural design before but never took the time to learn those things, and you're making it so interesting! As a dev tho, I did previously computer-generated maps for a game... and it's really hard: say you have to go from point A to B with a path the easy solution is to use probabilities, having fewer chances to generate an obstacle (ex random pick between 0-9, and 0 is an obstacle, thus 10% chances of generating an obstacle). The issue is what you can see at the moment in SC: it works, but this is chaotic a more advanced one is to do something called "path planning" (not sure) where when a structure is generated, you simulate a path between A and B, to be sure that you can actually move from A to B. Using this will allow also to generate signs and/or bands on the floor to guide players another advanced solution is to use conditions, ex: if there is an obstacle here, you can't generate another obstacle adjacent, in this example, a bar can't be generated alongside habs. The issue here is that you can end up with a huge number of conditions, and you also have to plan for each individual case. Aside from that, I would love to see bigger station and more windows... the exteriors are huge, however, the insides feel cramped and it's a real maze
Those flyby shots are beautifully made. As always, your comments are very informative and helped me understand why many modern airports feature a very large interior space.
Some beautiful footage there! Great video, my friends and I struggled at first with finding our way around the different stations. We play a lot so we have learned the individual layouts but it certainly isn't very newbie friendly, and makes no logical sense. They are indeed stunning from the outside though!
Absolutely love your videos dude, and you are right about the stations! Personally my first port of call would be to identify structural archetypes, domed, sphered, modular, discus, cuboid etc and then work on packets of tile sets from there. It would let you have several distinctive feels to different shapes of station, perhaps correlating to the company which constructed them, and would also allow you to set up the logic for the procedural generation... be easier to way find if there were consistent but small and subtle details which told your eye this was an economy corridor or a maintenance or a habitation corridor. Have subtle shifts in the design language would allow you to gently inform the player as to wether they were heading closer to the hub, or closer to the heart of the particular zone of the station. I do think that not having the space immediately open to the hub is a good thing however, make it more utilitarian corridors from the docking ports which lead you up into the heart of the station and deliver an impactful panoramic view of those large central chasms you mentioned ;)
They said that they need as many flat connection points as possible. Your idea of using a much larger central hub (a single module) to hint at the shape of the exterior (which can be done without affecting connections considering it would be flush with the exterior) prevents this from being a technical issue. Outstanding move!
YOU are sooo right!!! It took me a while to get familiar with the stations and thank God there is an NPC frozen before the security checkpoint that helps me all the time to find my way back to my ship!!! But once NPCs will be moving normally and I lose my little frozen NPC I will be lost forever in these stations!!! I agree with you that the outsides are stunning... that is what brought me in the game to beginning with: the level of graphic detail of this game. Signs are another good point... I love Lorville because if you noticed there are signs EVERYWHERE and you never get lost in Lorville... using the same approach for the stations would help new players a lot... Thanks for the great video!
My suggestion would be to have some sort of promenade like at an airport or, to mention something from science-fiction, Deep Space 9. You leave your ship, go to the elevator, and you come out at a large promenade that connects with everything else. I think that approach could solve a good number of problems and challenges: - A promenade could follow the round structured and large windows could reveal the outside scenery. That alone could do a lot to give most space stations a unique feel, and if it is just by seeing the host planet outside. Furthermore following the curvature of the structure would interrupt sight lines which would help to reduce GPU load (I assume that one reason of the current procedural spaghetti design is to interrupt sight lines). - All facilities could connect directly to the promenade - maybe through thematically grouped hubs (food, shopping, equipment, administration, habs, etc.) and thus avoid the need for often confusing hallways. - With the windows facing outwards, the hubs and rooms could face inwards. That would allow these structures to be box shaped which I think is a requirement for the procedural tools . At least it certainly helps to not have to worry about rounded shapes. Stacking and aligning dices is easier than aligning melons. - Promenades could offer a lot of space to give each station a unique feel even that the actual facilities are the same between all space stations apart from some color coding and textures that CIG might add in the future (stations in Arc Corp might be worn out read while stations in Microtech spave would be white). There could be stuff like local planets, water elements, localized advertisement and propaganda, and individual holographics design elements. - Hierarchy would be simple: Promenade > Hub > Room. Some signage might be necessary as I don't believe that CIGs semi-procedural (which is a necessity considering that they have to populate dozens, maybe hundreds of star systems across the Verse), but with such a simple hierarchy you won't need many signs, maybe just one sign for each hub and from there you could just follow the established branding. - Promenades would be expandable. Further down the road there might be more stuff to explore on space stations, like hubs for sports activities, or ship sellers, or the living habs could expand into small apartment villages. Given the dimensions of the space station CIG would just have to add another segment to the promenade. The bad thing about CIG's semi-procedural approach is that it eliminates the thoughts of the architect. The good thing on the other hand is that CIG can improve the recipe and add more ingredients, and once they have a new recipe, maybe one with promenades, they can quickly apply it everywhere (and that is the only feasible to build a universe without going fully procedural).
I know you've talked about using open and tall areas to indicate things before, but it was only now that I realized that my grandparent's house was built like this. Their living room and front room were built to have rather vaulted ceilings which sloped down into the dining area and entranceway respectively. As well as there was a cut down from the ceiling when entering the kitchen making it a much lower ceiling there. And going into the hallway where the bathroom and bedrooms were, the hallway ceiling sloped down to maybe 7-8 feet from the 10 feet or so where the hallway starts when walking about of the front room. I always thought it was odd that they had the ceilings going all over the place, but it makes a lot of sense now having seen your examples of good and bad examples.
Hey Morph! I started playing just on this most recent Christmas Day and Iused your guide to help me! And I just wanted to say I’ve seen many others in the verse doing the same thing and it gives me an opportunity to tell them more! You’ve done good things for new players! (even myself as I’m not even a month into my journey!)
I did not realize how much I missed these videos until this popped up in my suggestions. Awesome visual footage, shoutout to the guys that help you shoot it. i do agree, finding your way in the station was a task at first, and when your doing trading and deliveries from one system to another you can get disoriented.
Please don't stop doing such videos. I'am a 3d artist, I dont have enough time to reseacrh the art style of Star Citizen by my own by playing it. Thats why your videos is a very good reference for me, especially with a combination of your professional opinion. So I not only can watch how Star Citizen environments looks like, but also learn from your videos how I can improve my own designs. Thanks.
I agree with your assessment. My knowledge is on other kinds of design, but you still manage to make your content perfectly accessible. Now, this video has made me want to go on a segue on something I'd like to see inside Stanton at some point: one of THOSE stations in an abandoned state, lacking gravity and automation. Two things one of those could have in order to round out the feeling of these places (in my opinion) would be: 1- A big hole in the ceiling of the central hub so that one can enter straight from the outside. This would allow the player to really appreciate the scale by allowing a direct comparison of the two perspectives, outside and inside; plus it would allow to show off things like the thickness of walls and such. 2- A couple actual elevator shafts connecting to the hangars to navigate. Of course these would only need to exist in this "parallel" version of the station, in order to really hammer in the fantasy that everything in every station is fisically connected, without having to actually connect everything in real stations, with the timesink that would imply for users (and the nightmarish programming of elevator behaviour). Now, back to the program, my experience from navigating a station in 3.8 was more or less the same as yours, and I thought "I still wouldn't be able to convince someone of buying the game by letting them sit behind me and watch the raw experience, they'd get annoyed fast".
Great video as always! There are two small things you didn't mention that I would add: 1. The observation windows are annoyingly angled with a joint between planes exactly at player eye level. This creates a jarring effect for everyone looking out the window. 2. The procedural layout doesn't actually take the shape of the exterior into account when creating the floor plan. It seems like it would be pretty easy to add certain anchor points for windows and then have the tool build within the limits of the exterior dimensions. It would allow for more connection to the outside while also making the interior feel less like a separate instance. Levski does this with its elevator lobby very effectively.
From the Squadron 42 teaser, I think they have circular rest stop interiors to match the interiors on the table. It is a specific hero location, but that methodology might be able to be carried over when they work on New Babbage's interiors. Another thing I'm really looking forward to directly related to this and how the scale involves being able to see out of hab windows on places like Hurston Arc Corp and Microtech. if it carries over to other locations immediately. If I recall correctly they want more curves on rail lines.
From an architectural IRL stand point I completely agree with you. And yes, In my subconscious when I first entered the stations I did complain about the getting lost and the interior space not matching the exterior. However, this is a game. I enjoy having to figure out where stuff is, and I enjoy finding out-of-place shops because they feel like my little secret, same thing happens IRL becaue business owners don't always have the access to the best location. And although I immediately thought of Malls like IRL when I saw the new R&R stops. Judging from the modular parts (like trip hazards between rooms), it still makes sense for to have imperfect space stations in the universe, but we should only care about these once we have more different design styles more apparent throughout the game.
Excellent video! Your comments on hierarchy are spot on. When you approach a hallway intersection, you never know if you'll be entering a larger primary space, or a smaller secondary space. It seems arbitrary because it is since they're piecing these together with an algorithm. I still believe with a few tweaks, they can make the "truck stops" much more navigable, only requiring a light touch by the devs/artists. Keep up the great work!
Excellent video and excellent production! The shots are amazing. I'm glad you pointed out these things because they've irked me. Something I don't think you mentioned but I notice all the time is the bad lighting. Regarding wayfinding, it may help if they break the stations up into areas (like food court, shops, HABS, Admin & Delivery, etc) and gave each it's own visual aesthetic (instead of everything being edgy/neon looking)
I'm getting into 3D modeling and animation soon, and I'm taking these videos of yours as doctrine until I find something better, or just something else I can throw on top of it. Exceptional analysis, I say. Keep giving us these insightful and informative videos, and have a wonderful new decade.
I completely agree with you. Ideally, with the circular stations, you should have a central corridor and be able to walk completely around inside the station without any obvious turns.
I'm just glad it wasn't just me. I've been stifling my desire to criticize the new stations because I didn't see anyone else saying much about it. Thanks for the well thought out comments.
Interesting video as always and some gorgeous external shots, though some of those first person camera movements gave me horrific flashbacks to the gamepad controlled Citizencon keynote demo! Try mouse smoothing - it works wonders for making things look more natural and less twitchy.
This vid looked fantastic from a cinematography perspective, like you always succeed on doing in your videos. I also would like better hints that convey the exterior uniqueness of the stations. I do not know what limitations they are working with but hope they can enhance later.
I got lost in one of these stations after a....mishap over Yela. That wasn't a fun time. So it's nice to see this video finally put into words what exactly my problem was- and I think you're on point. There's no heirarchy, every space feels the same so there's no setpieces to navigate around.
Great review as always. Thanks for what you do. Although the stations need more signage and visual ques to help with way finding I really like how each station has a way getting you lost. It gives you a sense of being on a particular station without having to create completely different themes. Once you are familiar with a particular station it gives you a feeling of propriety. You say to yourself: "I've been here a few times. I know my way around now."
🌟 *The strength in Star Citizen, is the environment, and grqpics.* And, the strength in Elite Dangerous, is the ships, and the missions. And background lore.
That intro gave me halo flash backs👍😍. I'm so happy that I found a content creator finally covered architecture like this. I'm excited to see the future architecture of different systems and how CIG puts different culture in the various design.
A really informative and well designed video! Although I do not play SC yet, you made me wonder about some things. As you mentioned the nessecarity of a central open and circular feeling space, I thought about the embassy's ring of the citadel station in "mass effect". This would be a kind of design I also liked to see here, with its gardens, water bassins and a simulation of sunlight, although I apreciate an unique design language of course, too. Especially the way of lighting the station I would like to see changed. There are people living up there in dark space
... so I sent the comment without finishing it. Well, in short - dark space, dim and flickering lighting everywhere in station, people will get depressed and jump out of the next airlock. Should be changed. But again: great content you are cleaning! It takes something to make me typing on my cellphone that long...
Thanks, Morphy. You hit the nail dead on. The stations feel to procedural and too random. What gets me the most is that the form of the hallways are often redundant in that they make turns that are unnecessary. Like U-turns, with only a thin wall in the middle. To cig: the new space stations are a giant leap forward, but you need a "semantic understanding" of where to put what. As Morhoy says: the first time you are in a station there a 50% chance you get lost, trying to find the admin office.
Totally agree. The layout is awful. Too many pointless twists and turns that make travel inefficient and wastes my time and reduces profit as a courier / trader.
@@theun4giv3n I believe the "reduces profit" is a symptom of another problem. As you know players always run and NPCs walk. Loading and unloading should take time, so that there is no real point to running. It's sad because it looks so stupid, when we do that.
@@LarsBahner I mean in relation to how you would realistically set out a Space Station. As a space station owner / designer you would lay things out to be the most attractive to the intended user. So you would lay out the station as effectively and efficiently as possible. Trading hubs and courier drop off points as close to the docking points as possible for example.
I completely agree. CIG could really benefit from looking at existing structures that fill a similar purpose, i.e. shopping malls or transit hubs. The lack of structure and prioritisation is really confusing. There is no "golden tread" guiding you through the station, with the surroundings being grand or spacious if you're in some important part of the station and progressively getting darker and tighter if you leave the beaten path. I don't expect a dark hallway to be the connection between the embarkation/debarkation are and the main hub of the station, so if that's the case in the layout, I'll inevitably stumble around and not find my way quickly. I think we'll have to live with these problems for a while longer since they are pretty much the same problems that also plague the planets. Just think of how many corners you have to turn in Lorville Spaceport to get from the subway to the hangars. You would expect a major thoroughfare there, being the main artery of the spaceport, not some labyrinthine rambling of corridors of various diameters and brightnesses.
I know this video is a bit old, but here is an idea. The outermost parts of the station could be lined with glass to open it up, and for about 20 meters deep it could be all open much like an airport. It would feel much bigger and give one a sense of direction. Also it would then HAVE to follow the curvature of the space station. Then all of the stores, outlets, etc. could be in the middle with large hallways leading through them to the inside of the ring for a similar pattern as the outside of the space station. Kind of breaking up the station into city blocks. Anyways, just a thought.
I've long held the view that they should go: Elevators> Customs> Admin/Security Office/Main corridor > Main concourse. This should be one of a handful of basic "tiles" that they'd then build off of. That way all the main elements are easily laid out where a visitor can easily find them and forms the basis from which you'd find everything else. The main habs should be either down a branch corridor from the admin office or the main concourse, so that you follow the corridor and immediately recognise where you are, even if it's the first time here. From there, they could follow your design rules, such as smaller concourses dedicated to food (and put signage up like they have elsewhere, with noodles and a pair of chopsticks or one of the other "food" icons they've used, to point to it). Clothing and weapons could be off another minor junction and be indicated by a torso piece and a pistol. By keeping all the associated things together (or in the main concourse), it would lend a little more credence to the layout. It's like I've long said about the spaceports - a spaceport should contain every possible means of getting money off a spacer in the space allowed: Spacer bars for those trader waiting for cargo transfers, hab units (hotels) for those who are sleeping over, food outlets for those craving solid food that doesn't come out of a pouch, shops selling equipment at inflated prices in exchange for the convenience of not going into town, vending machines for those who are low on cash and still want food or drinks... passenger depature lounges, ship rentals... pretty much everything. Instead we get rentals, passenger depature (not yet implemented) and that's pretty much it... so the spaceports feel empty and we're forced into going into town for anything. The only niggle with the spaceports is that they put them (usually) slap bang in the middle of the cities... which sounds great until an 890j or Reclaimer with a faulty VTOL thruster comes into land... one failure and the city's going to be missing a big chunk... I always expected landing zones to be outside the city and then you'd travel in for whatever you wanted. That way, any accidents would threaten the spaceport only and you'd have more chance of steering away, into the wastelands... A very good analysis and well thought out... I'll have to watch the ship layout reviews sometime - especially if you've done one on the Starfarer...
Thanks for the vids. My thoughts are, why do they make them circular? Circular space stations originally started as a way to create artificial gravity by giving them a constant angular velocity around their axis, but in this game they have artificial gravity generators. It seems they hung onto the circular design because it's common, but I would really love to see them apply the form follows function rule a bit more.
what would also be nice is stations that connect to the planets in terms of design, like rough looking stations around arccorp with sharp edges and industrial features, and soft looking stations around microtech with geodesic domes and clean lines. or company based designs where a station is built by/for a known company and took its recognizable features in consideration
See Star Citizen Live Gamedev: Modular Space Stations: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-gu0zrEacfuI.html Yeah the rectilinear spaces inside were a big disappointment. Evidently they can create curved spaces, as shown by the exteriors, and they can map their various components to the outsides of those spaces. I recall in one of the official videos (link above) they complained that applying curved spaces to the interior generation system was too hard. The math is harder because you need to add trigonometry. All of the props are rectangular for example, (chairs, benches, display cabinets, etc.), so you need to add math to rotate them in space to match the curvature of the station.
One of the biggest benefits the developers get in this model of game-building is feedback from the folks play(test)ing the game, they find out what works with the player base and what doesn't. And I agree that the major areas need better presentation. the ship call-up terminals and elevators to the pads can be very hard to find with only the relatively small yellow 'Security' sign to point out its' location.
I agree the interior is too disconnected to the exterior, but I believe they commented that this is a tech issue. Currently my main issue is that once you've visited one station, you've essentially visited them all, they all have 1 armour shop, 1 clothing store and a food court with the same restaurants. I think this'll get better over time when they've added more rooms to build the interiors with though, but as of right now there is basically no variation between them except for the layout.
They don't all have an armor and clothing shop. Maybe half of them have a weapon shop and ship-gun shop as well. They're not that hidden, and yet I keep seeing people say "none of the stations have weapon shops" and "the stations only have armor shops".
you got all the points right. My BIGGEST problem with the stations is the lack of a link between exteriors and interiors. When all stations have a similar design inside, A player will slowly stop caring about the uniqueness of Stations altogether because they make no difference. I really hope CIG sees this. Also, I LOOOVE your Cinematic Visuals!
I completely agree with what you are saying about the inside matching the outside of a given station. I've only been actively playing the game the past two weeks and.... I had seen Port O and then I went to... Baijini(?) station and it's round donut shape had be all super excited! Until I discovered that the inside was more or less identical with a different ordering of elements to one of the R&R stations that I visited. It feels quite like the insides of the stations have no relation to the outside, almost as if the interiors are essentially like "The TARDIS". The EX Hab, with all it's floors, in a given station, for instance, is simply existing in its own pocket dimension that exists inside the station you are at. Really, it's the same EZ Hab, because two different locations I visited, many klicks apart, had the exact same person, same voice and same personality behind the desk. (They should just make certain "boring" jobs like that to be worked by very humanoid, perky, programmed androids. Put that in the lore and nobody will bat an eye.)
I think probably a function hierarchy of spaces is possible to program into the procedural layout tool, avoid any odd juxtaposition of spaces. Curved layout sounds more difficult, but would be amazing, even if just the largest hub room was curved.
I wholeheartedly agree with your criticism of space station design. For example, I'd expect Administration to be pretty close to the elevators, if only for the lack of an information screen, so visitors can, upon arrival, immediately inquire about the location of places they want to go to / see. What is really missing are signs pointing visitors in general directions. For the time being, I hope that those will be added in further passes of stations.
I agree with your vid! And to add, I miss the small things, like lots of doorways leading off we are prohibited from entering, working bathrooms in the eazy-habs, a shower and toilet room on the floor of the Eazy-hab itself (wouldn't want to trek across the front lobby with my towel and slippers). Waste bins for the fast food we buy and the type of stores that make sense in, say, an airport: candy, some goods that might be illegal the next jump over, magazines to read while waiting (although most people might read on mobiGlas, there are magazine stores on Arccorp, so...). Again toilets near the foodcourt. And another big thing is that for me the interior needs to be at least twice as large to enable me to suspend my disbelief and to help me fantasize we're inside that massive station and it's not just 1% of that massive station that has a few rooms in it. Heck, put a very long corridor in leading to a private/special landing pad, with a warning it leads basically nowhere interesting, maybe for smugglers to land at. And we really need to see closed off doors to management/flight control, cargo bays, private residences for shopkeepers and other residents, maybe a park, some way to get the oxygen renewable, etc. etc.
I agree that the interiors may need one more version to get the feeling just right but there is a really cool thing that happens after you spawn in a station. You are moving through ever expanding space. First the room, then hab lobby, then you experience the entire station from inside, you go out and see it from the outside, look over to see the planet, then finally fly off into the universe. Every space you go to from the start is larger than the previous space you were in and the scale goes up exponentially. Its pretty neat and ties into that sense of scale you talk about. But yes one more pass on interiors to help them make a little more sense, more of a layout update, the visuals are fantastic, especially the areas right next to the ship terminals and the food courts. New hab lobby is cool too.
I know I'm late to the party, but I'm glad this video exists. Spent my first day in SC yesterday, saw half a dozen stations, got lost in every damn one. I think the groundbreaker in Outer Worlds design was awesome and a good example of what you were talking about flow. Off the ship, through security and into the grand concourse. Stations should be designed and built, not generated.
Yes! Very good review. Of course they are very good looking, but you just pointed out the exact same things I've had issues with visiting these stations. Also since they all kinda look the same it just feels a bit weird when getting lost inside them. The distances between places inside that you move in between doesn't really feel motivated, because there's nothing there, but bending corridors. The fact that the interior isn't bending like the exterior is the one main reason why the old interiors really didn't work, imo. Speaking of the old stations - I wouldn't mind if they were still in there mixed with the new ones. I don't every station needs to be huge. By having smaller ones as well you'd appreciate the bigger ones more.
