As a retired Army guy I can tell you our large cargo aircraft like the C-5 Galaxy are set up exactly like this. Huge cargo down below and backward facing airline seating upstairs. Grunts do not get beds, you sleep in your seat regardless of long flight times. And you will stow your gear somewhere; no reason to sleep with it on during a 12 hour flight. An hour or so before landing everyone will gear up; pee and head down to cargo. RORO (roll on roll off) is the term for the dual ramp cargo hauler type. Love your videos, the recording and sound quality sets the gold standard.
True for the C5, but this wouldn’t be for a 12 hour flight, this could be for a multi-day or week transfer if going to deep space. I don’t think they’d have marines in seats for that long. Well…no, they wouldn’t…would they?
@@bent404 this is the military so yes they probably would. As for sleeping, you have plenty of floor space to set up cots, throw down a kip mat or even hang up hammocks if you’ve planned well enough. You have rations to eat, what more do you want. You’re certainly not gonna get a bed to sleep on that’s for sure.
@@bent404 You ever seen the Russians move troops by train across Siberia? Takes a few days. Make yourself comfortable, take your gear off, stretch your legs if you can, maybe sleep on the floor, but you're getting a chair only.
Hello Morphologis, me again, I told you about the perspective of a serviceman on a vessel to give you insight on the hammerheads mess deck, for the m2 looking at this from the perspective of a Marine who has deployed on a naval craft, its about how it is in real life. Yes on naval vessels we have berthing space, but not on say an LCAC where its to get to shore. We have the seating area that is used for regular transport but when doing a combat landing they would be out with the vehicles standing ready to go. How they are sorted makes sense and follows what we do. Yes you could line the sides with seats, but it gets in the way of moving cargo and such around the tonks and such. Even the C5 Galaxy, which is a modern aircraft similar to this has an 80 person passenger bay above the cargo area. I say its designed very well and in perspective of how modern ship/aircraft of its size are made.
Could always use foldable seats like the C-130 but like you pointed out they wanted this to resemble the C-5. The seats above on the second deck are more for passengers in general rather then being specifically for troops. Id say they did a great job making the ship a best of both worlds, a combination of military and commercial applications
When I saw all the escape-pods, it made me think; couldn’t the escape-pods have doubled as seats? And be put closer to the exit why not. Save more space that way. But then, in SC there’s almost as much corridor space inside a starship as there’s space outside of it lol
As a military veteran myself, I agree with your point on the Aux. Crew location and armory. For casual operations, it wouldn't really create a big issue, but for combat operations, as you stated, it would. However, I don't think this is really meant to literally be at the front lines, but more of a forward location with relative safety. This would be to cut down overall travel time for ground forces to reinforce or support a nearby area. I believe that too many people have thought of this as a dropship, when in reality it is a support vessel to expedite the supply chain. In modern day, we wouldn't try to land a C-17 or C-5 on the front line to being in tanks, Bradley's, or Strykers. Instead they would be brought close enough as to be readily available in a short amount of time.
Yeah you would use a Valkyrie instead at the frontline for quick drop offs while the starlifter would be deployed about a km behind the front lines at fobs
so i would like to just let you know when you were talking about the cargo hold and the design of the tiedown points and the path for the nova tracks. i am currently a loadmaster on the C5m super galaxy which this ship is based on heavily and that cargo hold looks exactly how i would design a cargo hold. and the track path for the nova is what i initially thought was there version of shoring which is just pieces of wood we lay down on the cargo floor to help distribute the weight of the vehicle evenly across the floor but upon a closer look i think there intention for it is simply put it's a guide for the tank driver to keep the nova within the center of the compartment that way you don't make contact with the side of the ship and cause a lot of money in damages. but yeah i think the design they went with is absolutely gorgeous and i do plan on picking up the civilian variant so to speak myself as soon as i get paid that is but amazing video been looking forward to this one for awhile now.
When I was a kid in the late 80s-early 90s, I lived under the landing path for Westover AFB in Massachusetts, which housed C5A's until 2017. Those things flew over at a couple hundred feet multiple times per day and it never stopped being an amazing sight(and sound - the signature whine was incredibly distinctive). The first time I stepped into a hangar with my C2, it took me right back to those days. They truly nailed the feel of the heavy lift cargo jet.
Love the looks of the ship, i do wan't one but at 500 usd i can't afford one now, picked up some less massive things like the Andromeda, 325a, ROC-DS and loads of paints pushed med past the 1k us spent yey
Greetings fellow military person (CIWS tech here, USN), as a loadmaster, how do you feel about how they put the jumpseats on the second level and not on the walls of the cargo area?
A weird point about the "singularity" is that when you turn off the lights in the main room. The singularity also turns off with it. So it's not a sigularity at all it's in fact just a giant spotlight on eye level. This point is further clarified by the engine fusion cells some ships have that are also present on this ship. It's such a weird feature... Other than that the C2 might be one of the best ships we currently have. I love it.
except it is still generating the distortion effects. same thing with the glowy tubes on either side. i think they just didnt quite get the "off" lighting in that room quite correct.
It's actually just one small part of him on each Herc, usually an eyelash or a fingernail clipping, stored in a solid lead vault... that's how much of his radiance still leaks out.
The name of the "Habitation" deck tells you why it seems so cramped compared to the rest of the ship. Air is a consumable and even given perfect scrubbers and recycling, the less volume you have to keep breathable, the better. If the lower deck gets holed the crew can still breathe. That's also why the jumpseats for the Marines are in that volume instead of the cargo deck.
The c2 also has a weapon rack along with those suit lockers in the room that has escape pods! That's what sold me on the c2 vs the m2. (Then I learned about the pistol locker in the bridge.)
I think those jump seat is used as a temporary staging area for the Tank crew/additional infantry. You generally don't want your hardware and human personel in the same space, when in a hot zone.
I consumed every bit of information on Discord and Reddit since the PTU introduced the Herc. After the ISC I didn't expect to enjoy another video about the ship. To my surprise, it was really worth watching! Thank you :)
Well, to be fair the Starfarer was the very first large ship CIG has ever built and it was actually created by a new hire who at the time only had experience making fps-levels for Alien:Isolation. So CIG has come a long way since then and I sincerely hope that they will give the MISC Starfarer and AEGIS Gemini their proper respective reworks someday soon.
@@soljafon Yeah, for some reason CIG still puts the Gemini in the MISC category even though both the Q&A as well as that Anniversary Luminalia magazine specifically stated that the Gemini is an Starfarer chassis that is sent over to Aegis for completion and the formal badge is the Aegis Starfarer Gemini (or Star-G) with internals completely finished by Aegis. i.imgur.com/ql1bLzj.png Yet at the moment it's still just a minimal effort reskin a regular MISC Starfarer with the only visible differences being those Retaliator style engine cowlings and the AEGS missile pod. So yeah, really hoping to see this AEGIS STAR-G someday that CIG was advertising.
Great review as always Morph. I had the same feeling on the M2. I like the idea in the future of a heavier armor tankier c2 able to drop vehicles and troops, but like you said the troop location is odd, for fast deployment. For the extra cost of the m2 we should have gotten additional functionality not just an alternate use of existing spaces. Moving the drop seats to a small room down stairs would make more sense and having the recreational area be extra room for longer trips with troops; beds, food prep, gear storage, etc. Woukd have been better use of that upper space. It would also justify the loss in scu if the bottom cargo area had the drop seats. Right now there is literally no difference in the cargo area so they just arbitrarily reduced cargo capacity.
WC=Water Closet, a legacy term for bathroom. Yeah I love the C2. I think it's one of the most beautiful ships, period. Real or not. Certainly my favorite in Star Citizen! I like the crew accommodations in the C2 along with its massive cargo space, and the passthrough functionality is great too. The C2 also flies quite nicely for its size and is my new favorite large ship. As always, your shots are spectacular!
Maybe I'm thinking too hard about video game space ships, but one thing that had me scratching my head is just how top-heavy the Hercules would be. Sure you have the large engine on either wing, and the tail-fins helping to balance the nose, but when the ship's hold is empty, all the weight is either in the wings or top. And the top of the ship sure does look to have some heavy components. Hercules loadmaster jobs sound like they'd be a real headache, but maybe that's what the glowing mystery in the top of the ship is for? It's some kind of gravity tech? Lol.
Would love to see a "Behind The Scenes" of your workflow. How you capture, techniques etc, editing. You make impressive videos and it would be awesome to see the work dedicated
Mmmmm I think that the open engineering bay really helps as it makes the space feel larger than it really is by letting you see to the other side of the ship, even though you can't walk there.
Watching the evolution of your Architect series has been really impressive. Always excited to see another episode pop up - and what a ship this time around!
Acceleration better be impressive; when cargo and carried vehicles' mass contributes to the parent vessel, I have a feeling a lot of larger vessels are going to feel quite zippy when unladen to be able to fly in gravity with full cargoes.
M2 is now 522 SCU. Also, even though there were two Nova Tanks in the video, both variants can hold three. M2 will also get a kitchenette during the next pass, and hopefully get the elevator buttons implemented, so it's not inner thought. Later passengers will need to be seated for safety during certain actions, such as atmospheric entry and exit. I agree regarding the jump seat location. An alternative would be to make the elevator bigger on the M2, which would explain the lack of cargo space in the identical to C2 cargo hold. Just wish there was another gunner seat in the M2. I expect the manoeuvring speeds might be nerfed later.
Very fitting that we have a transport dubbed the Starlifter. I'm immediately reminded of the old C-141 Starlifters that the Air Force used to use to move cargo and weapons around the world, especially during the first Gulf War. Very well done!
Yeah, makes the desks a little weird. A ship like this... has a few different use cases, each of which have different scenarios for the usages of the berthing space for sleep and relaxation efforts. But in many of them... the lights are going to be off more than they aren't.
@Morphologis I think I have commented on this before but I have to say it again. The cinematic production quality of your SC videos continues to improve and is just absolutely fantastic. It gives viewers the chance to fully enjoy the stunning design and detail of the models and environments within the game. Bravo, keep it up!
I do agree with the deployment of troops, seats for mounts should be foldable along the sides of the loading bay just like the Cutless or in the real world equivalent: the C-130. I can also see the argument that they are more cargo craft then drop ships so I think they added the armory for perhaps...long range mission planning and deployment? Overall its an incredible ship, streamlined design that feels very realistic and possible. Great work on this video, your channel is second to none for SC, the game is infinitely more interesting with superb content creators supporting it.
I feel so validated now - I have an M2 and I had the exact same issue as Morph noted here regarding the lack of foresight in getting troops from the jump seats quickly out of the ship and into the fray. I still love the ship though; I bought it with the intent of using it to haul very high-value cargo as well as for combat scenarios. If I'm responsible for carrying a bunch of players as well as assets like tanks and Ballistas into a warzone, well - that's a big responsibility. I am really hoping the high armor values (once implemented) will really make a difference in getting everyone into (and hopefully out of) the battle in one piece. I'm also impressed with how well it flies; pitch and yaw are decent but it can roll like nothing else in its class which was a big surprise. All in all, I will certainly keep it, but as Morph noted, I really hope they revisit it someday to address its crew area shortcomings.
The expensive nature of the ship and its seat positions infers it will not function as a dropship into the fray. It is better served as a troop transport, getting soldiers to a better defended FOB in order to shorten the travel times
Morph, the quality and professionalism in your videos is always top notch. I love this architect series, btw the beginning of this video should absolutely be used for the commercial!
why is every ship in star citizen so damn beautiful and unique, as someone just getting into space sim games i feel blessed even if this is alpha im amazed at the beauty they have created for each of them AND THERES SO MANY!!
Many people forget that there's gonna be ships from RSI that fall into the Corvette class. Or that Crusader built a heavy fighter to take on Frigates.... I wonder what they'd do to a super heavy transport. Guess we'll wait until the balance is changed, both by the arrival of the aforementioned ships and the fact that Developers can change stats at any point for balance.
I got to know the C2 while it was the subscriber ship last month and did a lot of Ninetails runs with it. I had such a good time flying her that when CIG took theirs back I went straight to the showroom and bought one with Credits. The thing that really surprised me was just just how well they handle: they're responsive to throttle & stick and their size count against them so much less than I was expecting. It's a great ship with great design language (I think of Crusader as the industrial equivalent of Origin) and I've ended up grabbing the Mercury as well for smaller loads because of the impression the Hercules made.
Well done! One of your best if not the best architect review you have done so far! Perfect visuals and music, very valuable analysis (M2 ... oups!) take care
Morph really seems to be continuously stepping up the game on the video production. The scene transitions, the music, the long panning shots and just listening to the details on design and function are wonderful.
I have a C2. Since the C2 has only 2 beds, I wish they had separated that long habitation room into two staterooms. That would work because it already has 2 doors and 2 shoilets. They'd only need to put a wall in the middle to make it into 2 separate staterooms.
I actually like the new weapons-they look less like an afterthought and it will be nice to have them turned off and retracted to reduce drag in atmosphere.
I completely agree with you on the M2. If they moved the jump seats to the cargo area it would also explain the loss of some of the cargo capacity vs the C2.
Great vid, ret USAF so I agree with some of the comments below regarding the M2. That said, fantastic video. Real fan and it must be really nice to have some people able to fly your ships so you can film. Excellent work.
Exactly. C2 is great. M2 is needlessly flawed/hamstrung. I still don’t get the thinking behind the reduction in cargo capacity either. If it’s armour is heavy then that would be a weight limitation and not a space limitation. You might not be able to get a full load of Uranium off the ground but a load of feather pillows would be fine. I think CIG often goes wrong when they are trying to crowbar fake limitations in for balance. The M2 could just be better but slower maybe and a lot more expensive
That could be another reason to move the jump seats to the cargo deck, it would justify the cargo reduction. (Assuming it can be done without impinging on the Tonk width.
Agreed. The cargo reduction does not make any sense. If they suddenly want to introduce mass to cargo and scrap scu as the limiting factor (a bad idea imo) then making a so obvious artificial limit between basically identically ships is just a bad way to start.
robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/transmission/18128-Crusader-Hercules-Starlifter scroll down to specs. What's in the game is likely a bug, not what it's eventually supposed to be.
Great video; Great choice of music for the intro. I love this ship - great lines; looks like it means business, too. I have it on good authority that the C2 can more than look after itself if under attack. Getting a C2 with in-game currency is my goal.
For the dropship side, its not really a dropship but more a troop transport. Likely a C130 or C17 transport. You land outside the warzone or even get paradropped but in both case you dont wear your gear on you or you got time to prepare ;) it is not in any case meant to face valkyrie or reddemer or vanguard or cutlass etc. And because of this, it is setup to provide the rivalry :) Other else nice comparission
"They also double as a nice little holding area for the Linus Sebastians of your group" Haha, still traumatized I see. I can't blame you though, he was such a troll. :P
The armory room makes sense (At least for Star Citizen), weapons and armor are lost during fighting (Specifically when dying), with dropships, having a stocked armory gives a player that might have freshly respawned at a local Medical fob (If you're doing some heavy fighting with a medical ship standing by) the option to just climb aboard the next dropship after getting out of the medbay and suiting up while en-route.
I totally agree about the jumpseats, they should have been in the cargobay. Other than that I would say the M2 is the better variant, but not better value.
I own the M2 variant and I was honestly disappointed by the "Aux Crew" section in it. It just feels like CIG had no real idea what to do with the space and decided to just simply cram some seats and weapon racks into it. As you said in the video, it doesnt really make a lot of sense and the seats and weapon racks would have been way more useful on the lower deck. Putting the seats down there would also explain the lower cargo capacity of the M2, since visually there is no difference between the C2 and the M2 in terms of cargo storage and thus the M2 should be able to carry the exact same amount of SCU as the C2. I would love for CIG to give it a rework, put the seats and the armory on the lower deck and use the Aux Crew section for the same Habitation/Crew Space that the C2 has as well, so the ship can sustain the crew of the M2 just like the C2 can.
I would suggest seeing the other replies by actual real-world loadmasters and troops about why the design is correct. This is *not* a drop ship. It's a heavy strategic transporter. You don't "drop" a ship like this. There's a reason there's only 12 seats upstairs. You are in those seats for transit and then get in your vehicle after landing. If you need a "hot" arrival, you get in the vehicles during descent and drive off on the ground. In the real world, that's a very rare thing to see. A C-5 or AN-124 doesn't land at the front line. It lands at a massive airbase and you then unload there. The idea is to get the equipment there safely and not lose a massive, expensive airplane(ship). "Hot Drop" by something that big is not ideal.
@@CAPFlyer from the brochure and art, it's sold as a tactical deployment ship .. so figure that out. Also, sold as a reason to be armored. How many current military aircraft are armored?
@@CAPFlyer I would suggest looking bacl at the ship and how it is advertised. According to CIG it is indeed a dropship for heavy equipment and it is armed and armored for exactly that reason. Even CIG's Hercules trailer shows C2s and M2s unloading tanks and infantry in a hot landing zone directly at or behind the frontline, close enough to make use of their weapons. While I generally agree that the M2 *should* not be a dropship, it was advertised and built as one and therefore I would like to have said functionality. Additionally the Aux Crew space in the M2 doesnt make sense if you use it solely as a vehicle transport ship since there is no need to ferry armed and armored soldiers/crew in a vehicle transporter. Even in a C5 Galaxy role the Aux Crew space should be scrapped and replaced with the same Rehab space that the C2 got.
C2 was my first jpg expenditure in the game, pleased with both the function and design of how she came to life in the game. Now, if they'll adjust the counter balance just a tad. I do like that she is so short on the foot print that landing crossways on an outpost's small pad is a perfect fit.
Good review, one thing to note, when it can be avoided you don't put cargo and crew in the same compartments. So the upperdeck jump seat was realistic... However it should have a direct ladder or two to the cargo bay, second exit. The herc is setup like a C5 Galaxy and takes some layout choice from surface ships such as a JHSV (joint high speed vessel)
Excellent insight as always. You're absolutely right about the placement of the jump seats / armory in the M2. There have been must debacle around the lack of kitchen but the design flaws are stretching further as you pointed out. Just hope CIG takes notice.
Dude.. I've began to just watch these videos of yours when I feel like I want content with quality that treats it's viewers with dignity and a promise of quality. You make great content and Think of everything. I say this as an spiring mediadesigner: you make very, very good content.
The funneling of the Marines and the elevator ladder problem can be seen in extreme on the 600i touring. If they are on the ground and have to evacuate there is only a slow person elevator available for 14 people. 2 fitting comfortably means 7 trips of the lift. Not even mentioning "elevator and power loss" if the engine is the thing that is burning. 4 crew (3 flight crew, pilot, co-pilot, engineer and one bartender, not even counting turret operators here) and 10 guests (4 cabins with 2 people and the front suite) for 7 escape pods. So the escape pods fit half the people on board, almost like on the Titanic. And people were complaining about the Retaliator missing one escape pod.
Are they drop ships or are they transport ships? I think if you're going into a "hot LZ" in a ship this big, with doors that open so slowly, with any troops still in their seats, you have more issues than a ladder.
Transports for sure, if you drop hot in this shits either really fked or you're doing it wrong. Its basically a space C-5, shields and guns are more for the in transit protection than for use in the actual landing area.
@@TrevFirestorm exactly! There are a few real world aircraft that CIG must have got some inspiration from, be it in name or role. It's a great ship and one I'd like to get in game, but I don't think it's in any way a dedicated front line fighting vessel.
I've been waiting for your thoughts on this ship! I love my Starlifter. I really enjoyed your take on improvements to the C2. I wish CIG would consult with you to get your input while a ship is in white box phase. Excellent job on this video Morph.
The seating for the marines is only for the time they’re in transport to the combat area, once they’re preparing to egress, they’d already be downstairs before the doors open/before the LZ is reached, regardless of any potential maneuvering needed.
Well you won me over !!! You sir are an artist. This is as good as it gets. I loved it some of the views in this video are gorgeous. Thank you man for putting these up. You Rock!!
what annoys me the most is the fact that they suddently found space for one additional room on the M2. Why one? whats with the other side? and why does the C2 not have the space at all??? They could have explained the cargo difference from the M2 to C2 by having the jump seats on the cargo deck but no, the sapce is the same yet it has less cargo??
They actually have the same space; the M2's is the troop/armory, and in the C2 the same space is a kitchen/recreation area. The cargo difference is supposed to be because of the M2's thicker armor :/ I wish this had been reflected in game by having more reinforced walls, or some visible difference in the cargo bay to show it off!
I think the jump seats are only for actually QT jumping. There's more than enough time for people to get from the seats down into the hangar bay, before any landing or dropoff. At least as long as we still drop out of QT a good 30km from the target. And firefighters exist IRL. How do they get down to the garage? By sliding down the pole. Same as this ladder (since you can slide down it). It really isnt a bottleneck as much as you think. 12:50 again, you're excessively quick to judge for the sake of finding a critique for the video. If an operation takes the crew from a quick excursion on Magda to a final assault (or an emergency call) on Aberdeen, the soldiers are going to need a set of space heat-resistant armor. In said lockers, prepared by the commander / hercules crew. How would that be "entirely useless" in any way? That's like arguing that an APC in real life being capable of storing gear is "useless" because there are no beds inside for the crew to spend two weeks solid living in.. See, this is a quick easy way to check if your own critique is valid or not. If you can come up with a reason for why it isnt valid, in less than 10 seconds, chances are the critique wasnt valid. So what would be a valid critique? That the ROC-DS is pointless.
so true. The only counter is. Look at the current C5 that flies from America to a destination far away. (Say Afghanistan) . Now often we would go to Germany for that and then fly smaller crafts in or the load was to deploy behind the lines, not what the C2 does in game (Yeah for verticlal take off and landing) but if it is a 10 hour trip, their is little need for a kitchen like that, and a bunch of seating is more correct, as well as a place to stow your weapons and armor for that trek. That all being said, I think you are highly correct that they should have just lined the walls with seating on the bottom floor and that upper area for the officers and a planning room. most could stay the same, but put a holotable in the area to show visuals, or a movie (statement onboard the walk on for invictus week). But love the videos please keep them coming.
Could possibly improve it by simple adding a ladder to both ends and making it accessible from the jump seat room as well. But putting them in the cargo is infinitely better, though maybe not as safe for the occupants.
Thanks for the vid. Regarding your comments on "Program Adjacency," take a look at the C-5 Galaxy. I've flown on those before, as a Marine, and the passenger seats are located in an upper area, completely separate from the cargo cavity. The reason is that a military cargo craft like this isn't really intended as a "dropship" going into direct contact with opposing forces. Especially since the cargo is valuable and vulnerable. If it was necessary for the cargo and passengers to deploy in a hot zone with enemy contact, it is much more likely that the troops would be in their vehicles, ready to go as soon as the ship touches down. I don't see the "drop seat" area as a mistake or waste of space since it does offer a safe place for passengers to be seated in longer flights, and it makes sense based on what I've experienced in a similar craft.
the front and rear loading docks are great for quick operations. If you wanted to just drive off into combat you would have to back the tonks in. with the front and rear ramps you can drive through the ship that way they can be easily deployed in combat. Its also just easier overall even in non combat situations.
