An Expensive Learning Experience - Ram 3500 Cummins Check Engine Light 

Something that may help going forward. The phase square waves ,A,B and C, should be 120 degrees from each other. The three phase is electronically created in the control module. I'm guessing the control is also a variable frequency drive. All the new brushless cordless tools operate the same way. The VFD function allows variable speed control in place of PWM. If the motor is wye connected, as it appears, a loss of one phase will throw the electrical balance off and may be why you were seeing the strange reactions on the other two. Set the old pump and controller up on a bench and experiment. In a three phase motor the power flowing through a particular coil is returned through the other two. If the motor if functioning correctly the ground really does nothing.

That is awesome! Great work .I definitely have had my share of wins through losses. But love how you proved it out.eBay has a great connector selection for a proper repair.thank you for sharing with the rest of us whom may run into this, it is frustrating when there is no known goods or service information that lacks

I love this video! It shows that even some of the best can have an issue. It would have been so easy to make it seem like you easily figured this out. I appreciate you guys keeping it real and true. Keep it up

Where I am from (Serbia), there is no car mechanic shop (official or unofficial one) that is diagnosing an issue like this. No one has this approach. Literally, everyone is just throwing parts store at the vehicle and sometimes they get lucky with it. (No one is reimbursing clients for parts changed without a reason) This is magical to watch someone doing work like it should be done. I was schooled for vehicle electronics/mechatronics, in school they do teach us about scopes and how to use one, about all the different sensors and actuators. But out there, when you start your career, no one is doing that. This is awesome stuff to watch.

This is what separates average techs from the good ones. Most guys would have thrown in the towel but the great ones won’t be able to sleep until they figure it out. Kudos!

There’s not many that would cut open a module. That was a crazy diagnosis and it shows you how the manufactures start throwing parts at it. It’s hard for customers to understand what even the manufactures start recommending. This field is so tough because the demand of productivity. I love your shop and your guys that can truly work on a car till it’s done.

BTW forgot to mention this is EXP1612F connector from Connector Experts in Chicago. They come as a loaded pigtail with 8 + inches of wire and all 16 pins populated. They ship quick. Google it and call them up.

Bummer that you guys took the fall for this one, but I sure as hell took a lot of value out of this video. Thanks so much for sharing. Not a single classroom could teach you this.

99% of technicians would of never found this issue through diag..well done 👏 hats off to you guys 🍻

40 minutes and 20 seconds of pure gold information. great work guys thanks for sharing another amazing Diagnostic.

my worst fear with the new vehicles. All the electronic, computer, circuit board, CAN Bus bells and whistle and gizmos work fantastic. Until they don't. Then the goose chase is on.

Nice find guys!! You run a great shop! I hate that we have to lose money on the tough stuff. I see why many shops don't want to get into this, and send to dealer.

Inspiring ! Outstanding ! Like watching a war documentary . Riveting ! Educational to the max ! Big thanks to you guys ! 👌🏼

For your information, those connectors a molex mx 150. Mouser is your store to find the female terminals. What I do not understand is with wire testing you did not find that kind of problem with the terminals

A long video but thoroughly beneficial to us who have struggled with similar issues. Especially problematic are the issues which appear and disappear at will without any rhyme or reason. A three-phase motor will continue to operate on two phases (called single phasing) but this causes an overload condition. Frustrating that the manufacturers cannot provide better diagnostic information. I would dare say that no mechanic in my locale, would have had the patience to pursue the solution. I wonder how RAS figured up the final bill? BTW...Kudos to the cameraman.

Nothing makes me feel better than a shop as good as yours say, we don't know. Now I feel normal about my t.s. sometimes lol good stuff. Thanks for sharing your mishaps and not hiding from us

What you guys did is intelligently follow the diagnostic path and make factual decisions based on data. You are the second or third hand on this job and did what was necessary to get it right for the customer. Good o'l hindsight is truly 20/20. It's all too easy to look back and say we should have did this, that never happens when your still in the trenches. No one wins them all. You guys are an asset to the industry and your employer and customers. Awesome Work! Beautifull use and analysis with that ATS Scope!!!!

Love this video Show the real life strugle to find a solution.....not shorcuts whatsoewer ...... very educative...thank you

I think you guys could have tried to rotate the pump and see if any other dtc would set while disconnecting phase b and c. My reasoning is maybe during operation the module would be able to detect which phase circuit is open. Great information, I learned quite a bit through this diagnosis.

Great video! Thanks guys, you are great! I never butchered one of those pumps, but I suspect, judging it by its circuit, those pumps are just brushless motors where the windings are joined together at their ends like a typical stator in an alternator. The lack of integrity of one of the circuit messes up the reading of the others.

As a retired wrench and still trying to learn electronics your video is pure gold. I appreciate the humble way you guys not only showed the solution but taught how to get there. Remember the truck had been to Dodge and another shop first so this was no doubt a very hard one to detect even though once found we think, heck that should have been easy. In fact, No Way, that problem was very well hidden. Nice work, enjoyed each step and learned from your sharing.

Awesome video. I love it.🤩 May I put forward my hypothesis ? 01. Video time 32:31 showed a rounded (damaged) of the plastic casing of lower terminal. Where it should actually be rectangular. It is the lower row pin, 4th from the left. This connector is a 2 rows x 8 pins for the dosing pump controller module. 02. Between video time 25:10 to 25:26, it shows that the healthy right side connector made the CLICK sound, where the bad LEFT connector never did make a click sound, meaning 100% insertion depth never occurred at the LEFT connector and the gap at the connector towards controller body also shows it never did. I suspect that rounded hole could be the reason. The LEFT connector seems like 3mm short of maximum insertion. No click sound is NO good. 03. The Phase A, B and C you guys add extra wires to bridge/jump the connection, however it does not mean all 3 phases are having the same "bad-contact" problem. However phase A jumper wire if removed did cause the DTC to appear, so confirmed that Phase A is bad. You guys uses 3 wires to be certain, as this is a 3 phase brushless pump. 04. Phase protection relay/module is a common safety device one uses for 3 phase home or industrial AC electric system. Any phase loss or any voltage drop/rise between all 3 phases above/below a setting we target, will disconnect the 3 phase motor by means of a 3 phase contactor. In your case it seems the pump controller safety protocol when Phase A ( would be for Phase B & C loss too ) is lost, is to cut power and then send those harmless low voltage spike signal, which can also be a diagnostic signal to verify a short or an open circuit at the motor windings. Try looking at the LEFT (bad) connector the 2 rows x 8 pins wiring diagram of the pump controller, that damaged-rounded pin 4th from left, bottom row, what is that for ? I suspected that is phase A. Video time 2:02 shows wiring diagram and is pin 7 for Phase A for DEF Supply Pump ( lower connector ). The top connector shows Exhaust Fluid Dosing Control and phase A is at pin #4. Too bad the 2 rows x 8 pins connector has no number shown on its front. I am very very curious with this case study. If you can dig deeper at that damaged/rounded pin, I would be most grateful. Thank you.

Guys, test your test light AMP DRAW and write it on the light fixture, we cannot accidentally over-AMP a component, especially a module. If you kept a notebook to create a custom library and not a whiteboard, you would not make the mistake of not reusing the same colors on the scope for future testing purposes and compare apples to apples pls. Thank you for this experience, its not my first time to see this but its not on the top of my list of tests. You are asking about PHASE B & C, it seems here at the end of the video that the connector pins for B & C are good?? Did you depin B & C to be sure if it would code for B or C?? Did you specifically create an open circuit for B & C to see if it would only code for A again AND still keep the BYPASS in for A?? I will not say that I would have done this BYPASS test sooner but I am sure I would have done it eventually. I was a TV and electronics tech before joining the military as a teenager, I have seen these types of problems and I have remembered this type of issue and I have a video saved about back probing vs pierce probing based on where the wire is damaged near a connector. If I find the video in my library I will post it in a reply, I believe it was a CAN issue going to the back of a van and an installer pulling too hard on a harness or a connector and damaging the copper wire inside the insulation very near to the connector, NO the video is not this type of problem about a connector exactly on the module. I am also sure that I have recommended this type of bypass to the PCB of a module but I may not ever find that again. We all know a poor solder joint inside the PCB such as Jeep or CHRY PCMs are known for, wiggling the PCM connector and problem found, right guys. How does a BMW code a circuit for the 3 PHASE motor for the VALVETRONIC motor if one of the phases is dead? Do you have info in the service info for that? How does the DME monitor the volts/amps/resistance/feedback? Is this RAM from the DAIMLER/CHRY era with German Engineering involved? This is the last of your current 35 videos that I have watched and taken notes on and evaluated the videos overall, about 1/3 of your videos are not up to the DIAGNOSTICIAN level and you know this already, do you want to continue to teach a few beginners level videos or step up to all higher-level training which I honestly believe this is where you need to be IMHO. You have the feedback from YT that you can make an informed decision on your own. Would love to see more videos per week if at all possible, cheers. I monitor about 200 automotive repair non-DIY channels and catalog many videos every week, Semi retired diagnostician, retired US Air Force. Love you guys.

Diagnostics is an art form that few can claim they are masters of. You guys have achieved that status. As well you have ethics. That is rare.

Everybody who works on DEF system knows that is a lot of problems with this system.And all of them are expencive.In Europe we have a lot of those systems.This what you displayed is pure gold to someone who struggle with pumps wich are notorious to go bad.Those captures are gold mercedes has the same setup...etc.So it can be used as refference.A lot of those pumps and tanks are in back order.....This seems simple but this is very difficult to diagnose.I would go same path.Good job.Keep them comming.Cheers

I have experienced bad connectors in the past and have dissected them. What I usually find is that the insulation was not properly stripped back from the wire leaving no exposed wire to crimp or solder to. Sometimes only one or two strands contacted the pin.

Does the red lock tab fully engage without effort? I work at a RAM dealer and I have diaged quite a few electrical issues from people not fully seating connectors. The red lock tab should engage effortlessly if the connector is fully seated prior to pressing it. A big one I see is fuel pump connectors packed with dirt preventing the connector from seating down all the way. I have seen brand new connectors with aftermarket tanks where people get mad and just let them sit like that. Over time they will either wiggle off, or make intermittent connections. It might seem stupid, but it really takes all of a spec of dirt and what seems like a hair thickness worth of distance to prevent good contact.

The scope never lies, but service info will keep you in the dark. I wish there were more clear service info available. That’s the most difficult part of this job is trying to diag parts that don’t have a complete theory and operation description.

That was a hard one to solve ! What great Information ! Hope Stelantis sees this and comes up with a TSB and compensate you for the search and findings for them !

Great video, with this type of customer service. You will never fail

wonderful video i use you tube to learn. but sometimes its to learn how to diag something. but like this one i learned i haven't been working on diesels and will continue to not work on them. i have found several things from you and other channels that me being a one man show wont work on. i watch PHAD Ivan and Eric O. from South Main Auto all of you are good and do things a little differently but learn so much thanks so much for sharing

Gentlemen, you are brilliant. 🔧👑

Amazing working and thinking Good job.

good work guys 👏i really appreciate your time and your effort to show us all how to find the problem. Thanks for every video 😊❤

Wow i appreciate the video.. i guess i keep my old truck, what a deal . I certainly recommend your shop to find the root cause of the problem

ya that's a real hard one to figure out there. i like it you don't give up , had someone working on my car and that's all they did was throw parts sensors at it still runs they same, i brought it to an ace mechanic and hes doing what your doing finding the real problem, or problems, keep up the good work and videos i am learning a lot just watching your videos , 👍

Quality video. Love the content on your channel. Every customer and shop owner needs to see how challenging some jobs can be. You guys can keep your head held high as you did everything in a logical order , thanks for sharing. Top guys. X

You guys are the Master class .. thanks for sharing. Well done. Another test would be a volt drop test across thru the A B C connection. wire to board.

Yes connector issues can really throw you for a loop. That was a tough one. Great job dealing with a difficult situation. I had a solenoid ground wire at an ECM. Replaced the ECM only to finally find out that particular pin had physically broken inside the connector. Looked fine until you pulled it apart. That was a painful lesson.

👍Man that was a suspenseful episode! Thought you were gonna have to call Bernie on that one. 😂 Nice, honest work as always. Thanks for sharing.

Great video, amazing case study. Thank you guys so much for uploading such amazing videos.

After being out of mechanicing for 30 years and just getting back into it, I have a lot to learn. And this was a very good learning experience. Just started. to learn the scope. Great job.

You had it plugged in with the jumpers at the end when you were testing AB &C but A was the only one affected by removing the jumpers so unless I'm missing something that means those terminals in the plug are functioning properly,, it's just the A terminal that's the problem.. ?? OK I hadn't watched to the end I think y'all figured that out..

I have run into this at Mercedes with sealed connecter being open inside the molded pins holder.

Dave Hobbs had a solid video on these 3 phase pumps. Ran across a few. Planning on hitting Joe up for his 3 phase module tester. Where you can diagnose if the pump is the issue or not

Fantastic video! Thank you for taking the time to film the process and show us all the trials and tribulations. Greetings from the UK 🇬🇧

A year later. Wow! Echoing all the positive encouragement. I am a retired electrician. Commercial, Institutional, industrial and standby power. I like puzzles. To another's point. Management or ownership breathing down your back to get it done now because of THEIR insecurity. Nothing is learned. The issue doesn't go away. The client moves on. None of that is good for business. Hats of to you Sherwood for standing in there and taking your licks. Integrity. Seldom does one act with Integrity.

Thanks for posting.

Excellent dish! Keep up the sincere and honest workmanship! 😎👍🇺🇸🧰

Wow wow wow that was nuts. I don't understand how the load test didn't catch that as I assume you were front probing. That one sucked plain and simple. Even if it was not 3 phase that still would have been tough. Either way great work guys!!

that is a strange one as you load and resistance tested the 3 lines from module to motor the module is looking for uneven draw on each phase so when one or more differs to the norm up pops a code have you tried the tug test to see if the wire fails at the fault it could be that when load testing you flexed the connector and made bad wire good by accident ? cracking video love the brain twisters

you forgot about phase D. throw that crap in the trash. AFTERTREATMENT system is the biggest joke.

We have been in your situation multiple times, when trying to fix diesel generators.. I think here the big question is - besides which the problem was - is "How much do you charge " for a task so complicated and laborous;; I yould really like to hear your thoughts on that @Royalt Auto Service, but also from other technicians here. As always, great content!!! Fascinating enjoyable and also a learning experience, all at the same time!! Thanks!!!

Whoever is doing this technology so difficult is killing us techs . Things w/ auto mechanics should be kept simple or no not being produced at all . Stick with the old technology…

Great video! I just started watching your channel a few months ago, my shop has ATS 8 channel scope with pressure transducer kit,escan and 5 gas. So I like watching and learning from you guys. I honestly don’t think you should have paid for the module because how else would you proved the connection issue. You guys are TOP NOTCH!!!

Geez!! Great find! A tough one for sure. Regarding the code set criteria, P0208A lists possible causes as A,B, or C. It DOES NOT specify the fault as circuit A only. As you go through that trouble tree it has you test EACH of the circuits for a fault. I think you guys mistakenly thought it was circuit "A" because of the "A" at the end of the code. There is nothing in the code that indicates this to be the case. I believe "A" simply indicates there is an open in one of the supply circuits. Just as "C" indicates one of the supply circuits has low voltage and "D" indicates one of the circuits has high voltage.

With the Phase A, B, C I think you're reading too deep into the code description. It says Reductant Pump A, control circuit/open. So there's a problem with Pump A. It doesn't specify what wire of the Pump is at fault. I have no idea if there is ever a Pump B, C, or D but it seems like they've left room for additional pumps with the code descriptions.

I've seen a few factory connectors not crimped right. You can't tell till you pull the insulator seal back. Do all 3 circuits ground through one connector? (3 ground wires on 1 pin)

Nice persistence. Could you have jumped connection without opening module? V=IxR higher level math without a calculator. Interesting to note the pump is 3 phase PWM controlled as noted in other comments. Good video

You didn’t disconnect pins B and C, you disconnected the jumpers for B and C. The problem is on the phase A wire and pin, so disconnecting the phase B and C jumpers didn’t induce a fault. In a three phase motor all three phases are tied together at the neutral return. If any one phase has low voltage, all phases are affected. Depending on how they set it up, phase A might be the only phase that’s monitored. I doubt that, though. If only phase A were monitored, they probably would have called it a general power fault to avoid confusing their own technicians.

Correct test terminals test pin drag ,Headlight cir wires........this bidness sucks sometimes dont it

I watched this video all the way through after a mechanic screwed my brother over. He had his f250 worked on by a shady mechanic who had his truck running for 7 miles and broke down again. The mechanic did not refund any of his money and just said he needed a new engine. I wanted to see how you guys handle things when you misdiagnose something. Its awesome how you only charged for the diagnosis and the repair that actually fixed the truck. I am very curious how much this diagnostic fee cost after a few days. Is it the same price as a diagnosis that only took 1 hour? Thanks for being honest in an industry that contains an immense amount of dishonest, shady people. God bless you guys!

Great work guys

What an interesting case study!!

Remember when Ford had the key on wiggle test back in the 80s.90s 😵‍💫

Bummer but integrity is so important to those us who care about it. Big question is how the heck did the connector get messed up? Did you just hit a salvage yard for a harness/connector?

Thank you for sharing, God bless you guys

Darn it man that's awesome you're doing great things great job. I'll make sure to let people know about you guys. Keep up the awesome work

I see a lot of bad connectors on rams. Usually at the TIPM and inline connectors at the driver side fender well area.

That was a hell of a lesson ! Thank you for sharing it with us and thank you for your honesty and humility.

Does it change polarity and pump def back into tank on different circuits?

That molex connector are the same from the amp of my can am spyder. I bought those in amazon.

The customer should have taken this truck to a true diesel shop they would understand it better diesel is a whole different world

All three were still connected via the connector. You didn't pull them out of the connector.

Thanks for sharing

Yay for poorly written service manuals. 😑

Are phase B C making connections through connector pins ? IE only pin A is faulty.

Wish you guys de-pined phase B and left A jumpered to see if it would only set the phase a code.

exselentes dianostic master mi respeto para ustes master

seems like electrical problems are always a connector of some kind if there isnt a smoking gun

Holy crap Ram,,,, replace the pump did it return,,,??,,, wow !!! That's pathetic!!

It ain’t got no gas in it

Current draw each phase with amp clamp….?

You have outstanding morals

If you work on a lot of Cummins invest in insite

Wow! Glad we didn’t get this at our shop..

Oh man you guys are diesel tech

A is your main pump drive cicuit

Hey there✌️ I know it was more than one year now but I want to tell my story with old Golf MK4 1.6 FSI. We have a lot of them in western Ukraine. Customer complaint was the slow response from throttle body and engine doesn’t make full power. ECU throwing a code for Throttle position sensor A. Wiring was checked numerous time. Customer already had a new ECU which was programmed by the previous shop. 1 throttle body from the junk yard and 1 brand new was installed before - no changes. Then I decide to eliminate the issue with pin tension in the connectors. Found the right connector for the throttle on my spare parts shelf. Put it on and make a bypass wiring for two signal circuits from TPS. Code disappeared, engine revs up. I changed that whole connector and that’s all. Customer was very pleased and told me he spent almost 700$ on previous mechanics labor and all the parts. Tricky problem. Sorry about my English😅 and have a good day who’ll read this. ✌️

This is exactly why I'm not 'upgrading' to a newer vehicle. What a battle of logic and wisdom throwing everything u had at some blessed engineers brainchild. Impressive battle.

you never load tested the wires

Every body learning 😊

I thought 3 phase motors were an AC wave form. Why’s it showing up as a square wave?

Good job getting to the bottom of that fiasco. I think the service data was inadequate considering 3 phase motors are relatively new to the field. The scope showed you the problem, but without the "known good" waveform, how are you going to know?! Again good job.

Great Video, you seem to operate your business with integrity, that alone places you above the most, the fact that you and your team are knowledgeable explains why you're successful !!

Thanks man I know you can lose lot off money but Thanks again share with us this bad story

the price of war is lives can be lost, ammo be spent, money burned but even then sometimes you have to retreat and regroup. this is the side of advanced diagnostics that drives so many shops and so many techs to be timid about diagnosing the really tough cars. you're the defacto shop in the area for problem childs, maybe should up your labor rate a few dollars so over the course of a year you can get back the money from situations like this. $2 is nothing to a customer, but $2 over the course for 200 cars adds up quick

Hey do you have the vin to the ram so i can help you out with the harness. I know it sounds stupid but did you try aerosol dielectric grease in the connector. Those connectors going into that bosch pump are a pain in the butt and often your fighting an air pocket even though it clicks. Had 2 trucks burn me the same way it did for you guys . Thats why I spray those connections with dielectric grease and those connections slide in like butter.

Nice diag and my head would have been hurting too. If you R&R the connector, what's going to keep that new one from going bad? I hate to say this and I wouldn't normally do a "redneck" fix, but I'd rig permanent jumpers for that connector and be rid of it once and for all.

Tuition is expensive no matter which school you attend. MIT or the school of hard knocks, we pay for that education either way. Great job guys