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In before people get upset about the sponsorship. I was on the fence, but contractually didn't have a choice. Magic Spoon is awesome though - the topic of the video was my choice.
If someone is critical of you because of your size, that is their problem. Such ad hominins show that that person has no good nor reasonable argument to make. it means they cannot argue merits, only engage in strawmen and non-sequiturs. Stay strong, you are better than them. "I always cheer up immensely if an attack is particularly wounding because I think, well, if they attack one personally, it means they have not a single political argument left." -Margaret Thatcher
I don't agree with your conclusions. I don't think the current situation mirrors at all the run-up to the Dominion War. If that were the case, than the "insidious" organization that Garak and Quark talk about is the United States, and whilst I'll agree that the US Government hasn't always done the right thing, the US isn't the organization that the Federation was/is throughout the various series. If the UK, France, and Germany have a problem with Putin invading Ukraine that sounds like a problem for the UK, France, and Germany, not the United States. The ultimate question would be that are you willing to risk nuclear war with Russia over Ukraine. Are you willing to trade Kiev, or Kyiv, for Washington, NYC, or fill-in-the-blank US city?...
“No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever. There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom. Against that power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand. The Centauri learned this lesson once, we will teach it to them again. Though it take a thousand years, we will be free.” -G'kar (Babylon 5 2x20)
Makes sense as long as the oppressor isn't able and willing to simply render you extinct. The Dominion has shown they are able and willing at least a few times during DS9.
G'Kar was great and shows the potential that Tomalak COULD have been had he been used more in TNG; a complex adversary with many different facets and motivations.
@@DocWolph The Centauri tried to do that in Babylon 5. Lucky for the Narn, Vir was helping to get a lot of them out of the concentration camps, his fiancé admitted to being part of Eugenics project to "cull" aggression out of the Narn gene pool by massacre whole settlements. Lots of parallels exist in real-world, like illegal use of Mass Drivers by Centauri = Modern tactical nukes, if that genie gets unleashed on the world in regular warfare, it will be ugly. People can resist guns, jets, and tanks, but nukes will make this a war to the death without any restriction. Babylon 5 is sort of scary when it comes to political ideas and concepts. I do wonder though, who would Mr. Morden/Shadows be in our real-world scenario.
Even when the shows are done, Star Trek's stories still finds themsevels becoming relevant again. I just hope *"our version"* of the story has a happer ending... * edit I ways refering about Russia and the Ukraine.
Even after Star Trek VI, the Federation was pushed back into war with The Klingons by an outside party looking to weaken both sovereignties against each other. Hopefully China isn’t the “dominion” forcing its 2 most aggressive rivals in the UFP/USA & the Russian Federation/Klingon Empire into attacking each as it quietly amasses its own forces to bring its own vision of order to Alpha/Beta powers-that-be…😬😬😬
Descnding into the Mirror Ubiverse because most folks like being ruled over and become tyrants themselves. Now triple mask and get your jab or lose your job.
The genocide of the Maquis should have in the eyes of Federation citizens been seen in a similar light as the Battle of Wolf 359, even if we ignore the widespread sympathies for their plight the official line by the Federation Council was that they where Federation citizens in an active state of rebellion so the attitude would have at least been "we're next, we need to prepare" rather then believing isolationism could work. Honestly there may have been a book that went into that that I'm unaware of, the biggest issue the Dominion had with the Federation is how different of an enemy they where beyond just their ability to infiltrate and play the powers off each other, they also where an enemy the Federation couldn't just wait out. With the Cardassians and Romulans, they only had to wait while the inevitable failures of those government's systems did the work for them. For the Klingons, in a cold war every day the production gap between the two would favour the Federation more, but the Dominion? The Dominion had a quantitative and qualitative gap over them. In a one on one fight a Federation ship would often be easily out matched, and if that fight did go south for the Dominion a suicide attack would be all that's needed for a draw, a draw that would be a strategic victory for the Dominion as the troops and ship lost would take weeks to replace while the Federation would have to spend months training new crews and even longer building a new ship. This was an enemy where every day the Federation grew weaker in an already disadvantageous position.
Well, and until those other single species galactic powers, the Dominion was something of an anti-Federation: a collection of different species whose individual strengths were harnessed for the will of the Founders. They could use the Federation's greatest assets against them. They were a much better mirror of the Federation than the Terran Empire of the Mirror Universe ever was.
I just find the argument shallow as there are always safer places to start a colony in. When data had to evacuate the colony before Sheliak got there, it was their leaders pride that almost got killed. You may be morally right, but that doesn’t mean the better choice is to eat a piece of humble pie and live another day.
@@miamijules2149 I was disappointed with the removal of the Genesis exploration cluster missions. Despite being repetitive, there was a certain randomness to them. The storyline missions as you point out, are basically doing the same thing over and over again with no variability.
Neither side handled the diplomacy right before the Dominon War well. The Federation is certainly far from perfect, it's just by a long shot the lesser of many "evils" in the galaxy.
I do not often comment on videos. But as a second generation Polish-American, I pray that it does not spill over to there. Great timely video, especially with the reference to the incident between Ukrainian Military and the Russian vessel.
The maquis was never given enough storylines it could be expanded on it does remind me of the Irish rebellion. On a different note your beard is awesome I’m so jealous !!
I see what you did there.... the parallels. Clever. That's one way to discuss what is going on lately but focus on DS9 as the topic of discussion. Very clever
I think there's a difference between the Maquis and the everyday citizens simply wanting to live their lives. There's a line of dialogue, I believe in a Next Generation episode, which says that both sides gave up territory to achieve diplomatic peace, but where the Federation wasn't going to bother Cardassian citizens and let them be, the same could not be said for those Federation citizens now living in Cardassian territory. Had the Federation stated they would respect the sovereignty of Cardassian citizens living in Federation space, but any action taken against Federation citizens would be met with Star Fleet coming to their defense, the whole situation might have been, and likely would have been, different. After all, a Nebula class starship was able to engage several Cardassian warships and handled them fairly easily. That didn't happen, and the Maquis seemed to form with the expectation that the Cardassians could not be trusted. These were the people looking to fight and not being satisfied if they weren't fighting. They took it beyond reason when they developed biological weapons against the Cardassians, essentially guaranteeing that the Cardassians would join The Dominion. As for contemporary parallels, I'm fairly certain that no Ukranian was looking to fight Russian forces. After all, they had been a satelite nation of the Soviet Union for 50 some years, and simply wanted their freedom and not be a puppet state of Russia again. The better Star Trek comparison, I believe, is the Cardassian occupation of Bajor.
@@LoreReloaded it makes sense that the Maquis would start off as simple colonists, maybe had been in Star Fleet at one time, but I think what began as a defense force (as Star Fleet essentially abandoned them) turned into a quasi-military and even brought along some mercenaries later on.
A good what if episode would be what if O'BRIAN joined the Maqui? I estimate the fall of cardasdia in 6 wks. With the hero if Setlik 3 on board. Total victory is assured
Bet Damar wished when he decided to form his own rebellion these guys hadn't been wiped out by the Dominion... He coulda had ALOT more help in more then a couple ways perhaps even to point he wouldn't have been wiped out an found renewed numbers just by chance
It took him time to realize that he was chasing a shadow. Weyoun was able to play on Dukat's ego. Seeing the man break helped to star that epiphany in Damar, but it still takes tome for a man to come to terms with such a shift in perspective..
As originally created, the Cardies were supposed to be Prussia Germany (think Kaiser-Reich). The Dominion were straight-up Nazis. While the Klingons were originally Soviets, they morphed into something blending Vikings and Samurai with the help of Michael Dorn and J. G. Hertzler. The Romulans were a cross of classic Roman Republic and Fascist Italy.
I'd be curious to know if there's any way for a Federation member world to declare independence from the Federation. I know of a single example of a planet of Native Americans renouncing their federation citizenship, but only to become Cardassian citizens. Not independent people.
Lawfully, no. That was made clear in S4 of Discovery. Practically though, if a Federation member does declare independence, it's unlikely the Federation would invade to bring them back in. The Federation in fact lost most of its members after "the burn".
@@RK-252 In the example I gave a group of humans colonized a planet which then became a federation planet by virtue of federation citizens moving there. The federation never respected their clearly stated intent of being independent and in fact raised arms against the people in order to enforce a treaty with cardassia. In the end the federation agreed to allow them to become citizens of cardassia who agreed to leave them be because the planet itself wasn't strategically important, but who knows what became of them following the dominion war. So anyway, we have an example from TNG of the federation being willing to take up arms against planets who chose to leave the federation long before the marquis was a problem, but in this unique example they declared independence decades prior to the treaty. This means that the federation didn't even bother to fight them over it. They just ignored their wishes and traded their planet anyway. This at least supports your argument that they probably wouldn't go to war over it, but it's actually worse to act like they didn't declare independence to begin with. The core problem here is that, unlike in the real world where citizenship can be revoked, the federation does not allow revocation AND any federation citizen who colonizes any unclaimed planet automatically makes it a federation world which can be traded on a whim. That's definitely tyranny.
Looks a good cereal to try. Overweight as you may be it is encouraging to see you take charge of your health. True friends don’t shy away from acknowledging that fact but they never berate you for it rather they seek to help you get better. And if you don’t acknowledge what’s wrong then you can never improve. Take care and keep up the good work.
I don’t think “no grains” is a good thing though. Tell me how it is if I’m wrong. Just seems like empty calories even if it has a lot less of the garbage cereal has in it now a days.
In the wounded one general StarFleet vessel was able to easily overpower several Cardassian warships. I never understood, seeing that, why the Federation was so worried about a Cardassian war? I know w/ the Dominion that changed but why were they allowed to be a hostile power prior to that? Why not overpower and make them a protectorate? We’re told they weren’t always a military/warring society until they collapsed and the military pulled them out … so it’s not like their nature would be opposed to peace.
Dumb question: Wouldn't shields bounce ships off if they try to ram into them? Like i know phasers and missile drain them, but if they just ram i always figured it would bounce hard
Yea, shields can protect against projectiles or other vessels but it does damage just like phasers or a torpedo , a shop could also be destroyed by trying that to
There are a very few times shields have actually stopped suicide attacks; the one time I can think of outside of shuttles involves a Cardassian attack ship losing its engines and slamming into DS9's shields (not exactly a suicide attack per se, but same overall effect) during the Dominion's attack on the station. Given how shield harmonics work in the setting, it is possible that a ship deliberately ramming could adjust its shields to match its target's shields, in which case they can basically just slide in easy as you please. Given the afore-mentioned Cardi ship had lost its shields in the attack, that could be why it just impacted the shields and didn't hit the station itself.
The Maquis were never a nation state. What they were was a collection of what were essentially warlords who's primary enemy was Cardassia. They never created a working government nor did they work with each other extensively in defensive measures which is why they were defeated in detail so easily by the Cardassians.
Interesting comparisons. I find Gul Dukat as being a pretty good allegory for Putin. Like him insisting he was the Bajorans liberator, and also how he vowed to take back everything that was formally in Cardassian territory, eg, Putin trying to rebuild the Soviet Union.
Except Dukat and Putin are nothing alike as persons. Putin being an obvious Introvert don't really lend itself well to comparison with Dukat. Sure, their actions and outcomes are similar, but that's about it.
The maquis were able to stand their ground agains the Cardassians alone cuz, frankly, the Cardies technology was not that strong compared to the federation (to whom the Maquis stole a lot of their stuff), the klingon or the Romulans. Once the dominion came into play they became sitting duck on a lake surrended by hunters using air strikes. It's a miracle any of them did survive...
You overweight? But you're a picture of health! Perhaps the U.S.S Odyssey incident was an excuse to escalate tensions from behind the scenes (Section 31 perhaps?) and The Dominion fell into The Trap. It appears The Federation is like The Borg itself, you either join or they just ignore you until you become a warp civilization then they absorb you or slowly coerce you to join their collective beacon of friendship. The Federation probably already knew about The Dominion and wanted them to join them but it wasn't to be.
Great video! Everyone should be for sending tons of medical, economic, and even weapons to the Marquis but NO Federation troop can beam down to any planet where they could run into Dominion forces. It’s not good for two powers that have subspace weapons to start any kind of battle. ✌🏼🇺🇦
Let's be careful about this. Remember how the mujahideen were praised in their struggle against Soviets in 80s? While there is little risk of same happening with Ukraine, it pays off to be mindful both of the history and the future. To be mindful in general. Lest you end up looking foolish. Russia is an aggressor and thus automatically guilty(especially now that they started shelling everything indiscriminately - or at the very least it seems so), but Ukraine(kinda with all the corruption etc) and, especially, USA + Germany aren't exactly innocent either. Scholz really should've left Severny Tok 2 well alone. Especially because he campaigned for it for like 10 years. Won't even comment that senile fossil. They were CLEARLY PROVOKING shit(how else do you call shutting down SeTok 2?).
I hope the US steps up and gives the heroic people of Ukraine the help they need to defy the criminal assault of an oppressive authoritarian demagogue. If you believe that Russia will stop with Ukraine, you ignore history. Моє серце з хоробрими людьми України.
Oh for the love of Daizyujin. Stop. Perpetuating. The. Myth. That. Dominion. Territory. Always. Included. The. Wormhole. They weren't anywhere near the wormhole for years. Up until season 5 it was easy to go into the Gamma Quadrant and steer clear of the Dominion.
Who's saying the Wormhole terminus in the Gamma Quadrant was within Dominion's borders? I've figured Starfleet went a-waltzing through the wormhole, stuck their nose into Dominion territory, got the Dominion pissed off and _then_ the Dominion "annexed" their way up to the wormhole terminus, which the Feddies thumbed their noses at until shit hit the fan.
@@davidford3115 True, though the Dominion were just whispers and rumours to the Alpha Quadrant powers in DS9 season 1, with the Ferengi trying to find them to do business with them, which they only got close to doing (through the Karemma) in season 2
@@LoreReloaded And yet the DS9 crew mention multiple times after "The Jem'Hadar" and before the war, while in the Gamma Quadrant, that they're a long way away from the Dominion.
Seems awfully familiar. Just remember what the aftermath of Maquis was and REALLY PRAY it don't come to that. (Original Trek is so amazing, why can't nuTrek be anything except cringe?)
Federation obligations to the Maquis: None. Sorry, but this doesn't even vaguely fit with current events. The Maquis CHOSE to fight. Yes, even those who didn't fight - they chose to remain. They were SUPPOSED to be evacuated to Federation space. In refusing to do so they were in violation of the treaty that ended the Federation-Cardassian Border War. Now, they had every right to do this. They didn't need to get anyone's permission to start a war. But in doing so, they took all responsibility for the final events upon themselves. And they had to KNOW that being wiped out was a possibility from day one. Lucky them, they were beating the Cardassians and the Federation's half-hearted efforts to rein them in. Until the situation changed. The Maquis chose the path of war. And they were destroyed - by their own choices.
Yes and no. Remember how the Maquis started: native American colonies in the DMZ that refused to evacuate. The VALID argument of the Maquis was that a government several hundred light-years away were dictating terms that didn't affect those negotiating the terms (think American colonies and the British Parliament). Now, where the Maquis went wrong was that they engaged in acts of violence and terrorism.
@@davidford3115 Oh, never claimed the Maquis didn't have a good and valid argument in support of their choices. (Incidentally, it was only Chakotay's colony that was Native American. From what little we've been told, there were a number of different ethnicities amongst them.) And I'm not even saying their choice of war was necessarily something wrong. But from that point, they'd chosen to take their fates in their own hands. The Federation was no longer in the picture, and the ultimate result fell on them.
Sorry had to Thumbs down the video. Have a friend with in laws in Ukraine. And find any video that try's to compare it right now in extreme poor taste. If we would do it after 9-11 we would have blasted of the internet by Americans.... Very poor taste.
I fundamentally disagree. Art is meant to highlight the atrocities and shows us ourselves. It’s not disrespectful.. it’s a way to highlight and empathize… Atleast in my opinion. I’m ok with people disagreeing.. and I could care less what someone’s thoughts are on how I pay tribute to 9/11
The Maquis were an analogy to the 1930s. The parallels with today exist. Tell me how Russia taking Donbas or the Crimea is any different than the Sudeten Land?
The Jem'Hadar know that their "gods" exist. Yes, they are fanatic, but they see the work of their masters every day. Same cannot be said about the wormhole prophets. Keep in mind that the Dominion on the whole is very nihilistic.
@@davidford3115 But they are still religeous Zealots, the Fact that they can interact with their Gods would strenghten their Faith if anything. I wouldnt say nihilistic, Id say pragmatic
@@ottersirotten4290 Cult of Personality. I don't disagree that they are fanatical zealots. But their actions follow what has been seen with previous national leaders who cultivated personality cults such as Joe Stalin, Chairman Mao, Pol Pot, or the Kims of North Korea.
The "religion" the Founders imprint onto their thrall would supersede any other, and lead its adherents to believe that theirs is also superior to any other, along with allowing them to do nearly anything in the name of their "gods". Ring a bell with any of the followers of the various religions of Earth?
Most if not all of this could have been avoided had the federation tried to first seek out any powers that might let claim to territories in the Gamma quadrant. It is the utter height of arrogance to think you have the right and moral authority to explore any area that you do not own or control. To assume an area is unclaimed is also very arrogant. It was federation arrogance that started all of this.
They actually did try. The Dominion stonewalled them until the destruction of New Bajor Colony. And even then, the Dominion still refused to open diplomatic channels.
The little joke to modern events was a bit much for me as a Russian and American citizen with how my homeland is acting (reckless, repugnant, authoritarian etc) It did shunt me personally outta the video at the end but other than my own personal opinion based on current events it was a good video lolololol
I think most of us can differentiate between Vlad Putin along with his cronies and the Russian people. Hell, I suspect that many of the peoples of Siberia and Kamchatka are not big fans of the government in Moscow.
@@LoreReloaded oh of coarse same lol Putin and the government overall rn arnt being the best they could be to put it simply xD like not my Russia Lol I’m of Russian manchurian birth so I’m from the part of Russia people tend to forget exist lololol not mainland Russia
This is why being unabashed pacifists leads to your own people being trampled upon by people seeking their own empire building, the UFP is totally to blame for the Maquis having to secede to keep their homes and the Cardassians to be in a state where Dukat as able to sell their souls for a less than fair shot.
The cardassian ships actually had an advantage is raw firepower. The federation had technological and therefor tactical advantages. That is true in Star Trek books and even in DS9 you see cardassian warships one shotting dominion fighters after they switched sides. Going head to head with cardassia was a BAD idea and the federation was correct not to do so. As far as the colonies, it would just be easier to get over their pride and start a new one. Heck, even cardassia would help them move if they asked for it. It reminds me of when data had problems evacuating the colony before the sheliak arrived. The leaders pride almost got them all killed. There’s ALWAYS a new place to start in outer space. What dukat did was out of desperation. The Klingons would be more to blame. But imho the Klingons were RIGHT to invade cardassia and the federation should have helped them. But hindsight is 20/20.
I don't think the Klingons were right to invade Cardassia they weakened themselves and made the Cardassians feel bad enough about their situation that the idea of joining the Dominion was welcomed by nearly everyone. Gowron was somewhat tricked by the Martok changling but it was also based on the Klingon desire for conquest which they were beginning to get over after peace with their long time rivals the Federation had been cemented. It was bascially taking a big step back from all the progress the Klingon Empire had made in the last few centuries while a hungry predator the Dominion was waiting for its chance to strike the entire Alpha quadrant. I think war with the Dominion was pretty much inevitable but if all the major Alpha quadrant races had been united from the beginning they could have taken the fight to the Gamma quadrent instead of fighting such a costly war on their own side for so long. Part of this was due to interference from changling operatives but I think the fault lies with the Federation for not suggesting to every other power that they form a pact to defend each other if war with the Dominion breaks out. I would think the Romulans and Cardassians would welcome it after their intelligence agencies had antagonized the Dominion with the failed attack on their homeworld. They the Federation and its allies might have avoided the battles that weakened them before the Dominion war broke out. This was likely due to an overly optimistic pacifist approach where the Federation assumed they could avoid war if they weren't aggressive... Sadly they didn't understand the Dominion's conquerers mindset.
You criticize the Federation on multiple occasions for their handling of first contact with the Dominion and while there were mistakes made...I don't think their lack of attempts at talking was one of them. The Dominion were clearly spoiling for a fight and their first introduction to the Federation and the peoples of the Alpha Quadrant was mass murder without even a fig leaf of an attempt at "peaceful" resolution. No warning ships off, no "You are trespassing. Leave." to the colonists. They just rolled up and killed everyone. Those are not the actions of a peoples willing to contemplate a peaceful resolution.
@@goransekulic3671Lukashenko has that Cardassian look and attitude without any of the makeup, could even be a Cardassian in white makeup and a suit… 🤷🏻♂️
The Federation's handling of the Maquis situation was a complete disappointment. The Feds were so scared of war and blemishing their cushy paradise, that they didn't support their own ppl. Sounds familiar to RL that's exactly right. LONG LIVE UKRAINE!!! 🇺🇲❤️🇺🇦
The federation told them they wouldn't be able to come help them if things go bad. The maquis said they could handle it and would be fine. I don't think the federation is 100 percent innocent but the maquis are responsible for themselves.
Good analysis. While I may not agree totally with how the federation handled this, and I may sound cold hearted but these people were told to leave. The treaty was important to ongoing peace and the federation of course has the obligation to maintain peace. Even Picard said the federation wouldn't be able to help them if things go bad. They were told to go and said they will handle whatever happens. So when Eddington says that no one cares about them, it seems kinda irrelevant when the federation told them they can't come save them. It may be harsh but this is the consequences of not listening.
It’s cold but in reality They were warned not to settle so close to the border originally Then offered evacuation like you said You make a lot of good points I think it’s good to feel sympathy but at the same time apathy Apathy because being overly sensitive and concerned could have lead the federation into war it didn’t need Sympathy because those people were fighting for their homes However they should have realized you can replicate and replace things you can’t replace a life The federation was justified for acting as it did and preserving starfleet for conflicts in the future
The Federation coming to the rescue, is a bit like expecting the RN to protect ships of it's renegade colonies (except that the Dominion had "slightly" more firepower then the pirates of Tripoli).
0:25 sounds like an editing problem "federation of planets, a collection of over..." then it just jumps into the next sentence clearly cutting off that sentence.
@@LoreReloaded yep , thankfully , wasting their lives like that would be pointless. Still, it was a shameful lie, as we can see often on Western side. Short list of some anti-russian propaganda we have seen thus far: - Russian tank that ran oven civilian car in Kiev was a Strela-10 Ukrainian air defense system. - Video of Ukrainian MiG-29 shooting down a Russian Su-27 was a Digital Combat Simulator animation. - Video of Ukrainian pilot shooting down Russian jet was a screen recording from Arma 3 video game. - Russian cruise missile that blew up the side of a residential building in Kiev was actually a Ukrainian air defense missile fired by the Ukrainian military. Etc. etc. etc. Im curious if Russians manages to prosecute the recent Zaporozye nuclear plant incident. I love your videos
This is again a case where I'll question if writers' inattention to a subject is really Federation policy. The treaty the Maquis were formed to violate/defend against became moot , but I did have the impression they more or less fell as a miltary force at the same time the Feds were being pushed back on all fronts. Otherwise, you'd rather expect a different plotline. (Which they really could have done more with, )
