ANDRAS SCHIFF ON BACH AND THE CLAVICHORD 

Ah yes, in fact CPE Bach used to say: "He who plays well on a clavichord will also be an accomplished harpsichordist, but not the reverse".

Amen :-) !

I never claimed superiority of one instrument over another. I just claimed that Bach's solo keyboard music (like the Partitas and the Well-Tempered Clavier) sounds much better on a clavichord (which is a subjective statement, of course, but I can back it up with objective facts). Of course, the clavichord is terribly unsuited for playing with an orchestra, so Bach's harpsichord concertos do, in fact, require harpsichords. But the main purpose of the harpsichord, the role in which excels and is unmatched by any other instrument, is the basso continuo accompaniment, something the clavichord is completely unsuited for, for the same reason. Of course, instruments like the chamber organ, theorbo, archlute, baroque guitar and fortepiano (in later music) can replace the harpsichord as continuo instruments, but harpsichord is really perfect for that role. And, of course, the harpsichord is perfect for amateurs, because it is so easy to play, compared to the clavichord. So, please do not think that I somehow imply that the harpsichord is generally inferior to the clavichord. This very much depends on the music.

Krešimir Cindrić I disagree! Playing the harpsichord (or organ) is not just "pushing the right key at the right time" as you suggested. Of cause, you can play all the notes right, but that's not what music is about. On harpsichord and organ you can't change the volume of a single tone as you go along. You have to know very well, which notes are important, and what kind of emotions you want to transfer to the audience, and how you achieve such an effect... otherwise it's just playing notes, and that's not music, that's maths...

I have been playing the clavichord for over 60 years. It didn't take me long to discover that J.S.Bach's clavichord music is music is written for the 4 octave and 1 note instrument, low C to high D. The harpsichord music goes down to low G. Clavichord playing has a long tradition going back many centuries. The two main surviving traditions in the 17th 18th centuries seem to be in Germanic countries and in Spain and Portugal. Most of the german "Clavier" music of the 17th century seems to be for clavichord;, for two simple reasons. 1) The instrument was much cheaper than harpsichords, virginals, organs etc; 2) It was capable of an infinite degree of expression. This expressive quality was not only the famous "bebung" or tremulo, which is not the most important characterisitic in my opinion, but the fact that one can play:1: legato, slow and tenderly expressive melodies ( a certain variation of finger pressure) 2. rapid and percussive passages where the tangents bounce away from the strings, somewhat like he piano, and 3: percussive chords both forte and piano. You have to be a clavichord player to understand these things. The 18C German keyboard composers, of whome there are many, including of course the sons of Bach and people like Graupner, Binder, Haydn and many others are the originators of the wonderful piano music of the romantics of the 19th century. I firmly believe that the clavichord was the composer's instrument par excellence in the 18th century in the germanic countries. Get a clavichord and play it and you will understand. And it won't wake the neighbours!! Nicholas Tucker

Nice :-)

thank you Costas

Miklos record often in the same room as where I recorded the Beethoven Pathetique. He likes the ambient sound very much, work with 2 couple of mics. It's a choice with almost no compromise: detail vs room. Classical music is about the only genre where often you'll hear a distanced sound -as if you are in the audience- but from a recording stand point, this results always in loss of many details of the instrument, that the ear in real life often will pick up. This video ties in a little bit into the subject:

AuthenticSound May I ask where that place was? I think the space worked very well in your Pathetique video, coupled with your superb musicianship and instrument. That video really is a pleasant surprise.

you'll find it at the end of the video in the credits: Sint-Truiden Keizerszaal

Jeff Berrier I have a Tilney recording of the French suites on clavichord and treasure it! But it's a lot more than 10 years old, more like twenty. Maybe he re-recorded them? Anyway it has the very direct intimate sound that you describe. Sadly, to squeeze it onto one LP all or most repeats are omitted. So we await Wim's complete set!

Ray Kent This was-according to one review-recorded in 2009 for the “Music and Arts” label. I bought a digital copy of the album, and I couldn’t find a way to view a copy of the liner notes for details. I’m pretty sure it’s not a remaster. Regardless, it is a beautiful recording.

Hi Steve, that is called "Bebung", I made a video on that, you'll find it here: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-ID5QHJxGSoU.html

Thank you sir- This is new to me but it is obvious that the Bebung is an amazing dimension of expression! Does the amount of vibrato vary by pitch? I.e. More on higher notes and less on lower notes with same amount of key movement? Thank you - your knowledge and passion is inspirational!

Hi Steve, please call me Wim (that talks easier :-) ). The longer the string or the thinner the scaling of the string, the easier the bebung is. So you're right about what you write!

thank you ! Yes, it is a lot of videos, but in a way, these vlogs require some prep in my head, which is little time consuming and the recording of it is rather fast, once you get the technic out of the way. I believe by doing this kind of vlogging more, I learn the process better.

I do know that recording, it's on RU-vid as well. Hogwood was one of the great advocates of clavichords and a really great great great player.

Interesting to know that Glenn Gould did not like this, you mean the chromatic fantasia or the clavichord? I've always had the impression that if Gould had lived longer, he would have ended his career on the clavichord, he almost transforms his piano into one... !

lol he hated the chromatic fantasia said it was Bach for people who didnt like Bach its dark, mysterious, and virtuosic. my favorite to hear on clavichord

So time to buy a pack of yellow post-its and start now ! Nothing to feel shamed about: it is hard work, and starting is the hardest of all !

Thank you for your feedback! There definitely were clavichords with contra octave in Bach's time, in fact Adlung 1726 might well have been Bach's instrument. He for sure had clavichord, I know die-hard harpsichord players will deny that, but that is denying the sun light... He gave his clavichords to Christian, and in its will, the '3 clavier nebst pedal', are almost doubtlessly 3 clavichords + a pedal clavichord. Point is also: as back then, also today clavichords are not all equal. You need a very good instrument, with a fast base and relatively strong treble to perform these works. And what we do can assume to be certain: if Bach had personal instruments... they must have been very good ones! Thank you for the link with Leonhardt: he had a strange relation ship with the clavichord: expressing his admiration for it to the clavichord lover and at the same time not recording Bach's great works on it !

GL recorded just 1 French suite... www.amazon.com/Digital-Classics-Leonhardt-Clavichord-Recital/dp/B00000E3UX

Thanks a lot for the link, I did not know this recording !

AuthenticSound And, BTW, they were friends - Bach stayed with Adlung just after Marchand had run away from the competition. Adlung reports this in his Anleitung zu der musikalischen Gelahrtheit.

The more one researched on that, the more it becomes evident that at the beginning of the 18th c, in German areas, the unfretted clavichord (as the travers flute) came for a reason of expression. It is quit obvious seeing the context that the clavichord was the prime instrument to Bach and others. There seems to be a misinformation since Landowska on that, the lives on till today. I just finished the recording of all partitas on analog taperecorder, they will be released later this year in a vinyl box (with CD) etc. It is a fascinating and ongoing research!

Beautiful! Looking forward to the recording!

Seen in the context of his time, the clavichord was the prime instrument, so also for the partitas and suites. There is no written proof from the master itself, he destroyed large parts of his personal archive, and astonishingly little has been researched on his preferences in instrument choice. The today option 'it does not matter as long as it sounds beautiful', of course should be our main concern, but it takes away the air out of in-depth research that is very very intriguing at the least. CPEBach writes it very clear: the clavichord (in general) is for solo music, the harpsichord for the orchestra.

Yes, I agree. However, I rather meant the internal musical evidence - in line with Schiff's statement - that the French Suites are much more intimate from their character than the Partitas and English Suites and therefore the clavichord would be the preferred instrument for these pieces. Many of the movements of the Partitas and English Suites seem to fit the harpsichord very well. The late Prof. Erwin Bodky came to the same conclusion in his book on Bach. However, in the last analysis probably Bach was perfectly happy to have his music performed on any instrument - the sonority being secondary?

It also depends on what clavichord you're playing on, a clavichord is a really difficult instrument to make, as it was documented to be in the 18th c. The today's perception of what can and cannot be played (decent) on a clavichord, not always is based on excellent instruments. For the rest, I don't know, as noone really knows I guess. The only thing I would say, is that from the early 18th c, there is an evolution that started and lasted throughout the 18th c, and into the 19th c, of dynamic expression, accentuation, contrast, .. and that in this regard, it shouldn't surprise us that instruments like flute travers, clavichord, lautenwerck, pianofortes, were developped. That evolution I believe, was turned back by Bach at his later years, on the contrary I'd think. Bach fitted perfectly in his time, was a very progressive composer, even when he continued to produce polyfonic works when that was not in vogue anymore, he added harmonies and technical difficulties that were ground breaking and formed the rest of the 18th c. That is just how I feel it could have been ! But of course, when someone masters the harpischord really well, it can sound impressive too!

Some of the works are connected to the harpsichord, as for instance the goldberg. But even there, the practice of putting two clavichords on top of each other was very common. Even the word 'clavessin' or 'cembalo' used on title pages was most probable just a translation of the German word 'Klavier', so often close to the clavichord as well. For instance the Württemberg of CPEBach. In some other editions one would find the German edition for Klavier, even clavichord, and the Itialian for Cembalo. A lot to be researched here (which is exciting as long as we keep it relaxed;)!)

@@AuthenticSound 'claveSsin' is the the French word harpsichord used by Jacques Champion de Chambonnières (1670 Les Pieces de ClaveSsin Livre Premier, also found in J S Bach's English Suites. J. C. Bach's copy uses the French word clavecin with a French title Six Grandes Suites pour la Clavicin...pour la Anglais. Cembalo is Italian for Harpsichord, clavichordio is Italian for clavichord. Bernhard Christian Kayser used Suite for the claveSin. In the 1722 Note book Anna Magdalena on the first page (Allemande) of the French Suites uses clavesSin or claveSsin faite par J. S Bach, and does similarly for 1725 Notebook for the D minor Suite and the Fragment of the C minor Suite. Clavicymbal mit Zwei manulerin for ClavierUebung pt 1 and pt 2, the term that Henri-Arnault de Zwolle used to denote the Harpsichord as far back as the 15th Century. J. L Krebs in his Clavier-Ubung II Pt contains a Suite after the Style of J S Bach, for the ClaveSsin. Both the 1728 (Weimar) and the 1732 (Leipzig) of J G Walter Musical Lexicon list Clavessin, Clavecin, Clavicymbal and Cembalo as a pluck string instrument, the Clavier is a generic word for any keyboard instrument, and Clavicordio or Clavichordium as a distinct instrument. Walter's definition for Spinetta or Spinetto ein kleines Clavicymbal. J S Bach was an agent for his cousin's publication, J G Walter's copy of the WTC Pt 1 is among the earliest copies which had not been later revised.

@Chlorinda J S Bach would know Clavecin (French) (Used for Harpsichord in J C Bach's copy of the "Grand Suites Anglais" (title page) aka English Suites), Cembalo (Italian) piece for harpsichord 1725 A M Bach Notebooklet and "Cembalo Concertato" in J S Bach's hand Brandenburg Concerto no. 5 , older French spelling ClaveSin or Clavessin (Chambonieres useage) in the smaller 1722 A M Bach Notebooklet (French Suites) the D minor and C minor in J S Bach's autograph copy (his handwriting) and also found in the 1725 A M Bach Notebooklet complete d minor Suite, first movements of the C minor suite, A M Bach's manuscript copy of the original Overture pour la Claveçin a 2 Clav. (Clavier abbreviation for keyboard) in C minor with Title correction or revisions by J S Bach's hand which became part of the Clavier Ubung Part 2 as Ouvertüre nach Französischer Art and the Concerto nach the ItaliaSchen GuSto vor ein Clavicymbal (alternate spelling by Walter) mit zweiyen manualen. (Clavier Uebung Pt 3 is for organ), Clavier Ubung Besthend in einer Aria mit...vor einer Clavicymbal mit 2 manualen (which only reference 1 manual, 1 or 2 manual, and 2 manual pieces, but without piano or forte), Suite in E-flat major, BWV 819 which antedates the French Suite Eb, and A minor Suite is found among Gerber's circa 1722 copies of the "French Suites", and the manuscript also title these for harpsichord, but Gerber's copies have the E major suite absent, possibly not composed at the time. Only the Partitas (large suites, and we know what the French Suites and English Suites were composed for) and the Well Tempered Clavier Pt 1 and Part 2 and the Toccatas do not list a specific keyboard instrument. In WTC part 1 which contains the A minor Fugue which is only playable on an instrument with pedal board (organ, pedal harpsichord, or pedal clavichord) and in the early 1740's Part 2 contains AA and BB, not found on Clavichords (J S Bach's cousin J. Walter's copy (better known for his Lexicon with the harpsichord terms, the term clavichordium and clavichordo) of the WTC P 1 has a note above the range of C''', either mistake (and not noticed on the harpsichord's wider range), Cousin Walter knew of the early version transposed a half tone higher or followed an earlier measure motiff lower in the compass and reproduced it. There are a number of harpsichord works by other composers in full or as fragments In W F Bach's Notebooklet, which contains Allemandes and Minuets not found elsewhere, the latter contain GG also outside the C to c"" compass of almost all of the surviving clavichords. Which begs the question, had WFB progressed past the beginning excercises practice on the clavichord and had progressed to the harpsichord by age 11? J S Bach wasn't rich enough to own the elaborate instruments of Fleischer (Tortoise Shell naturals) or his student Hass and his progeny (who also used Tortoise shell, ivory, and amber in their keyboards), that produced purpose built clavichord with large keyboard compasses. Of the Fleischer larger clavichords (to my knowledge two of them survive) these were built on the standard size C-c''' clavichords plans that were extended, rather than purpose built production models, exceptions rather than the rule. The French Overture and the Italian Concerto use Forte and Piano to differentiate between the two manuals. The English Suite in A major also contains the word Piano in the last movement last measures. A reference to a 2 manual instrument? There is also one of the Toccatas that also has a piano indication. Among the organ works of Bach in the manuscripts a rare reference to stops, and keyboard manuals to play. We have J N Forkel as the source of J S Bach's favorite instrument. Yes J N Forkel was a student of W F Bach, corresponding with him and as well with C P E Bach (his favorite instrument was the clavichord). Almost half a century later, J N Forkel, the father of musicology, (born the year before J S Bach's death) wrote in his biography (the first bioghraphy for a Musician/composer) that the clavichord was J S Bach's favorite instrument. Johann Sebastian Bach: His Life, Art, and (art)Work. However, the subtitle of the book, translates as "For patriotic admirers of true musical art'' which is somewhat suspect. Forkel was a "Nationalist" (not in the current usage) one gathers he in so many words promoted the ideal of a German Nation. At the time of J S Bahc "Germany" referenced all of the lands that spoke the language (although Austria was well entrenched as a nation/empire, it was also included). A German Nation wouldn't form until seven decades later after the publication of this biography however it does take too much that his beatification of J S Bach as "German" rather than Saxon/Thuringer composer and with the Clavichord as a German national instrument as opposed to the Violins in Italy or the previous dominance of harpsichords in France before the revolution. Historically, for the most part clavichords were simple and cheap to build (Werkmeister stating the fretted clavichord cost was less than firewood), some itinerant builders (not instrument makers or organinsts) made them over the winter, a beginners instrument, which increased in popularity from the 1600's during which Praetorius negatively commented that the Spinet (harpsichord) was so popular and ever present that it was simply referred to as "The Instrument," and the term not being used generically for all musical instruments. As best as I can read Walter's description, he wrote that the clavichord taught musical Grammar, which differed from the Spinet (Bach owned one, as well as a number of harpsichords and lute harpsichords which claimed by his student and later son in law Altnickol was J S Bach's favorite instrument, (if late in life.) Regal, Organ, and Clavicycmbal. Elementary school used to be called Grammar School in English speaking countries. Forkel's "student" Friederich Griepenkerl, in his 1844 introduction to Volume 1 of the first complete edition of J. S. Bach's organ works, wrote: "Actually the six Sonatas and the Passacaglia were written for a clavichord with two manuals and pedal,an instrument that, in those days, every beginning organist possessed, which they used beforehand, to practice playing with hands and feet in order to make effective use of them at the organ. It would be a good thing to let suchinstruments be made again, because actually no one who wants to study to be an organist can really do without one." Although practical advice, there is little basis for this belief, as J S Bach wrote 6 Choräle von verschiedener Art (Schubler Chorale Preludes) which lists in the Title, for organ with two manuals with pedals, and I doubt that as the Passacaglia in C minor is based on French Organ music André Raison, Premier Livre d'orgue' s Christe: Trio en passacaille from Messe du deuxieme ton and the second half improvised by J S Bach as mentioned by C P E Bach that such a quotation and then elaboration was his father's practice. As to the Trio Sonatas, all but one are passtiches of other works, although very likely practiced on pedal clavichord by students. That being said nearly all organists owned clavichords (pedal clavichords) even among the French Armand Louis Couperin, the newphew of Francois Couperin owned one, as a method of practicing organ works. Or to be concise, if J S Bach intended his works for clavichords, why isn't there a single published work or manuscript with this instrument mentioned as such. As far as I can find from contemporary quotation, Papa Bach preferred students who had first began on the clavichord and then went to the harpsichord than students who had started on the harpsichord.

@Chlorinda J S Bach obituary (Necrolog 1753) lists his published works Clavier Uebung 1, Clavier Uebung 2 harpsichord with 2 manuals...An Aria with 30 variations with 2 manuals (not Clavier Ubung part 4, just Clavier Uebung), the published organ works, Musical Offering, Art of Fugue. Of the unpublised works notes the list "Six trios for the organ with obbligato pedal" (Which Griepenkerll opinioned these were for pedal clavichord in the 1840s), and then we proceed to the non-organ works. Twice Twenty Four Preludes and Fugues in all Keys "for clavier", Six Toccatas for Clavier (actually there's seven)...which for clavichordists with a mild case of confirmation bias would indicate clavichord. However, the 6 Suites for the same (clavier) are the English Suites (for the harpsichord in the copies), Six more of the same (clavier) somewhat shorter, (French Suites both in J S Bach's hand and others for the harpsichord). If I had a slight case of confirmation bias, I could equally state clavier infers harpsichord for the WTC, and the Partitas in addition point out that the Partitas in Bb, a minor, G major have notes below the commonly found C for the clavichord, and also the majority of the clavichords available where C/E short bass octave (similar to many organs in churches) lack the keys C, D, (which E was C, F# was D, an G# was E) and generally have C-c''' 49 notes. I would also include that C P E Bach recommended as minimum a full compass of C to e'''' better yet one more note f'''', for the as a minimum in 1753. The Harpsichord Concertos are mentioned as such (one, two, three, four (this being a transcription of the B minor Converto for 4 violins by A. Vivaldi). The Musical Offering does not state the Fortepiano (although possibly played for continuou, the Italians thought Cristofori's fortepianos as solo instruments not suited for continuou work, and most listeners at concerts (exception opera in opera houses) of the nobility, the wealthy sat next to the musicians in "surround sound." However, I am not into that type of mind game of what Bach actually intended, there's no references of his public performances at the clavichord not even in the 10 ft by 8 ft smaller room in Cafe Zimmermann. KUSC which calls itself Classical California always call Bach's Harpsichord works "Keyboard" Concertos and the Harpsichord Suites as Keyboard, Italian Concerto for keyboard (verus two keyboards) and invariably has Pianos as the solo intruments. During Prime time, Bach's Organ works are awful Stowkoski or ("gawd-awful" Ormandy transcriptions for orchestra (how bad? enough to make an organist weep, yes, I was a church organist for a brief stint, the pay was insufficient for the time involved), or somewhat credible Respighi orchestration of Passaglia and Fugue, or only slightly better than Stowkoski's level of orchestration for the D major Prelude and Fugue by Respighi (with the resources of a full orchestra at hand), good for a listen, but he barely hit single to first base. J S Bach had 5 harpsichords (clavicins) at the time of his death (without a will) of which at least one possibly more were rented out for income, and two Lute Harpsichord's (specially made and at the end of his life his favorite instrument), possibly an octave pitch (4') spinet harpsichord or one with a small compass spinet, aka Spinetgen (little spinet). There's a reference to receiving rent for a "clavir" (same spelling as Hildebrant for low priced instruments (compared to harpsichords) thought to be clavichords), and an addendum to the will stating that J C Bach received 11/11/1750 but these are listed as "claviers" with a set of pedals. On manual, two manual, pull downs or purpose built pedal clavichord. The clavichord enthusiast will claim "Aha, clavier means pedal clavichord," but the harpsichord enthusiast will state clavier means a pedal harpsichord as the French and English Suites are for harpsichord, but called for clavier. I lean towards clavichord, but the surviving Gerstenburg pedal clavichord to my knowledge does not have a full pedal board (missing C#) and dates from 1766, the J. Verscheure Reynvaanengraving of an eighteenth-century pedal clavichord has a pedal board and one manual, F not C as the lowest note on the pedal board (such as found originally at Oude Kerk Amsterdam, Holland, possibly the 13 pedals at the Cathredral of Toledo, Spain (the stops are listed based on F length not C length) both from the 16th Century not found in German pedalboards, where the lowest note is C The 5th Brandenburg Concerto harpsichord part is not a difficult piece until if the greater than octave jumps are taken in the right hand instead of dive bombing back and forth as many harpsichord players do with their left hand, which I wouldn't recommend for the clavichord. The music itself is worth the time, as outside of the Chromatic Fantasia (D minor), this is about as modern music you get in the solo. If you have a recording in the background at very low volume, this would be excellent practice material.

in fact, the clarity you get on a good clavichord (that's the essential point) is unbeatable!

Clavichord was considered to be THE solo instrument, harpsichord (there) zum Starcken Music.

yes...but first some Mozart now !

That was BIG in those days !

Great to read Alex, looking forward to reading you more!

When Bach would have known the Bosendorfer, he would have been Rachmaninov :-). I like Bach on the piano veeeeeeeeery much as well (you know that). But there is a research part on what we do as ""HIP"" musicians, and that is an interesting part that often is tied too much to opinions or habits. And I agree: the listener should not care, the performer must bring beauty. Period.

Rachmaninov? Not Beethoven? Funny, I always thought Beethoven to be the one who took and carried on the most Bach's legacy (but again, my knowledge is very limited). About the performer bringing beauty, and doing the research to perform the music as intended by the composer: my favourite pianist, Arturo Benedetti Michelangeli, went even beyond, as he used to disdain applauses sent to him by the audience, saying: "Applauses must go to the composer, not to the performer". Have you listened to Bach Partita no. 1 performed by Dinu Lipatti in his last recital at Besancon?

I was just joking. Lipatti, I'm curious, is there a link on YT?

Thanks a lot Luca !!

it appeared also to be the case in the 18th c., David, that the differences were rather big. Adlung clearly describes that, and, being tied almost directly to JSB, that is a major source.

So many of your sources are not in English and so I am contenting myself to take your word for such things. What I wonder about is this: if there were more common clavichords for the poorer segments of the population, then these would have been of considerably lesser quality. Do we have any examples of what would be considered a lesser instrument extant in a collection or museum? I'll bet we don't as the cheaper units probably died early and were discarded as they had degraded into junk. They were likely never good at staying in tune and eventually imploded on themselves. I may be wrong here but it is my impression that your clavichord is an example of what Bach would have considered of a high order of instruments. Maybe even among the highest, who can say. Still, since we do not have the luxury of key bushings to enable us to keep the action silent and the keys controlled, we must resolve ourselves to the form of key maintenance (i.e. rebushing) that the wood to wood and wood to metal guide system requires. It means that periodically a truly good clavichord would have to have its back guide tongues or the rails they ride in replaced (probably repaired would not do - replaced.) And the key pin fixtures on top and on the bottom of the keys would have to be replaced periodically as well. This may only need done once every twenty or forty years (perhaps more depending on the amount of use) but it seems that it would be mandatory. I know that the Haas clavichord in Edinburgh has an action that clatters like a freight train and chucks constantly. This instrument never received the described proper maintenance I have described as needed to keep a performance quality clavichord at the top of its game. What is your thought concerning this?

bastardtubeuser I thought Schiff was also a die hard piano player. There's a video on RU-vid of him giving a lecture where he rejects the idea of playing the Well Tempered Clavier on the harpsichord-only on modern piano. He sounded like a modernist and certainly not a historical performer. This was enlightening.

He obviously chooses to perform on a modern instrument with a kind of post-Glenn Gouldish approach (although very personal). The choices one makes not always tell about the background. In the interview, he talks about his great influence when he had age 13: a harpsichord player!

its from isreali tv I've saw. but I'm not a fan of schiff at all as he is a pianist, give me thurston darts recordings. leonhardt or koopman, the guys who help save the music.

the link is in the description box Thomas