If you nottice the adultery song, he talks about putting on his armor. She then alludes to this in her song. For him this is not him coming to be with her. This is him intent on breaking up with his wife. In his mind he is re-enforced by her going off as she has. For him she broke off the marriage when she couldn't come to his party. He tried several times for her to be happy but she obviously OBVIUOUSLY HATED HIS GUTS for being more successful. Now without a doubt he is the bad guy. for cheating. However, the angle looks a little different when he ios not simply giving in to temptation, but picking a fight to escape. Now this is a tragic story and your really can see her pain throughout the relationship. However the real cheat here is feminism. She was indoctrinated to think she "can have it all" Think about it. His whole motivation for the relationship was rebellion against his jewish parents! Especially mom. if two people want to live lives for themselves then they end up by themselves. I think the equality is in the fact that they both equally destroyed the relationship. Honestly if she had found success in acting, or mega success any way; then she would have been the cheater. Why? Because who is that hates the success of the one they love most? when they were "in love" she found her happiness in "I'm a part of that" Not I am happy for him but at less she can credit herself with his success. She is selfish in her worldview. in her song here she never mentions how she screwed him at the big party. Why? Because it was ok to disrespect him and not to disrespect her. So if she was rich herself she would dump him for a stud muffin as soon as he crossed her. Once again not justify him for being a cheating adulterous jerk, but you can not slide into homse base on your initial wild balls alone.
@@matthewsingleton8802 if his intent was to break up with her, why would he be there showing so much affection? They were laughing, he was rubbing her back/shoulders, leaning into her, etc. she was even giving him credit for all he accomplished, admitting her faults, basically trying to start fresh. If his intent was to truly break up, why would he try and make excuses about his leaving instead of telling her the truth? Yes they both messed the relationship up, she was annoying, overwhelming, and didn’t know how to show her love properly, but I think the real issue was that he wanted to have it all, or never wanted her at all. He got married too early, probably just to make her happy, because that’s what you’re “supposed” to do in your early twenties. He wasn’t ready to settle down and give up the fun life of being single, or maybe he was ready and he just wanted both? Not really sure what he was thinking, but I definitely don’t think his intentions in this scene/song were to break up with her. I think he wanted to go along with his charade a bit longer.
The thing that gets me in this song is that Cathy was ok with him going to the party as long as he was there for one night with her, like, she just wanted him for one night and he wouldn't even give her that.
This was towards the end of their 5 year relationship. He was checked out emotionally. Before he wanted to share her success with him and wanted her by her side, but she refused during that big fight where she slammed the door.
Yeah, he was completely check out of their relationship at this point and she was sick of him always abandoning her and cheating on her with multiple other women. Hence the line "And I know in your soul it must drive you crazy that you wont get to play with your little girlfriends". Anna did an amazing job with this role.
"I swear to god I'll never understand, how you can stand there straight and tall, and see I'm crying, and not do anything at all" - This line always makes me burst into tears, I relate to it so much
By this point Jaime was riding his success while Cathy was in Ohio (this is after singing she wouldn't return ever again). You don't think that fight where Cathy, instead of talking about how she felt, slammed the door on Jaime was immature of her? When at the book release she sang about refusing to be in his shadow and a housewife? She was indirectly trying to stifle his success. She was becoming toxic.
I totally understood why she slammed the door. If you don't recall, Jaime said "I will not fail, so you can be comfortable Cathy/I will not lose because you can't win." Like seriously bro? She's been to all of your damn parties and the one time she refused to go, you get pissed? She has the right to be mad, because he'd rather go to a party than spend time with his wife on her birthday
Gloryjab nope... she wasn’t singing that because she was jealous or angry at his success. she wanted to succeed on her own and not depend on him. she wanted to be able to be independent and her slamming the door on him was well deserved after his manipulating little freak out scene where he spat harsh comments at her.. she was not toxic, she’s human. and all she wanted was to succeed and have her husband care about her instead of just his job.
If it's clingy to want your husband of 4-5 years to be present on your birthday night and notice that he actually doesn't want to be there, then half of the audience doesn't understand what marriage is. She was willing to be there by his side and compromise for him. He was the one who started valuing the fame and attention over his wife.
I’ve literally never understood the amount of people who drag her! Like how is she crazy for putting her all into a marriage to be left alone!? I don’t understand the lack of empathy for her situation
@@nickjoy6389 somehow people always end up bending backwards to make the man not the villain in stories like this. I see it all the time, I have no idea how anyone can justify Jamie. He’s terrible
@@brandonrice2833 it’s just bizarre how people defend him as if most people aren’t deeply flawed and somewhat insecure. Like that’s normal. Like why are women in relationships expected to be literally flawless?
Don't you just love when she says "it must drive you crazy that you won't get to play with your little girlfriends" and he says "you're being crazy" when literally right before this he was cheating on her? Wild...
Right, because later in I can do better than that, she says the same thing. The question is, which should I consider a reprise? This for being the first song to say it, or the other because chronologically it is first.
I think that people misinterpret this and a part of that as Cathy being jealous and clingy where I think of it more as Cathy realizing that Jamie is purposefully leaving her behind. She's sad about not having his level of success, but she's not mad at him for doing well. She's angry because, espescially here, she just wants to be with him, on a special day for her, she wants to share her small success with him, but he's choosing to do something unnecessary that has to do with his already established career. Cathy isn't envious of Jamie's success, she wants him to be happy, but she's angry and annoyed that he wants to be happy without her but he's making it seem like she's the one pushing him away. I especially hate how people make Cathy out to be super clingy where, in reality, she's just asking Jamie to do the bare minimum as a husband: love her, be with her, and support her.
I always think the most important thing with this song is to think about what point in their relationship they are at. This song occurs just a few months before the end of their relationship and its both of them at the end of their lines.
No thats not true!Your the one who didnt recognize the flow of the story becase cathy is the one who struggling to find work and to find a time with jamie and jamie didnt recognize the sacrafice,struggle,love,care and support that cathy's giving to him.So thats Jamies fault
Definitely agree, she even shows that she would make herself be okay with him having to leave the next day, but it's when he won't even spend a single night of time with her on her birthday, he comes to see her only to immediately ditch her, that's the last straw... for how he's been neglecting to make any effort in their relationship for probably a long time.
Definitely agree, also people seem to ignore the fact that she also spend every summer in Ohio stock and she's not with Jamie. She has to miss him, and he never comes to her shows, doesn't support her like she does him,so of course she would resent him and be upset
All these people defending jamie makes me sick. He cheated. Yeah, their marraige was falling apart and thats always a two way street, BUT he CHOSE to cheat. He could have waited to sleep with someone until after the divorce. There will never be a way to flip that to make it okay.
You're not ready for this musical if you're not yet able to get past that kind of black-and-white thinking and open your mind to seeing it without the need to designate an ultimate villain. Maybe in another five years.
@@k.robertrichardson6779 It's usually easy to point out a person who will feel no qualms about cheating since you can justify it. Nothing justifies cheating.
at this part of the movie you can see that Cathy is doing everything on her power to hold on and be understanding . . but Jamie is just so distant and weak :(
He may have “tried to help her” in the beginning of the relationship (personally I think The Shmuel Song, while cute, doesn’t actually address Cathy’s problem at all...) but after their marriage he doesn’t do anything. He can write anywhere; why doesn’t he rent an apartment in Ohio to be near his wife after they’ve just gotten married? The most support we see from him after their marriage is the “I’ll be downtown when I’m done writing this chapter” line in a song that’s otherwise about how much he really would love to be having sex with other women right now. And “If I Didn’t Believe In You” is a smarmy, condescending attempt at gaslighting her into thinking that she’s just a mean and petty person who wants poor Jamie to fail...all because she’s tired of going to the same type of parties answering the same kinds of questions about how he checks out on her in order to write, just to end up alone at the bar by the end. She can miss a few of these events, you know? Especially since Jamie isn’t going to the majority of her shows. And him hitting inanimate objects like the mantle and pushing things onto the floor like he does in IIDBIY is a red flag for abusive behavior.
@@gloryjab8681 it depends on how you look at it. Being in a relationship is about supporting each other at different times when the other person needs it. There's a whole song about her following Jamie through him establishing his career. He didn't want to stick with her as she was continuing to get her career going. Although this comes from the perspective of a military wife that has put her education on hold to raise kids while my husband goes on deployments. It looks like Cathy and Jamie were growing as people just in the opposite direction.
"clingy" yall realize that they are MARRIED right?? if you dont see that. then you see the situation that Cathy is facing. shes not even given the smallest bit that a wife should be given. that is all. goodnight
The saddest part of this song is the end, where she says he obviously sees her crying and yet he's not doing what a husband, or anyone who loved her, would do. Which is comfort her or even try to help. It's that part where she realizes just how much his love for has died and how sunken their marriage is.
This song was towards the end of their 5 year relationship. Cathy by this point had that fight where she refused to express her feelings on inadequacy and shut the door on him. He was done and checked out emotionally by then and started/had already cheated.
the fact that she didn’t DIRECTLY accuse him and he still went “I’m not cheating” shows it was on his mind and he was (obviously) IT MAKES ME SO MAD GRRR
Cathy giving Jamie an out for not spending the weekend with her and he responds that he isn't even going to spend the day , her birthday, with her always gets me. Cathy is obviously trying and Jamie just isn't
There's just no further compromise. She has road ahead of her here, as an artist, and he's gotten all he feels he can get from her, and... _he'll keep rollin' on._
"And Jamie, you do not have to go to another party, with the same twenty jerks you already know, you could stay with your wife *on her fucking birthday,* or you could, god forbid, even see my show." What a good line, I always felt bad for her.
People say that Cathy and Jamie are equally at fault for their relationship falling apart, but I completely disagree. Cathy is jealous of Jamie's career, but in this song she isn't upset about his career going better than hers. It's about him constantly abandoning her for other people and for his parties that he doesn't even have to go to. It's about him never putting her first, which a husband should do. Cathy is aware of her faults, in the song she literally says that she needs to own when she is wrong. He's going to a party and abandoning his wife on her birthday and refusing to even see her show, which is clearly a common thing in the relationship. And she is always there for him at parties and such, and she's tired of him not doing the same. And he just stands there when she's crying, not even caring about her feelings. Cathy does have her problems, but she is not at fault for their relationship ending.
Right?! She isn't perfect, NOBODY is perfect, so what? He started flirting with other girls as soon as they got married and ended up cheating on her and not giving a damn about her career. In my opinion is pretty obvious who's the one to blame for the "failure" of that relationship.
Lisa Lecter Yeah! And besides it may have been she was just tired of him never being there for her. Besides, even if it were simply jealousy, it's understandable. She tries so hard to get callbacks and he literally never had to do anything. He is effortlessly cruising through life and his career and she' stuck following him.
Cathy's fault wasn't jealousy. It makes perfect sense to be jealous of other girls flirting with your husband. Especially when you (rightly) guess that he's cheating on you. Cathy's fault was in the beginning of the relationship, as seen in the final song. She entered believing Jamie could "save her" and Jamie then spent the next 5 (well, more like 4) years trying to do so. He always believed in her, he constantly pushed her to not give up on her dreams. Day after day she'd come home defeated and he'd tell her stories to cheer her up. The problem is, that can't last. You can't get your happiness from someone else, it causes too much strain. If Cathy had been secure in her future and her own personal happiness, then she wouldn't have been pushed to the side during all of Jamie's parties. There were times in the beginning when he would motion for her to come over and she would wave him off. On the flipside, of course, was Jamie spiraling from the moment they got married. He started feeling the strain of their relationship, and rather than deal with it in a mature way he decided to irreversibly mess it up. For many reasons, but largely because he already felt it was his fault it didn't work. After all...he couldn't "save her". Morally Jamie is 100% in the wrong, but just because he is in the wrong doesn't mean he is solely to blame for the relationship ending.
+Min-Lee Macdonald I actually felt like by making her hear about his story ideas, he was kind of rubbing it in her face. She has nobody to confide in. She wanted to be left alone in peace and then she was bombarded by her husband self-righteously telling her not to give up. When he has literally NEVER faced rejection in his career. He didn't have to try. I think her fault was like Macbeth. She had ambitious plans but had no backbone to go for them because of being rejected over and over. Her husband certainly didn't do much for her self-esteem, he couldn't even be bothered to watch her show.
The thing that gets me here is "I could come back on Monday 'if you want'". that's what told me the marriage was broken when I watched it because he should want to come back on Monday. Cathy shouldn't be the only one wanting to be with her partner. He should want that too but he doesn't mind. that is the point where there's no going back
Dandanz3112 And the way that he says it too, so like, 'If you really really need me to but I don't actually want to, I'm just saying this cause I knew you'd be mad and I'm covering my ass.' So non committal.
Carolyn Alquist it kills me that people say that she is toxic because she doesn’t trust him, he literally cheated, so what if she doesn’t know that for sure, it’s pretty obvious he did
Everyone criticizes Anna Kendrick, and says she isn't a strong enough vocalist to act in musicals...I personally like to show them this video and say SUCK IT!!!!
She’s very talented and very experienced but (in my opinion only, I’m not an expert, just a theatre/choir geek) there are a few times in this movie where she sings a note or two that just don’t sound right, or they sound strange and I find myself wondering why the director didn’t want another take. I understand the strong emotions can make someone not sing perfectly (and it’s not logical to expect a performance to be perfect), but there are just some notes that stick out in an odd way to me. 🤷🏻♀️ other than that, I thought she did a wonderful job!❤️
the fact that he says that 'i'll come back by monday if you want' he says 'if you want' which implies he wouldn't come back of his own choice he would come back if she wants him to. he doesn't understand what he's doing wrong which gets me, but cathy is just starting to understand that he isn't the same as before and won't really d anything for her if not forced
Love how she says “And you are going to choose someone else to be with” and he says “I’m not cheating” and she says “Yes Jamie that’s exactly what your doing”
I think he says "I'm not choosing" as if to say "It's my job. I'm not choosing it over you. I have NO choice." But it would be equally as interesting if he does say "I'm not cheating".
This point of the movie was towards the end of their relationship. He was done with toxic Cathy. He didn't have another walk for one last talk (?) lol.
@@gloryjab8681 She was not toxic, she wanted a loving husband who at the very least would care about her and comfort her. Time after time Jamie put others first and refused to be with her and then expected her to be fine with it. Yes shes jealous but her anger is warrented.
"i swear to god i'll never understand how you can stand there straight and tall and see i'm crying, and not do anything at all." that line honestly gets me so hard
Everyone talks about how the failure of their marriage was both of their faults, and I'm not going to say Cathy was faultless, but it doesn't seem even kind of equal to me? People calling Cathy clingy... for wanting to spend her birthday with her husband, who frequently leaves her to go to and neglects her while attending book events? All I blame her for is jealousy over his success and the fact that she bottled up her frustrations until they exploded. Jamie is still the one who was so self-centered that he only bothered making room for his career in his life, and he's still the one who cheated.
yeah in the original broadway production cathy is a lot less likeable character and far more neurotic than anna kendrick portrays her. I actually like this version better because it's a lot less "Just break up already" because you're rooting for them.
well said! I get so angry when people say that Cathy was the one that ruined their marriage. He was the one that cheated and constantly had to leave for 'book events'. Maybe she was clingy, but she just wanted to spend time with her husband, because she loved him so much, especially when he was writing. (his laugh).
I think the beautiful part of the actual composition of this song is the that the accompaniment truly shows Cathy's mood. its very soft and the same chord pattern the entire time, until she gets really angry and the like 5 aggressive chords come in, and the mood and melody changes, until the end where she calms down and the same chord pattern comes back, showing her trying to keep it together again. But, the chord never resolves showing her giving up. Almost as if the Instruments are her scene partner. Amazing writing.
Okay, so I see the faults in both of them. Both of them were wrong at times in the relationship .. BUT everyone seems to forget that not only does she ALWAYS go to his parties for him and book signings.. But she also is actually very proud of him. She just wants him to be proud of her too. She seems excited about this particular show .. As she said 'it doesn't suck' .. She just wanted him to watch the show. and the last thing.. It's not just any regular weekend. It's her birthday! Who wouldn't want to spend their birthday with their husband? Just saying. I'm sure they rarely get to see each other with her being in Ohio and him in New York.
And people call her, “clingy,” when… there’s really no other evidence to support this idea outside of Jamie bemoaning to his mistresses that all that he asks for is one little corner.
As she is in Ohio every summer, and this is his first visit, that means he has missed every one of her birthdays for their whole relationship, not just every one of her shows. But he invents this whole sense of competition in their relationship because she doesn't want to go to *one* party because she knows she will be abandoned and alone there. He is the needy and clingy one. If you always showed up for your partner and they never show up for you, you would have to be completely disengaged from your marriage and your surroundings to have zero insecurities about that. Most people would go nuts dealing with that, or end the relationship because only one person is giving anything. Not to mention that when they were dating, he was most happy about her lack of Jewish heritage. In 'Shiksa Goddess', he was waiting for someone *like* her, but she said in 'Goodbye until tomorrow' that she had been waiting for *him*. He never cared about her as much as she cared about him. I don't understand why anyone blames Cathy - is it just that the behaviour of women is held to a high standard while the bar for men is on the floor?
This song is literally her being tired of her husband choosing other people over her constantly including now... on her birthday. Yall are making this about her jealousy about his career like he didn't cheat on her and actively choose another woman over her literally
Truthfully they were both terrible. Him obviously way more but she didn’t help. She was jealous of his success and how she still hadn’t found any. Him cheating was bound to happen after she stopped worshipping him cause like she says he needs to feed his ego.
Jamie's falseness is very apparent in his misleading facial expressions and his touching of her as if fondly, even though he is going to desert Cathy on her birthday and go play with his fawners and little girlfriends. This scene is excruciating for the first 3/4 because of Cathy's sincere belief that things CAN be better. It gets teeth, however, when his final faux paux is revealed, and she has finally HAD it! Good for her!
I don’t understand how people think this song paints Kathy in a bad light at all. She has a point. She went to every party of his except one, and he made a huge deal about her not going, and he can’t even stay to watch her show? On her birthday?? And it’s even worse because in the movie there’s a scene which I’m guessing is chronologically before this one where he’s cheating on Cathy and he talks about dragging himself to Ohio. So I’m pretty sure he flew out solely out of obligation after cheating on her, because it was her birthday. So this whole time she’s talking about how they can work it out, and he knows that he’s unwilling to do any of that. I would just feel so humiliated if I was her
Jeremy Jordan's performance in this scene is truly spectacular. The first time you see it you think he's sincere and he really wants to stay with her, but watching it after seeing "nobody needs to you", you see that he's only there in body. Her deserves an Oscar for the layers in this scene alone.
So does Anna, Anna was amazing in this. From the beginning you could tell she was putting on a fake smile and trying to make everything okay, when it clearly wasn't. She was trying.
Dude it's her fucking birthday. I I were you, I would spend my time with her. No matter how busy I am. Even though we're struggling. Because I love her.
Harry Perez if I where him, I'd never have left and been the dick he was....she deserves better then a guy who just stands there and let's her cry over him and do nothin....
Then again, she's a grown woman pushing thirty, taking a lack of attention on her birthday more dramatically than Molly Ringwald in Sixteen Candles. Her birthday is the occasion bringing her frustration out, but this scene was coming and would have found any reason. The musical is more nuanced than most commentators here are giving it credit for being.
@@k.robertrichardson6779 Please don’t get married if you don’t see how the birthday has to be at least one of the nights you do what they want (unless you marry someone who doesn’t care). Most adults still care about at least being with their partner on their birthday
Ana Kendrick puts out this beautiful piece of work, plays a beautiful Cinderella in into the woods, legit IS A MUSICAL THEATRE FANATIC. And doesn't get casted in La La Land for an Oscar????? lol NO GUYS. SHE GETS CASTED IN TROLLS.
You mean actually having a well rounded authentic perception of the character there portraying and give a good performance I know we rarely see that nowadays
I guess I can't believe you really came And that we're sitting on this pier See, I'm smiling That means I'm happy that you're here I stole this sweater from a costume shop It makes me look like Daisy Mae See, we're laughing I think we're gonna be okay I mean, we'll have to try a little harder And bend things to and fro To make this love as special As it was five years ago I mean, you made it to Ohio! Who knows where else we can go I think you're really gonna like this show I'm pretty sure it doesn't suck See, you're laughing and I'm smiling By a river in Ohio And you're mine We're doing fine I think we both can see what could be better I'll own when I was wrong With all we've had to go through We'll end up twice as strong And so we'll start again this weekend And just keep rolling along I didn't know you had to go so soon I thought we had a little time Look, whatever, if you have to Then you have to, so whatever It's all right We'll have tonight You know what makes me crazy? I'm sorry, can I say this? You know what makes me nuts? The fact that we could be together Here together Sharing our night Spending our time And you are gonna choose someone else to be with No, you are Yes, Jamie, that's exactly what you're doing: You could be here with me Or be there with them As usual, guess which you pick No, Jamie, you do not have to go to another party With the same twenty jerks you already know You could stay with your wife on her f**king birthday And you could, God forbid, even see my show And I know in your soul it must drive you crazy That you won't get to play with your little girlfriends No, I'm not, no I'm not! And the point is, Jamie, That you can't spend a single day that's not about You and you and nothing but you "Mahvelous" novelist, you! Isn't he wonderful, just twenty-eight The savior of writing You and you and nothing but you Miles and piles of you Pushing through windows and bursting through walls En route to the sky And I... I swear to God I'll never understand How you can stand there straight and tall And see I'm crying And not do anything at all
cathy is doing her best to be proud of her own success even though they are generally considered to be less than her husband's. she has worked so hard without ever getting the recognition she craves within her field. it's hard for her to feel proud of her accomplishments, even though she has no good reason to feel like she isnt good enough or hasn't achieved enough. she realizes she cant make it work anymore when she realizes that he isnt proud of her accomplishments either. what a heartbreaking thing to realize.
As someone who’s BEEN a Jaime (minus the marriage and cheating), Cathy’s 100% in the right here. Ambition isn’t an issue, until it becomes more important than your relationships and you start hurting the people you love in search of fame. My strongest relationship absolutely disintegrated because I started getting opportunities that I valued over staying with my then-girlfriend.
The issue is that Jamie wasn’t there for Cathy , she is asking him to stay with her on HER BIRTHDAY to see a SHOW , In his mind he is like “ but i came all the way out here to see you, but only for a few hours I won’t even see your show”
@@sjie1874 Exactly! He came to Ohio simply so he could say “I came to see you in Ohio, you can’t be mad” That aspect is more of what my ex did than what I did. That sort of “I’ll go with you so I’m not the bad guy, but I don’t actually care about you”
the saddest parts for me are when she's saying that they will be okay or that they're doing fine. she sounds so hopeful. she tries so hard to convince herself that it will still work. huuuuuggggssss Cathy.
Those who say their equally responsible for the marriage falling apart, are taking the fact that they find Cathy unlikeable and confusing it with her being a bad wife. She may have been jealous and insecure in a lot of ways, but she put Jamie first nearly always. She just wanted him to make an effort and make her a priority. He couldn't do that and on top of that, he cheated. His fault. Full stop.
I know the drums aren’t in the original musical but I love them at “you and you and nothing but you” I feel like they really show her anger and desperation
^but, the writer that he is, he chose to _bury the lead,_ *because* we _had_ to make it about _her_ victimhood complex, too. Takes two to tango with an egomaniac, and _yes,_ he lost patience, and *yes,* he should never have "cheated," going full-into physical intimacy with another woman. ...Point being tho, this is an example of _two_ damaged people, not just one.
I just realised that if Cathy is always in Ohio each summer and this is the first time Jamie has been, then he has missed every one of her birthdays during their relationship, and the one time he shows up for her birthday he then insists on abandoning her. But he essentially cheats on her because she refuses to go to one single party (in which she knows she would be abandoned by him.) and he pretends she isn't supportive. He lays all the blame at her feet when he has never supported her. He is the one who twisted it into a competition and he repeatedly makes her feel bad for being less successful than him. Writing one story to cheer her up does not make up for how he chips away at Cathy as his success grows.
I watched this movie and it was...hard. Spoilers. He is a jerk. Ngl. Or he becomes one when his dreams take off. Yes, she was jealous. Okay. But keep in mind, it was her trying to be happy while he just got everything he wanted. She wanted to keep him close and he kept going off to better things, which is fine, but that was still his wife. He chose his parties and his work every time. She made time with her work. He did not. He cheated on her and she stayed faithful. Maybe he got frustrated, but being frustrated isn't excusable. This scene is powerful because she already realised that he already was cheating on her. I think people who look down on her forget that everytime he needed *anything* , she was there. Even when she was having a bad day, she was there. There's a whole song about it. Then he rambles on about how she's *his* inspiration. When she was doing nothing, it was fine, but when she gets overwhelmed with her dreams that *he* forced her to chase, he's not there. He's thinking about other women. He's thinking about someone else, and all she ever thought about was him. It was hard to swallow when they were talking about the party because parts of yourself can be hard to express when you feel like no one's listening or you're not use to just being heard, let alone the main character of your own story. She never got the chance to just...breathe and calm down. He moved so fast and she just wanted him and his time whenever appropriate. It's hard to swallow. You also don't want to come off as jealous. Maybe she wasn't jealous of *him*, but that he simply did what he wanted without a care and got successful that way, but whenever she tried, it just didn't work out. She's not annoying. Neither is he, really. He just got swallowed up because he rushed everything (he hints at going too fast a lot). She agreed, going at *his* pace, not hers. If she said no, he would have called her a quitter/said he *had* hope for her, make her feel bad she isn't comfortable. It's mind games, at the end of the day. He cheated on her after seeing she was upset and didn't at all take extra steps. Instead, he'd rather be as far from her as possible instead of communicating to her without yelling as well, doing the same thing he accused her of doing during the night of the party. She could have communicated then, but so could he. It's always leaned on the woman for being too "emotional", but what about men who don't even try? You see someone you love falling apart and your first instinct is "I can be here" or "I need to fuck someone else"? And you're thinking about *babies*? Yeah right. The same thing will happen with the next girl and she'll be left to heal, which she probably won't for a long time. But who cares? Not Jaime.
I personally have never seen this movie (but now I have it saved to watch cause this looks GREAT) but even without prior knowledge, I can tell how this definitely seems to be on him. Again, I don't know much, but she was literally just fine, maybe a little disappointed, but fine with him going the next day, as long as they had SOME time together, ntm, it's his wife's birthday, and he's gonna plan something RIGHT after, not even spend some more time with her? Anyone would be upset about that! No one wants to spend their birthday alone, and he could've waited to go hang out with people he's clearly hung out with a lot based on her song. It just seems as though she's trying so hard to make this work and be with him, and he just wants this to be something where he can say he's married but also be able to do whatever he feels like with no consequences, like he just has no thought put into anything he does. Idk, maybe I'm rambling about something idk about but this is a really good song and these two did so well acting everything out, sooo props to them for this.
Cathy wasn’t perfect in their marriage. She’s human, she’s allowed mistakes. But Jamie wasn’t making mistakes. He was making choices. He was cheating on her repeatedly, gaslighting, lying, manipulating, and putting his success over his marriage.
I don't know how people keep framing Cathy as the toxic one. She was all in. Her first song after they got married, not counting A Summer in Ohio cause they weren't physically together so she couldn't really tell if something was wrong, was about him checking out emotionally. Yeah, she's gonna get hurt and grow tired, refuse to show up for him when he didn't for her. However, it's like Jamie was looking for an excuse to cheat, his first song right after they got married is about how hard it was not to give in to temptation and what a pain in the ass it was when Cathy caught him red handed. If I Didn't Believe In You is enough to make a villain out of Cathy but A Miracle Would Happen and consequentially Nobody Needs to Know are just poor Jamie trying to escape being suffocated by Cathy. In fact, they blame her for those too! So whatever. Isn't it funny, tho, that real life Jamie wrote the whole damn thing and could kinda manipulate who we, as an audience, were more likely to feel sympathy for?
In the next song Jamie says how he could be in love with the girl he just cheated with Cathy on, and in Shiksa Goddess he says the exact same thing to Cathy. Throughout the whole show, if you dig deep, you can see that Jamie has been selfish throughout his relationship with Cathy. For example, in If I didn’t believe in you Jamie (though trying and seeming to be nice) tells Cathy that if HE didn’t believe in her then they wouldn’t be that serious in their relationship. The fact that he’s trying to be nice and still coming off rude shows you how mean of a person he is. However you do have to add in his point that Cathy never really supported him and didn’t want him to succeed (not necessarily but you know what I mean) because she was jealous of him. You can see that throughout the show and it’s true. But Jamie practically gave up on their relationship by the end and decided, since he “needed to love someone” it wouldn’t be Cathy. His love for her had died. I also feel that Cathy had always loved him more than he loved her, and keep in mind, they only started dating because she wasn’t in Hebrew school.
I think a lot of people don't notice. Jamie is super shallow and that he repeatedly says he has to be in love with someone like it's a rule illustrates to me how superficial his love is. All of these women are accessories. From that pov it's hard to condemn cathy for being jealous of his career. But their relationship did begin with her repeatedly telling him his love gave her life meaning and she admired everything about him.
RIGHT? THANK YOU. He idealized and projected fantasies onto her from the beginning and was somehow shocked when he fell out of love with her?! What an asshole.
4:07 when cathy says "and you are gonna choose someone else to be with, yes you are" jamie literally says "im not cheating" underneath her. she never said anything about cheating. you can tell the guilt was eating away at him, hes all but dropping to his knees and confessing all of his affairs to her
This musical is one a different wave length. The incorporation of other songs referenced throughout the entire show is a work of genius, I love this musical more than life itself. Two of the best screen and stage actors combined together to preform a beautiful rendition of an immaculate show.
Literally today I was trying to find some of those hints in the melody who's singing in what harmony in the next ten minutes and first of all in that whole song they are never in sync in "harmony" really until the "I do's" and then it stops again and they drift apart but Jamie says before the "I do's" he says "there are so many dreams I need to see" he says that belting and then trails off with the "with you" showing no confidence in it and then Cathy says "There are so many years I need to be with you" and her thing is she's cut off by Jamie before she says the "with you" so even during their fucking vows you can hear and understand the friction and where they are and their still so distant from each other even when holding hands at the altar it's so gripping I literally was just like wtf 😂when I noticed how much Jamie was never truly convinced, went along with it but never let Cathy get a word in either, the audicity in literally 6 seconds of music you can understand who's right who's wrong how they've been and how it's going to end up its just amazing
I also noticed just how much I wish Cathy's arc went the opposite way becuase "I'm still hurting" is her finally figuring out just how needy and on a crutch she was and through out the rest of the musical she can never fully say what she wants when she belts the "and iii" every other time it's only when he breaks up with her "with a heart felt letter👀" that she realizes the pattern and decides to step out and leave herself proclaiming and weeping the thoughts she kept bottled up and never told Jamie. With that final "and I" belt to the calm "still hurting" And she realizes she "can do better than that". She also hits the note in "when you come home" when she says the word" mine"." So proud to call you mine" because she hits the high note only when she's frustrated or angry but in that point it's in between the switch of loving him and needing him and it's becoming more possessive. It's so compelling. I love this musical the more I listen to it and I've been listening to it and singing it for 3 years now. And just picked up this stuff on my most recent listen.
One of the things that breaks my heart the most about this song is when she gets to the part where she's saying 'miles and piles of you', which is what she said in "I Can do Better Than That"
I feel this song so much right now. “I swear to god I’ll never understand, how you can stand there straight and tall, and see I’m crying, and not do anything at all” She’s changed, man. She doesn’t care like she used to, doesn’t love like she used to. I’ve done nothing but be there for her and love her unconditionally, and it’s like it doesn’t matter. I can’t laugh and tell myself we’re okay anymore-
this song is like eliza’s if she argued with hamilton. especially the “you and you and nothing but you” to me it somehow parallels to “you you YOU” from elizas song Burn. they’re husbands are both writers too.
Can I just say that I thought for the longest time that the lyrics said, “just when he ate the savior of Friday” instead of, “just twenty eight, the savior of writing.” I was so confused but shook it off thinking it was some metaphor I didn’t understand.
This song really summed up the end of my relationship with my ex. He was in charge of a guild in WoW, which didn’t’ take really bother me. In fact, I was excited for him. It was the fact that he had invited me to a family Christmas gathering on his side. Keep in mind, I did not know anybody there. In the middle of the party, he ends up telling me that he has to play a raid with his guild. To which I practically beg him to stay and not leave me alone with his family. He ended up leaving me with them and didn’t even ask me to go with him to watch. His family kept giving me these pitiful eyes and brought up how sad it was that he left me to play a video game. An hour passes, and he finally comes back to the party. By this point, I am trying to hold back tears and not blow up on him. He tries to play it off like everything is alright, and ignores the fact that he chose a game over his girlfriend. After he realizes that I am not too happy with him, he proceeds to say that he got off of the game early, just to spend time with me...in my head, I knew that was a load of crap, but I didn’t want to be rude so I just accepted his excuse. It stuck with me for a while, and I grew to resent him for it, even though he said he wouldn’t do it again to me. It was the fact that he made that choice to begin with, and stuck with it, at a family gathering, with HIS family present! There was a lot of stuff that eventually made me break down and leave him, but I would have to say that was the biggest one.
I always think back to when my husband chose to go shorting with his friends on Valentine’s Day and left roses on the table instead of just spending time with me after I asked to.
This movie is a story so familiar to me. Something that I am trying to move on from but it stings harder the more I try. So I keep watching this film and somehow the bitter and painful end is comforting. I wish I can talk to her again, I wish she'd apologize at least. But maybe she doesn't think she did wrong. And sometimes that's just it, five years later and that's that - still moving on is harder than I thought it would.
It's hard for me to listen to this song since this is basically the last few months of my marriage, except none of us were cheating on each other. I was so optimistic and persistent, like Cathy, to make things work, but my husband just wasn't. He and I also have a child together. We get along now, and it was honestly for the better, but this song still gives me a pang of sadness, remembering what I went through.
I love this because of how perspectives change when this came out I thought of Kathy as the villain. That she was jealous of his career and success but now I see it as like she’s upset that he chose his career and fame over her and their marriage!
First video I've ever been able to comment that I didn't come from someone else 😂👏so had to comment: anyone else not here from Dodie and just here cos it's a bloody amazing musical 😍 x
