In this episode of From The Luthier's Workbench, I talk about Aqua Coat Grain Filler, how awesome it is and how to apply it on a guitar body to get a smooth finish. Aqua Coat Grain Filler: amzn.to/2s135pO
Thank you so much for taking the time to make these videos. I am in the the infancy stage of making guitars and this information has been vital for me. You are really helping speed up this learning curve dramatically.
So your next step was applying an oil based wipe on varnish, similar to Arm R Seal? You didn’t need to apply a dewaxed shellac or something else to ensure that the oil based will stick?
I tried this method out and really not as easy as he makes it look. You have to be very careful to not sand thru the shellac coat and the dye/stain. The product when dry does leave streaks or strokes depending on how you applied it. Sanding does remove these but you have to be fairly careful. I also find that as least with swamp ash that you will need at least 3-4 applications of this stuff to get close to a smooth flat surface if that is what is wanted. Maybe adding a very small amount of water to a spoonful of aqua coat may help in applying the product. I compared it with using the Timbermate grain filler and for me that was easier as you can apply that before the dye/stain applications and sand normally to get a very smooth flat surface. You then can dye/stain over that to get the coloration you want and then lock the color in with the Zinsser Bullseye shellac before doing the clear coats etc.
Polyester acrylate with fumed silica microspheres ( Konasil ) is the basis of non shrink fillers add water colours to shade or natural wood dust in dark woods . UV resins glues like Titebond , Gorilla poly acrylate , etc with Konasil ( careful with this as it's very very fine and as light as air ) you can add the sanding dust from the wood you have just sanded . Thin with water to suit .
Hi. Just want to say that there are some water-based fillers that don't shrink! Try GoodFilla's CLEAR grain filler mixed with sawdust. Or on it's own. Very easy to use!
PS: You mentioned tinting AquaCoat. They also make a product called "X-119 Hi-Build Sanding Sealer." No one seems to know exactly why that would be used rather than regular Aquacoat :-) but it's relatively thin, like Elmer's Glue. So I've mixed that with dyes and used it over regular Aquacoat. It seemed easier to control the thickness, and hence the amount of tint.
Aqua Coat's grain filler is formulated to fill deep grain and pores. Usually, it is applied, allowed to dry, and sanded back so that it will remain only in the deep grain and pores. This process usually has to be repeated 2-4 times in order to completely fill the grain and pores. However, sanding it back will likely expose raw wood on the surface while leaving it in the deep grain and pores. To prevent the clear topcoats from soaking into the raw exposed wood, several coats sanding sealer can be applied. Using the sanding sealer will reduce the number of topcoats that are needed to achieve a good build. You can tint the filler, usually with a dark color, in order to enhance the appearance of the grain and pores. You can also tint the sanding sealer in order to give the wood an overall color. However, I don't recommend tinting sanding sealer since it has to be sanded smooth before applying the topcoats. Instead, I recommend tinting the first coat or two of your clear topcoat. If you apply the first couple of tinted clear coats as soon as they are dry to the touch, they will bond together without needing to scuff sand between coats. After the last tinted topcoat has completely cured, you can apply your final clear topcoats (without any tint). Let the clear topcoats cure completely before level sanding and buffing.
@@HighlineGuitars Your first paragraph above is way more than I've been able to learn from talking with Aquacoat! I guess I should not be surprised. I have been using the grain filler first, as you described. But trying not to sand down to bare wood. This is because the X-119 Sanding Sealer turns the wood a darker color, so sand-thru spots are visible. (Goal is translucent dyes over top) The other problem that I've been trying to solve: I've used Solarez for the top coats, and any dye can severely impede UV cure. Hence the pigmenting of the X-119. Before applying the Solarez. It all feels a bit complex and tentative, but I haven't found any way to simplify it yet.
I got some of that stuff on my floor and didn't clean it up right away, I had to chip it off with a screw driver. It filled in the divots in the tile. It dries hard.
I can appreciate your concern for using safe, eco friendly products. Once I got a big whiff of a chemical I applied to my project and just for shits and grins checked the label - Skull and Crossbones! Will cause death! Not might cause death- that was a big wake-up call for me. Obviously, I didn't get a lethal dose, but I read labels now.
In your videos, before topcoats, I seem to be missing the steps where many say to dampen the raw wood, sand to 180, dampen, sand to 220, dampen, sand to 320. I have a kit guitar with an ash body and maple neck. Do I need to dampen with wet rag and sand before everything else (stain, sealer)? For both woods? I bought AquaCoat and followed your direction to apply stain first, apply a sealer, and then use the grain filler for my ash body before the topcoat. But should I have tried to raise the grain first with plain water? BTW, your videos are my "bible" that I refer to daily :)
If you have already applied sealer, stain, and grain filler, it’s to late to raise the raw wood grain. But don’t worry, it really doesn’t do much anyway.
@@HighlineGuitars So, as a general rule, do you recommended the wet rag treatment before anything else? Is that what you do now? Thanks for the quick reply on a holiday no less ;)
I'm glad your going over grain fillers. I've wanted to build guitars for years. I'm only now in a position to do so. I'm just starting out so I'm a sponge. Lol thank-you for your content.
Dampen wood, apply poly, let dry and sand. Poly will always fill wood grain and is the reason it needs many coats when using it because it fills grain. This is a good way to do it if it is going to be a natural finish. For a painted surface the best filler is bondo and will always be bondo because it is chemically made to withstand all temperature changes and climate changes without failure, if you want to take it a step further then apply spot and glazing putty to fill pin holes, I can guarantee you that after primer you will be less likely to get orange peel and it will be a nice finish. These are the same steps a person does when trying to get a show car finish on anything, that and a whole lot of sanding to about 5000 grit. It makes for a beautiful finish. If it doesn't you did something wrong. The specialized wood fillers dries to a type of plastic and are advertised as such so anything that does the same can be used to fill it Polyurethane dries to a plastic as well. Personally I like to use poly with sand dust mixed in so masks a bit better. I have also used just the wood glue with sanding dust poured on top and allowed to dry, I filled the tiny crack I had in the center line where it wasn't absolutely flat and everyone who looked at it couldn't even tell where the line was. It is a way for a seamless joint and worked well for me at least. Also the addition of the sanding dust pulls moisture from the glue allowing it to have a much faster curing time. I will admit I have also used superglue to fill a gouge and then sanded it flat. As with everything your final product will reflect how much work you did. If it isn't seamless then you were too impatient.
I put two coats of non water based poly on matte finish and found all kinds finish problems in the wood can I put the aqua over the poly and if I can then sand the aqua will I have to put another coat of poly
There are too many unknowns in your question, so I'll tell you what I would do. I would stain the body first with the India ink, let it dry and apply a clear drying grain filler like Aqua Coat.
How will you know if you’ve applied enough and grain filler, and how will you know you’re finished sanding? I have a mahogany body I’m working with and it feels smooth, but on certain angles just doesn’t look all that even.
If you can lightly drag a fingernail over the surface and feel the grain and pores, you need to apply more filler and keep sanding. If the surface shows high and low spots, like waves, you need to block sand with a longer sanding block to even it out. You'll know you're done when you hold the surface up your eye toward a bright light source. It should look smooth and most importantly, consistent.
Really like this video, so well explained!! As a newbie in the world of guitar making, I had seen that after applying the grain filler, usually then goes a coat of sanding sealer and then the final coat, in the case of a high gloss finish. With this product, that same procedure is required to obtain the high gloss?? I´m thinking about compatibility between products, but I don't know if there are issues related to using one or another sanding sealer after the application of the aqua coat grain filler
I'm puzzled... the aqua coat dried smooth on my guitar but shrank when I applied a Dupli-color primer to basically what it was before I applied it. Did the acrylic primer just melt away the Aqua Coat? I'm stuck wondering should I just reapply or forget and move to another wood filler.
@@richpeltrick1492 You'll have to ask the Dupli-color and/or the Aqua Coat people. Dupli-Color is a car paint. It's intended for use over metal. I doubt it's compatible with products meant for woodworking. You should consider a filler meant for cars. Ask the Dupli-Color people what they recommend.
here we go with an everyday grain filler , last ep of yours with the plaster /black paint mix left me wondering ...and once again wondering why you don't talk a bit o shop about the woods you're using ? this ones another bea-uty !
I don't know if you'll see this and I know it isn't the right video but I couldn't find a vid about my problem. I have a poplar body I sanded to 320 but it's still rough almost fluffy. Nothing I do seems to help. I tried Aqua Coat and as I was rubbing it in you could see where the rag I was using was leaving traces of the rag like the wood was raised and rag was sticking to it. I had to sand all the Aqua coat off just to remove the remnants of the rags. The poplar just won't sand right. Do you have any ideas? Thanks Rob
So wait, if you add a grain filler before a primer, would that prevent wood grain from appearing in the final product? Also what is that thick resin that cheap guitar companies use to block wood grain? Is it actually supposed to prevent the wood grain from showing after the guitar has been painted?
Thanks so much! You answered a question I’ve had lingering in that I have to apply my stain before grain filler. Can I use oil based stain or water based only? I did catch that if I use water based I have go apply spray shellac after. Also, can I add black to grain filler even though I already stained the wood? Will it show through? Thanks in advance!
Hey that's a great body! I'm building a korina tele/LP hybrid right now that's very similar. I've already sprayed a few coats of clear nitro. Can I still use this over that and then put on my final coats?
Have you tried doing it before your oil color/japan drier process? in other words, using those in lieu of stain or dye, still with a translucent effect, but over the filler?
So this will not take stain or dye... But can I use this for my grain filler and then spray Nitro over the top as my finish? For instance, Behlens color toner Nitrocellulose Lacquer. Will that work to add the color to my guitar build? I was planning on doing a burst finish with Behlens Encore Brown and Starcast Amber rattle cans... thanks for the reply!
I know this vid is a couple of years old...I recently started finishing a guitar and have made it through half of the clear coating process over sunburst toners. I am using behlen rattle can lacquers. The wood filler is showing signs of shrinkage and in some spots, wetsanding back the clear still has low spots. Do you know of anything I can fill with at this stage without sanding it all back? Or any other method to cure this?
I would apply several coats of Aqua Coat wood grain filler and let them dry a couple of days. Sand the surface smooth and spray your Behlen lacquer topcoats. Let the topcoats cure for at least 4 weeks before wet sanding and buffing. You didn't mention whether you sprayed any vinyl sealer before spraying the lacquer, but that usually prevents low spots.
I tried Crystalac,sp, but I think they’re similar. If not, disregard my take on this. I couldn’t get it to NOT get into my color, even after applying sand omg sealer. It was maddening. Edit: I had typed everything above before I heard your comment on the Bullseye Shellac, but will this process work on rosewood?
Thanks for the video! Considering the fact that an absolutely perfect pore filling is only theoretical (100% fill AND zero film leftovers), what would be a better goal to shoot for: perfect fill with the risk of having slight film here and there, or insisting on having zero film leftover also in the expense of have, say a only 90% +- filling (because of some slight sanding through the filler here and there)? I will be using Crystalac Britone over it.
@@HighlineGuitars Of course it's completely theoretical :) It's just that I'm afraid of having some haze because of leaving some film of the aquacoat bellow the Britetone. So I tend to want to sand quite thoroughly, but.. then I'll probably sand through SOME of the pores. So I'm not sure what would be the solution. It's very possible that I'm over complicating things, as this is the first time I'm using grain filler.
@@HighlineGuitars well, the manufacturer didn't mention nitrocellulose lacquer finishing process. Because you have a massive experience I thought you can give a tip about drying times of water based filler before spraying any nitrocellulose product. If the manufacturer mentioned that details I will never bother you with that question...
@@Matan2222222 Sorry, there are no tips, tricks, or secrets to using Aqua Coat with Nitrocellulose. It says right on the label to let it dry overnight.
Hi, would this work on pine or spruce? I want to use true oil on top. I thought id wash coat with shellacthen the aqua coat then true oil .what do you think?
I doubt you'll see this but I'm using India Ink for my color base. I'm using a sealer first, then I was going to use the Aqua Coat then the india ink. With what you just said should I use the sealer first then the ink then the Aqua Coat? Finish will be oil based minwax poly. I'm using sealer cause my body is Paulownia which is the wood version of swiss cheese and I only got a pint of Aqua Coat and didn't think it would be enough.
@@HighlineGuitars NICE! Finally someone knows what to do..lol Thank you very much. What about Yellow Pine? I have a body made with that coming as well.
@@HighlineGuitars I did just what you said. I wound up using 3 coats of sealer cause it just wasn't helping much then 4 coats of Aqua Coat again it didn't help much. I followed the directions. Go across the grain then remove the excess with the grain. The road rash/grain on this Paulownia body is so bad I gave up and just sanded it smooth as I could. I waited 24 hours, sprayed the min-wax oil based poly over and it was a disaster. First there must have been 100 little spots where the poly didn't take all about the size pencil point but the real horror? The entire body turned hazy white. I'm at a lose. It would seem the poly didn't agree with something I just don't know what. I told several others what materials I was using and they all said oil based poly would be fine. It was humid outside and the temp was around 70F. So now I'm faced with sanding the body down yet again which honestly I don't wanna do. I might just chuck it and get a new body. Do you have any clue as to why it turned hazy white? And why the poly didn't take in all those tiny areas? They look like a bubble popped in the gloss poly.
@@twootters7433 No idea. Sounds like contamination. Could be in your spray equipment, the wood itself or even the poly. Like I always say TEST ON SCRAP!!
@@HighlineGuitars I took that advice. And now that you mention it it might be the wood. The only variable between the scrap and the body? The wood. The scrap was pine. It's all I had. The body isn't. The scrap was fine. Maybe I should change my top coat and give that a try. Thanks again for your input. It has been very helpful!
@@HighlineGuitars Thanks, I had used ZPoxy, and found that I was working against the clock in many cases. Still worked well when I could manage the time limits for cure. Then found Solarez ("I cant believe it's no lacquer sealer"), which has no equivalent time limits. But wanted to find something to keep that from sinking in. I had been trying Aquacoat under. Maybe chicken - egg problem in a way. When I've done tests, the 'tone' of the wood changes, so I was trying to use Aquacoat to keep a neutral base that could be translucently tinted without getting too dark. I'll give Z-poxy another look. Thanks for your cool videos! Nice to have an experienced perspectivve as a reference point!
@@HighlineGuitars Thanks for the recommendation, Chris. I tried the Solarez spheres with ICBINL, but so far, my attempts look a bit cloudy. It will be useful for deeper fills though, where opacity is not an issue. Seems like a cool product. Interesting that you're using Z-Poxy rather than ICBINL. I've had an easier time with ICBINL, but haven't used Z-Poxy for a while. Maybe I should try it again.
Can you point me to a video of yours that you use the "joint filler acrylic mix" ? I need to see other options as well .. I will try the pumice method that you posted on another video (thank you for your feedback by the way) ... and I have already tried the Aqua Coat as a pore filler but I am not happy at all with the results on my applications ... so I will try next pumice/stain/sealer approach and maybe you can point me to a water based approach on a video of yours .. Let me know at your earliest convenience. Thank you
Thank you - watching it now - By the way, on this current video you gave me a great idea to try : dilute the Aqua Coat with water to make it almost like a pancake mix consistency and apply with a foam brush and see if I get better results. Also - another idea that came to my mind, is to still make a diluted mixture as explained above but instead of water trying to mix in some Minwax Polycrilic so I am adding in a way the binder needed. Lots of experiments to make .. Thank you again for your feedbacks. Watching now the new video you directed me to. Thanks again.
Hello, I'm actually testing this product (I'm trying to ban all solvent from my finishes) and it's very simple to applicate. I wonder if it's were compatible with crystalac clear top coat? And also if it's were compatible if I fix the stain with shellac (if you have a shellac product to advise me) ? I wish you a happy new year from France!
I discovered this after I applied a layer of epoxy to a top. The wood drank all the epoxy in the darker areas. My question is...can I use this after what I've done, then put another layer of epoxy down so the wood won't drink it all? Epoxy is not cheap.
What would you suggest for a project of mine that’s getting hand painted stuff on it in water color paint or acrylic (I have the option) for a filler basecoat and clear so it all works together and I get a nice finish with no cracking or separating etc. I’m using a basswood body. Thanks!
Either Aquacoat (amzn.to/2JaZSct) or Crystalac Grain Filler (amzn.to/2spKLFw) for the basecoat and then a waterbased white acrylic primer. I'm not sure about using watercolors, but water-based acrylic should work well. For a top coat, I'd go with Crystalac Brite Tone (amzn.to/2Hbp68I).
Highline Guitars so I could use either of those fillers and paint over it with a grey acrylic as my base coat and it would be fine? Can I use a krylon brand satin spray paint as a finish? Or would you recommend a different satin product to use with the acrylic paints
You can stain over it as long as you sand all of it off the surface leaving it in just the pores and grain. If there is any left on the surface, it will block the stain. I have found that it is much better to stain first then apply the filler. Or you can tint the filler with your stain as long as it’s water-based.
Is there any finish you can apply that you don’t need to fill the grain ...I just want a Colour on it ..and not have to buy all these chemicals and spend all the time preparing...something fast and easy..
Sure. Danish oil. Keep in mind you will feel the texture of the grain and pores if you don't fill them. Some people like the surface super smooth and some people like feel of unfilled grain texture.
It would be better to spray multiple coats of clear, untinted lacquer first to fill the grain. Then wet sand with 400 grit to smooth the surface. Next spray 1 or 2 coats of tinted lacquer and finish by spraying multiple coats of clear untinted lacquer as your final protective clear coats. If you spray many coats of tinted lacquer, the color will get darker and less transparent.
