Antonio Casimir Cartellieri - Clarinet Concerto No.3 in E-flat major 

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If you want

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MSLMP library on web

This concerto is now published with a piano reduction by Trio Musik Edition in their Clarinova series.

Offenbach s’est inspiré de sa première cadence

I assume because he was born in Danzig (or Gdańsk) which belonged to the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth at the time. He also worked as court composer for Prince Michał Kazimierz Ogiński in Poland before moving to Vienna and then subsequently to Bohemia (a part of Austria).

Filip Swital J So? I lived and worked in the USA for seven years, yet I am not half-american, or “Italian born”. I find it rather funny. This happens only in the English speaking world, as far as I know, and it creates confusion. What you say is true but irrelevant to one’s national origins. So are Rachmaninov and Stravinsky Russian-born composers? I don’t think so. The reason I don’t like that is that “Russian-born” would take away almost all of the national heritage, like someone that was just born in Hungary from Japanese parents, or whatever. But Rachmaninov and Stravinsky were not from the US, Händel was not English, Lulli was not French.

@@skellez83I do agree that assigning other nationality to people than their heritage suggests is rather dissagreable. Marie (Skłodowska) Curie wasn't French, in my opinion, even though she was naturalised and made life there. She was still Polish through her parents, her early life and her patriotism towards occupied Poland. Having said that though, Cartellieri was born in Poland and spent his childhood there. That may not be enough for some to say that he was indeed Polish due to his parents' nationalities. Furthermore, nationalism as it stands, was a concept that was still to come during Cartellieri's lifetime. Not to mention that Gdańsk was largely international city at that time with many german-speaking subjects loyal to the Polish Crown. Therefore it makes it even harder to determine someone's nationality there. Perhaps during that time he would be seen as a Polish-Austrian composer more as an indicator of for whom or which nation he composed or which musical tradition he followed, or perhaps a combination of those. For instance, Antonio Salieri was often seen as a German composer despite being Italian. But he was called that because he stillistically followed the German musical tradition not so much the Italian one. Personally I have no qualms with that, as long as we know that those composers were people too and had their ow history. With all that said, personally I have a hard time deterimining my own nationality. My parents are Polish, I was born in Poland where I lived for 11 years. Then I moved to Sweden where I live now for 8 years. I have a double citizenship. Culturally I can't say I'm either Polish or Swedish as I absorbed a lot form both countries. What would you then say?

Filip Swital Hello and thank you for your comments. Indeed nationality as a concept is very complex and multifaceted. Blood is not everything and the way we spend our life makes the difference. And nationality it’s just not enough because it can be something that relates to cultural heritage as well as something purely political, so to speak. A good friend of mine was born and raised in Mexico from Japanese parents. He’s 100% Japanese and Also pretty much 100% Mexican. Time is also very important here. But in any case I think that regarding composers it’s quite risky to get into the territory of what country what kingdom it was 200 300 years ago, because we should apply that to everybody then. And it’s also just as misleading. When Napoleone was born Corsica have been part of France for one year. Does that make Napoleon French? I doubt it. So for me nationality is more about blood and culture in terms of where we come from and slightly less what we identify with. It is also interesting to read about him in Wikipedia in different languages. The one in Italian says that he was German and that his father was Italian and her mother Latvian, while the English version says that he was Polish-Austrian. Places where we lived and worked in my opinion do not change your nationality at all. And concerning what you said about Salieri, well, I disagree with that. In my studies I had a chance to observe that especially in the 18 century and before German was barely spoken at the court while Italian was the preferred language as well as the language of culture, opera, music, similarly to want French would be for Russia later on. Also concerning his style, I don’t think there is a lot of German elements in his work. On the contrary he was maybe a bridge between the two cultures were at the end of the Century national identities grew stronger culminating with the ideas of the romanticism. Having been the teacher of Beethoven and Liszt among many others just shows how he and his own heritage have been influential. But she has overall nationality can be a very open concept, but I just disagree when certain approaches that create confusion and make some things look like something else.

​@@skellez83 Hello and no problem, it is very interesting to discuss. A note one could make about nationality in history, and in this case as we are talking about composers that lived roughly 300-200 years ago, is that their views of what their nation was was almost entirely different from ours. Before Bismark Germany wasn't united, everyone who spoke German considered himself or herself to be German, even Austrians (that today distance themselves from Germany). I like the fact that you mentioned Napoleon Bonaparte, or initally Napoleone Buonaparte. The name says it all really. Concerning what wikipedia says about Cartellieri... The Polish one states that he was a german-speaking composer of Gdańsk, further mentioning that his father was Italian and mother Latvian. I will soon try to explain why Gdańsk is so important in the context. The French one stated that he was German, no mention of the parents. The Italian one, like you said, states that he was German (probably referring to him being a german-speaking citizen of the Polish Lithuanian Commonwealth) of an Italian father and of a Latvian mother. A quick note on the Commonwealth, tanslated directly from Polish it says, "A Commonwealth of Both Nations". So not only Poland. Therefore in hindsight it would be wrong to say he was Polish if not for the city of Gdańsk which makes everything complicated, as I'm sure you've noticed. Why would a child of an Italian and Latvian speak German at home? I suspect the port city is the answer. Another interesting thing is that the citizens of Gdańsk (German-speaking or not) proudly called themselves that rather than Polish or German. In fact they opposed the Prussian occupation of the city during the second patitioning of the commonwealth as they wanted to stay a part of it. Therefore if a cultural heritage is important, as you state, I would agree with the Polish wikipedia page. I should also mention that I do not think that places where you work change your nationality, but they change who you are seen as. Napoleon could have been Arabian for all we care, but he was a citizen of France and a French emperor. Antonio Salieri was Italian, or rather a Venetian (I know regions are important in Italy) but he was considered as one among German composers. Now, stillistically I do believe that Salieri was a German composer. He was a student of Gassman and (maybe) Gluck and most importantly he recieved his musical education in Vienna. His musical tradition was that of those composers and he composed mainly for the Viennese public which knew what they wanted and expected from their composers. Maria Theresia of Austria even stated in her letter her preference of Italian composers over the German ones, paradoxally among whom Salieri was mentioned. At the time of writing this letter Salieri was already thought of as "our" composer by her and most like all of Vienna. I can try to find the research paper where I found it if you'd like. I too believe that he was a bridge between Italian and German tradition, but if I recall correctly, during his tour of Italy he was noted for some "tendencies" of German composers (in his music). The thing about Salieri as i found out is that he was very flexible in style with some of his works resembling Gluck, especially his French operas. He often adjusted his style to fit the expectation of his audience but also to offer them something new. I'm not an expert. All I know is from reading what other people manage to research and publish. I have some education in music but not enough for an indepth analysis of someone's style, but Salieri has been one of my keen interests for some time and I'm still waiting for more of his compositions to be preformed. As you said, nationality is very complicated and controversial may I add. There are many factors that can govern it and I'm sure there are some people who could determine them much better than I can. But like you, I oppose assigning, or changing someone's nationality for one's own purposes. And I do apologise for writing such a long (excuse my language) tape worm.

More like Krommer, not Mozart.