I enjoyed the video When I slice the return, several players have trouble hitting a 3 shot drop off it. If I see that happening I will hit more slice returns to them.
Great video. I really like the explanation on how the game is evolving and how the top level players are adjusting accordingly. For rec players, where and how deep you return the serve is also important.
Slice returns are great against players who struggle with them. Your example is perfect because it shows you are paying attention to how the other player is handling them. There was a 4.5 player doing this to me in rec the other day. I missed a couple drops into the net, so he kept doing it. I started hitting heavy top spin drives instead and won the game. Unfortunately for him, he never adjusted to my adjustment.
yes adjusting your game to your opponent is a great skill to have. the more skills you have in your arsenal, the better off you are as a well rounded player
John, thanks for this video. I implemented your technique today and saw immediate improvements in my service returns. You have a gift for simplifying and explaining.
I often hit a deep, low slice that doesn't come up very high but have been mixing in topspin drive returns, especially the forehand side. I appreciate your content and have subscribed to your newsletter.
I've been doing this for the last two months and it really works. I have gained so many points by shooting for the back line. This pushes them way back so I am at the kitchen line long before they are. Plus, many players either hit the ball in the air (foul!) or it lands short of the line and they are standing to close to hit the ball.
I definitely hit a hard topspin forehand return of serve, but I still don't really have a good, reliable backhand, deep topspin drive. I am still hitting a slice from my backhand, but it isn't floaty, it is sharp and it skids when it hits. I am working on drilling a backhand drive, but my slice is so reliable it is hard to make myself use an inconsistent drive in games.
I had the same issue, so I worked for about 2 months on forcing myself to hit two handed backhand drive returns whenever possible in rec play, actually did wonders for when you wanna hit that shot vs just running around the ball to your forehand. The Grandmothers in our group didn't stand a chance.! Practice works, who knew? 😅
@@elliottfletcher4830 Oh it definitely does. I was a very highly ranked table tennis player in the 90s. I'm fighting against thousands of hours of muscle memory here, but I'm trying!
Everything you say is certainly true of the floating backspin return, but I often use a Federer-esque knifing backhand slice return effectively. The goal is to hit the ball with pace at its peak (or just before on its rise) and downward while moving forward. Because of the additional pace, the ball maintains a straight line trajectory as it hits the ground and skids low, deep and through the court. This is in contrast to the floater that ultimately loses momentum, drops and bounces higher. I find this particularly effective in returning heavy-topspin serves. They tend to bounce higher and with more pace. Slicing downward uses the ball’s pace for greater straight-line punch through the court. Also, the serve’s topspin gives the return higher-RPM backspin to make it super slimy with a very low bounce. It’s more difficult to convert the heavy backspin to controllable topspin when it skids so low. Because the slimy return skids so low and deep, the player must hit his third upward from just above the court surface, which is not where anyone likes to hit a topspin drive. His upward arc then gives a higher perch for the (fourth) swinging volley. It also gives provides more challenges to hitting the third as a soft drop. The difficulty executing this knifing return is timing and footwork, which needs to be very precise to be consistent. Also, serves that land close to the baseline require the return to travel further, thus requiring more pace to not float and eventually just drop. There are tradeoffs to just about everything, but a slice return still has applicability when you can keep its trajectory flat/downward and skidding through the court. If instead it floats and drops, the backspin is easily used by the server/partner on the third to kill you.
0:58 I wished your comparison used forehand returns as backhands dont do the comparison justice. I would not be surprised if players still used some slices for backhand returns.
I do a mix of top spin or under spin return. The top spin sure means I have to run in faster even without stopping after driving. I think I still favor the under spin when I have to return with left backhand but cannot do a double backhand.
I developed a deep return a few months into play and it changed my game. As we moved outside to play I forgot about my deep return for a couple of weeks as my brain was full of concern w other game elements (and not hitting return out due to wind) and I wasnt dominating as much. Just a few days ago I remembered to return it long... game changer. Especially returned deep with pace. Few people can drop a paced, deep return. Just work on slowing down their 3rd shot drive (or punch their 3rd drive back in a tough spot for their hapless partner at the NVL and end the point there). And then quit playing with people who cant do 3rd shot drops cuz youre game will not progress.
Awesome considerations for the return, Thank you. Interested to know if you see side spin added to these returns by any pros? I find it very effective to top/side spin it to the right side players backhand, creates confusion, difficult to return, and does buy a little extra time to proceed to the kitchen compared to really hammering the topspin drive. I get lots of missed 3rds by my opponents, but I'm only playing against 3.5 to 4.5's in my area.
thanks for good advice simply stated - as usual. Question: looks like you aren’t using the Pro S1 ball - is there reason you aren’t? just because PPA is using the Vulcan?
I have a slice backhand return of serve so switching to a drive may be hard but i play against someone who serves a ball exclusively to an opponent backhand that stays very low. ( below the knee) what do you suggest?
is your backhand a one handed slice? can develop a two handed drive on the backhand side or work on running around your backhand if you know where the opponent will serve it
My understanding of physics and as explained to me by a very experienced PB coach and ex head coach at a Tennis academy owned by a former grand slam player......is that backspin always turns in topspin in the opposite direction as soon as it hits the ground unless the ball skids which is common on indoor timber board surfaces. So the theory that you're giving your opponent free topspin is only true 100% of the time if they hit a topspin volley off a ball hit with backspin. Happy to be corrected?
In Tennis this is true because there is a lot more friction between the ball and the court. In Pickleball a ball with a lot of underspin will still have some underpin left after the bounce. Either way the concept still applies. If I hit a ball with topspin, when it bounces it’s going to get more topspin. My opponents now have to reverse the direction of the ball if they want topspin, which is very difficult in pickleball. If I hit a ball with under spin depending on how much it will either bounce and still have undespin, bounce and have no spin, or bounce and maybe have a little topspin. Either way it would easier to generate topspin in all of those situations vs the other one.
This is great. I need to be doing this and I usually do but I sometimes get caught coming in because I'm literally a running target. Lol. I'll have to adapt and see where and when I can use this.
thank you for the support! split stepping and making sure you are in a balanced position before the opponents hit the ball will also improve your game alot!
@@davidaronson9475 And what about the third shot drop? Now it is called "3rd shot drive". Before, called bangers. People never admit they are wrong. And do you dare calling Sock a banger?
@@26realmc what about the third shot drop? Now it is called "3rd shot drive". Before, called bangers. People never admit they are wrong. And do you dare calling Sock a banger?
I play mostly against 3.5-4.0 level. If they serve to my backhand I return it with a strong low slice, and when they serve to my forehand I focus on a deeper return with a little bit of height. At this level, my slice return is very effective especially when deep. Even a higher level player is going to have a difficult time returning a deep slice return, and even if it gives them some topspin help, I will have time to get up to the kitchen line and handle their drive no problem. The main worry is a short to medium float return with a bit of height where they can step in to it and drive with a topspin dip. I know I look forward to that type of return myself!
