Apartheid South Africa moment for Israel? with Ghada Karmi & Andrew Feinstein | EI Podcast

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Over the past six months, millions of people worldwide have taken to the streets to demonstrate in solidarity with Palestine and to demand that their governments call for a permanent ceasefire in Gaza.
Many governments have responded and even the US abstained - rather than vetoed - a UN Security Council Resolution in March calling for a temporary ceasefire during the Muslim holy month of Ramadan.
Spain, Ireland, Slovenia and Malta have also committed to recognizing a Palestinian state, joining eight other EU member states, including Poland and Sweden who have already done so, even though the EU as a whole has yet to take this step.
Nevertheless, Israel has continued its genocide in Gaza, seemingly unconcerned. And crucially, Israel’s most important allies, the US and the UK, have remained largely unmoved and continue to support Israel diplomatically and militarily, with little to no regard for popular feeling.
This prompts the question of whether we have reached the limits of what Palestine activism can achieve or whether the current popular momentum can turn into an Apartheid South Africa moment, a moment of global solidarity that led inexorably to the collapse of South Africa’s racist regime.
To discuss this, and more about the parallels and differences between Palestine activism and the anti-Apartheid movement, The Electronic Intifada talked to two veteran activists.
Ghada Karmi has authored several books on Palestine, including her latest, One State: The Only Democratic Future for Palestine-Israel, as well as a memoir, In Search of Fatima that detailed her family’s flight from Jerusalem during the 1947-49 Nakba.
Andrew Feinstein was a long-time anti-apartheid activist who became a parliamentarian for Nelson Mandela’s African National Congress party after the country’s first free elections in 1994.
The son of a holocaust survivor, an experience that informed both his and his mother’s opinions on apartheid and Palestine, he is the author of a book about the ANC, After the Party, as well as an investigation into the global arms trade, The Shadow World.
“The imperative is to stop the genocide and to stop the ethnic cleansing,” Karmi said
And while resolution might seem far away, ultimately, she said, “the only realistic, practical, just and humane endpoint to this is the creation of a proper democratic state, in which both these peoples become equal citizens.”
Feinstein pointed out that situations can change faster than expected.
"In 1986, when I had to leave South Africa, if someone had told me apartheid would be over four years later, I would have used my training as a clinical psychologist and offered them a straitjacket."
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16 апр 2024

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Комментарии : 202

@meetings3071 2 месяца назад

Nice to see Andrew! *_South Africa 🇿🇦 (my country) will always stand with Palestine! Now and forever!_* 🇵🇸 ❤️ 🇿🇦 🤝 🇵🇸 💚

@unathimichaelmxaku8105 2 месяца назад

Forever ✊

@MboroBhoro 2 месяца назад

Umhlaba gowabo

@ravenblack7052 2 месяца назад

Don't we love our Andrew! He will always be "our Andrew" to South Africans. We're lucky to have produced so many incredible humane beings.

@ashman8613 2 месяца назад

yebo

@meetings3071 2 месяца назад

@@ravenblack7052 For sure. 🫡

@error-tx8kx 2 месяца назад

FROM THE RIVER TO THE SEA PALESTINE WILL BE FREE! 🇵🇸

@alutacontinua725 2 месяца назад

This is the moment. There is no going back to the status quo. From a child of Apartheid South Africa. 🇿🇦🇿🇦🇿🇦

@kennethhymes9734 2 месяца назад

Growing up in Philadelphia, turning into an active leftie, I experienced starting in 1976 the intense and vicious pushback and threats from committed zionists, but also the weird sentimentalization of land theft that those zionists peddled to their "liberal" peers. I saw through it, and often felt lonely with my critique, my anger, bullied away from the center of my ethics at times. I regret not being more forceful, more material, in my activism, and I see the links fully now between my own oppression here and that of the Palestinian people. Victory and full return for Palestine.

@user-yo2nq7to3h 2 месяца назад

I can relate. Liberal/left Philly in the 80s-90s had that zionist exceptionalism growing from its eyeballs (except maybe in the black activist community; long live that community; free Mumia). It confused me for years and went a long way toward neutering resistance to Gulf War 1.

@Uncanny_Mountain 2 месяца назад

We are here now, what's essential is to consolidate the gains and seize the initiative now before they have time to regroup and double down, we won't get this opportunity again Govt by People's Referenda: Peaceful Occupation of our Capitals until it's installed, or run Mascot Candidates Single Issue Referendums with thresholds and a social contract means Communities can vote their own laws. A Public Authority can audit police and prosecute bad cops in our own courts. Nationalise resources and give Indigenous peoples the right of Sovereignty over them as Guardians. This can be achieved through a General Strike or Velvet Revolution, much like the Occupy movement, peacefully occupying State Buildings until a People's Mandate can be implemented. With the appropriate checks and balances, you could have a national digital forum where qualified professionals can debate the issues in a public setting without all the disinformation and bad faith antics, hatespeech etc. Any vote would need to pass the 70% threshold, with a veto or _rewrite_ vote needing 30%. The issues would be debated, the public educated, and then a vote taken. Votes that fail will have to wait a year before trying again. Any new proposal (Citizen Initiated Referendum) would have to reach a threshold of support before it made it onto the register. This would be subject to a Social Contract (New Constitution) that forbids human rights abuses and discrimination. That can be written in the same manner based on the core principles we all share. Councils and Boards could operate in the same fashion at Scale. It works in a way that obligates people to better educate themselves ( that is to use logic and evidence in their reasoning ) for a better understanding of the issues, and then take collective responsibility for the outcomes. As opposed to the divisive US v them scapegoating and bi-partisan finger pointing the current Capitalist Pyramid Scheme runs on. We need Government by People's Referenda, either through Mascot Candidates or Peaceful Occupation of the Capitals until one is established. Make it an annual event on Oct 14

@PalOStein 2 месяца назад

@@Uncanny_Mountain Utopian garbage. Listen to Chairman Mao. Defy Ronald Reagan.

@massford2767 2 месяца назад

Sane people, great hearts, beautiful souls.

@bluestar6879 5 дней назад

Yes - but those people are NOT represented in this meeting. The Israeli victims are excluded from this pro-Amas forum.

@zizuette 2 месяца назад

I have been on Twitter every day since Oct 7th standing up for Palestine. We are an army. We’ve got this.🍉🇵🇸

@senjo5489 2 месяца назад

the situation of the Pālestiníans is much worse than South Afrícan apārtheíd, we are closer to the situation of the Jęws under Nāzísm

@wavkariuki7653 2 месяца назад

Sadly I feel Palestinians are treated as the Jews were by the Nazi. How weird that the Zionist have now become the Nazi in this situation.

@kindGSL 2 месяца назад

@@wavkariuki7653 It looks to me like Hitler and Netanyahu share a whole lot of cultural background and religious values, but I never was interested in studying Hitler. He is dead and buried. Netanyahu has tremendous power in the US, something Hitler never had.

@olgadeweger3805 2 месяца назад

@@kindGSL I am not so sure about that, I think it is possible Germany was their proxy, and Hitler played a role like Zelenski. The education of the Hitler-jugend, Zionism, and the Ukrainians are about the same. The Rothchilds and their group of Billionaires wanted a Zionist state and wanted the Jews to move there, the second world war created the situation that the only place Jews could flee to was Palestine. And then think of the political interest of the US in the area. I mean a lot of accidents, accidentally Jews had to flee, and accidentally there was group busy creating a place for them to go to, started before the Jews got trouble in Europe. Accidentally similar education-systems, accidentally military buildings in the US in the shape off SS and a Swastika. I can not say I am sure, I am just saying, do we know?

@Uncanny_Mountain 2 месяца назад

@@kindGSL biological Son No evidence he died in Germany, but Father Crespi had 2000 senior Nazis at his funeral in Argentina Plenty of time to Father both Trump and Yahu, with help from L Ron Hubbard and Alister Crowley

@Ntuthu-ZA 2 месяца назад

@@kindGSL I was also thinking that this feels worse.

@ironelegance 2 месяца назад

Great conversation Mrs. Karmi and Mr. Feinstein. Thank you for sharing your experiences, thoughts and time.

@scenFor109 2 месяца назад

FYI: colonial titles, Mister, Miss etc., are sovereign legal handles to ownership of people as property. Publish, ARABS ARE NOT CHATTEL, on so-called sovereign monopoly money.

@PalOStein 2 месяца назад

@@scenFor109 Your comment is not helpful.

@scenFor109 2 месяца назад

@@PalOStein then published one for your own liberty. Publish, MONOPOLY = SLAVERY on so-called sovereign monopoly money. Auction your, 'newspaper' if you can't spend it at the sovereign's tax collection retail agents. Why is the Israeli Shekel legal tender in Gaza, the West Bank and Israel? Remember that a statement of sovereignty is not secular.

@sandrajensen497 2 месяца назад

Absolutely brilliant in-depth discussion! Thank you, Andrew Feinstein, Ghada Kharmi, and ei.

@wavkariuki7653 2 месяца назад

I have been looking for more information about apartheid South Africa. I have trying to understand what lessons can be learnt. So far I feel Israel has also studied this and fortified themselves. I still feel there are lesson here. Thanks South Africa for you job in the ICJ, thanks EI for this show

@flippydaflip5310 2 месяца назад

It's not so much that Israel has fortified itself - it's just the massive logistical and economic support Israel gets from the west.

@Uncanny_Mountain 2 месяца назад

Govt by People's Referenda: Peaceful Occupation of our Capitals until it's installed, or run Mascot Candidates Single Issue Referendums with thresholds and a social contract means Communities can vote their own laws. A Public Authority can audit police and prosecute bad cops in our own courts. Nationalise resources and give Indigenous peoples the right of Sovereignty over them as Guardians. This can be achieved through a General Strike or Velvet Revolution, much like the Occupy movement, peacefully occupying State Buildings until a People's Mandate can be implemented. With the appropriate checks and balances, you could have a national digital forum where qualified professionals can debate the issues in a public setting without all the disinformation and bad faith antics, hatespeech etc. Any vote would need to pass the 70% threshold, with a veto or _rewrite_ vote needing 30%. The issues would be debated, the public educated, and then a vote taken. Votes that fail will have to wait a year before trying again. Any new proposal (Citizen Initiated Referendum) would have to reach a threshold of support before it made it onto the register. This would be subject to a Social Contract (New Constitution) that forbids human rights abuses and discrimination. That can be written in the same manner based on the core principles we all share. Councils and Boards could operate in the same fashion at Scale. It works in a way that obligates people to better educate themselves ( that is to use logic and evidence in their reasoning ) for a better understanding of the issues, and then take collective responsibility for the outcomes. As opposed to the divisive US v them scapegoating and bi-partisan finger pointing the current Capitalist Pyramid Scheme runs on. We need Government by People's Referenda, either through Mascot Candidates or Peaceful Occupation of the Capitals until one is established. Make it an annual event on Oct 14

@TheHackityHack 2 месяца назад

Although the apartheid is long over in SA, the whites still live a far better life than the native population after choosing to live with them. Muslims in India are still persecuted after independence of Pakistan for the muslims. If Palestinians allow the monstrous israeli society to live with them, we will see a perpetual problem with no end of economic persecution at the very least.

@Ntuthu-ZA 2 месяца назад

Spot on about them having studied and now bent on finishing what the others (their friends in SA)could not.

@Vort_tm 2 месяца назад

Such a solemn and heart wrenching discussion of a desperate situation… and 5 minutes in I notice that they’re in their socks. I don’t know why but noticing that just makes them feels so sincere and honest. Sort of odd since it’s so trivial, but that’s how it makes me feel.

@freemanz4051 2 месяца назад

Hidden History of the fight against Apartheid: Much of the concert gear from Woodstock '69, moved to Soweto, where David Marks operated "Third Ear Sound", producing illegal , 'mixed' (race) shows under the DeClerk regime. My first activism was at Colorado College, where my classmate, Dick Cheney's daughter, poo-poo'd our efforts. Woodstock Engineer Hanley met Tutu decades later, as the Cleric spoke on Israel and Apartheid in Boston's Old South Church. There was also a tv press conference. Tutu spoke briefly with me, and we discussed this. The Archbishop danced outside the Boston Public Library, and finally the two men met.

@ravenblack7052 2 месяца назад

Aww you made my heart smile with the image you evoked of our beloved Arch doing his dance! I can actually hear him laugh. We miss him everyday. I can imagine the position both our Arch and Tata Madiba (Nelson Mandela) would have taken when Oct 7th happened. Tata would have been fiery. Arch would condemn all those leaders of the West who lined up to green light what has been unfolding in Gaza over the past 6 months. They would not have pulled a single punch. I dare say, Arch would head to Gaza to break the siege and ensure that the Israelis evil plan would have not come to fruition. They would both have loved Francesca Albanese. The woman is an angel.

@ronaldwharton939 2 месяца назад

What Mr. Feinstein said about not being able to find anyone in South Africa who voted for the apartheid government is a sad fact about human nature. Most people are sheep who don't want to think for themselves.

@MendeMaria-ej8bf 2 месяца назад

If people are not heard anymore, democracies are seriously endangered.

@Anonymus-qp2mb 2 месяца назад

There is NOOOO TRUE DEMOCRACY ANYWHERE & DETERIORATING FIRTHER & FURTHER EVERYDAY. ESPECIALLY WITH TECHNOLOGY BEING USED ILLEGALLY & TO GET TORAL CONTROL OF PEOPLE....

@Uncanny_Mountain 2 месяца назад

Lol *_"All Continents will become united in a world alliance at whose disposal will be an international police force."_* *_"All armies will be abolished and there will be no war."_* _*"In Jerusalem a truly United Nations will build a shrine to the Prophets to serve the Federation of Continents. This will be the seat of the Supreme Court of Mankind.""_ israel's Bolshevik PM Ben Gurion on the New World Order: LOOK magazine Jan 16 1962. It's is a Roman Catholic project using Roman Catholic converts under Charlemagne founder of the Holy Roman Empire. It's a blood libel, all our media and politicians are Jesuits _"Today I declare the Crusades won"_ British General Edmunds Allenby upon capturing Jerusalem using the ANZACs in 1917 _"We must put an end to anything which brings about any Islamic unity between the sons of the Arabs. As we have already succeeded in finishing off the Caliphate, so we must ensure that there will never rise again unity for the Arabs, whether it be intellectual or cultural unity.“_ George Curzon, 1st Marquess Curzon of Kedleston, British Foreign Minister 1920. _"israel has no natural enemies of it's own; so we must adopt a strategy of provocation and revenge"_ General Moshe Dayan: israeli Minister of Defence _"Claim everything, deny everything, explain nothing"_ Prescott Bush _"Deny Deflect Disinform"_ Roger Stone _"If you're not with us you're with the Terrorists"_ George Bush Jr 2001 _"I propose an Aryan/Semitic alliance in order to create a superior caucasian race"_ Benjamin Disraeli, UK PM 1890. _"But they want nothing but Palestine, because Palestine represents the geostrategic center for World Control"_ Dr Nahum Goldmann. The whole thing is a Roman Catholic agenda, a Trojan Crusade

@MendeMaria-ej8bf 2 месяца назад

@@Uncanny_Mountain Thank you for sharing this information. It's alarming, so we need to be alert. The historian Yuval Noah Harari is right when he states that it's all about stories. I'd like to add: narratives, framing, ideologies, psychology, philosophy, religion. All what comes out of the human mind. For the good or the bad.

@Uncanny_Mountain 2 месяца назад

@@MendeMaria-ej8bf nature abhors a vacuum, so if there is no alternative narrative to transpose or rebut something, it automatically wins by default, 911 being the perfect example, it is the presuppositions of accuracy, of knowing what they're talking about that creates legitimacy in the eyes of a disinterested public, but as science shows we dont really know anything Another aspect is the literal interpretation of the Bible, without considering it's potential alternatives, like say, an Astrological Allegory for a Lunar Calendar Therefore by establishing a literal narrative they exclude any alternative interpretations, and can therefore write their own script Which they did

@BettBeat_Media 2 месяца назад

One of the best conversations I have seen these days.

@MendeMaria-ej8bf 2 месяца назад

Yes. From the river to the sea: one democratic secular state with equal rights for all citizens.

@Ntuthu-ZA 2 месяца назад

Not going to work with this lot unfortunately. They are way too invested in annihilation of the indigenous people.

@victormeidan1062 Месяц назад

Yes, it is obvious that Jordan is Palestine waiting to be liberated.

@bluestar6879 5 дней назад

Yes - it already exists in Israel.

@mmb811 2 месяца назад

4:09 She is 100% correct, it is CRITICAL for activism to continue world wide against Israel no matter what, because in South Africa during the ANC struggle years against the South Africa apartheid regime, it was that tenacity to continue the struggle no matter what and the expansion of the struggle to world wide activism and importantly turning world wide opinion against South Africa apartheid regime, and the pressure that caused on the ruling apartheid regime that finally in 1988 -1994 tilted the balance to the ANC'S side, and the struggle finally came to an end in 1994 when the ANC won the first true free and fair democratic election in South Africa, which ended the apartheid regimes oppression of the majority of it's people! Continuing the world wide activism & pressure on Israel is the only way to a free Palestinian state and stabilization of the whole region. The world has already turned against Israel, so based on South African history, freedom can be just around the corner for Palestine too!

@kindGSL 2 месяца назад

Boycott! Divestment! Sanctions!

@Dr_MKUltra 2 месяца назад

Excellent discussion. No two state solution only one state of Palestine that everyone is free to live in freely.

@victormeidan1062 Месяц назад

It is called Israel.

@Marxist2 2 месяца назад

Great impressive guests & human beings discussing very a pertinent subject. I thank you EI for this Podcast.

@Parialated 2 месяца назад

Great socks (edit: and a very great insightful, and I hope empathy-inducing conversation)

@Kwame-yw9kz 2 месяца назад

Once you become aware of the Palestinians who are in apartheid, it becomes permanently ingrained in your memory and consciousness, making it impossible to forget or ignore.

@ingridhildebrandt8053 2 месяца назад

Thank you for this sight, that the palestinians are trying to withststand against nearly the komplete western political class.

@Vort_tm 2 месяца назад

Ms Karmi's assessment that this can only end with 1 unified secular Palestine, containing both the native Palestinians and their diaspora, as well as the settlers is the only natural endpoint of this conflict. To Mr Feinstein's point about how quickly things can change... I genuinely believe we are in that phase right now. Obviously nobody can know the future, but it feels like things are changing in the first rumblings of an avalanche. I think that it will be under 20 years before we look back and realize that the exact same thing happened as with South Africa, how we'll say "nobody could have predicted that only a few years later...".

@Ntuthu-ZA 2 месяца назад

Unfortunately, unlike in South Africa,it is highly unlikely that the occupiers will ever be able to bring themselves to live side by side with people who do not look like them, without them being in full control. It is hard enough in South Africa for some to let go of their desire to be superior beings, but even those have never been as radical as the Izilis. Prdinary South Africans hid behind the government but never participated directly in the violence and the displacing of indigenous people.

@carolberry2239 2 месяца назад

What saved S.A. was the principal of love. Tutu was a big influence never compromised what he said.

@cheri238 2 месяца назад

This discussion is like being home in one's heart of understanding. With deep appreciation for allowing me to be here to hear your voices of reflection and what one may do to acquire more knowledge for justice for Palestine. Ouote: Everyman has to seek his own way to make himself more noble and to realize his own true worth. Albert Schweitzer ❤❤❤

@ianweniger6620 2 месяца назад

Thanks for giving Ghada the opportunity to feed Andrew the question that comrades have been asking for decades. And thank you for allowing Andrew to express the answer that has NOT BEEN HEARD BEFORE: the 20th-century anti-apartheid movement BDS succeeded because they focussed on a global boycott of a few businesses run by or complicity with SA.

@Kayotesden 2 месяца назад

Im not clued in on Sauth African history apart from apartheid & freedom there-from, however, I would love EI to do an objective commentary on South Africa pre & post apartheid.

@awrupi.6272 2 месяца назад

#tldr Brilliant discussion Mrs. Karmi and Mr. Feinstein. The South African experience- the nature of apartheid, the global north’s disposition, the capital inequality and at the same time labour force dynamic in favour of native South Africans, the coming of together of the coalition, and a creating of a charismatic myth around Mandela - as much as is different, there seems to be a pathway that the Palestinian movements can use the structures to recreate their own transformative or. Based on their realities, and internally and externally could coalesce around a leader in Marwan Barghouti, who we hear is charismatic and acceptable to most Palestinian movements and people, though he is in prison, and set the charter of liberation internally for a Palestine state that they wish to create, that which will be be for equal citizenship of Muslims, Christians, Jews, and any others under a common constitution; for the ongoing struggle and immediate goal for the end of genocide, end of land grabbing, end of prisoners, end of settlements, breaking down of the apartheid laws and walls and streets, and the external goal of Global BDS movement that should be presented to all the peoples of all nations, friendly and/or unfriendly, through chosen delegates from all the international Palestinian movements and the allies supporting the Palestinian cause in every country so that they can coalesce for BDS and petitioning with teach-ins etc., and also using the new young Palestinians who could be leaders, like the journalists and academics that are out there already speaking but now they speak in unison,based on the charter of freedom, as the coalition of Palestinian movements’ representative in the name of Barghouti. I have worked three decades in communications and messages can be developed, decks prepared with talking points tailored for different audiences, with different objectives, activities outposts, outcomes to bear on the final impact that is Palestine State, an equal state for all Palestinian Muslims, Christians, and Jews. and so on. Thank you once again for the a very hopeful actionable discussion by the three panelists! Free Palestine!

@Cameo19 2 месяца назад

Excellent guests, great in-depth conversation. Thank you all.

@Nerdchic92 2 месяца назад

Andrew is so brilliant and so clear. But he seems to lack a radical imagination. Even Ghada's ideas seemed to give him pause because he couldn't conceptualize them. Even the discussion of the armed or more radical resistance that helped push the end of Apartheid was basically left out of this conversation. Mandela supported armed resistance in SA and Palestine. But this really was a very great listen. Thanks for doing this and bringing these wonderful people together.

@theblueclerk9868 2 месяца назад

Agreed on all points-good conversation. It also could have been made better by having an indigenous/Black South African (one who would speak from a radical liberatory standpoint from the people who were actually violently oppressed) present.

@sdvanon1285 2 месяца назад

The armed resistance in South Africa never reached the level of the Palestinian resistance - it was mostly bombs against state infrastructure (only a few targetted places where there may or would be civilians). South African liberation was due to a variety of factors: * Leadership * Broad Church: trade unions, churches, academics, imprisoned and exiled activists, theatre and music folk, organizations, even some notable business people and a lonely voice in Parliament. * Ultimately, the South African can economy depended on the black majority. * International pressure, in terms of boycotts and sanctions.

@MendeMaria-ej8bf 2 месяца назад

If only Israelis all understood what 'Never again' means.

@axShinsei 2 месяца назад

Insightful and informative conversation. We move forward in solidarity, in continuing BDS actions, in raising voice and in giving space for Palestinians to thrive in a free Palestine.

@Justicesforall 2 месяца назад

Great discussion thank you!

@greenmc8 2 месяца назад

Biden must go.

@roccoboy32 2 месяца назад

The replacement whoever it is will be just as bad or worse. The whole system in DC stinks to the core and no amount of voting is going to change that. FJB

@paulaheady8990 2 месяца назад

Congress must go

@Raks78 2 месяца назад

AIPAC must go, no change without this foreign agent leaving 🇺🇸

@Uncanny_Mountain 2 месяца назад

@victormeidan1062 Месяц назад

Yes. Trump will replace him.

@raj66kas 2 месяца назад

I'm South African and was surprised and proud when South Africa took Israel to the ICJ. I was disappointed that fellow neighboring Islamic states are not supporting Palestine. I can't believe countries like Saudi Arabia, Jordan, Turkey, Egypt and even India are siding with the west. The key to winning this war is to get all Arab and Southern Countries to side with Palestine. All countries should be supporting and/or not support the west. If it were not for the support of the neighboring states of South Africa, the freedom would have been a long battle. Many activists were able to escape or be supported by neighboring countries.

@carolberry2239 2 месяца назад

Agree with Andrew.

@peschi79 2 месяца назад

Wonderful conversation, thanks so much for sharing. 🍉

@harveytadman 2 месяца назад

Lack of respect and too great an ego. The human condition.

@ironelegance 2 месяца назад

Wouldn't be dropping bombs if our relationships were based on mutual respect.

@karincarl4535 2 месяца назад

Nice discussion. I do want to say though, that No Other Peoples of Apartied in our past,(except Jews) ever went on to an Apartied, especially right away. One needs to ask some more Questions about Why.

@annohalloran6020 2 месяца назад

Many crypto Jews came to southwest America and perpetrated atrocities upon the Tewa and Pueblo and Dine nations. Come to Santa Fe and see.

@roshanparbhoo7233 2 месяца назад

Thank you Andrew So much ..thank you

@caylia9989 2 месяца назад

Great conversation ❤❤

@stevemitchell1454 2 месяца назад

The Labour Party has always been a supporter of Israel. I know from experience members did not recognise Israel as the Far Right institution it has become. They were regarded as part of the socialist movement. Labour was in government when I was young. I joined the Party at the age of 16 as a Young Socialist. I left when Starmer began his lying. Had the members realised reality there would have been a revolt. Members I worked with were overwhelmingly on the Left. We believed in democratic socialism and still do. Nye Bevan was a staunch supporter of Israel. I refuse to believe he would have continued support when he realised the change that was taking place. Alas he didn't live long enough for us to know . Bevan would not have countenanced the terrible criminal actions of Israel . I wish members had understood the changes taking place. Corbyn gave us hope. God knows what the future brings.

@carolberry2239 2 месяца назад

Why did the Jews of Israel not feel for the Palestinians being persecuted that the south Africans felt...what made them the perpetrators? This is what we don't ask.

@rozalialuks6583 2 месяца назад

A high level of discussion. Not far from most. But bringing good intellectual thought to the table. Thank you ALL! #LONGLIVERESISTANCE

@janineevans8449 2 месяца назад

In the words of Nelson Mandela 'When the water starts boiling it is foolish to turn off the heat.'

@-jz5mm 2 месяца назад

One state, called Palestine. 🇵🇸

@mk4922 2 месяца назад

The northern Ireland solution is the only possible solution. Two communities living side by side in some semblamce of harmony. Where have the IRA gone now that the conflict has subsided? Gone back into their families and their own lives. Violence begets violence😢

@bronzenrule Месяц назад

Thank you, Ghada and Andrew. Your wisdom and insights provide invaluable perspective at this juncture and going forward in this journey for justice.

@wahidh.sharaf5311 2 месяца назад

What a heartwarming conversation!!

@melchoraslez1689 2 месяца назад

Great conversation thanks a lot 🙏

@zx7rzx7r25 2 месяца назад

👍👍👍

@carolberry2239 2 месяца назад

Ghada is correct one state is what they need and so they must take that road no compromise. Many black south Africans compromised but it didn't work.

@The_Mighty_Red Месяц назад

Thank you for posting about this

@user-xz9zz8rf6u 2 месяца назад

Thank you EI and all 3 guests. Deep respect to all ❤🙏 very insightful. I agree with the beautiful closing, and Ghada Karmi's words from the Quran resonates words from mine... divine orchestra can eventuate its own dance, which we often have no way if predicting, as long as we continue to trust and play our role. May Free Palestine 🇵🇸 🇵🇸🙏 be a reality in this lifetime for all of us..

@bartvisscher2647 2 месяца назад

great conversation

@williamwynne1112 2 месяца назад

International Jewry as western center of powers supporting Israel was now raised as an issue by Ghada Karmi

@dottester3039 2 месяца назад

An excellent and enduring conversation. Initiating the mind to the factors and the chronology of peoples in so called models of so called democracy and its failures. 2024 is up against Peace on every level, political, ideology, historical and an agreement incorporating the populace.

@hayatraja7360 2 месяца назад

🇵🇸 Is Rising

@sophiefuller695 2 месяца назад

Thank you!!

@rozalialuks6583 2 месяца назад

Today we mostly "talk" about racism/islamophobia/antisemitism/cultural similarities x differences/narratives... But rarely about Class Struggle. In Direct Action in the streets, the notion of class struggle is clearly on display. Direct Action people never separate Zionism from Imperialism. This is essential. There is no possible Liberation for anyone outside the discussion of class struggle: The haves and the have-nots. And ROBBERY, which is at the heart of the problems we face. #LONGLIVERESISTANCE

@jonathanmitchellmittencoll1191 2 месяца назад

Beautiful 🙏🏼 thankyou

@southpaw786 2 месяца назад

Thank ei. Dr Karmi’s opening statement vis-a-vis the economic structure of the South African apartheid regime and how it pertains to the extant ideological links of Israel and Western/European society is vital. This link however is not so straightforward. Western societies have undergone fundamental socioeconomic changes in the past half century, especially in the last 20 years or so, such that western economies are highly dependent on the proceeds of war and the military industrial complex. This can be looked from the famously espoused, Thatcherite concept of the ‘Stakeholder Society.’ Western middle class, the effective segment of society, has iteratively been made a Stakeholder in the global war machine, such as that its life-lines are almost directly ‘jacked-in’ to this monstrous construct. In short, war is good for the economy and the economy is good for ‘everyone.’ This is the quintessential difference between South African apartheid and the crueler Israeli version, where Israel’s true role is not just to act as junkyard dog on behalf western war machine in the Middle East, but also a major instrument of generating and manufacturing the reasons for wars and military conflagrations that create weapons sales and markets, not mention the ‘security’ apparatus that goes with it. Also Israel’s malign and malignant influence in the region severely hampers development, this keeps literary hundreds of millions of peoples in a permanent state of being consumers for western markets, another vast source of revenue for western industrial societies and others that are also feeding off this; something that perhaps in part explains Japan’s recent uncharacteristic active support and involvement. All this added together is mana from heaven for right wing and the rising far-right forces within western societies who have no love for Jews or even Israel, but very much know on which side their bread is buttered, so that for a western racist there’s nothing NOT to like about war: you make money while people of colour; black and brown, Muslims/Jews are killed and their societies are being eviscerated!

@annchendoherty9558 2 месяца назад

Your comments sum up the much more complex and challenging situation that Palestinians face in their struggle against the apartheid colonial military occupation of Israel and the South Africans against the apartheid regime.

@rehanaflowerinjannah4499 2 месяца назад

#FreePalestine. Thank you E.Intifada for this episode on #intellectual intifada.

@gmw3083 2 месяца назад

They criticized Orban for being friendly with Israel. I doubt that's the case anymore with his alignment with Putin. Orban is a nationalist who wants to preserve his nationality. Hungary didn't steal its territory. What's wrong with nationalism in that case? It goes against the glow ballistic EU agenda. Which is a tool of the oligarchy.

@kennethhymes9734 2 месяца назад

The corollary to Karmi's point about the unique entanglement of Israel with other powers: no help to the Palestinians, as she rightly notes, and at the same time it is putting a spotlight on, and calking into question, virtually all of the significant political and economic arrangements in the west, and its military colonial arrangements with African states and others. Everything is fraying rather quickly in a way I have not witnessed in my decades here.

@shahidmehmood7944 2 месяца назад

With love from Pakistan,❤️🇵🇰to ❤️🇿🇦❤️🇵🇸❤️☪️☪️☪️☪️☪️☪️

@JoHarris-io7ps 2 месяца назад

10:51 Thank you so much Asa and ei team. That was informative and also hopeful. May the fight continue.

@Jean-rg4sp 2 месяца назад

*My comments criticizing the Israelis are routinely removed by RU-vid,*

@richardhastings5860 2 месяца назад

What a thoughtful discussion on the topic. What is the endpoint? Nazism,Zionism & Fascism is an anathema to humanity.

@SleepyGenocideJoe 2 месяца назад

The banks are still facilitating the funding of Israel via bond sales... South Africa apartheid government collapsed due to lack of affordable bank funding

@tobiashardy1620 2 месяца назад

One state- equal rights- follow international laws

@Never_again_against_anyone 2 месяца назад

Learning and understanding evermore about all this injustice and noting the reactions of the establishment to people waking up, not only often leaves my blood boiling, but leaves me convinced, that even though antijudaistic Zionism, racism and Islamophobia are as much a factor today as they have always been, that certain people do not care that much more about uncomfortable white people and will sell our rights just as readily. I am not whining or wanting to take away attention from people who need it more, I just believe that for real change certain illusions need to be overcome. And I do not think it is sufficient if people understand that they have to show politicians what they do (not) want, many normal people cannot afford to loose much. I admire those who have the courage to risk lifelong poverty as part of the backlash, but there will not be enough of them. There need be perspectives for others who are willing to give up something, but not everything, too. The world is not utopia, awareness and conscience will not make everyone fearless.

@berniediedricks5681 2 месяца назад

❤UN INTERNATIONAL HUMAN RIGHTS LAWS 4 ALL ❤️

@markr.jolliff2554 2 месяца назад

The Unity Conference is a great idea.

@berniediedricks5681 2 месяца назад

FREE FREE FREE PALESTINE 🇵🇸

@ceterumcenseo12 2 месяца назад

They care greatly about Palestine but very little about Palestinians.

@AntonioCartyArt 2 месяца назад

💯♥️

@anthonybaiocchi3028 2 месяца назад

As serious as this conversation is, I can't help laughing at the socks. Lekker ntsangu!🇿🇦🇵🇸❤️ BDS BDS BDS BDS BDS BDS BDS BDS BDS BDS BDS BDS BDS BDS BDS BDS BDS BDS

@mgsilverhead9636 2 месяца назад

Im only in at 50 minutes... three main ideas pop up for me. One is to immediately correct "antisemite" with "anti-zionist imperialism". The second is that many of the European Jewish survivors who became Zionists were UPPERCLASS ppl and it's the economic power elite who are closing ranks. We must keep talking about class and economics. The third is that we must talk about the oil and why the US needs Israel in the Middle East. Loving you and loving this video. Today especially -- may ALL drink from the cup of Freedom and Liberation!!!

@Robert-tj3qq 2 месяца назад

Who offered SA Nuclear weapons in 1973 ?

@theresabarzee1463 2 месяца назад

Internalized shame over being shamed, decimated, subjected to horrors & trauma causes this need to compartmentalize, distance, blame someone(s) else, as trauma is so hard to process. It damages the moral core to the point where it is like those who were shunned after the atomic bomb poisoned their very bodies. Shamed in society, and dehumanized. As if it was the fault of those hurt most. It is twisted, but also the norm for fragile humans who, of course "can't just move on" or get over it! Was there any societal help on this then?! Not, that I know of, except w/in the groups who spoke only, if ever, together, quietly & in yiddish perhaps? This is a pattern. We are damaged beyond rejoining those who are not traumatized. PTSD label is relatively new. Shell-shocked doesn't cover it. No?!

@primarypadma1591 2 месяца назад

44:55 worded that really well

@michellemaxine100 2 месяца назад

Marwan Barghouti

@flowermaze___ 2 месяца назад

Chats like this give me hope! ❤

@olgadeweger3805 2 месяца назад

Would South Africa be prepared to be a peace-army in Israel? Till Israel has a non racist army and police-force existing of Israeli and Palestinians? I would not trust the UN and the US with that, the US should not be able to have any influence since they have their own political agenda that does not align with peace in the area. I also think that it would be good to give Israel a new name. A name for both Palestinians and Israeli. I also think that there has to be a good look at the school-system. As long as kids are learning the Talmud, there will be a problem.

@MarioFavela-qx1ei 2 месяца назад

Did , the fact that the Cuban and the African fighters started to beat back the Great white army affect South Africa to accept a change ?

@jodiecatherine1433 2 месяца назад

It's a nice idea and all - the current Palestinian residents, plus the returning diaspora, plus the current Israeli residents, but i can't fathom how they are going to fit everybody in. Gaza is bombed to bits - it's likely going to be uninhabitable for many years while the land recovers and the buildings are rebuilt. So many Palestinians have been expelled from their land in the West Bank and replaced by Israeli settlers, there is not really room there either for even the current Palestinian population, never mind the refugees in nearby countries and the diaspora from around the world. They didn't really discuss how this situation would be managed - there's nowhere they can really go while the land regeneration and urban rebuilding takes place. I can't see an easy path from where they are now to the 'desired' end-point that Ghada Karmi describes so clearly. What am i missing?

@carolberry2239 2 месяца назад

However there is real evil afoot...more than ever before.

@r.k5088 2 месяца назад

Non of us do.. if We don’t make an effort to get the bigger picture and small details!

@carolberry2239 2 месяца назад

You need every method you can find. The fences would have gone long ago in S.A.

@yepyep6916 Месяц назад

What about America apartheid post slavery as a case study…many similarities with South Africa. Worldwide citizens and governments didn’t intervene. Western societies have a spotty civil rights history but never admit it.

@r.k5088 2 месяца назад

It’s the first time I feel I waisted my time😢

@maryannechilds6459 2 месяца назад

B d s. It works 😊

@rozalialuks6583 2 месяца назад

About our Future: "The Inability to See What Comes Next". G. Karmi Such a simple and profound point to ponder. [Those of us who work closely with the working class can see how devastating this "lack of planning conditions" can be] #judiascomPALESTINAS

@okaytoletgo 2 месяца назад

For the MP: you will feel a great kinship with Ghassan Hage. Thank you all for this.

@quetzalzuniga8410 2 месяца назад

The great problem of the Palestinians is the betrayal of the Arab peoples themselves, and the betrayal of the Palestinian Authority...hopefully in this fight we will see reunification through resistance