Thank you for taking the time to do this video. Enjoyed all aspects of it, including the chuck jaw turning. 17-4-PH is tough material and hard on inserts. Felt like I was back at work again. Used to run CNC turning machines doing all types of API threads., Really miss the challenging work. Manage your health carefully and you may be able to continue working longer than the average Machinist. When you cant go to work anymore due to poor health it messes with your mind in a critical way that is harder to control than the tolerance of an API thread. Thank you again.
Appreciate so much the detailed explanation of the challenges of just working with the machine, aside from the details of the part being made. So many channels never tell you anything about the machine, and for someone like myself with little to no exposure to beasts like this none of it is obvious. The extra work you put into making a good video is very appreciated.
Usually for clearance issues like this I chuck on another chuck to allow for the clearance. I believe it was one of your videos that helped me figure out out. It was a job where you had bored the jaws with a dovetail and the part you turned had a dovetail as well. I have a set of dovetail jaws and the backing plate on the chuck has the same dovetail. Makes for a nice rigid setup to push the job further away from the Z limit clearance.
Thank you Peter, your videos are never too long. You could make a four hour video and I, and most of your subscribers, would watch it without a problem. Keep up the great work.
Absolutely fantastic, never apologise. Love your work, Your vids, And your attention to detail. I hope 25k views and 40k subs shows appreciation for your delivery in what is essentially a very narrow subject. On to the next!
Excellent description of the API thread, for those who don't know, the male and female lock together on both the tapered thread and shoulder, that precipitation hardening stainless steel is not the easiest to machine or weld. Thanks for sharing.
Great men has great skills and always have time to share those wisdoms. Thanks a lot... Love to see and solving bottlenecks on set up and machining the part, in order to have that costumer great satisfaction... Dreaming to see you in person.
@ 27:10 I'm thinking of the time I turned a piece of pipe on my min-lathe with 1/4" NPT male threads on each end that had to be a specific length once assembled and leak free. A few minutes later I feel like the toddler that is so proud of getting the round peg in the round hole.. /s (Your work and attention to detail is awesome, thank you for taking the time to show the effort that is involved in a project such as this!"
Api threads are easy to machine. Premium connections can be a bigger challenge. I remember using 16 offsets to machine a connection with a double thread, tapered with a dovetail thread form in Inconel. £7000 for 1 connection
I remember back in the late 70’s early 80’s I cut many of these API threads internal and external from 6 up 12 inch, the bigger ones had 2 TPI. Did the machining on a new 24 inch heavy duty Rex cut Mazak, they were a powerful work horse.The go, no go gauges came from a company in Texas, these where precision ground. Yes many shops were still all manual in those days. Know dought some of the old school machinists will remember cutting these API drill ends. The setup, the machining and the thread fitting all done manually. How times have changed, I guess for the better😎
Realy good explanation of the part, and you know what, it exactly took the time needed, so video not to long, if it was shorter we would not have had all the info.
Hi Brother I had a wire machine(Elox-Fanuc), Mori Sieki (SL-3H) turning center and a Fadal VMC 4020. Each machine has it's limits as you know. Getting by sometimes works, sometimes not. I enjoy your content, great job !
@@gusmcgussy3299 I'm not always a stickler for grammar, but when I do, I make sure to start a sentence with a capital letter. Also, both joga and yoga are a thing now, joga being more specified towards athletes, and yoga more aimed at keeping a pose for a long time without sleeping. As far as my understanding goes, that is.
Waiting for episodes from inside threading API and how to measure them without 2000$ Gage things 😉😉 Nice job on That CAD view in video 👍👍 @hippoxcncworks
There is a figure of speech in Sweden that says, "If you haven't failed, you haven't done anything at all.". It was you who crashed the machine!? (Joking) Great channel, great content. You remind me of someone that has taught me everything about turning. Unfortunately, he passed away a year ago. Keep up your good work, and tell your boss that you need a new machine soon that can travel further back in the Z axis! Greetings, from Sweden!
Nice video on tapered threads. It would be nice to maybe make a video about how to calculate the thread and how to program the thread for us curious on how to program it. Maybe a 8 round API Eue thread and 3/4 taper per foot would be a good one to make a video of
Hi Peter, check to see if you can modify the cover of the main spindle. check if you have something in the back of the cover that you can modify and cut the sheet metal and reweld it. or install the smaller chuck in the main check and you will have the clearance.
With your knowledge you could probably design and built your own CNC machines when you team up with skilled electrical engineers and programmers. ;) Always impressive.
I regularly get small milling parts to do in my mill turn and the office dwellers really have no idea of the capacity of the machine. They love turning small milling jobs into complex millturn jobs
I really enjoy your videos and have learned a lot about setting up and creating fixtures for complex jobs. One thing I would have done differently here is to concentric machine the ring you used to preload the jaws before cutting them. Just a thought. You are the expert, I am an amateur.
@@RobotArms24 I know that. You can run the jaws all the way to the end of thier travel one way or another and still center a part if that is how you want to run the job BUT, the jaws you cut will have a radius that is not centered on the spindle if you don't set them equidistant to begin with.
@@glenncerny8403 That's true, the cuts wont be perfectly centered on the jaw. But, i think the only issue might be the balance of the chuck. It might cause some vibration and chatter if it is not very rigid. It might also take longer to set the jaws up for another job, because each jaw will be at a different position. I agree that it would be better to start with a perfect ring, but sometimes good enough is good enough. The cost of the time to machine the ring is probably not worth it.
do you or can you angle your turning tools instead of keeping them vertical? Around the X axis (lathe convention), that would be like angling your toolpost.
Peter, do you always Thread Mill from the top to the bottom? If so could you explain to me why? Also, the info you gave me on Milling 316 L SS with a Feedmill was some of the best advice I’ve gotten in a long time!! It’s working great!!
With a tool that has a shorter cut length than the thread, yes. I feel that it gives coolant and shavings a better exit. Also with this kind of cutter you are always milling into a already cut thread. It puts less load on the top of the tool. That said I have never done a test on tool life doing it both ways.
It seems like the designer should tighten the tolerance on the projection for manufacturing? I also saw the surface finish note on the shoulder, was thinking no way, but then realized the drawing is metric.
is theere any reason why you can't do the flange at the opposite end of the stock and then flip it - or will that just move the problem? Thanks for great content, we learn a lot.
API threads are a large thread form. Even large machines can have a hard time cutting them if your not chucked on substantial chunk of material. The other potential issue is that by finishing the other end first there's likely no room to push the thread back and recut it if it doesn't gauge.
I cut nptf threads every day, we do a similar trick to make sure we Crest with the insert. We turn to the mx step on the 6 step, then thread to the bt, so you know the insert has full control of the thread profile.
On Niles-Simmons machines they place the spindle nose farther forward to prevent such issues...but then those are stouter and far more expensive machines than these...
what about doing the acme threads first then make the soft jaws to clamp on the acme threads and Z would be the flange face? Or would you still not have clearance?
It is necessary to do the API end first. This is because if for some reason I was to overshoot the gauge length (make it to short) I could trim off the end of the part to recover. If I did this on the second end it would make the over all length of the part to short.
I certainly have. I have put my 6" kurt vise in a 4 jaw and chucked that up to cut some compound angles. The job was a nightmare but when it came back through and nobody knew how to do it it got me a pretty good size raise. I love the problem solving aspect of complex machined parts. That and working on 3-4 jobs under time constraints. I thrive and excel under pressure for some reason.
With your skillset, I imagine you could make a spindle and draw tube extension, moving the chuck an inch or two away from the cabinet, giving you more clearance
Just going through your older videos that I hadn't seen.. I would think you've considered modifying the machine. Are there any critical parts behind those faces that would crash? Could you give yourself some more clearance if you chopped out the faces a bit? Just random thoughts of a madman. Thanks for all you do.
When I have jobs like that if the material is weldable I would weld a piece of suitable round billet to the bare stock. Do my machining and then remove the part after the first operation, machine or grind away the weld, dress and then finish. Especially helpful when you have no spare material to chuck on but need to machine most of the outside of your blank. Obviously the weld can affect high carbon parts but you get the idea.
I do have a 8" chuck rigged that way. But its to small for this. Putting the taller jaws solved the issue. I may make a spacer to put in between this chuck and the spindle nose. It only need to be about 2" tall. Would make a good project for a RU-vid video.
Hi, your problem with the "SafetyShield", the Housing is easy to fix. just make a Flange for the chuck in minimum the Spindle needs to go zero to zero to the Chuck... or if you want to work in 'negative' ankle some longer
@@EdgePrecision Ouch. Longer jaws is probably the most pain free then. I've seen guys weld extensions onto softjaws as well but it looks like you've solved it this way. You should show measuring taper and how you need to skip first and last threads due to pull out and reduced cut depth (from the front bevel). Have you done any 3/8 per inch taper mod acme threads? The tolerance on those radially boggles the mind haha.
Yep we have a 200s IV. Got extended tools also. Front cover above chuck we get close to head doing 5 axis work. Some of our parts the B is at 135 so back of spindle gets close
@@Sicktrickintuner thanks for the reply. I really liked the video and pretty cool part you made. Machining tapered threads is pretty tricky. Too bad they dont have an extended Chuck for that mazak. All in all great video thanks for sharing.
I have thought about that. Sort of a spacer between the spindle and chuck. I also have thought about some spacers under the hard jaws. Say about 2” tall.
haven't finished watching yet, but couldnt you drill the holes on the end of the part and turning the side with an acme thread first, then doing the api thread last op? english is not my main language, sorry if I worded it in a confusing way
It’s important to do the API threaded end first. If I have to trim off the length to get the gauge length correct. The other end with the acme thread won’t require that. The overall length has a dimension. Trimming off the length if necessary for the API thread could put that out of tolerance.
I do that for smaller parts. You can see that in many of my videos. This Api Round thread is kind of coarse and I wanted things a rigid as possible. The stock was also already cut to length so there was very little to hold on to. So I felt like the bigger chuck would do a better job.
The reason its important to do the taper thread first is because of the standoff distance. If for some reason you overshoot it (Make it to small) you can face off the end and the shoulder to bring it back in. If you had already machined the other end this would make the part short or out of tolerance. With the straight thread its only the diameter that is critical. This wont change the parts length like the taper shoulder dimension would.
Yes for smaller parts I do use a 8” three jaw chuck with a dovetail mount in the 4 jaw chuck. You may have seen this in some of my videos. But doing this rather coarse thread I worry about chatter in the thread using a smaller chuck.
You didn't show us the turning operations :( also Peter, the first thread allways gets sharp, how did you eliminated the sharpness? Did you stop using Fusion 360? It would be great if you can tell us your cutting conditions and inserts you are using. I had a visit this week from Kennametal guys and they showed me how to use their app NOVO but it didn't showed the speeds very easily
There are two ways to make a blunt start. Mill it if the machine has milling capability. This is the way I do it on the Integrex. Or with a grooving tool and a very short threading cycle. Basically the grooving tool is set with its end parallel to the threads taper. Than the threading cycle is just long enough to cut the start of the thread when it’s pulling out. This makes the blunt start. All you have to do is adjust the offsets so it just trims off the beginning of first revolution of the thread. Slower speed makes a steeper blunt start. There is a relationship to the way the machine retracts the tool in relation to the speed.
@@abramfriesen9834 These Styl of threads you pretty much need some kind of gauge to check the standoff. With these gauges you measure the stand-off at the thread end like I show in the video. If you don’t have enough cut the thread deeper. If you went to far face off some material on the end. If you have to maintain some kind of length on the part. As I did in this video you should cut the thread shallow and keep trying the gauge, recutting the thread a little deeper until you get the proper stand-off on the gauge. Just be carful when you get close. It doesn’t take much. Even spring passes can make enough difference. You can trig out the difference knowing the taper of the thread your doing. But don’t try to do it in one cut. Do a little and try the gauge. Until you get there. Even wear on the insert can make a difference.
I can not stop thinking that in order to avoid collisions you could rotate tool holder into horizontal position and then use a boring bar to machine the outside diameters.
In this case it wasn't the turning tools that were the problem. In their case I could rotate the B axis to gain clearance. It was the milling tools and they cant be rotated from 90 degrees.
On threading on this the infeed was straight in no angle. I can’t remember the actual depth? I think the thread was a four pitch or .25”. But an API thread is rounded so it would be a little less then a normal four pitch thread.
@@EdgePrecision Thank you very much for your fast reply. One last question, if I would like to be certified for API thread, do you have any recommendations for which Certification i should go for as a start? Many thanks!!
@@ahmedalmatooq1352 Sorry I would like to help but I don’t know anything about that. There are some special threads for companies around here that require companies that only certified shops to do their proprietary threads. But there are also many standard API threads that don’t require this.
I can't imagine that screw hole has a clocking tolerance so why not turn the thread and do the counterbores, then screw that part into a matching female threaded dummy slug to hold the part off away and finish the rest. Should avoid the need to use the copper band to keep from marring the part too.
It's not really relevant to this video. But is it possible to thread mill an internal tapered thread say NPT or BSPT? I realise it could be turned, but I'd guess it could need either a special thread mill or a 5 axis capability to mill it? It would make an interesting video for sure. Great video as always, thanks
@@EdgePrecision How it was possible to keep the thread angle at 55 or 60 degrees from the pitch line when milling the thread, are there thread mills to compensate for the thread taper?
don,t they have somekind long shaft what you can put the tool and that way get this movingpart that name ii dont know closer to chuck. i hope you understand what i try to say because i dont hace right vocabulary for this kind of machines and jobs because i,m electrician not machinist.😮 and my native language is finnish not english and dictionarys often don.t know specific word for machining tool parts. if you know fin eng fin dictionary that haver machining terms please put a link to it for me, but i still like to watch you working because always learns something new or even things you haad never heard or know they even exist. so thanks for interesting videos. 😀
Thanks Alex! If I understand you correctly. I machined these parts this way because the stock was provided to me already cut to this length. Or. Kiitos Alex! Jos ymmärrän sinut oikein. Työstin nämä osat tällä tavalla, koska varastossa toimitettiin minulle jo leikattu tähän pituuteen. Tämä on Google-kääntäjän suomenkielinen käännös. Toimiiko tämä sinulle? Jos näin on, anna minulle kommentteja sen avulla. Tai suomeksi ja käännän ne Google Kääntäjän avulla.
Hi this situation is a real " pita" ...I guess this Integrex is not mounted with a cylinder, so maybe this chuck is thinner than a hydraulic chuck... I would seriously look to change or extend the adapter behind that chuck ...
@@EdgePrecision Take a look at this video iv done around 37 seconds ... Maybe it can give you some more advanced idea.... I run a table/table DMG 5 axis mill-turn and i have made this D1-8 adapter for my table. I only ordered the cams trough e-bay. The adapter is hardened to 52 Rc. I can switch in less than 10 minutes from a 3 to 4 jaws chuck for smaller parts otherwise a have made a set of box jaws but they are not shown in this video. ( ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-jPn42mADLCo.html )
@@EdgePrecision Yes ... I like it very much !!! And im (or was :-) ) a mazak guy.... I grew up running mainly integrex's and many other but this one with de Siemens Ergoline is really well built and fun to run. There is no comparison with older siemens systems.
