Apogee does not measure above 660nm, did you know that? I found that out in 2 minutes of research. You guys just make videos about your ignorant observations and than idiots act like they learned something from you. It’s useless information.
Marcus Orillius WOW! Yeah ur so right. If you do 30 seconds of research you’d know that these sensors measure to just above 690nm. Above that starts getting into infrared. The red light I tested is not even close to 690nm anyway. You know why they don’t measure above that...because beyond that is not really photosynthetically active radiation. Some infrared can trigger a different growth characteristic in some plants, but it’s not part of a par measurement for that reason. And yeah this is just completely useless information. Absolutely nothing can be learned from this. 🙄 www.apogeeinstruments.com/full-spectrum-quantum-sensor/
@Marcus ignorance:.... So stop watching his videos and continue being a douchbag somewhere else!! (speaking-of-research: you clearly didn't do your homework before choosing it as that's just embarrassing if you find out what your hero was known for behind closed doors... but thank you for the laugh either way! cheers
Hey guys I know this is an older video and a good one at that. But can your really justify $500-$550 bucks over $150-$175. I would love to own an apogee but I can't justify that much money. If you want the accuracy of an apogee and want to save SOME money buy an apogee sensor and use a multimeter as your display. Most of the sensors if I recall right work on a voltage range(I will look again but i think millivolts )I know the conversion for a given voltage reading is to multiply your meter reading by 5. Please don't take what I am saying as me bashing him just trying to make sure someone points out that we are comparing a Ferrari to a Mazda. Great video thank you for taking the time to show the DIFFERENCE in a price. Yes the apogee is the benchmark but he even said that I cant tell you if the apogee is 100% accurate BUT I find it hard to believe they would sell a $550 meter and it be inaccurate. So think of his video this way do you want to spend $150 on a meter that is 70-75%% as accurate as the leading apogee $550 that has showing you
I have the hydro farm meter and what I been doing is adding 10% everytime with my LED lights. It's hard to say how much far red and blue it's not picking up but it looks like its 10-20% short depending on the type of light and its spectrum. I'm trusting apogee over hydro farms readings because they are known to be trusted for their precision.
Conservation bio student here.. If you have any t12 cool whites and a spare minute, I need to know how many bulbs of what length at what distance to get 40 umol/m2/s to grow a very rare species for conservation. I know distance between bulbs will make a difference, but if you've got a shop light or houselight, they are pretty standard. Also bless your heart for making this review. It was exactly what I needed to know. It seems the hydrofarm is more accurately calibrated to lower light levels, but generally I grow more medium to medium high light-demanding species.
Thanks for making this. I have the hydrofarm meter. Do you know if there's a multiplication factor to use on the hydrofarm readings to bring them in line with what the apogee gets?
But what I did notice is that the hydrofarm meter was pretty constant with its readings being slightly lower than the apogee. It did vary more on the higher reading and of course it's not as well made but the numbers dont lie. Knowing this it might be worth it til I can afford an apogee...
The Apogee reads steady due to the low tolerances it allows. The Hydrofarm is showing the actual reading. The Apogee costs more and it is way less of a meter when compared to an actual light generator set to given frequencies. In this instance cheaper is better.
Really appreciate the extensive comparisons. Well done sir. They give you an affiliate link or anything for that meter. I'm considering getting one if I can fit it in the budget.
Stabby McStabwood no link, sorry. The apogee being waterproof is a no brainer if you also do planted aquariums. Otherwise the hydrofarm is a great meter for those just getting started. For what I do though, apogee is a must have. Specifically the full spectrum mq/sq-500. It covers almost the entire par range vs their older models.
They have that sensor with a usb lead also, right? Not as convenient using a laptop, but much cheaper. I'd stretch my budget to get a real reliable sensor.
The differences in value related to angle of sensor appears to support this theory (that hydrofarm model is displaying a PAR value though the sensor is calculating lux). Lux is angle sensitive whereas ppfd is total light PAR and angle likewise isn't as significant. If it's legit and can be brought to market at such lower cost, why no other competition in this niche but hydrofarm?
Would you recommend this to a smaller scale grower ? I costs as much as each LED I just bought lol but I really want to be dialed in. How long do these typically last do parts need to be replaced ?
Although I want the apogee for its obviously better build quality........knowing the accurate PAR just isn't that critical for growth in lieu of other factors like water parameters (EC, pH, DO, ORP, etc) , soil moisture, compaction, RH, Temp, and many other things *worth* spending a lot on highly accurate devices. Get the hydrofarm and assume its the absolute minimum PAR reading that spot is getting, if anything bump it up 10-15%, that $400 difference that a quick calculation can accommodate for isn't worth it lol. What home grower is going to improve his yields by finding out that same spot is really receiving 700umol vs 600umol????????? Especially if he spends 400 more to find out? Obviously if you're a light tester or lighting company, yes you want the Apogee but this video seemed geared to home growers, which seems a bit odd. It's like comparing a 2017 Dodge Viper ACR-E to a 2010 v6 mustang when the person only has 15k w/tax to spend?
i think the apogee shows more, because the sq-500 this apogee meter in this video is using is reactive to even very left Blue thats not even in the spectrum anymore. It can see UV a bit. E. g. as you showed the blue led and red led standalone you can tell that the apogee is more blue affine by this fact (clear me out, I just saw this fact in an apogee video on explaining the sq 100 and the newer one. the apogee metre in this video is using the newer one sensor
Kind of late but maybe you will see this. I have one of these crap par meters and the wires broke from inside the main digital handheld part. Wondering if you could let me know in what order the 4 wires are in soldered to the back of the circuit board from left to right if youre holding it backside up. I think its labeled back there but just want to make sure with a meter that works. I couldnt find a tear down of fix video to double check. Thanks.
Add a lux meter as a third control and I'm betting the differences between these two meters is reflected by the lux meter. Specifically, the lux meter and the hydrofarm will deviate in similar proportions under different lights.
what I get from this video is that the Apogee gives a little higher reading because it measures between 389 to 692 nm and the hydrofarm measures between 400 to 700 nm the Apogee measures some of the UVA. It's good to know that you can get a decent light meter for not so much money and if you think you really need it you can get a professional one if you need it. the hydrofarm meter is on Amazon for $51 at the time I made this post and thats Canadian dollars
For all white lighting or variants of, a lux meter works just as well for a measuring tool. Par meters are for when precision is needed (lab stuff). Or when comparing other colored lights.
@@GrowingAnswers exactly right, the corona app is also a good option for the home grower if you use it properly with a piece of white paper over the lens.I've compared it with the hydrofarm meter and it is surprisingly close, not bad for a free app and better than a lux meter if you are changing your lights for flowering like most of us old school growers that are still using HID lights because you can make better decisions on when to retire bulbs
I've had 3 of those hydrofarm meters. All 3 failed within 1 year. Battery packs swelled up on 1 and wouldnt charge, Lens popped of another, the third one solder joint failed at the sensor. I resoldered it a few times but it kept happening. The design is crap... Too much strain on the wire. I finally realized I would spend $500 replacing these junk meters and bit the bullet and ordered the apogee. I regret nothing.
I mean if you consider all the sources of light you tested, find an average difference between the two meter readings you'll get 15% difference give or take. If you take the Apogee as the correct reading, you could then take your Hydrofarm meter reading ( which is about 15% less) and add 15% to the reading to get the "Apogee reading". If I used the Hydrofarm and measured my grow light at 400par at a specific distance, its safe say to say that the Apogee will read around 460par. Sure this isn't exact, but its damn close. That's good enough for me when considering $50 vs $600 for a meter. Does this make sense? Or am I out to lunch? Key point im trying to make here is $50 vs $600 and the tolerance of accuracy. If you have C02, climate control, multiple lights then im sure $600 is well worth is because you've already spent the money. But for a 4x4 tent grower like me, the $50 meter seems to make sense. Feedback appreciated. Thanks
Why don't just buy a even cheaper lux meter and do the PAR conversion (what hydrofarm does) + Hydrofarm does not work for advanced spectrum, can't sense colors as a real PAR meter does. If you want to know how much PAR is added with X much of red and far red you have to use a PAR meter, Hydrofarm want work
I went through three $50 hydrofarms before I decided that the crap build quality was going to cost me more in the long run. Then I spent the cash on the apogee mq500 and never looked back.
Great video! Was looking forward to CMH, as well as top bin LED's, such as the Cree CXB-3590's. I'm also thinking that if spectrum is the same(all CMH, or all Cree CXB-3590's), a Lumen meter, much less expensive, would be perfect! Any info on Apogee price? Thanks again my friend!
Lumen meter would only work if you have already established optimal proximity on a light you always use. If using other lights, the measurement won’t be accurate because it measures mainly in the green part of the spectrum. Apogee sells separate parts, but a meter with a sensor is around $500.
@@rapidash1999 Well, at this time( I believe that comment was awhile older, but just saying if using top bin LED''s, or MH, oldest tech, with exact same wattage/spectrum/height from the canopy, THEN you could, not as accurately as a PAR meter, see which is more efficient depending on driver/driverless power efficiency, as well as CRI with LED's(70CRI, 80CRI) For COB's, the Luminous Gen 4 are tops over Cree( I like the adjustability, angles, as well as height movement, I went cheaper, yet with the Citizen COB's, maybe 10% less efficient than Cree CXB-3590's? And a proven standard for a few years! Time, or technology flies though! I recently tried a $90, HLG-65, very nice, very efficient, using Samsung LED's, and the ChilLed "Pucks are great!", over 2/umols per watt, pretty sure. MIGRO channel is tops for LED's, and Shane, the host,while selling his Migro lights, he'll test any requests, usually buying himself, sometimes gifted, nothing held back, easily admitting his light isn't as efficient! Very Honest! Great channel! High quality craftsmanship, waterproof, advertised in aquarium, a foot below water, no problems. 5K, nice veg unit with 170l+lumens/per watt is last 2 of his videos, latest on driverless LED's, very interesting, short! Great guy graeft
@@timturk1899 yea im a fan of MIGRO too, I am currently looking for luminus cxm-32 gen 4 but cant find them anywhere. I was looking at digikey,mouser and all the other big sellers. Also Samsung just wrote an article about new lm301h diodes that are suposedly 3.10 μmol/J. Technology sure does develop crazy fast. Cheers
also.. if you could share what reading on the hydro farm would represent 900 +/- 25 on the appogee using a spyder/zues/slim600h type light.. would be helpful
Why assume Apogee is accurate while HydroFarm's is not? (It can be the case, but I don't see the support for that in the video. It is like judging which watch has the right time while comparing only two. Also, the sensitivity of HydroFarm might actually reflect the reading in real-time vs Apogee is filtering out the changes or just slow in getting numbers. Notice that under the sun, the HydroFarm changes less, maybe the light is flickering? But I agree that more stable reading is better for us to understand the context. In fact, the numbers don't need to be accurate, as in most cases, readings are impacted by location, position, and surroundings, and not an accurate representation of what plants get after all. In my opinion, both meters can only be used in relative cases, especially indoors or in a tent. Reflection makes big difference in overall impact. Measuring spot reading only above the canopy in a certain direction seems a strange idea, though it does help. It might also provide false assurance or cause unnecessary costs. I am also inclined to say Apogee is better because it is more expensive (I fall for that notion). But just comparing the two, it is hard to say what reading is more accurate. It is possible that both are not accurate. People just want to have a winner for peace of mind.
My hydro farm lux/FC/c takes a coin cell ... And it's always dead when I reach for it... Really annoying. I was surprised to see a lithium pack when you removed the cover.
Why would the cheaper meter attempt to go to 2 decimal places, same thing with pH meters, my Bluelab goes to 1 decimal place and the $10 Chinese one goes to 2, but also never stands still.
You have the version upgrade full spectrum sensor attached to your apogee, the hydrofarm does not read full spectrum- so you have illustrated a known difference. Try the mq200 against it or the mq500 with the older sensor- otherwise this apples and oranges.
It’s not apples to oranges. It’s not based on what a person prefers in that analogy. The point is to show the difference between a cheap meter and a higher end one. Basically if the cheap one is good enough to use and with what types of light. people who want accuracy can go with the expensive one. People who can settle for an approximation can go with a cheap one. If I showed the old version, people would rather buy the cheap one if they both aren’t accurate for full spectrum led.
@@GrowingAnswers But it is, if you use the old version sensor- did you know you have the new one with a wider sensitivity? its silver opposed to the old black one ( by old I mean last year) the hydrofarm spectral sensitivity is more in line with that older sensor, compare the old and new apogee mq500 full spectrum sensors ( they still sell both) and you will note the same range of value differences- go read the specs, that's my apple to orange argument.
IthinkthereforeIam OrsoIthought i understand. But I’m not trying to compare sensor quality here. It’s like comparing 4 wheel drive to 2 wheel drive. One is obviously going to be better.
IthinkthereforeIam OrsoIthought people want to know if it’s worth getting a full spectrum meter. There are no cheap full spectrum meters. So this is about comparing them to help people decide if the extra money is worth it. (2WD vs (4WD)
@@GrowingAnswers but your experiment does not show that the apogee is better. but what it does show is that obviously different sensors give different sizes. Which sensor is now better? Which sensor now is more PAR-efficient?
The all red LED was very close, but the Hydrofarm always seems to be under, always. I noticed he mentions no difference in angle w/the Apogee, but when at an angle using MH, Apogee changes quite a bit? I wanted to see "closer to sunlight" CMH, as well as top COB's/HLG Boards. If the lights spectrum is exactly the same, same output, an old school Lumen meter may work better! Say using all Cree-CXB-3590's, for an even canopy footprint, Lumens(from equivalent lights) should be a cheaper method. Apogee seem tops, from what I've seen, yet probably double the Hydrofarm price?..Great question about video!
If we increase the values of the Hydrofarm by 20%, the readings would not be so different. The real problem would be if we want to outdistance multiple lights because the meter would not be able to measure correctly in the intersection points where the light is not radial.
@@markwoodward412 True, but in other comparative videos between the Hydrofarm and more reliable quantum meters it seems that the first one always show minor readings. If we use a conservative approch we could underestimate that value by 20% so the plants shouldn't suffers severe hotspots. It remains the most economic meter and obviously it cannot be realiable as the ones that costs 5 times more. The only cheaper alternative is using a infrared thermometer but in my experience it is not a reliable method.
@@GrowingAnswers come on man dont be like that i wasnt inferring that your going to be making ridiculous claims ...... "they didnt pay me they gave me a meter" lol. Just busting ya balls. Good vid 👍
Looks to be the Hydrofarm sensor doesn't read some spectrums so the apogee is reading higher which to me is more in line with it's quality and sensitivity, 🤷♂️huh you get what you pay for ..... I just want to add that, the radiation field from your cell phone messes with alot of Electronics, especially Electronic instruments that measures via using sensitivity ( just think about it these sensors are basically Ultra sensitive scales measuring the amount of light particles hitting the surface area of the sensors/scale buy volume) best believe electromagnetic fields interfere with the 7 wavelength of light, radio waves, microwaves, infrared (IR), visible light, ultraviolet (UV), X-rays and gamma rays ( known to some people as the seven faces or seven spirits of God, of course Sun worshipping theologians🙄 ) I wonder if the par meters would be more stable in a clean environment ..... PS I would just go with the high number of the Hydrofarm everytime, that seems to be more in line with the apogee 🤷♂️. ✌💚
@@GrowingAnswers maybe it's not interfering, have you checked out the Futurehorti Fh-100 wifi par meter its only 60$ I wonder if it's any good🤷♂️ for the money (maybe it's just a Hydrofarm par meter sensor in a Wi-Fi configuration)? which I wouldn't complain for only $60 😁....✌💚
@@ronevergrow8319 The Hydro farm is most likely just a modified lux meter. Modified so that it automatically converts white light lux into par. The peaks are mainly in the green yellow spectrum like most lux meters.
We are sponsored by Apogee and today we will do some really pathetic test to show those who sponsor us is better. How do we know the Apgee is actually got the right reading we dont but we will assume it is cause we are getting paid to say it is.
I didn’t get paid to say anything. I got a meter to test out. That’s it. Apogee is just about the only good one out there. I used a hydrofarm for a long time and it wasn’t reliable enough to conduct my experiments with. That’s why I compared the 2. Hydrofarm isn’t even a real par meter. It’s just a lux meter using a conversion factor to approximate par. It works ok with white light sources, but that’s it. As far as “how do we know” I guess the same can be said about many things. A little research and comparing is all it takes. Apogee makes their equipment for lab use. It’s highly calibrated.
You must have an issue patience. It was less than 2 minutes. "In depth" means going over specs and features which both of these have more of that I never mentioned. The majority of this video was comparing them in-use and not a specific review. So what you are trying to say with your comment is not accurate.
"this video is sponsored by the more expensive subject" Cool a bias video. So buy the hydrofarm, don't angle it and add +100 umols. Save hundreds of dollars. Cool.
Or use a par meter with a calibrated conversion factor. I didn’t get paid, I got a meter. I purchased my own hydrofarm and lux meters. A good par meter is worth it’s weight when you need one all the time and want reliable measurements for any type of lighting. It got pretty annoying trying to use the lesser options for the type of stuff I use it for.
