How about the fact the at Eaven looks identical to her mom, you can argue Raven looks like Snow White but she looks a lot more like her own mom. Also the powers
Please drag Headmaster Grimm as well! He is SO messy! He IMPRISONED his brother underneath the school and put a spell on him so no one could understand him! And instead of jumping him as soon as the girls freed him, Giles Grimm(the brother) decides to FORGIVE Headmaster Grimm for imprisoning him, lying to everyone about him, and locking him up, putting a spell on him! Like wtf?
Not to mention she’s always acting like following your destiny is a must even though it’s so easy for her to say that because she’s not the one who’s destiny is to be arrested, imprisoned, and full on hated and out-casted by society for the rest of her life.
The way even Briar snapped at her at one point. Coz yeah, it's easy to say we need to follow our destinies Apple, but we dont all get to be queens with great destinies, but some of us would lose our families, our lives just to follow the destinies we were given.
I mean people act like apples story is great. Apple is literally meant to be cast out from her home and live with dwarfs as their servant until she is poisoned. Apple has a bad story but she was raised into believing it was good.
the worst part is that technically Raven isn't supposed to get evil,live miserable and be imprisoned,she's supposed to *die* when the girlies have to go break the curse on milton's stupid brother by going into the book of legends,they technically faced the destinies for real,they were SURVIVING the fate the book is meant to give to them and in Apple's fairytale point of view,the evil queen falls off a cliff. ,,,,,,,,Raven is truly meant to be broken consciously to become a hate filled person and then die,it's a thousand times more unfair knowing this
Even Briar calls her out for this. Saying it’s so easy for Apple to say cursed sleep is no big deal when she’s only going to sleep for a week or so. Briar has to sleep for 100 years and all her friends and loved ones are probably going to be dead.
At least in the books, Raven asks Apple an important question, and the question is, " If you had to be the villain, would you still want to follow your destiny?" And Apple says yes in a serious tone. So there you have it! 😂😂😂😂😂
“Hey, I know we’ve been besties for like… forever. But if you could get everything you wanted, but ruin my life in the process, would you?” “Oh. In a heartbeat.”
@spooktoonz Oof. When you put it that way....😂😭😭😭😭😭Granted, in the books, Raven and Apple are friends but not BEST friends. Ravens' besties are actually Maddie and Cedar. Similar to Apple's besties being Ashlynn and Briar.
Apple says at one point that she has a genuine fear that all fairy tale characters and their children will cease to exist if they don’t follow their stories (which I believe was backed up by the headmaster at some point) so I do get it to a degree. Her lack of empathy toward Raven at some points is really frustrating though, especially when it’s smaller things that shouldn’t matter toward that fear. I remember the bake off where the entire time Apple is like “oh you’re gonna poison me aren’t you? Let’s see how you poison me! Can’t wait to get poisoned!” meanwhile Raven is just trying to have a fun time without worrying about future stuff. Just her enjoy her day!!
No fr! Also, Raven has had her whole life controlled by her Destiny. She isn’t really allowed any freedom in her story. She's cursed if she does, cursed if she doesn’t. She HAS to be evil. But not TOO evil. She has to only be evil the way they want her to be. Raven isn’t even allowed to be herself because if she's kind, people think it's a trap or they laugh at her and think she's weird. I'm annoyed cause Ravens side is shown better in books.
i don't think she has a fear that all fairy tale characters will cease to die because it's pointed out that only those who do rebel against their fate are the ones that might disappear/story end up 'wrong' (which was also proven wrong). which is why she was angry that raven rebelled against hers, because it would mean she herself won't get the happy ending her mother did. she always says how important raven is to HER story. she knew raven would suffer for her own happiness and she wanted that.
I feel like she has very traditional mindset, like you saw her reaction when she found out that Hunter and Ashleen (probably didn't wrote that right) were dating. She doesn't know what will happen if someone won't follow their destiny so she practically tries to force Raven to become like her mother, so Apple could have her happy ending
In the books, it’s because she was pushed into a well as a kid, and almost died. It gave her an immense fear of the unknown She feels like her destiny is the only thing keeping her-and the other royales safe. Honestly, I don’t blame her. Raven was equally selfish. Raven was fully prepared to erase apple white from existence solely because of what she wanted. Raven didn’t know if something would happen. She was literally willing to kill apple They’re both meant to be selfish
@@Milkythefawn i don't think raven ever wanted apple to disappear? isn't it known that it'll just be raven who will disappear if she didn't sign her fate and not anyone else? it's just that apple indeed won't have the same happy ending like snow white did if that happened.
@@garukong. she def didn’t WANT apple to disappear… Raven is a good person.. but she was still willing to risk it by not signing the book. The exact wording was “If you don't sign, your story disappears-poof!-and you may vanish into oblivion” It wasn’t exactly clear what that meant for apple
I think that's the point, Apple IS the selfish one. And she has a legitimate redemption arc that took ACTUAL time, which, I loved. She wasn't just raised to think like that, but manipulated by everyone in her life that's an adult. I'm not excusing her behaviour, but she's certainly not a Villain. She's the misguided one that needed to improve herself. I think the show did a good job at making her the selfish one while never directly saying it.
THISSS ☝️ I don't necessarily agree with pinning all of the show's issues on her. Everyone in the show sucks at least a little in their own way. ESPECIALLY Headmaster Grimm, Snow White and the Evil Queen
THANK YOU!! SAY IT LOUDER!! The fandom should notice by now that the way Apple is written is literally morally gray, she's a genuine good person who wants the best for everyone but does the wrong/bad actions bcuz of how she was raised. Just bcuz people didn't get a clear example of Apple being manipulated doesn't mean it didn't happen when her mindset is the result of it, one could imagine how much manipulation she had behind closed doors with her mom esp the pressure and expectations she should obtain. But then again haters just love to cherry pick and dismiss it, ig it's easier for them to blame someone than look at the bigger picture and "have some empathy" to see where the problem is rooted all along and that should be people with mindsets like Snow White, the Evil Queen, Headmaster Grimm, the White family etc.
Every time Apple has some form of redemption, she always ruins it she has her. I'm sorry moments and then turns around and it's just herself all over again. Apple is just too apple is that's just what it is and she's not a good person. She thinks she's a good person, but she's so self-centered and narcissistic that she can't even see that she's not. And sadly there's no cure for narcissism
@@lestell2158 I think we can blame the writers for that since Apple finally came around in Way Too Wonderland and Raven has successfully rewritten destiny so that conflict should've been over by now but then they went back to square one in Dragon Games (could've just released MH x EAH crossover first tho imo). Don't get me wrong cuz as much as I love the movie, they could've handled Apple's arc there better where we see her being manipulated not just Snow White but like her whole White Family as well cue her quote how much she value their family tradition as her fam slowly doubts her becoming the next Snow White since she's not as close minded as she was for the rebels. We gotta remember how wicked evil she was in Spring Unsprung when got cursed tho, yeah she's annoying to some but I think that movie just proves that even if Apple comes out as selfish due to the mindset she was raised- she's never selfish enough that can destroy the fairytale world w/o second thoughts
But she never got to change consistently and the writers never acknowledged her 'mistakes' as prejudiced and privileged, which meant her redemption arc kind of fell flat.
This is kinda why i think the novels are great. They give more context to Apple's behaviour. When she was a child she literally almost drowned and ended up so scared of unpredictable things. Because at least in her story, she knows whats going to happen and that gives her security. Not to mention that every single adult around her is just reinforcing that, ESPECIALLY Headmaster Grimm. Hes essentially manipulating her into surveilling Raven for him which is all levels of f*cked, also lots, and I mean LOTS of guilt tripping. I feel like people forget Apple is still a teen and easily swayed. Not to mention, she does have a whole character arc. Her problem is just that sometimes she doesnt quite realize that other people might NOT be happy with her destiny as she is, because she was raised to not question the status quo. Book Apple even states that if she were raised as the next evil queen, she'd also happily do that as much as she does now. Heck, she even risks her life in the book to go with Raven to convince her, so nothing bad happens to Raven and anyone else in case she makes the wrong call. WE, as the audience know no one will go poof and its just the headmaster trying to scare them into signing, but the CHARACTERS dont know that In my opinion, she's just a sheltered kid who doesnt have much social awareness, but nonetheless really cares about the people around her. The show doesn't quite do it AS well as the novels, but still. TLDR: Apple isnt the problem. Its always been Milton mf Grimm
There's a theory that Raven and Apple were switched at birth and honestly is checks out. Their personalities match up and the Evil queen had white hair like apple in the books
Although it's an interesting theory, I personally hate it. It discredts the fact Raven is kind and sweet, regardless of who her parents are, and that Apple (a genreally morally grey character) can make selfish decisions *despite* being the child of Snow White.
What's worse is that she says she knows her story like the back of her hand. So she knows that Raven will be kicked out of the kingdom, imprisoned, and killed if Raven follows her destiny and does the power-hungry, evil stuff her mom does. So she's basically telling Raven, "You may be my friend now, but i REALLY want you to poison me so it eventually leads to your death" 😊👍
@@Lulu_Loves_Sheep in the original story/movie of Snow White the evil queen falls of a cliff after lightning breaks it when she’s trying to move a boulder to crush the dwarves. Which is why I said leads to her death. Idk about the original Grimm story but In the show ig she’s only imprisoned so yeah the system sucks. Apple is a terrible friend who doesn’t realize that the stories only benefit the royal while most of the rebels would either die or be imprisoned
@@Mira_Simmons05 Imo the ones who suck the most are Headmaster Grimm and Snow White. HMG for planting the idea into Apple and Raven's heads that if they don't follow their fairytale, they will die. That's fear mongering. (Which is sort of true considering fairies have been *poofing.*) And clear signs of favoritism and literally locking his brother in what's practically a basement and taking away his ability to properly speak. SW for hammering the idea into her daughter's head that her entire worth is based on whether she follows her mum's path and placing unhelpful and unhealthy expectations of perfection
And the fact that she wanted her friend to break up with her boyfriend just because she didnt approve of him since hes not royal. She also invalidated and disregarded Briars feelings towards her curse, because "i have to be cursed too, youre not special🥺" not what she said but its what she meant. She pisses me off SO BAD since i was little kid.
That’s not true she only reason she acted that way is because she didn’t want both of their stories to close if something happens in the future she said it herself and dealt with it at the true hearts day thing
FR that woman gave me anger issues ✋😭 never have i ever wanted to strangle somebody so much when i was a CHILD (i still do but we won’t talk about that 🫣)
Honestly i like apple more in the books she actually helps raven a lot more amd yes she can still be shitty i haven't finished the book yet but so far apple seems way better in the books compared to the movies and it gives a lot more backstory on ravens past too which i absolutely love :D i also fully believe raven and apple were switched at birth there is so much stuff that makes it so believable
She also in the book did think she would go poof if raven didn't sign it like she literally thought she was going to die so in the book i defend her in the show tho i do think its kinda stupid she still wants raven to sign even after not going poof and having prove that no she isn't going to die
I acknowledge she is a complex character with a struggles, especially with all the pressure she's being out under... But goddamn does somebody gotta smack this girl
Remember in Dragon Games where she KNOCKED Darling(her prince charming's sister! Btw!) Off of her Dragon then acted shocked by her own actions? Then said " My friends are getting hurt because of YOU" to the Evil Queen?
@jazziethunderheart718 Daring and Dexter also should have had a reaction to that! They should have been so mad at Apple! I bet they would have been SHOOK cause, at least to them, Apple is a nice person.
YOU GET IT!!! Also like at the very beginning of the show Apple straight up does not care that Raven wanted and was all set up to room with Maddie and then decorates Ravens side of the room with her vision of what she wants Raven to be. Apple is just awful.
All of that is what makes her a fantastic antagonist and foil to both Raven and, to a lesser extent, Briar. She's sweet, kind... and perfectly willing to see the lives of people she loves destroyed for "the greater good" and most especially her own happily ever after.
@thedorkone1516 Yeah, I like Apple, but she's definitely really tone-deaf and isn't really clued into other people's issues. She really doesn't understand why her friends Raven and Briar wouldn't be looking forward to their stories because they don't exactly have happy endings. I was so vindicated when Briar called her out.
Kitty: just wants to prank and laugh with friends Maddie: just a silly girl Darling: badass princess Ginger: just a baking queen Briar: doesn't want to sleep forever Lizzie: wants to be a good friend Raven: misunderstood sweetheart Apple: m a n i p u l a t i v e v i l l a i n
She fr calls Raven selfish despite only thinking about her own future for half of the episodes and never thinking about how Raven feels. Like girl doesn't wanna be shunned and trapped in a mirror she just wants to vibe you can't blame her
Yes, but let’s not forget everyone thought it would make you dissapear. Raven was also only thinking about herself. If apple had been right, Raven would have killed both herself AND apple. Raven literally was willing to risk apple DYING, because she wanted to choose her destiny. How is that less selfish? Atleast apple thinks she’s helping people, Raven was willing to sacrifice apples life…
@Milkythefawn ehh not really Raven didn't believe that they all would go poof with good reason too,cause head master Grim was tripping with the shit he made her see as "her" destiny and the destiny of her friends including Apples if she doesn't follow through (which was really bad) and she eventually found out shit wasn't adding up and head master Grim was making it up , before when she did saw that alternative reality she was more than willing to sign the book to prevent the future she saw from head master Grim. so to say that Raven would risk Appel's life is just plain wrong
@@justhello4096 I think she did originally believe that. Because everyone believed it. Also, apple and the headmaster weren’t entirely wrong.. In EAH canon, when people don’t follow their destinies, it kills the fairies. Choosing your own destiny DOES actually make some people go “poof” Raven and apple are very similar in that they’re both kinda selfish when it comes to their destinys Would Raven still want to choose her own destiny knowing that a fairy will die? I honestly don’t know. Maybe you’re right and she wouldn’t.
Yeah like she’s awful and she also like really made Briar upset because she can’t think of anyone but herself. Like yeah no shit she’s upset she spends her entire time at high school partying cause “if I’m gonna sleep for 100 years I gotta live it up now”. How do you not realize that she is terrified of her destiny like she’s gonna fall asleep and all of her friends are gonna be dead when she wakes up.
Exactly and Apple's only response to Briar expressing her fears of going through with it, is essentially telling her to get over it by saying "we all have our part to play."
@Frog_Artist_Fr like it was so easy for Apple exactly because she sleeps through all the traumatic events and wakes up already in her Happily Ever After. Briar's destiny is essentially the same but the difference is that by the time she wakes up, it's not as happy because her parents, her family, her friends would all be gone and she'll be stuck in a new world with a stranger for a Happily ever after that isnt really "Happy"
Yeah Apple has it easy relatively easy compared to the others. One example is Ashlynn who best case scenario her parents get a divorce worst case scenario her mother dies. After that her father remarries and because he’s out of the picture for whatever reason she’s essentially turned into a slave. Another is Duchess, and while she might come off as a bitch if you know her story then you can understand why she would want to take someone else story. Because unfortunately for her she doesn’t get a happy ending, she’s fated to die in her story.
Apple's a flawed character!!!!!! She was born to be the literal queen of like everyone, she was promised security for her entire life as long as she was just perfect. Like obviously rooting for your friend's downfall is not great and she isn't great she IS selfish and she IS also under a lot of pressure, and to her knowledge Raven is playing with people's lives, she's being told that if Raven isn't a horrible person they will all die, she doesn't want anyone to die she's flawed, she grows (not as much as she should've but whatever)
The episode that made Apple the biggest hypocrite is the magic mirror one. The one where Raven accidentally curses her magic mirror and Apple has her make it up to her. Something that she shouldn't want since she wants Raven to be evil
Bro I have been saying this forever. I don’t care she fell down a well. I don’t care she under a lot of pressure. I rather Raven take a chance at pure happiness and love then going through a life of misery just for Apple. It’s literally all about Apple in Snow White if that’s how the story went. Raven would be banished for doing what she was supposed to do and Apple becomes queen. How is that being kind? How is that caring for someone you love? I get not wanting to go poof, but if people of our time didn’t take their chances for freedom just to stick to the status quo a lot of us wouldn’t be here today. Raven as a character means so much to me. I love her so much. She was in self preservation mode and that’s fair if you see that’s your destiny. It’s what most of us would do. For me and Raven I rather take a chance and go poof than live a life of misery all because I was doing what my story told me to do. Because even if Raven did her part…SHE STILL GETS A CRAPPY LIFE! Same with freaking Brair! She sleeps for 100 years. Most of the people she loves and knows will be dead. She won’t even know her prince at all. All Apple has to say was, “We all have our part to play.” Like heck no I don’t want to be alone and know no one and when I wake up I have to try all over again like what? I get people who love Apple but I don’t get the hype. I see no kindness with wishing your friend the worst for your betterment.
Ikr, everyone who says Raven is selfish don’t make sense. If I were her, I would also rather go poof than become the worst version of myself all for some princess getting her “happily ever after”
@Echoingsunflowers981 Well, yeah, Raven gets ZERO freedom in her story, and in the books, it's even WORSE. Her mother, Headmaster Grimm, and Apple constantly remind her of her destiny. Ravens relationship with her father and her mother is complicated because her father is good (The Good King), and her mother isn't the show honestly missed an opportunity to contrast Ravens home life with Apple's homelife. Ravens' father isn't even MENTIONED in the show!!!
The thing is it was confirmed in the books that it wouldn't just be her own life that raven was messing with, but everyone connected to snow white. They were told if one character stepped out of line, everyone in the story would go poof. The entire story would cease to exist. It's one thing if it's only her life she's betting on, but this is the life of a lot of people. Not just raven and apple, but the huntsman, the seven dwarves, apples prince. And whose to say if it'd stop at just that one failed iteration. We as the audience know that it won't happen, but apple doesn't.
@tatiana2696 I don't think this analysis is shallow. However, I agree it does blame Apple for being a victim of falling down as well as a child. Anyone who enjoyed anxiety from Inside Out 2 should be able to enjoy Apple's character for what she represents.
I say it all the time: the show advertised itself as more nuanced as it was. The Royals were often written as problematic and unlikeable so you wouldn't feel bad for a guarenteed future being taken away from them.
I think my biggest problem with Apple is that she never learns. And if she does it’s completely irrelevant after that special. The only time I can truly remember her actually canonically being aware of the situations she caused is after Dragon games; when she and Daring are confronted by the fact that they aren’t meant to be. Also technically didn’t Apple literally get what she wanted the evil queen poisoned her and her knight in shining armor saved her with a kiss? Isn’t that it? So it didn’t have to be Raven! If she’d grown from special to special and actually got to keep the character development they gave her I think she wouldn’t come off so crappy!
It helps that Raven does actually spend more time with her other friends in the books. She and Apple are friends in the books, but not BEST friends. Like Raven's besties in the books are Cerise, Cedar, and Maddie, who ALL get much more focus as characters and their relationships with Raven. Likewise, Apple's besties are Ashlynn and Briar!
Ever after high was the perfect display of breaking generational trauma. The whole point was for the royals and rebels to become the next version of their parents. Despite making friends or even more than that with their “evil” counterparts. Raven was all for breaking that generational curse because she never wanted to become her mother. She didn’t want to suffer the same fate as her mother. She also didn’t want the other rebels to suffer the same horrible fates. However Apple did. Apple wanted to continue it because in the end it would always benefit her just like it would the other royals. Raven and Apple had reverse stories from their parents. The Evil Queen wanted to see Snow White fall. Apple wants to see Raven fall.
It’s the same as those older generations IRL going “Everyone should suffer like I did”, and I’ve always thought it had horrifying implications in EAH’s context. (For example, the ball and prince are Cinderella’s escape from her abusive family, so what’s gonna happen to Ashlyn to make a comparable story?)
There's also the fact that Apple literally does not care that the evil queen changed raven's destiny. She's not just supposed to be the evil queen anymore, she's supposed to do everything her mom did, everything that made her the most hated villain of ever after, everything that got her sent straight to mirror prison. But apple doesn't care because she wants her happily ever after and does not want to make a new happily ever after that includes raven and all her friends.
Tbh I think that Apple is the most “relatable” character she has many flaws and I think that might be the reason the fandom doesn’t like her but there is a reason why she was made that way it’s to ad a contract to the perfect desteny that she has. But if you look into Apples character throughly it’s shown in the show that Apple does not like her destiny she also doesn’t like other’s destiny’s but she is to affraid to do anything about it she tries to save everyone from literally dying because she thinks that’s her role she thinks that it’s her job to keep everything in balance. So if we’re going to hate anyone it should definitely be Snow White AKA Aples mother because she molded Apple in to the shape of a queen and a protector she made Apple like this. I definitely think that Apple had a lot of character development and that she is the “realest” character because she puts herself first just like we all do. No she doesn’t want for Raven to be the worst version of herself but she also doesn’t want to ruin her own life for sake of others. That’s why neither of them are in the right nor wrong and BOTH Raven and Apple are selfish
Honestly that make more sense in the books but the evil queen does relate to Apple more in temperament but honestly Snow White isn’t all that great either. Constantly checking her daughter’s popularity and criticizing even the smallest dip. She like mommy blogger or a family blogger.
What about Snow White and Headmaster Grimm? I’m not a huge Apple stan and I won’t deny that she did a lot of her friends dirty but the adults were literally pushing her into acting that way.
13 yo me used to rant about this... She claimed she didn't want everyone to go "poof" even though the only thing we ever heard her say was "I WON'T GET MY HAPPILY EVER AFTER!" Apple evil can't change my mind
@@Sleepyhead618 All 3 by Shannon Hale, the first book in the series is The Storybook of Legends: by Shannon Hale, the second book is The Unfairest of All: Shannon Hale the 3rd book is A Wonderlandiful World: Shannon Hale All three of these books are amazing for the characters personalities!
@pastelcatnip I agree, she is! However, Snow White being a bad person was a change they made for the show, Apple's mom is actually nice in the books! Ravens' mom is the one who is pressuring her daughter to be exactly like her. However, I love Apple flaws and all, even if I believe book Apple is superior. In some ways they made Apple seem shallow in the show.
I like apple not in spite of her flaws but BECAUSE of them. I always thought she was a good example of how the story book system messed with people's heads, and I appreciate her for always at least trying her best in spite of it. I wish she got a cleaner redemption arc before the show ended but she had enough for me to fill in the gaps and i love her for what she is.
I think it’s really about the world that they live in. Her environment has caused her to think in a certain way and act in accordance to that. Before we put all the blame on her, we need to address the flaws of the world and how it might affected her to understand why she acted in this way.
I’m sad that the episodes didn’t include her backstory because she does have a bit of an explanation for her behavior in the books. When Apple was 5 years old, she fell into a well and nearly drowned. She was stuck in there for several hours, calling for help and scratching at the slick walls. Having been told her entire life that her story was set out for her, this traumatic experience hammered that in and she thinks that she never wants herself or anyone she cares about to feel the fear and panic of not knowing what’s going to happen to you ever again. This is what scares her so much about Raven’s ideology, if her story is taken away she has no guarantee that she won’t end up right back in that well.
Ok but I feel like a lot of the way she acts is pressure from her mother to be this perfect girl and that if Raven didn't do as she "needed" to Apple would be a dissapointment to her mother. She's not a bad person, she's one in a complicated situation, who eventually comes around to what's right.
No she isn’t lmfao. She’s naive, and a control-freak, but she isn’t mean spirited. She does genuinely want the best for her friends, even though she doesn’t often understand why they want to choose their own destiny. Don’t forget, Raven was willing to sacrifice apple’s life to pick her own destiny. Raven was honestly more selfish/dangerous than apple. Apples just annoying, she isn’t mean
@/Milkythefawn no Appel is the selfish one, Raven just wanted to be free. Her fairytale didn't end cause raven's didn't end seeing that nothing happened, if she knows her book like the back of her hand that she knows how Raven ends
Ok but you have to understand Apple thought that if Raven does not follow her legacy she will go poof, disappear out of existence. Also in the books it's explained more that the reason Apple is so into following in destiny is because as a kid she once disobeyed to not play in a well and when she did she fell down and almost drowned. I'm not excusing her actions but from her perspective if Raven doesn't sign then she will go into oblivion, also it's her character arc. If she wasn't flawed then how would she grow? As a kid I used to hate her but as I grew I saw the nuance in the series. They're both not in the right but also in the right, Raven wants to find her own happily ever after but by doing that she takes away Apple's happily ever after, and Apple in wanting her happily ever after and having Raven not go poof she doesn't realize she's taking Raven's own happiness.
Yall cant tolerate characters who are written with flaws/preparing an arc for them and it SHOWS. the "selfish" moment was clearly shown with her in the wrong. She is supposed to be under false beliefs and expecting unfair things. If the show didnt get cancelled, she'd realize it as she was already starting to. IT WAS SETTING UP FOR CHARACTER GROWTH!! Plus she knew her whole life she would have massive trauma and the only way she could cope with that was focusing on her "happy ending'". Her world just SHATTERED. yes that's selfish but shes literally a child
The worst thing is that the apple is a clueless girl she did harm to the raven and others, the girl of the black swan (I forgot the name) in a presentation they would make about their stories she obviously would do a ballet after all IS THE LAKE OF THE SWANS! But the sweet princess stole her idea! ( read about it in a book about the swan) Man Apple is just so insufferable she does a lot of selfish things but rarely Baer the consequences
Duchess is the Daughter of Odette/Swan Princess/Current Swan Queen not the Black Swan Odile,I know it's Pretty Confusing Cause Her Swan Form Has Black Feathers instead of White But She's Not Odile's Daughter.
@@shamiyahzow8525 thank you for explaining that detail is very confusing, she is always doing bad things and is portrayed as a egotistical person so I was wondering if she was the black swan or not
@@pudimchibisama168 She Does Bad things Cause the Swan Lake Story Ending is Actually Quite Tragic as After the Prince Fails to Break the Curse and Being Tricked into Falling for the Wrong Girl Duchess would be Cursed to Stay a Swan Forever and Not wanting to Live Like that Duchess and Her Prince(Out of Guilt..) Drown themselves to death which is a Extremly Unfortunate ending and Cause of that Duchess Tries to Steal Happily ever after's from the Princesses She Feels Don't Deserve it.
LITERALLY. Even after the whole book of legends thing was confirmed to be bullshit Apple STILL tried to sabotage Raven every chance she got purely to live out her happily every after THAT SHE WOULD’VE GOTTEN REGARDLESS. She had zero reason or excuse to be that big a bitch
@@margeryojije7862 i think its because unlike Apple, Chloe doesn't feel quite as fake. Like- you KNOW what you're gonna get with Chloe, with Apple, it feels more like a mask of kindness to hide how selfish her intentions are imo
Ashlynn also broke up with Hunter purely because Apple said she didn't like them together. Like GIRL- it'd be one thing if Hunter is an ass, but he genuinely cares about Ashlynn and treats her so well
She called Raven Selfish for not wanting to follow a Destiny where everyone would hate her for doing what she was told. So yeah. It's pretty bad of her
Raven WAS selfish tbh. Remember, everyone thought that it would make people disappear if they didn’t sign it. Raven chose not to sign the book, knowing that apple could die. Raven literally carelessly threw other people’s LIVES on the line
@@MilkythefawnSo did Apple. Part of Raven's destiny WOULD be to kill people. Even when there's evidence to the contrary, Apple _chooses_ to deny _OTHERS_ their rights to autonomy. At that point, her own being equally endangered is just fair play. Raven tries to find ways around it for everyone. Apple would rather force her beliefs on other people than let them try to have ANY other kind of fate.
@alchemysaga3745 This! This is what people don't get about Raven. She WILL try to find a way to make everyone happy! Apple is scared and desperate, but because of this, she's willing to accept other people who will have to play a role they don't want for her needs. Just because it's understandable doesn't mean it's not selfish. Raven, in the throne coming, WAS going to sign the storybook of Legends until she found out it wasn't the REAL one!
Yeah I can agree with that but I also see the other side of the story Apple just wants to protect her friends and yes she does see Raven as a friend but she also just wants to protect her too even though their story is cruel she doesn't know what will happen when they go poop and that is a scary thought for all of them so even though it might be cruel she just wants to protect them I agree that's no way to protect somebody but still cuz in reality they have no idea what's going to happen when if Raven does not complete the story book and I do agree Raven's story is pretty messed up❤❤
"she has done nothing to deserve the luxury" theres a whole episode dedicated to how shes constantly helping others and she literally says herself that she wishes ppl saw her beauty not just on the outside but on the inside too
But she literally sabotaged Raven’s life so she could get her happily ever after while Raven gets imprisoned? That’s not being selfless and just shows her true colors. Ntm all the times she’s disregarded Raven’s feelings and personality trying to turn her into something she’s not. If you ask me she’s pretty damn ugly inside too.
@@selfwai I was referring to how Raven wasn’t going to sign the book, even though she was warned that her and apple’s story would 'poof', and she was going to do it anyways, which a lot of apple haters seem to just disregard
And on the switched at birth theory, much like the original Snow White Raven was raised by the evil queen and her kindly father. Which also technically makes her Apple’s aunt but that’s messy.
Raven's whole thing was literally "I don't want to hurt you" Apple wants to be like their parents, because she's scared of what will happen to everyone if they don't follow their stories. Raven doesn't want to be like their parents because she's scared of what will happen to the people she loves if they do.
OK I understand that and I really feel like they need like ever after high needs some more series like some more chapters. Just to see like the girls. Raven and the others like how their future's gonna be.
And this is why I wish ever after high finished cause then we could fully see how her character arch would have been. Although as you said their isn’t anything to make up for what she’s done or her mentality
What? Raven chose not to follow her destiny, knowing it could kill apple. She literally played around with ppls lives, because she wanted to change her destiny. Raven is just as bad and selfish as apple
The thing that always has confused me is that in the royal high version the evil queen is more powerful than maleficent but in the Disney version its the opposite 😅😊😂❤
The thing is that they are raised to litterly turn into there parents Apple is the one who takes it to the extreem verses raven dosnt even want to do it If you look at all the other chariters they know how they are ment to be and they want to live there lives before then
Also I believe the headmaster had told them they would cease to exist if there story didn't go as planned so apple would be understandable because she may have been worried about not wanting to die
Ok but one though allot of people hate apple I am her biggest defender, cause one, I can understand why people hate her, I get it, she’s selfish, narcissistic, arrogant, and overall appears to care not for the well being of others but honestly I think not only is her design really pretty but she’s also very well written and in a sense relatable to me. And honestly I feel like people should see it from both sides, like in apples part imagine if someone said that all your dreams would come true if you just sign a paper, I’m pretty sure all of us would be like Apple if we believed that to be true, not to mention how this girl had practically the whole world looking at her to become queen and it was her soul ambition to do so only for Raven to back out of her destiny. So I perfectly understand why Apple does the things she does, if I was told that all I had to do was get poisoned and I’d wake up king and mad wealthy I’d be doing the same shit to try and make that happen, not to mention her mothers helicopter parenting.((btw helicopter parenting is a form of parenting to where you plan out the entire life of your child to the point where they don’t know how to make decisions on their own)) and back to her driving ambition to become queen of her destiny I honestly think it was cool to see how far she would go in order to get her destiny in dragon games and she had major character development by realizing the flaws in her mindset afterwards. To summarize, both Raven and Apple are selfish depending on how you look at it, and I hate how people boil down Apple to being a narcissistic princess when both of them have flaws.
I say this every time. I hated apple even as a kid. I had a raven doll and refused to play with my sisters apple doll. We changed her hair and made her a new character because we disliked her so much
I knew I hated Apple when Raven entered their dorm for the first time and we found out Apple requested to share a room with Raven without asking what Raven wants, and then if that wasn’t enough she decorated Ravens side FOR her without considering her feelings, and then she said that she wanted to share a room because Raven was important to HER story as though Apple was the only important person in story and the only one affected. Like she’s so narcissistic and she’s convinced herself that she’s actually a good person and she only cared about the whole destiny thing for everyone else’s sake when she shown time and time again that she only cares about herself. This was kinda a rant but like I hate her so much
Raven was selfish too tho. They were told that if they went against their story, everyone in that story would disappear. Although that was a lie and didn’t happen, Raven didn’t know it wasn’t true and literally risked the lives of everyone in her fairytale. Apple just wants to keep everyone safe from that. They’re both selfish in their own ways, it’s not a black and white story
Although Apple was born into Privilege, she doesn’t take it for granted. She is still kind to most and works really hard to become the queen she is destined to be. Although she deffo has flaws, Raven is just as selfish by risking others’ happiness just for her own sake and potentially risking others’ lives. As Darling Dollz says, they’re both Selfless and Selfish in their own ways. This is a very nuanced story and there is no clean cut villain or hero, hence the beauty of the story
@@obehiikhigbonoaremen1241 yeah very true! If anyone is the villain it’s him. Or can we entirely blame him as he has trauma with losing his brother and not sticking to plan, hence why he wants everyone else to stick to their story? It’s complicated😂
I honestly genuinely love the writing of Apple and Raven. All the time I’ll see the trope of “‘evil’ person everyone hates is actually really kind and good, while perfect person everyone loves is actually evil”. But most of the time the perfect secretly evil person is just mindless evil and boring. But Apple genuinely thinks she’s a good person, she’s been taught all her life to think a certain way and Raven, her future rival suddenly changed all that. Of course she’d try to cling to the notion of her being good and Raven being evil because it’s all she knows. Remember Raven was one of the firsts to want to write their own story so this is a relatively new thing especially to Apple and her traditionalist mother. I’m not defending Apple but I’m saying she’s one of the few examples of her character trope being done right and I love it
In the original book they show that part of this comes from PTSD due to her 'deviating from the path' and almost drowning as a child so she sticks to 'the path' partly out of fear. You're STILL right tho!!
Anytime people defend her, I bring up the Valentines special where she and Ashlyn start talking and Apple says “this is hard for ME, which is saying a lot because I normally take things very well” like GIRL you threw a WHOLE TANTRUM on Legacy Day and caused half the school to overwhelm Raven into freezing everybody’s bodies. And why you making Ashlyn and Hunter’s struggle about you? How is it hard for you? Your legacy ain’t on the line, Ashlyn’s is! What could you possibly gain or lose for their relationship? And need I remind y’all Apple defenders, GIRL STILL DIDNT LEARN HER LESSON AFTER WONDERLAND!!! She KNEW the Book was bad news when Courtly tried to STEAL Lizzie and Raven’s destinies! And yet she STILL had the nerve to try to convince Raven to forgive her mother despite knowing the Evil Queen must have ulterior motives. Like, she’s an A+ student but is too naive to think “hm, the greatest villain in all of fantasy just wants to be with her daughter, not take over the world or anything”. Like, NO, she knew the Evil Queen was bad news! But in order to not get in trouble, she basically hid the fact she freed her and tried to cover it up, which only led to the Evil Queen and her mother duking it out in Dragon Games and hence the whole arc happening! Apple is selfish, spoiled, and not a character I enjoy watching. She annoys the crap out of me, but I think that’s the point. I think she’s meant to be a bad character so this way people develop empathic connection to Raven
Not only that, Apple didn't put Briar Beauty's feelings into consideration either. If Briar signed her name in the book, she would be under a sleeping curse for a century, she wouldn't be able to grow old with her friends and so on.
I never really liked apple because of the fact she always thought raven was selfish because she wanted to make her own happily ever after but honesty i think its okay for raven to want that, if she doesnt want to be forced to go through a destiny she doesnt want then she shoulfnt have to, its her story to write but i can kind of get apples point a bit
YEEEEEESSSSSS That's why EAH is so good. It's so complicated. Apple is Snow White's daughter, who was such a sweet kind girl, and Apple too is very much sweet and kind, but just like you said she wants the worst for her friend to gain luxury for herself? ALSO SHE WAS THE ONE WHO LET OUT THE EVIL QUEEN!!! The roles are reversed, and i absolutely love it. It doesn't play by the status quo, and that's what i love about EAH.
And it wasn't even just Raven she picked on like this.. Briar and Ashlyn definitely did too. Briar for the book and also not wanting to sign and Ashlyn for loving somebody that she apparently wasn't supposed to
There was nothing I wanted to see more than the students finally catching up on her hypocrisy and and calling her out on it. That would be one of the most satysfying things for me, because no matter what argument Raven had for her and how resonable she was being, Apple would just throw "You're selfish" and then everybody would just agree?? I NEED them to wake up and call her out!
I feel like how this story is told opens and models this exact discussion. I believe Raven is objectively in the right, she should get an opportunity to choose what kind of person she is. However, easily half if not more of the other stories, including Apple's, will not happen if Raven doesn't follow her story. Apple understands this, and whatever lore ends up saying late in the series, the pilot made it clear Apple likes and wants the ending her story promises, she thinks the current system benefits her (I don't think it really does because of what a Snow White goes through in the middle of the story, but she either has rose colored glasses or an optimistic outlook about that), so Raven's decision is a threat to Apple, who seems to have built her identity around her story. I think Apple wants to be the pure and virtuous princess her story requires, and that reflects in how she interacts with Raven, but ultimately she's unwilling to consider a different future for herself (maybe she's scared of having to figure out her own future instead of having it sketched out specifically) so that also reflects in how she interacts with Raven.
Apple was also raised into that mindset. Her mom had raised her into thinking that if things changed, the world that she knew and the stories would disappear. She is kind of like that Narcissistic friend that cares about you, but cares about her and her reputation more.
Honestly? I am all in into not liking Apple White, ive never liked characters their flavor, all so perfect and dandy and happy going around AND thinking they know everyone like the palm of their hands: I can say shes kinda dense and, honestly? Very very stupid, she thinks everyone really in their hearts Is like her, they all wanna go like little lambs to follow their stories, AND i believe she thinks she Is actually geniuenly think that everytime she pushes Raven into evilness and Stuff, she Is actually helping her "achieve her destiny!, which Is good cause thats the REAL you!" Like, what the hell? Raven Is a nice person, sweet, willing to help AND does not condone or support any kind of bad deeds, she even Is willing to go on with signing the book of stories the day of legacy, cause she geniuenly thinks everything Is GONNA mess up AND turn bad cause of her, SHE WAS WILLING TO SACRIFICE HER OWN LIFE FOR EVERYONE ELSES!, ejem, anyway, what i mean, I dont like Apple, I dont like anything she has done, AND i loved the day she finally realised she was not the Center of the universo AND actually allies with the Evil Queen cause deep down she Is jealous of how mucho everyone loves Raven Now that they understand her!
I get why people would hate Apple but at the same time I think Apple feels like you HAVE to follow your destiny. She probably feels that without Raven she won’t actually have a story nor a happy ending as she always states in the show that she “needs” Raven. And the Headmaster Grimm did say that if you didn’t follow your destiny you would cease to exist so there’s that too.
I wish they wouldn’t have canceled this masterpiece show for Disneys descendants, because right when they stoped it, it got so good. We were on a good way to redeem Apple and actually have the characters stand up for themselves and their wish to have an own story
