Great info Dave. My apologies to all Tesla owners for pasting an item that claimed Tesla cars had more accidents than other brands. Remarkably I only got one objection. Then recently Sam Evans In Viking Style debunked the article by tracing the funding back to the Oil Lobby. Who would have guessed?
I charge at home on a cheap overnight tariff and only use public chargers on the rare occasions when I travel further than my fully charged range. On those occasions I don't really care about the price,convenience is more important.
And this is why we have insane fast charging prices. People doesn't seem to care what it cost. If this keeps happening the price per distance driven for EVs will probably end up being on par with fossils. Good luck getting more people to buy EVs at that point. A lot of people have no access to home charging.
@@Gazer75 I treat public rapid charging similarly to motorway service petrol prices, you only use them if absolutely necessary. In terms of £/mile anything over 65p kWh already exceeds the cost of running my ice car. What is needed are far more destination chargers at sensible prices, these low power chargers are much cheaper to install. We need to get away from the petrol station idea, and slow charge when the car isn’t being used, at work/home/cinema etc. that way we are not waiting hours for a charge and the rapid chargers are available for those travelling distances.
@@garyhill9723Yep excerpt they also want the same price now for slow chargers. I think it's Osprey(?) who say that if there's AC and DC available then you pay the high power DC price anyway. I can sort of understand that as it stops someone camping on the AC port all day and blocking the DC but then make that a condition (some magical way) such that a long AC cable can reach while leaving the DC bay clear.
Market forces will ultimately bring prices down for EV charging. Right now they are trying to recoup as much of the initial investment quickly whilst they can, as soon as more EV charging sites open up pricing will creep down.
I only wish we had a government that was a lot more proactive. They should, as a condition of funding the installation of the chargers, legislate a 50p cap on the cost of charging. Anything more is a rip off.
Hi Dave. Was watching a video about Germany ending its hand-out for EV buyers and the comments made about the electric dream ending, is amazing and very sad. They sure haven''t watched yours and other videos about not burning stuff. Best Dave
Kind of understandable with the Germans. As most of what they say is driven by the largest German Company..... VW. Who have made a total arse of their models, their software and their battery / chemistry management. Add in the high prices of the models and you will have the Electric Dream Dying.... or to be exact.... VW's Electric Dream is Dying. BMW apparently are happy enough with their dreams and Mercedes are trying to improve.
Yes, but two problems Steven, first higher prices allows more investment in new superchargers and second making the existing non-Tesla charging infrastructure any worse is in nobody's interest.
Hi Dave, Really enjoyed your explanation on prices. One thing I would like to check is the Tesla prices you quote. Are you using the Tesla owner ? I've just looked as a non Tesla owner for Trafford center. Peak 73p, off peak 55p and super off peak 39p. Your point about the price disparity is still valid, but as a non Tesla member not as large.
Agreed, so charge off peak as a non member, that's cheap. Why pick the dearest possible rate? Or if you charge there regularly why aren't you a member? It's a no brainer!
Sorry Dave, I disagree with that. Save yourself money charge off-peak at Tesla superchargers. What you’re saying is that I am now going to have to leave my house at 11 o’clock at night to charge my car that’s not practical so can you please quote what the majority of people would use when they’re using public charges that would be peak rate
Hi Dave, a great back summary and very interesting. Already, the non Tesla, Tesla Chargers have pulled me away from these other companies. I can pretty much go anywhere in the UK using open Tesla chargers and a few Ionity chargers (using the ElectroVerse card which is free, a offers Ionity at 64p/KWhr) so I think these other companies will be soon be forced to drop their prices back into the £0.60s range or face losing custom. Fascinating times!
Hi Dave. Great information for EVdrivers living in the Midlands and North. I live in Kent so it would be great if you could do a survey of charging in and around the zsouth East. Keep it up
At peak times the cost of Tesla purchasing electricity is higher so the rates also reflect that. What should be a concern about AppleGreen is did incentives cover the cost of installation and once those funds are no longer available will the maintenance of the system fall apart as has happened to non Tesla chargers worldwide?
Good video. Am I missing something? i always believed Tesla chargers have a higher price for non Teslas? Also no matter what the price, drivers top priority is an available charger, so will pay the higher price in order to get on their way and avoid the 2 hour time penalty in most services instead of queuing for a cheaper charge?
You are right, I believe Dave was quoting Tesla owner prices here, but the member (i.e. subscriber) & non member prices are still cheaper than other networks. Not by as much, but still enough to make it worthwhile making that short detour off the motorway unless you're mission critical and can't spare the 5 minutes extra travel time. Think about people who drive miles past the Shell/BP stations to go to ASDA/Tesco to save a few pence on Dino juice.
It is not true that non-Tesla networks are always dearer than peaktime Tesla non-Tesla owner prices you can charge up for 65p at IONITY if you get there octopus Electroverse card which is free. The £.65 is a standard price 24 hours a day. It is true that the non-Tesla prices vary throughout the day, but if you’re driving in peak times. The IONITY discount applies throughout the country recently used it on a trip to Edinburgh stopping at Carlisle on the way up and Gretna Green on the way back.
Hi Dave, I can't see Tesla opening up many of the motorway service superchargers to everyone. One of their key selling points is access to the s/c network especially for doing distance. If you bought your model3 for that reason (a few of my friends have said they did) they'll be pretty pissed if they can't get to "their" chargers because Doris in her e2008 is using it. They'll be even more incensed at paying normal people price to use the Gridserve/Applegreen/Ionity etc. Without exclusive use of the supercharger network, one of the biggest selling point. Tesla will be selling the Mod3/Y purely on the car itself. And after driving the BYD Seal.... I (and others) will go for something else
Yes and no, Bert. Rugby is an example where the original 12 Tesla only chargers couldn't cope so they added 16 more. Now they are still Tesla only and I have never seen them anywhere near full. If they add enough chargers so there are no queues, then I am happy to allow non-Teslas to use them, or to open certain sections, say 12 out of 28 specifically for either Teslas or non-Teslas. Nobody should ever buy an EV for one specific reason, charging is just one factor. A relative bought an MG4, but only ever does one long journey a year, so public charging is right at the bottom of his list. If you prefer a BYD then buy one, but accept you might have a worse charging experience and do not then blame or moan about Tesla for not opening enough chargers for you.
Dave I'm a fan of your videos but I've got to point out an error on this one. Blackstone are a Private Equity firm spun out of their more famous parent, Blackrock. Blackrock isn't an investment bank but an Asset Manager meaning they invest (mainly) client money via Blackrock funds in companies and other financial assets such as bonds, commodities etc. The total of these client monies is about $8.6 trillion so they are huge. I'm assuming here that Blackstone, the private equity firm, are a private investor in Applegreen Electric. Keep up the good work Dave.
Gridserve have now opened the Gatwick hub. I've not been there, yet. For me, it's too close to use unless I cut it a bit fine travelling home but Pease Pottage is just as convenient. I'll have to pay a visit, though.
Tesla are my second choice for charging but I've noticed locally their prices have increased. I wish you are correct in your 2024 predictions but sadly I don't share your view that Tesla prices will force down rapid charging costs for all. Uxbridge Tesla which is the nearest to me is now charging 67p peak for non Tesla and that is most of the day 0900-2000. I expect Tesla prices to creep steadily upwards for non Tesla drivers in 2024. BTW I lost count of the number of times you mentioned Tesla, it was about 40 at the 13 minute mark in the video. I hope Tesla are giving you a nice wedge for the advertising. For that matter I hope they give me some too as I mentioned them 8 times in this comment🤔
I find that the majority of my journies only require home charging at 7.5pence per kWh. Over the past 30 months I have charged away from home about 20 times, just to top up enough to get me to home or to a cheaper charger. Obviously when electricity prices went up charging prices doubled. I see that in the future with Tesla opening up more charging hubs, the number of other companies now installing good numbers of rapid chargers at locations, they are "making hay when the sun doth shine" and getting extra money as the day will be soon here when competition will start to set the market values. Also, the more use the chargers get, the more profitable they are, so again, price can be reduced. I must admit that currently my EV needs about 45 minutes to put me back to 80% after doing 200 miles, so I prefer to stop where there are facilities with food and drink.
I stopped at Rugby this week. Had to wait 20 minutes for the Gridserv charger. Only needed 20% of charge to get me home. Most of the Tesla chager were empty.
Following your helpful video... For Non-Tesla owners.... We have downloaded the Tesla App and opened a Tesla Account. Now when travelling the UK our 200 mile Citroën can easily reach any non-Tesla ... "Tesla" chargers. Why pay TWICE THE PRICE for electricity.
Sorry, I have to make a comment regarding the pricing of the Applegreen and Tesla. You kept mentioning Tesla was 35p it’s not Tesla at peak time can be as expensive as any other charger the other day at the Trafford Centre. It was 74p for none Tesla drivers. Yes Tesla is cheap for Tesla drivers and has an off-peak rate put in the prime peak time it is as expensive as everybody else.
sorry, Robert, but not for me, I always charge off peak and pay 35-40p, never any more. I've never charged at peak time all year, but even then, for me, a Tesla owner, it would never be more than 60p at current prices. I chose a Tesla largely because they have the best most reliable and cheapest charging infrastructure in the world. Don't blame me or Tesla, blame the numpties who chose not to "waste money" on EV charging for your car. But help may be at hand, they are finally getting together and building their own network, at least they say they are, having just put almost all EVs on hold while they concentrate on ICE.
Hi Dave. Sorry I need to disagree with you once again because you’re not comparing apples with apples. You are a Tesla owner who get a discount for charging at Tesla chargers. As a non-Tesla owner I receive no such discount. Tesla chargers charge peak and off-peak rates. Most people would use surcharges at peak times. That’s why it’s called peak rate. As of today, the peak rate at the Trafford Centre which is the nearest supercharger to me for non-Tesla drivers was charging 72p per kilowatt. When you compare charges at motorway services, you must be transparent and compare like for like. If I drive on the motorway and pull up at the services I want to charge my car as convenient as possible. Most times that will be in peak times if the Applegreen charger is five or 6p dearer than the peak rate non-Tesla price I will pull into the most available free space. I do agree if I was charging off-peak Tesla by far is the cheapest, but this is more about convenience than price. As you state in your video. Applegreen is backed by $1 trillion company who clearly have established that most people on motorway services just want convenience and are not driving in off-peak times.
Interesting Dave, thank you. For info, I just drive to Perth in Scotland from Clun in Shropshire. It’s Saturday 30th Dec, so was worried about charger availability (Tesla 3LR) by 12pm, all Tesla chargers M6 North were fully occupied, Charnock Richard was showing a 5 min wait, I had enough to get to Gretna, but thought I would hedge as Gretna only has 4 chargers. Just as well. Shortly after, Gretna and tebay were at 25 minute wait. All of the apple green chargers were unoccupied when I arrived, 3 cars when I left. Anyway, stopped again at Abingdon (Scotland) for a pee break and quick charge before arriving in Perth with 23% charnock tesla was 43p off peak, Abingdon 44p, rising to 55p off peak. Don’t think thy flex the price up for busy weekends?
Hopefully tesla won’t undercut other charging networks too much as the goal here is to encourage other companies to provide fast / reliable chargers, not put them out of business. Tesla can’t provide enough chargers for all the EVs so have to work with them. Secondly, how many of those charging at peak hours can charge at off peak hours? it would be an interesting stat to collect.
Hi Dave. Gary from Preston here. Enjoy your channel Yesterday I was informed that my new 2024 model 3 will be ready for collection between 22 Jan and 6 Feb. Do you know of anyone with an earlier date?
I only use these sort of chargers when travelling. Only got an e2008 so plan a journey and my stops! Not used the Trafford centre as can use a granny cable at my daughters in Urmston.
13:08 hou keep saying "no one is going to use this" but at peek time won't all the tesla stalls be full? some people will be forced into using the more costly ones?
I have not charged even once at peak times this year, nor have I queued and I have charged hundreds of times. Maybe a bit more planning and a lot less complaining?
@@davetakesiton true, but you can charge at home? As the number of EVs on the road goes up more and more of them owned by people why can charge at home. On that point, have you done a video on lamppo itst charging? Or charge bridge OR the pave cross system?
Hi Dave, Great episode as the EV community needs to know what’s difficult to keep up with the changes in charging infrastructure. Thank you. Are you considering an episode on home charging? Over the Summer a 3-4kW Solar system can easily run a medium house AND trickle charge an EV from Solar divert = Virtually Free. Based on 3.9m/kWh (and Octopus’s EV Intelligent Go Tariff) at 7.5p / kWh = 2p (approx) per mile. Whether you have solar or not, home charging for 99% of EV use is way cheaper than anything else. There’s no queue either. Just plug it in, like your phone and the EV is ready for use in the morning. From my own personal perspective and use, Public charging is simply for convenience when there’s an ‘emergency’ or a long journey. Thank you again.
Yes that's true but on the flip side, I don't expect to have to visit a public charger until May when we drive to Italy. How many times will an ICE car need to suffer the inconvenience of having to go somewhere to stand in the cold and wind between now and May and how much time is that actually going to add up to? EV ownership is far more nuanced that just simple comparisons.
No, Keegan, you don't, but your fossil fuel industry sure does need absolutely massive subsidies and tax breaks, over £30 billion recently, just so you can enjoy cheaper petrol. I welcome the day those stop or, better still, they give that to the EV charging industry.
@@djtaylorutube and what about the thousands of people who don’t have off road parking or a garage, I suppose they don’t matter in your smug, ‘I’m all right’ world.
@@keegan773 I bought what works for me, suggest others do the same. There's no smugness here but if you want to call out something that doesn't work for you, then don't be surprised when someone else to points out how it works for them! As regards people who currently don't have access to off street parking, I'm neither an influencer of public infrastructure, nor a minister or other member of government so can't help there, not my job to solve that one but if you do care to investigate, you'll become aware of initiatives that seek to address that challenge. Apparently though, hydrogen is the future and all the ICE cars just need a small tweak to run on hydrogen. We'll all be running electrolysers in the kitchen and carrying buckets filled with hydrogen out to the car if you want to believe some channels. I also thought that electric cars are too expensive and nobody wants one anyway so not sure why you're complaining? Do you want one or not?
Tesla SuC at my location here in Norway is actually on par with the more expensive ones these days for non Tesla users that don't subscribe. Tesla is 5.75/6.30 NOK/kWh. There are two other operators below that at 4.50 and 4.99 in the area. There are a couple of others charging 5.88 or more as well. Even on 50kW chargers. I could sub and get the SuC for 4.25 off-peak, but its not worth it when the other CPO 10m away ask 4.50 on a 300kW charger with contactless. I'd have to charge a lot to cover the 129 NOK/month for the Tesla subscription when its only 0.25 NOK/kWh difference.
I was delighted to hear about Tesla opening up some chargers to non-Teslas, but was then horrified to find that my new MGZS EV was blocked from using them because of a safety glitch in the MG software. Fortunately there’s a special update to fix this, and I just had it done with my first year service. Unfortunately this cost me £95 so it will take a lot of Tesla supercharges to make up for the difference between other public charges. I do most of my charging at home, but at least this will give us the confidence to go touring into Europe using Tesla chargers wherever possible. Make route planning so much easier.
Hey Dave. I was at Birchanger Green Services near Stanstead Airport last night and Tesla Superchargers were 12p per kWh! Only 4 chargers at that locale, but blimey, thats cheap!
I was quoting my nearest open Supercharger which is Harrogate. With membership it's 40p off-peak and 46p peak. Without membership 54p off-peak and 62p peak. There are no super off-peak rates at midnight. @@davetakesiton
Not sure if the total picture is of falling investment in the oil & Gas industry in the U.K. Although confusing the U.K. Government appears to be making massive investments in Oil & Gas for example $3.75 Bn in tax breaks for Rosebank development.
I honestly can’t understand why anyone considering buying an electric car doesn’t just choose a Tesla, it makes journeys so much simpler and so much cheaper.
Something about Elon, something about fish, something about a mate down the pub who's an expert on build quality. Something like that! If someone only needs to remain within the range of their vehicle and can charge at home, any vehicle will do. We managed for two years with an original Leaf because that's exactly how we used it. Other cars available for other trips.
Dave, do you have a video about carbon footprint of EV’s over ICE. Particularly Tesla verse Diesel but anything really. I get ICE car owners constantly telling me my foot print in a Tesla will not be offset for a very long time of driving compared and should get off my high horse about being eco friendly (which I’m not overtly anyway). I feel these are old stats to make ICE car drivers feel better. I would like to hit back with realistic information. Thanks.
Im finding that if I charge at a V3 open Tesla supercharger with my none Tesla I’m getting some people not being happy as I have to take up 2 chargers as the leads are long enough and I block one charger off.
I always like to remind people of the relative price war we have at the liquid fuel filling stations! They buy it in at a going rate but discount the price they charge with other marketing etc and very often the supermarkets are cheapest! It will eventuaallly be the same for EV's and we'll have charger wars - trying to get the price down to the cheapest possible!
But Are Tesla allowed to open up there Tesla chargers at sites that are owned by motorway services ? Or are they restricted by the owners of the site. All chargers from 12am should be cheaper just like some home electric supply companies like Octopus do. Bp Pulse purchased by BP was so they don't won't to lose out on revenue when more people move to EVs.
Great stuff as always. Thank you. From my point of view, in the past year of EV ownership I’ve only used a public charger 3 times so for sheer convenience I’d be happy to use an empty charging bay at 75p rather than scratch around queuing at a charging bay at half the price. If I was using public charging every week then it would obviously be a different story
Dave, at the end of the year, expect to see all the Tesla Superchargers blocked by cars with the port on the wrong side, taking two bays, enjoying cheaper rates, while Tesla owners will be either forced to wait or go to the expensive chargers that nobody wants to use.
I've been around the country visiting hundreds of chargers at various times, including peak, and I've not seen that yet and I don't ever expect to. Have you ever seen a supercharger blocked by non-Tesla and the Teslas having to queue up? No is the answer you are looking for. Scare tactics based on fantasy
@@davetakesiton Almost! An EV mini parked in a Supercharger bay and not even charging (separate issue I know) and on the same day an Audi in a spot which it seems he didn't realise was an end bay for a Tesla. Tebay had Tesla's queing again this holiday, you'll see someone posted that pic in the Tesla Owners FB group so that's already a Tesla problem before we add in cars with slow chargers, cars with ports on the wrong side. It *will* happen, there's not enough expansion of Tesla in the UK at the moment. Hopwood park, half the bays open, not sure if that's due to much needed expansion but I heard (didn't see though) that people were queuing there, that won't be improved with everyone benefiting from Tesla pricing. Dave, you do concede that you plan your trips to avoid the likelihood of queues and that makese sense but that's not always an option for everyone. Lets watch with interest but it's anything but fantasy, rather quite likely.
I think that £0.79 kwh is putting people off normal EV cars. My next EV will be with large EV manufacturers with good charging network. Not Hyundai but a Tesla. I think that big charging networks are playing into Tesla's hands. PS Electroverse are offering 20% off Osprey charger between 7pm-11pm.
The wife is currently making her way home to Newcastle from Sussex, usual ridiculous public charging problems ay Watford gap. Really, it's scandalous. I suppose it can only get better...
There's no profit in Charging the Machine you are seeing costs close to £90,000 with installation the Average EV user pay £20 to £30 per hour Electricity is not free it has to be generated the supplier pays at least 60p per KWH provided to users they also have to pay Rent for the land 0% profit Telsa can do cheap charging because that's not their main revenue and they can charge EVs at a loss
I understand these installations are paid for by our taxes in the UK. The thing rarely discussed is the maintenance, I understand this isn’t covered, and why many stop working, which is pitiful.
@@robertpemberton8562 if that was true we would all be buying fast chargers, their profit margins are low or non Existent if was not for external funding
How sad are EV owners. They make videos about the quality and speed of a charger. Imagine making a video about how quickly a car can be filled with petrol.
@@davetakesiton I charge at home only, as no matter were you charge they are around 80p but as with petrol stations they aren't all the same price ie supermarkets which are considerably cheaper than service stations
Dave, erm, who is this massive institution Blackstone of whom you speak so highly? It does not exist. I think you mean Blackrock. Sorry to be a pedant, and thanks for a great video series. Happy New Year.
Much the same criticism was made of the initial installation of Ecotricity chargers on the motorway system over 10 years ago, There is an element of Chicken/egg involved. AS for pricing , that will sort itself out over time. When popping into your local Charging Sation becomes as normal as popping into the garage , together with time of day promotions.
Solar is a Scam, after contacting multiple Solar panel users they can only produce & store close to 6kwh if you were to try to use it to charge a EV you would add 4kwh in a EV duo to Losses and that is in a Bright sunny day in UK weather good luck getting 2kwh
Sorry to disagree but in August this year my 16x250w panels powered my car for 600+ miles at a cost of £1.80 more than I spent the same month 2022. I used the granny charger, it drew 2.2kW from the smart socket and the car showed it was receiving 1.9-2kW so the charging losses were around 2-300w.
This isn’t my experience at all. “Solar is a scam’” based on what? Solar cannot store what it generates, a battery system is required! Losses are around 2-3% converting DC to AC for household use, nothing like the 30% you quote. I base my figures on GivEnergy data sheets and it’s borne out over the last 12 months as accurate. The losses are minimal when charging an EV. It’s difficult to estimate, but very cold weather makes a bigger difference. Pre-Heating the car is the answer to that. Over the Summer a 3-4kW Solar system can easily run a house AND trickle charge an EV from Solar divert (excess). Easily! One thing also worth mentioning as solar is useful, the 15p / kWh export tariff and the 7.5p/kWh EV charge tariff. An EV is around 2p / mile to run off peak charging and (long journeys aside) virtually free during the summer months. Please do your research.
@@John-FourteenSix your Response is 100% emotional it's almost like a Religious Cult here's why 1- You can't invest Thousands of pounds based on less than 3 months of summer 😳 . 2- During this 3 months of summer more than 40% of the days are also cloudy & raining . 3- most logical people will not invest close to £10,000 to save 4kwh a Day that's £1.32 Savings on current electricity prices of 33p per KWH . 4 - Most people are oversold Solar panels Charging speeds are limited by Battery input Voltage max speeds , let's say you battery Charges at 40v max input is 800w there's no point in getting 8 x 250w at 12v each in reality battery only benefits from 4 panels in non ideal conditions
@@garyhill9723 Sorry to brake it to you however is not logical to make a £20,000+ investment and quoting it gave you 600 miles For only £1.80 😏😒🫣 1- You have to factor the additional money you pay for EV Insurance, Chargers, Instalations, Solar Systems instalations, adapters, Batteries 16x250 solar panels Sorry fellow to claim it only costed you £1.80 to charge 600 miles is extremely misleading😢😒
