Hi Steve, Protected business processes are a mix between patents and trade secrets. Patents have to be carefully written to gain intellectual property and not divulge trade secrets. Patents are generally written broadly and then the patent office forces them to be narrowed. I understand the patent officer is a public employee, but please consider obscuring names and phone numbers that are in these documents. Thanks
You may not be an intellectual product analyst but you certainly have sound logic. Thanks Steve, and these questions probably will be answered on 6 of June investment meeting. Thanks again for your diligence and sharing your thoughts with us all.
I only have a couple patents… Not solar. My first used many existing components/designs.. It was just one aspect that was deemed novel that granted that patent. Many patent specialist could shed more on this! Go ☀️Aptera!
I think the market for solar on vehicles will have a pretty massive market after Aptera has proven out the tech and started manufacturing panels at high volume. Aptera is willing to sell to consumer for only $900, other automakers the price will be discounted and they may only put it on the roof. Even if it doesn't add much range the demand should increase because solar will be on trend. Who better to purchase vehicle solar panels from than the first solar EV automaker?
I checked out the trailer startup too. Must have been there before you as the solar was 920W which seemed a bit small given the roof dimension's. Nice to see the 1300W. Makes me feel better on my guesstimate! They have computer generated airflow for it being towed by a model Y. They compare it with two generic shapes in trailers and give added drag figures. They use Ecoflow packs for power along with 110 direct current and have an A/C heat pump option. Maybe the Ecoflow is a solar generator type so it can manage the solar panels [#?]? Modular additions for cooking, front bedding and sanitation also.
Great info! Minor point @9:35 u say: market for curved solar panels is not big enough to attract others encroaching into their space (copycats). Tho I agree not enough specifics to copy, the market is HUGE. Demand for curved panels for transport - cars, planes, trucks (cabs), ships will likely skyrocket once proven feasible en mass. I can envision a future where traditional box, stick-frame structures increasingly giveaway to curved surfaces for superior (strategic) solar gain and strength withstanding wind/storm damage… albeit at higher initial construction cost.
Welcome to the world of patents. Even having one does not mean you will be making a bundle on it. People seem to think that companies have all of this IP and will make a boatload but that is pretty much not the case. If you are a big corporation, you can license it out to others and then consider it a revenue stream. In the end, Aptera can make a few bucks but I seriously doubt this will be something that will make a difference in the long run. As for those travel trailers, if Aptera really wanted to appeal to a larger audience, they would include a hitch on the Aptera and then partner with Lightship and have them make a small travel trailer. They are going to make travel trailers that have motors which will use the onboard batteries (just like an EV) so you can use those batteries to make it where you have little load on the Aptera. Motors that help with the assist. Somehow I see no reference of Aptera Solar with Lightship RV. So, maybe that will happen soon? Plus if they really wanted to knock it out of the park, those electric motors can allow you to park the travel trailer. It's nothing new but for the US we are out of the loop on that.
I believe the value proposition is in protecting yourself from others who may be contesting for the same thing, in which case they would sue you for illegally using protected property. A side advantage would be licensing it out when it catches on. So, having a patent is a big deal IMO.
YES! No mystery here. Its the PolyDrops trailer. On another Forum a reader SAW it in person. The videos show it. NOT a big business venture, the trailer maker will likely be out of business soon, given the market; but its a START
I'm not well connected to all of this yet I'm sure I saw a video of the trailer going down the road. I have some 18V solar systems for different trailerable items and if I was shopping for a camp trailer, having permanently mounted solar would be reason enough not to buy that model.
Maxeon makes the solar cells and Aptera buys them. It's pretty simple. Please do not mistake that when there is an agreement, it's no different when you go to the grocery store and have an agreement that you'll buy a 2L bottle of soda.
@@billsmith5960 "Please do not mistake that" ??? Perhaps alluding to my minimal understanding of solar cell vs. wafer vs. panel. From this patent discussion and your reply I surmise Aptera will do all the solar fabrication with only the basic solar cell coming from Maxeon.
@@gr8dvd Yes, Maxeon essentially ONLY makes the raw solar cell and Aptera strings the cells together and encapsulates them (making a panel) then mounts the panels to the body or dash of Aptera. It is likely Maxeon gave some basic instruction to Aptera on how the cells should be handled and assembled. That's been my personal experience with Maxeon's predecessor SunPower.
I have a patent electroluminescent display. I had a patent pending solar tile design. Patents are an art, and you need a good attorney. Did you know: Patents are mentioned in the constitution?
Steve, if you're interested, I believe "Gochermann" is pronounced "Go-ker-man". I've had the pleasure of a few conversations with the founder (Hans Gochermann) and his son Oliver that has taken the reins of the business. Great people.
Interesting but I consider all the expensive trailers, for EVs or ICE, not worth their cost. I have seen to many friends waste money on them and thought they were a waste time and money when we used them on trips . Only folks with more money than they need can afford them. If I was in the same situation to throw that much money away I probably would want a solar source on it.
Check the logic here… if the patent is granted, then Aptera is protected. If not, then there was some technical flaw in the application or else prior art. An application denial just highlights the prior art; anyone gunning for Aptera on this tech will likely already have found that prior art. So it comes down to narrowing, as mentioned in a previous comment, through either the existing or a new application. So it seems the risk here is relatively low.
Very logical! However, Aptera has taken a risk by detailing the "method of manufacture" patent (which has been granted). Anyone can now duplicate the method of manufacture and just not let anyone from Aptera see the factory. That's why "method of manufacture" patents are less valuable.
The "plant" (method of manufacture) granted patent is less valuable than the "final rejected" patent application (for the "product") would have been. Method of manufacture patents are notoriously difficult to police/enforce. Folks like myself have been saying for years that there was nothing novel in Aptera's solar panel "product" (the so-called multi-axis curved solar panel) and that the applications for such product would likely be denied because Gochermann had the product nailed in the 80's. Finally, even without reading the now failed patent applicaiton, you would be surprised at how easy it would be for those experienced in the "art" of making solar panels to duplicate Aptera's solar panels. Again, folks like myself have been saying that for years......
I'm one of those "folks" and have been making/selling "Aptera-like" solar panels for decades for solar racing vehicles, high altitude airplanes and, believe or not, cornfield robots and Zebras!
@@alainchuzel8341 but,,, do they have the SAME attributes as Aptera solar panels, what about durability, robustness, longevity. I believe these are attributes Aptera has worked hard at optimizing, also what about the cost of making said panels?? It’s one thing just to Make a curved laminated panel, but maybe quite another to make it robust, durable, long lived, and cheaper to manufacture. Aptera offering the full solar package seems offhand relatively cheap to add on considering its claims of robustness if true. I’m not a solar engineer so I don’t really know, but these are the questions I would ask.
@@jerrymolnar8010 Some of the solar panel-types I have designed and made most certainly DO have the SAME or better attributes as Aptera solar panels. They were designed/made to meet MIL-STD-810. Regarding cost of making said panels, being mostly "one-off", you could/should expect it wasn't inexpensive. If there, indeed, is a healthy market for such panels, Aptera would be in a good position to make some "bank" if they could compete on price.
@@gr8dvd As I recall the story, Alain laminated solar cells to a leather collar that was worn by Zebras. The collar had transmitters on them that was used to track Zebra herds.
At about 9:35 in the video…not a big enough market (why apply for a patent then?). You really don’t know somewhere down the line what the marketability may end up being. APTERA in the end may end up having a very lucrative side business. Look at what Sono is now doing.
There should be a law that patents that have not actually produced a product that makes it to market or a process that has been implemented should expire.
Actually the 100 mile range can be more than that. Lightship is going to make a travel trailer which is powered and allows you to get the range you need with your EV towing it. Hopefully Aptera can attach their hub motors to is and use their CTNS battery pack to power that travel trailer. Along with the Aptera Patented solar panels.
Aptera may rate the vehicle for about 300 pounds maximum, per their prior responses regarding towing. Think Can Am trailers, not camping trailers for the Aptera, if and when a towing package is available.
My guess is the Aptera being both lightweight and 3 wheels might be a challenge to tow with. I placed my order with no plans to tow anything as I already have a good vehicle to use if I need to tow and and it’s never a travel trailer. I learned a long time ago that getting a good hotel is a better deal, less hassle and time saving than a travel trailer. If in remote areas good tent and sleeping bags work great. Most of my travel across the USA has been in a Nissan pickup with a small camper shell. Aptera seems to be perfect for car camping but not yet proven exactly how off road worth it is. I assume the off road version may be good on graded dirt roads but if it can do more than that I will be happy. I have no plans for hard off roading since I have a good Jeep for that. I ordered the off road option because of the Oklahoma roads I drive and don’t think the wheel Skriting will the hit of a good size pothole. It would be cool to try taking it on the Dempster Highway which we are doing at the end of this month in the Jeep. If it is not bad I might change my order to the 600 mile version just to try that if does ok on our Oklahoma dirt roads.
The "non-final" rejection was more likely aimed at getting a payment from Aptera to approve the application. The Patent Office is very susceptible to "pay-to-play" moves against inventors.
I just asked my neighbor who is a patent attorney. He never heard of what you talk about but will be waiting on your references of this practice that you say the USPTO does. This is huge news and since you made the claim, this will be front page news tomorrow.
Regardless of the patent discussion, why would anyone permanently mount a limited life thin film solar module on an RV type product? I own two Maxeon panels. When either fails, I'll replace it without any effect to what I have it mounted to.
I think patents are risky, especially when rejected, since everyone can read what you said was patentable. For me, it’s better to just “keep your mouth shut”. Just keep everything in-house. Show the product, but don’t show the process.
If it is true, integrated solar panels will get nore hot and lose efficiency Also the angle to the sun is wrong, and the caravan will be in the shade sometimes. So maybe more like 650wattpeak in real life
Richard.... Aptera promised 700peakwatt and 4kwh in 2019, its now 5 years later and they have 0 real life test results, why should you believe them, if they did real life test results don't you think they want to show them 🤔 They say they are transparent, i say they are opaque
@@shrimptopian3392 This isn't about believing Aptera, this is about a solar panel losing more than half of it's power output. Perhaps you could explain how this happens instead of making a personal attack on me.
Richard, it's not an attack on you, i love the Aptera, but i don't like the way tge company takes money from people, and only make promises and prove nothing
Sono Motors and Lightyear have tons of patents for solar integration on ev and other vehicles, you guess how much money they made with these patents the last 5 years.... 0 All these patents are worthless
Just because you can't make money off of thing does not mean that it is worthless. Patents like these form a legal bulwark protecting you against other patent holders who might sue to collect royalties on your designs (edited because voice to text sucks)
@@GoClimbARockEh Remember, so far Aptera has not been granted any patent on the "product". Two patent applications for such a product have failed. One has been abandoned by Aptera and the other is in "final rejection" status.
