In this video I share my quest for the best accuracy with the Hornady 68 gr BTHP. I try four different powders: CFE223, IMR 8208 XBR, Reloder 15, and H4895.
Man my m70 bolt rifle in 223 loves that IMR 8208XBR. It has been my experience that those crazy fliers are just part of life with an AR. I think it has to do with the violent loading cycle. They seem to happen either on the first shot when closing the bolt by hand which is nothing like the bolt operating under speed in subsequent cycles in semi. Then for some reason they seem to crop up with the last round in the magazine. I pretty much gave up on my AR for serious target work. It just costs too much to get one to shoot as well as a good bolt rifle. Still a good video. Keep breaking those loads down and sooner or later you'll see magic.
I have gotten just under an inch at 100 with the 68BTHP with Varget at 24.2 grains powder and OAL 2.260. At 300 yards 1.8 inch to 2.5 inch. CCI 400 primers Federal brass. with Odin Works 18 inch DMR 223 wydle 1-8 twist.
I suggest getting .75 inch dot stickers in the office supply section to use as aiming points. Stick them on regular printer paper. I think that will shrink your groups. Aim small, miss small.
Great video! There is so much detail involved in this kinda shooting. Bullet stabilization is easty to achieve with heavier jacketed bullets, even if they are just 55 gr. Or even try solid copper if you can. But for 68 gr bullets specifically, they seem to like the 1:7 twist barrels just due to the weight alone. I had to prove this with my brother, which he has a 1:9 twist and mine is 1:7 twist, and my groups where an honest 1", may even 3/4" . But your doing all the right stuff, maybe try 60 gr or a heavy (thick) jacketed 55 gr bullet. Have fun.
I'm starting working charge rates for .223/5.56 also in my AR -15's but I'm going to keep it simple using only two powders: CFE 223 and AA 2520. I built an AR in 6.5 Grendel one day at the range two times putting four shots into one hole, the fifth I would throw opening up the group size; my emotions took over the cause for throwing the fifth shot, so I don't do anymore five shot groups just three shots groups, range 112 yards.
I love the 68gr Hornady. My Savage Predator shoots them into bug-holes with Varget or H4895. Read about lots of people not being able to shoot them well but they love my gun.
Then when you find the best powder charge, start altering seating length 0.005" in or out to dial in the perfection. I actually start with a known minimum medium burn powder charge, then change seating depth first, then worry about the charge weight later.
Lots of great information! I currently load 65cm and am about to get into loading 223/556. I'm looking for the same thing, a cheap, accurate, fast round to shoot all day out of my ar. Do you ever watch Johnneys Reloading bench channel? He shoots the 69 and 77 grain SMK as well as the 62 and 75 grain Speer gold dot. It seems that many of these heavier bullets are stabilizing better at (higher) 5.56 pressures. I have seen people put 25.2 gr of CFE223 behind a 70+ grain bullets. I really want to try Cfe as well as AA2520 and Shootersworld Match. Ali 2000mr would also be a good choice since Alliant powders seem to be cheaper (except ar-comp) Thanks for the great video!! Best of luck!
I have been testing the Varget with the 68 Gr. using 24.5 grains. It's ok, but not tight. I have used a hotter powder N133, but it seems a little too hot. I think my answer is going to be the H4895. The burn rate is between the Varget & N133. That will give me a little more pressure without the short purst. I had thought about the CFE223, but it's an even slower burning powder than the Varget. That's what I do not want. I forgot the the barrel, 18" SS 1-8 twist. I have noticed that the Hornady 68 gr. HP is .080 longer than the Sierra 69 gr. HP. This makes a big difference in loading.
you should try the 8208 again but start at 23gr and go up. I shoot 75gr Hornady BTHP and Sierra 77gr match kings with it at 22.7gr and get very good accuracy. Actually all those powders you have will produce excellent groups, you just have to test more than just within 1grain difference and don't be afraid to go over book max if you aren't having any pressure signs. I generally find my best accuracy right at book max and higher. Actually I tend to get a good accuracy node somewhere around the low beginning charge weights and then again up towards max. (real max, not book max..alot of reloading manuals max loads are way too low. Some max loads in the Hornady manual are starting loads from the powder manufacturers)
Your comment timing is good. A few weeks ago I tested 75gr Hdys with 8208. 21 to 22.5 grs and 21 had best accuracy at 0.71", while 22.5 had worst at 2.09". 3 shot groups at 100 yards stepped up in 0.5 gr increments. Personally I'll stick to staying within book loads, by the time I can read pressure signs it's likely too late.
Based on my experience I think you are using increments that are about 2x what they should be and you may be skipping right over the best charges. Intervals between .7 - 1% of the charge weight work best for me so I would be using a .2 grain increment maybe .3 grain at the most but that is probably too much. If you use your best group charge for each powder and move in .2 grain increments in both directions from that charge I think you will find the best group.
T H I think your idea has merit, and sometimes I go down to 0.3 increments with the smaller cartridges like .223. I would like to not have the load be so sensitive that If I am off a 0.1 grain I would hate to see it open up due to hat small of a deviation.
some food for thought while you search for the load...it comes down to pressure and the smaller the case volume the more each kernel of powder affects the pressure. For my .300 WM I used .7 grain increments, .308 .4 grain increments and .223 .2 grain increments. With each I succeeded in finding multiple powder charge weights that had close to the same group center even though the groups were different sizes. The variance in velocity for those charges was small compared to other charge weight increases so using the middle charge weight gave the largest margin of error for the powder charge when throwing powder charges. For the .223 a + or - .2 grains is about as good as I've seen in my experience.
T H I agree with your point. I typically error towards slightly bigger steps in loads to test across a wider load level with less bullets and powder being consumed, but agree I could be missing some of the sweet spots with this approach.
Hey D, what kind of barrel are you running in the AR? It almost looks like heat dispersion in your groups. Kind of like a sporter weight barrel in a bolt gun and the groups are good early in the string, but open up when the dreaded heat monster shows up! Also, if you run any ladders and see a tight group early, followed by what looks like flyers, then another good group, you are onto something! Keep going another graduation higher in the ladder (max charge permitting) and you might just see the best charge weight. It has to do with the OCW voodoo and barrel harmonics. I had almost the same groups as yours with my 20" SS HBAR AR and if I would have stopped when the group opened I would have missed the magic number with 68grHPBT over 25.5gr of Varget. Have fun, Gerry
gerry mckown Hey Gerry, thanks for watching! It's not an M4 contour, somewhat lighter than that, but not a pencil barrel either. It's a CMMG barrel and not sure what they call the contour. Good ideas for me to try. Thank you!
I got a bunch of 68gr hornadys here in sweden but we usually load with norma or VV powder.. what seems to make a big difference is the quality and prepping of your brass.. cheap mixed brass does not compare to match prepped cases.. also i belive than my 1 in9" twist is maybe too slow for the 68grs..
Using h4895 with the 68 Hornady bthp. Having great results 23.8 gr. only issue is bolt not staying open on last shot. Has anyone else had this problem? Had some feeding issues at starting loads but cleared as I increased
Did you have any functionality issues? I just work up some loads with the same bullet I used Varget powder. 24.5 grains COL 2.257 and it seemed like it was under power because the bolt did not go back far enough to strip the next round from the magazine but it ejected just fine. Oh and ran them through my 10.3 barrel SBR. By the way Accuracy was very nice 👍
We are very fortunate to have public ranges like this in Wi. I sometimes go further North to a range by Mosinee, WI that has a cool setup with trenches and can shoot at distances out to 300 yards.
ARE YOUR FLYER ROUNDS ON THE LAST SHOT WHEN THE BOLT IS OPEN ON THE LAST ROUND? ALWAYS PUT AN EXTRA ROUND IN THE MAG FOR THE LAST SHOT IN YOUR GROUPS SO THE BOLT WILL BE CLOSED.
Are you running these threw a AR-15 ? I just purchased 250 of the same 68Gr bthp and I am using Cfe223 powder, but a coworker tells me I can't shot these threw my spikes Ar-15 1-9 twist, he says I must use a bolt action 700 . can I run these?
AMERICA THATS WHY Yep, that's why I titled it AR 15 loads 😎. Mine has a 1:7 twist, which is for the heavy for caliber bullets. You can physically shoot these without issue, whether they will stabilize and be accurate is hard to say for sure, but if I were you I would load up a sample and try since you already have the bullets.
The 1:9 twist is more capable than given account for that's why most manufacturers fit their guns with 1:9 twist barrels from the factory. The 1:9 twist will stabilize bullets with up to 69 grain very well. I've also seen some people shoot heavier bullets out of 1:9 twist barrels with excellent results. However if you go 73 grain and up the risk for the bullets not stabilizing properly goes up and you might end up keyholing. But there is much more than just the weight to matching the bullet with the right twist. Actually the biggest factor is length of the bullet. And that can vary with the type of materials used in the bullet and the general shape. Also what your colleaque might have been worried about is if the cartridges will fit into the magazine of the AR. And that should also be no problem at all. Actually the 68 grain is specifically listed for the AR-15 service rifle competition in the Hornady manual. They write that they got the best results with Vihtavuori N140 and also list the CFR 223. With CFR 223 they reccomend between 22.5 and 26.3 grains of powder and a C.O.L. of 2.250" the case trimmed to 1.750". Just try how it works out of your AR. Sart with conservative loads at the lower spectrum and work your way up.
