Arboretum is Best at 4 Players | Unpopular Opinions

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If you ask BoardGameGeek, popular opinion says Arboretum plays best at 2 players. I'm definitely in the minority here, as I strongly believe it plays best at 4, and in this video I tell you exactly why.
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0:00 Intro + BGG Rankings
1:41 Game Overview
3:53 Differences Between 2 and 4
5:09 End-Game Scoring
7:46 Hand Management & Discard Piles
9:33 Tension From Turn 1
10:42 Thoughts on 2-Player Game
11:26 Nitpicks With 4 Players
12:00 Analysis Paralysis?
12:43 Closing Thoughts - What Do You Think?

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Опубликовано:

22 июл 2024

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Комментарии : 40

@AllYouCanBoard 2 года назад

What's your favourite player count to play Arboretum and why? Or had you never played it before and are curious to check it out now?

@toddkauk6099 2 года назад

100% agree, 2p is my least favourite count. Thanks for the video, and Merry Christmas!

@AllYouCanBoard 2 года назад

Thanks Todd, and same to you!

@steveg9939 Год назад

Great arguments. I played maybe 10 times at 2 players, once at 3 and once at 4. That game lasted over 2 hours due to serious AP from 2 of the 4 players in the game. I haven't played it at 4 since... With experienced players, I suppose I'd try it again. Such a good game!

@AllYouCanBoard Год назад

Whoa, that's definitely way too long, I don't think I'd enjoy it much if it went anywhere near 2 hours. I've definitely had games go over an hour and even then it feels longer than it should. If you can get it played with a group of 4 and have it done in 30-45 minutes I think you'll have a MUCH better time with it.

@kaitlynlowery8840 2 года назад

I was almost ready to but this as a stocking stuffer, and it definitely would have been a two player game for us. So glad I saw this video!

@AllYouCanBoard 2 года назад

As I mentioned in the video, if you're looking for great 2-player card games, I'd highly recommend Battle Line (or Schotten Totten which is very similar) or Lost Cities. Another great one for 2 players is Air, Land, and Sea. I think these are all in a similar price range and have a similar play time. Hope you find something you enjoy!

@draheim90 2 года назад

I haven’t played Arboretum but your argument and explanation makes a lot of sense. I’ve noticed with rummy and mechanistically similar games (which Arboretum seems to be), playing 2p vs 3 or 4 can often be almost like playing a different game. Adding that 3rd or 4th player changes the dynamic and adds uncertainty, particularly for games where all cards are drawn so in 2p there’s no unknown info. Often 2p is more cutthroat based on having more known information (as you mentioned) whereas in 3 or 4p it becomes a better strategy to focus on your own game plan rather than blocking other players. Applies to a lot of other games beyond rummy-like ones, Azul is the first one that comes to mind, also maybe FFA mode in Warcraft 3. This doesn’t necessarily make 2p better of worse than multiplayer, it just boils down to preference and, sometimes, the specific game and mechanisms.

@AllYouCanBoard 2 года назад

Thanks! You're absolutely right, and Azul and War3 are both great examples. The more players there are in most games, the more each player has to look out for their best interests more than trying to impede one or two opponents.

@franciscocarranza9941 2 года назад

Good arguments. I guess the lack of that uncertainty is what I prefer of the two player game and what makes it more tense rather than less tense for me. I still enjoy it at all player counts. Biblios is another game that is fun to see who’s got what in their hand at the endgame reveal. I also love that one at all player counts.

@AllYouCanBoard 2 года назад

Yes, Biblios! Amazing game that has a similar end-game reveal. I also prefer Biblios with 4 players but either way they're both great games.

@joshuawestlund 2 года назад

Really love the concept of this series and the specific points here and the discussion in the comments. Love Arboretum at 3 and 4. Wouldn’t bother at 2z.

@AllYouCanBoard 2 года назад

Thanks, Joshua! Glad to hear you enjoyed it. It's suuuuuch a good game with 3 or 4 players.

@TurtleDude05 2 года назад

Couldn't agree with this video more. Arboretum is one of those games that just gets better the more you add. (Up to the max that is.)

@pincao 2 года назад

Great video. Appreciate the insights…

@AllYouCanBoard 2 года назад

Thanks, Paul! I really enjoyed putting this one together. I know some people have said it fell flat for them as a 2-player game, so I hope more people try it out with 3 or 4 which is where I think it truly shines.

@paulhamrick3943 2 года назад

I've now played the game twice, each time with 4 players, and can't help but sorta feel that there is a very strong luck element at this player count. Some people seemed to easily get the 4-of-a-kind (and actually a 5-of-a-kind) paths and actually be able to score them. I sorta think that getting rid of that rule would make the game better, or maybe softening it a bit. But whatever I've only played it twice so I'm likely just frustrated that I came in 4th in the first game and then 3rd in the second game.

@AllYouCanBoard 2 года назад

There's absolutely more luck in a 4-player game, no question. But personally, I like that more than the card counting, mathematical leaning 2-player game. Even the times I've finished dead last with 0 points, I've had so much fun playing Arboretum, especially the reveal of cards at the end.

@neilreynolds8110 2 года назад

Love it as a 3 player - definitely prefer to 2, not played yet at 4 but very keen to try now, thank you!! 😃

@AllYouCanBoard 2 года назад

No problem! Even though I like it most with 4, it's still an amazing game with 3 players. But with 2 players I only think it's okay.

@sylvieroets4214 10 месяцев назад

I had this game on my wishlist because the preferred player count on bgg. Now that I got the game and wanted to watch a review, I was intrigued that you prefer it at 4. I definitely want to try it at 4 players now.

@AllYouCanBoard 10 месяцев назад

Right on, I hope you enjoy it with 4 (or even 3). It certainly has a different feel to it at the higher counts.

@stocktraderboy 7 месяцев назад

Excellent review! 4 is best!

@masonboley876 Год назад

Easy "house rule" if the card counting is an issue at 2 players: add another tree deck BUT remove 8 cards from the deck and put them aside and not include them in the game. Thoughts?

@AllYouCanBoard Год назад

I'm not sure if that's better because then the deck is missing cards, so some tree species would inherently be better/worse. I feel that's too far from the original design, and the designer clearly intended to have numbers 1-8 in the deck for any colours that are in play.

@DinoGramatikov 2 года назад

4 players drawback? King Making.

@AllYouCanBoard 2 года назад

I guess there can maybe be a bit of that, but not entirely in this game. You're not supposed to reveal what's in your hand to other players, and I've never played with anyone who's trying to count everyone's points in each other's tableaus throughout the game, so I haven't experience any games of Arboretum where people are "attacking the leader" or anything like that. From my experience the end-game scoring reveal is usually a surprise to everyone.

@DinoGramatikov 2 года назад

@@AllYouCanBoard You've been fortunate :) Either my playgroup is quite advanced or I have such a huge target on my forehead. In any case, in our experience it's more or less 80% certain who's doing what by the last two turns. And another thing - in case it's opaque, people can - and do - gang up against whichever board looks the most developed. In the end, it might be the group dynamic in any old abstract 4-player game and it's not the game's mechanics per se that are to blame in this particular case, so it ends up being a generic drawback. So that being said, does the benefit of a 2p game that by definition does not have king making outweigh the 4p experience? I can't tell. I love it with both player counts.

@AllYouCanBoard 2 года назад

@@DinoGramatikov If everyone knows who's doing what by the last 2 turns, that could mean people have revealed too much about what's in their hands. It's important to keep some of your cards from the start in hand until the very end so that some of your cards are unknown to everyone. If everyone is drawing from face-up discard piles then people can keep track of what other people have. Otherwise how would you know who has which cards and who can stop players from scoring? Also - the player who has the strongest-looking tableau might be the player who scores the fewest points if they don't have the card majorities in their hand to earn the right to score for those tree types. I don't necessarily disagree with you, it just sounds like my group's 4-player games have been very different from yours, and that's really interesting to me as I had never considered the kingmaking potential of this game. I don't often play with the exact same group of 4 though, so maybe I'll start to see similarities in your comments once I get to that point with the same group. As of now, it always feels like everyone is looking forward to that end-game reveal and there are usually surprises. As always, thanks for sharing your thoughts, Dino!

@DinoGramatikov 2 года назад

@@AllYouCanBoard All good arguments! Our group does indeed rely a lot on discarded cards..

@yuliamaksimova2759 2 года назад

Arboretum is very deep game. The main point is you never know what you opponent collects. You description is for family stile playing the game.

@AllYouCanBoard 2 года назад

I've never thought of it as a family game, especially not for 4 players, it can be very mean and confrontational by players holding onto specific cards to deny their opponents points. I've had many games where someone ends with 0 points, which I don't think is ideal for a family game.

@yuliamaksimova2759 2 года назад

@@AllYouCanBoard Chess for four players? (Arboretum scoring and certain number of rounds)

@stocktraderboy 7 месяцев назад

2 players is ridiculous for any game! 4 works best for Most games!! People with 2 players need to make some friends and stop forcing their only friend or partner to play every time.😢

@AllYouCanBoard 7 месяцев назад

Generally I would agree that most games are better with 4 players than 2, but I have to disagree with the rest of your comment. I don't think playing with 2 players is ridiculous - games like Carcassonne (plays up to 5), Race for the Galaxy (plays up to 4), Santorini (plays up to 4) are actually much better with 2 players. I think it really depends on the game. Also - not everyone is in a position to play with a bigger group. There are a variety of reasons why someone might only have access to one other player to play games with - maybe they don't know anyone else who enjoys games, or maybe they just have one roommate and they live far away from a major city with other gamers, or whatever the case may be. But I absolutely agree with your last point - nobody should ever force someone else to play a game. If your friend or partner isn't actively interested in playing a game they should never feel forced to do that just to make one person happy. Thanks for watching!

@Gathanokos Год назад

This is not about Arboretum but a game called 'Citadels.' One of the very strange thing is that BGG seems to like this game a lot better when there are more people. I get that its really fun, but most of my friends who actually tried 2 player rules thinks it's actually best with two. There are some occasions that you really need to try it yourself before concluding it's not for you XD

@AllYouCanBoard Год назад

Great point! I actually played Citadels recently with 5 players and it took around 2 and a half hours. The entire time I was thinking, "I wonder how much quicker this would be with 2 or 3 players..."

@DRailer12 2 года назад

Unequal plants breaks this game for me, I will always modify the rules to ensure everyone gets an equal amount of plants put into a players Tableau

@AllYouCanBoard 2 года назад

Do you mean if the game ends before all players have had an equal number of turns? Worst case scenario some players might have one fewer tree in play, because you have to place one tree each turn. I've never found it to be an issue in my plays but maybe we just haven't noticed.

@DRailer12 2 года назад

@@AllYouCanBoard thats exactly the situation. Still really like the game, just like finishing out the round. Players can always draw from the discard piles when the draw deck is emptied