Archaeological Evidence For The Hopewell As The Nephites feat. Wayne May 

When I was a teenager we had a Navajo teen stay with us under the old LDS placement program. For about a year my father was trying to learn how to read and speak Hebrew. While he was practicing Hebrew one day, she happened to overhear him and got excited because she thought my Dad was trying to learn Navajo. He explained he was trying to learn Hebrew. She said "no that's Navajo". They then spent a couple of hours and found several Navajo words that were exactly the same as Hebrew.

I love Wayne May. I have read and studied A LOT on this subject and I find Wayne's arguments by far the most credible and convincing.

Greg is a HeartLEANER! Love it. Great interview. Good job keeping him focused too. I hope you will have him back for more.

Even before I heard about the Heartland theory, Meso-America has never felt right as a place where the Nephites lived and died. The more I look into it, the more Heartland makes sense. Some cannot accept that opinion, and that is ok. The Book of Mormon is the Word of God, no matter where it happened, and that's all that matters at the end of the day.

Greg, I gave you three thumbs up for this one!! 😁

The source about Joseph identifying the bones as Jaredite is found in MS 23660 on the church history catalog. The title is "Notes from Elizabeth Baum's diary."

This is very exciting about the language being similar between the Ojibwa (Ojibwe?) and Hebrew. I watched an interview recently with Chief Midegah of the Ojibwe, and he said there are writings that have been preserved by his people, handed down through the generations. He knows his people are of Israeli descent. Very intriguing. (on Book of Mormon Hartland)

Love Wayne May and how he is helping people understand. God bless him.

As a young girl in the 1960's I heard about the "Mound Builders" and was told their people were unknowable. In my heart, I knew they were special. When I joined the church in 1973 the Mesoamerican thought was main stream. Looking at those temples in central America, I just couldn't see them to be from the Book of Mormon. When I learned of the Homeland thought, and heard Wayne May's lecture, I was sold. I suppose in the end, we'll know the total truth. Thanks Greg for having Wayne on. Very interesting and satisfying.

I nominate Wayne to speak in the next General Conference! He is absolutely right!

I'm not sold yet on either model nore do I consider it needful for my salvation, but as a lover of history I find it exciting. My issues with the north American model are no cement structures found that I'm aware of. And the Mississippi runs in the wrong direction to be the river Sidon that some try to make it out to be. But it's all very exciting as the Lord reveals more.

Thank you for this interview. I will study up on Wayne's finds. Maybe even attend the conference.

I'm a heartlander purely because of 1 Nephi 13, but my goodness Wayne doesn't help himself with not sounding a bit nutty. He needs to slow his cadence and discuss back and forth more rather than just spitting out facts and jumping from place to place so quickly. It feels erratic. I could sense Greg forcing himself to stay patient while Wayne just kept going on and not responding to his questions so much. Wayne, have more dialogue back and forth as opposed to just talking and talking and talking and talking and not realizing that Greg was asking questions and you just keep going and going. Slow down, have a conversation by listening more rather than trying information dump your entire catalogue of knowledge in 20 minutes.

I just purchased Land of Promise issues 1-12. Can't wait to dive in. 😊

Wayne May, I would love to go on a tour to the mounds! Is that in your future?

Did you know that the ancient names of the cities in Mexico mazatlan , aztalan, atlan, technocticlan are Greek in origin? Yes indeed, the chroniclers of the conquistadors asked the Aztecs where they came from, they said the place was inhabited by a ppl who called themselves Atlans , and came from a place called atlan , from across the seas. Meaning Atlantis, Atlantic, same with the river Sidon, its Greek from Hebrew meaning water ‘’poseidon ‘’ . These new findings about the ‘’ handbags of the gods’’ are found among the Aztecs, Mayan, Inca, paracas, Angkor wat, Egyptians, Sumerians, hewbrews, Jews, Asians, etc….. well in Labans case, his was brass plates but the same things, in these handbags, was bloodlines, mantles of authorities, song and encantations , hymns, set prayers , history’s etc… there so much that backs Joseph smith and the Book of Mormon …. I can attest it’s true from the Lord God Almighty himself, I don’t need any evidence . But I love history . Good stuff men

I totally accept the Hopewell ideas. Joseph Smith identifies a Nephi individual as he walked across the land towards Missouri. Seeing also the Hebrew writings on stones and the serpent mounds etc. proves the North American lands.

Why can't both theories be true?

Did Wayne May ever provide Greg with the reference to Joseph Smith saying that "Those guys are Jaredites...Cover them up."? How can we get that reference? I'd like to really look at the journal entry to see how credible it is.

How do you know AI is correct?

The voracity with which the heartland theory is dismissed by the mesoamerican theorists troubles me. Not that I care one way or the other, but if you believe so strongly then use evidence and artifacts to make your argument, not tradition of belief. Tradition of belief is what the lamenites used as arguments to go to war against the Nephites.

Wayne May is my HERO

Web search "maya temple". What do you see? Pyramid with steps-NOT Israelite: law of Moses forbids steps to the altar. And it looks nothing like the Temple of Solomon that Nephi used as a model. Obvious conclusion is that the Maya temples were not built by Nephites. QED

The plural of "evidence" is "evidence".

I just wonder where the narrow neck of land is, or was

Gregory L Little

Does it have to be either/ or? Either the Meso-American model of Book of Mormon geography or the Heartland model? Isn't there ample evidence that native Americans transversed the continent? Could it not be both/and?

I struggled with the North American model for a long time, but It seems clear that Joseph was a heart lander. As a former meso person, I think there is an easy way to reconcile the mezo and North American models: mesoamerica was absolutely a Christian center and everything that matches the gospel comes from post Christ’s appearance to the people on the American continent. Before that, though - we don’t yet have evidence of Christian or nephite-reminiscent artifacts. The Nephites were in North America, but missionary work after Christ converted the entire continent to the gospel and is beautifully evidenced in mesoamerica. They are both Christian locations, only the timeframes are different.

Please, someone address the reasons why there is such a divergence of reasons.

Coptic … if you look up the definition of “coptic” it descended from ancient Egyptian.

ReOrganized Church originated the Mesoamerica model ...

How could anyone believe it’s not the heartland? There is so much evidence.

Why can't they carbon date the sword blades? May is not making himself look good. I've seen many of the things he talks about, but he needs to calm down and show some photos.

I can leave open the possibility that the Algonquin speaking tribes by the Hopewell could be either Jaredite or from Lehi's group. There are 5 reasons why I believe haplogroup X is not Nephites, and may be Jaredites: 1. Kennewick man is from about 6000 BC to 0 AD give or take. This could be during the time of Lehi's arrival but it seems weighted towards the earlier times. The fact that Kennewick man was by water from the Columbia River of unknown carbon age makes the exact age unclear. 2. Haplogroup X2a and X2g are found among the Natives highest in the Algonquin speaking tribe (up to 25%), but X2e is found also in the Altai region. Genetic haplogroups can be expressed in alternating letter and number format. If one letter changes this indicates a single mutation. This indicates a possible connection to Asians and Jaredites with X2"g" and X2"e", with the key difference being the "g" and "e". 3. The Algonquin speaking tribes have higher concentrations of blood type O than the natives in the SE USA, and they also have a DNA marker associated with this type O blood found in Kuwait and the Altai region. This could connect the Jaredites to originally occupying the Kuwait area at one time and also travelling over Asia. Kuwait is the ancient area of Sumerians and Mesopotamia and this would possibly be pre-Hebrew times. 4. Haplogroup X is common among the Druze in the MIddle East (around 15%), but their religion origin appears different than Hebrews. This suggests a different place of origin than the Hebrews, unless the Druze converted at one time to their religion today. 5. It is suggested Lehi travelled by sea around Arabia. It is suggested that the Jaredites travelled by land across Asia then by sea since the book of Ether explains the Jaredites being many years in the wilderness and explains that "they should go forth into the wilderness, yea, into that quarter where there never had man been" and "....behold, it came to pass that the Lord did bring Jared and his brethren forth even to that great sea which divideth the lands." Is this great sea referring to the Pacific Ocean?

I have an “actual” archaeologist/paleontologist in my ward. He’s also an avowed socialist (not important but I shared anyway), we were talking the other day at my son’s activity day activity, and the origins of the Book of Mormon people came up somehow. We talked about Sorensen and Porter and the rest and the second that I mentioned I used to be 100% of the Meso-American mindset but now indifferent, but if asked I would say Hopewell, that was it. He lambasted me and other non-accredited archaeologists (like Wayne May and Meldrum and the rest) thinking they know more than the accredited ones. He roasted Heartland- Hopewell, Adena, etc. It was funny. I love this stuff. Thanks for sharing, Greg and Wayne. I honestly don’t even care anymore where it happened though, our western civilization is in decline, won’t exist much past 2030 and I just want to be able to feed my kids next year and not have to fight with them telling me they are trans or part of the rest of the gqblt-p cult.

I could listen to Wayne and the others talk about this all day! Hope they know how much support they have. Keep going boys.

Psalms 85:11. “Truth shall spring out of the earth; and righteousness shall look down from heaven.” 😇

I just absolutely love Wayne May, and this video was fascinating!! Thanks for having him as your guest. It’s so sad that LDS academia won’t even bother to listen to his findings, and they have refused to have him on LDS programs. Please bring Wayne May back. ❤🙏🏼

When I read the Book of Mormon, I take the statement that their people spread from the sea east to the sea west and from the sea north to the sea south, I took that to mean the whole continent of the Americas. I also, as I read, concluded that the Lamanites were "invited" to live in the South America area and the Nephites in the North American area...So Mesoamerica would have had evidence of habitation...I imagine we will someday know all things, but for now, I am satisfied with my assumptions (or maybe the Spirit teaching me). I always took the Sidon river to be the Mississippi River. So I believer they started in North America and the Laminates were cast in South America, but I concur that the last big battle was around the Hill Cumorah where the records were buried, and again if I'm wrong, I will find out when all things are revealed to us. (Conclusively)

My desr brother in christ. You are talking to one of my favorite people. Love Wayne May.

Go on a Heartland tour with Rod Meldrum. It’s clear where the Book of Mormon took place. Was a MesoAmerica follower before!!

For any who might discount Wayne as not a *real* archeologist let me mention that I am a qualified geophysicist yet that doesn’t automatically make me right. Facts stand on their own. In fact, if a professional’s career or funding is on the line - there may be real reason to be skeptical of their stance.

Finally about time you had him on. I appreciate what a good listener you are to your guests Graig. Looking forward to more please!

As I have been reading, contemplating, and praying about the Book of Mormon the question always comes up about the earthen mounds. The Nephites raised up earth to fortify against those trying to kill them or bring them into bondage. The earthen mounds are spoken of a lot in the Book of Mormon. I haven't heard of any evidence of this in the Meso American model. Please let me know if I am missing something. I just feel strongly about what Joseph Smith taught.

Wayne may, you certainly have a mission and you are fulfilling it so well. I love your books and your land of promise magazine.

Wayne is a legend. Really has some great stuff he has gathered.

Murdered/martyred, in Joseph's case, is there any difference, in my mind the greatest difference is that martyred is in the service of God

Excellent guest Wayne May. 27:15 location of "coptic out of egypt" seems correct when i look it up. 36:45. Wayne allows correction from Greg.

Man, ohh man! Is there ever a bunch of stuff in this video! Whoo boy! I've watched/listened to this 2x, back to back, and picked out more the 2nd time. This is all very convincing to me. Thank you!

I loved his comment, "I follow Joseph." Best source of Nephite culture information. I follow Joseph too. But it's my testimony through the Spirt that tells me the Book of Mormon is true.

Is there irrefutable proof? Maybe not, but in my mind, the Heartland model makes more sense, and there is plenty of evidence to convince me. I find visualizing their travels along the rivers of central North America helps me understand what I'm reading. I'm well convinced of the Heartland argument. PS. I live in southwest Ohio and see the evidence firsthand. I believe Ohio was the land Bountiful.

BYU professors wrote their books and put their reputation on the line with the meso America theory. WHO wants to get them upset? That is their livelihood.

This is so interesting! I have heard Lehi landed somewhere in North Florida. The Appalachian mountains end around Appilaciacola. If Nephi went north he would come onto the Tennessee River which flows North. I hope you have Wayne Maye on again.

Hey Greg and Wayne, Have you listened to any of Chief Midegah's Heatland video's. He's calling out the Church to recognize them as descendants of the Book of Mormon and to help them blossom, although he seems a bit antagonistic.

I am a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, convert. I have been reading a lot on the Howell, Adena, and Jaradites. Along with the mounds in different places. I go along with you spot on. I asked a friend of mine who has been a member all her like, she would not acknowledge this or did not know what I was talking about. Thank you for this awesome talk. I am in your corner

West Virginia Institute of Technology in Montgomery West Virginia excavated an Adena settlement on the banks of the Kanawha River at the mouth of Armstrong Creek. As a child in the early 1960's, our family watched Dr. Robert McMichael (I think that was his name), an archaeologist, unearth a skeleton of a pregnant Native American woman. They worked there, excavating the settlement until they had no more funding. A housing development was eventually built on the site. It is named Adena Village, Mt. Carbon, Fayette Co., West Virginia

The real Nephites were the friends we made along the way ❤

I know why it happens “the great divide.” Because “when they are learned they think they are wise.”

Back in the 70s, my early morning seminary teacher, Bro. Spencer told us about his mission to upstate New York. He and his companion visited a farmhouse. The older couple weren't interested but offered them breakfast. After they ate, the farmer showed them several bushel baskets of arrow heads. Bro. Spencer asked him how many years it took to gather so many points. The man laughed and told him that they were from that Springs plowing. I was a bit skeptical 50 years ago, but now I wish I could have another conversation with him!!

Great podcast Greg. I’ve been a heart lander for ten years now.

I appreciate the work Wayne has done. I do wish, though, he would not just say “it’s there” but give the references online, real time when asked. This is regarding Greg’s question about the journal entry of the daughter of Jacob Baum (sp?). Without a reference it is still just hearsay.

I believe the Heartland model. It makes sense and Joseph Smith wrote and others too about walking over the lands. I believe Bro. Joseph.

Heartlander here

Yay!! Love Wayne May! :) So happy you have him on the show. :) Been following his work since at least 2008/9) It’s a dream of mine to be able to afford to work with him some day. Thanks Greg!

You should learn about the Ngati Hotu family of New Zealand. Left the highlands of the Iranian- Indian border 3500 years ago. Travelled via Egypt, North- Africa, across the Atlantic to the Americas. Their family DNA is found in the " Jaredite" areas of North America, along the Western coast, Mexico, South America, Easter Island to New Zealand. The DNA has been verified by National Geographic.

I’m a total Heartlander. Love Bro May.

I recently came back from Cancun, Mexico. We visited Tulum ruins. As we were enjoying the blue water at Isla Mujeres, I realized Florida wasn’t that far away with Islands in between. It would be a pleasant Caribbean cruse to get to Cancun area. I really think Way’s theories are spot on about the Nephites. I also think there was probably some migration down South of possibly the Lamanites. It’s just so easy to see how they could cross the Gulf of Mexico from Florida. Any thoughts?

I literally just read this today in my scriptures 🎉 thank you so much! They found a city that appeared to be destroyed . They said it was jaredites and they rebuilt and repaired in what was there!

I love Wayne May's passion and have watched many of his videos. However, I don't see how the Heartland model works with the geographic details described in the Book of Mormon.

It’s time to get our food storage if you don’t have it. Our stake President in Eastern Idaho said he had a dream to tell the saints in his stake to have a food storage.

The Jaredites had a longer existence than the Nephites, even though they have a small record created by Ether. They were constantly at war with a lot of internal corruption. I think it's possible that many groups of people bailed from that civilization (like Hagoth with the Nephites) and migrated South, very far South, and when the core Jaredite civilization collapsed, these other breakoffs survived and became the majority of the ancestors of the Native people in the Americas and that Nephites and Lamanites mixed with them much like the lost 10 tribes mixed with their surrounding cultures. I think that could explain the DNA. The Mexican and South American tribes may be remnants that broke off from the Jaredites hundreds of years before their destruction to where they were completely separate cultures at that point and may have been completely unaware of each other. Just a theory.

For the last 20 years everything seems split between limited mezoamerica and heartland theories. No one even mentions South America anymore. For most of church history though they believed in a hemispheric model like Maye mentioned with Williams who was a contemporary with Joseph and died in 1842, 2 years before Joseph. If Joseph was as clear as the heartland guys suggest he was, why was the whole church during his life and immediately after believing in a hemispheric model and not an exclusively North American model?

Thanks Greg! Love this and love the Bruce Porter talks too!

I don't want there to be contention in the Church over Book of. Mormon geography. While I do believe the evidence, the Scriptures and the Spirit lead me to believe in the Heartland model, I don't want to get into any contention on the issue, which I have encountered before. Thank you for having Brother May on.

Love watching Wayne May. Thank you for having him on.

Love how Wayne’s phone is just on full blast and he doesn’t even care lol

Chief Midegah next? Loved this interview.

I confess I am not sold on the heartland theory. No mention of snow in the Book of Mormon. 20 days journey from the land of Nephi to Zarahemla suggesting that the Nephite / Lamanite civilization was very concentrated. Amalickiah was assassinated on New Year’s Eve on a night when he and his soldiers were overcome because of the heat of the day. If the Nephites followed the Hebrew calendar, New Year’s Eve would have been in mid April. The average temperature in upstate New York is about 55 degrees.

Bro. May, have you taken a closer look at the ancient peoples called the Toltecs? I’m not an expert of anthropology or archaeology; however I’ve been an student of the ancient people of meso-America, and it is belief that the Jared items could have been the Toltecs. Their history and dating correspond pretty much to the of the Book of Mormon. Forgive me I do not want to sound contradictory, but you must take a look at the Toltecs.

This connection I want to share for me is a game changer and highly supports the heartland model. It’s useful for us small timer regular guys, but even more for someone with influence. I hope both read or see this. The seas spoken of in the Book of Mormon are not oceans! The proof is in the text itself. The Nephites come for the Middle East and there when referring to large lakes they call them seas. Ex: the Red Sea, Mediterranean Sea, Dead Sea, the Sea of Galilee , etc. That same terminology was brought with them and used in American for the Great Lakes. The East Sea and west sea are not descriptions of oceans, but the actual name of the lakes. And the language is specific through out the Book of Mormon. Whenever they speak of the ocean it’s called the great waters. Or many waters. Two distinct classifications used over and over. The narrow neck of land is a land between two seas or in our language lakes.

In Alma 53 verse 5 Teancum caused the Lamanites to build their own prison. Look at the great circle in Ohio. It's slightly raised in the middle and gently slopes to a trench thats all the way around. The trench is on the inside, not the outside. This fortification is designed to keep people in. Look at the geography around the Hill Cumorah. Directly to the north is Lake Onterio. To the west is Hopewell New York (named after a Hopewell fort there) To the south are several long lakes. This is an ideal location to gain a tactical advantage over a reasonable sized army.

Does Wayne know chief David Midegah?

16:35 Willard Bean is my half great-grand uncle (I think that's technically our relation). Willard Bean is the half-brother of my great grandfather, Isaac Wall Bean (who was from George Washington Bean's third wife, Elizabeth Wall. Willard was born of his first wife, Elizabeth Baum). It's crazy to realize how few generations there are between then and now. My grandfather's (my grandfather, whom I knew well into adulthood before he passed) father must have known his half-brother Willard. He might have even been punched by him from time to time - or maybe not since there was an 8 year age difference😅

Greg i wish you would have Chief Midegah on your show.

Ive been praying for a while that we as a people would have enough faith to receive more records?? Perhaps Jaredite scriptures?

Has Wayne been in contact with Chief Midegah? Would love to see them on the same podcast.

I realize and can appreciate the fact that some folks resonate more with a particular Book of Mormon geography and some with a different one. I see this as related to the fact that some resonate more with one particular theory with regards to the creation and flood accounts in the Bible, and some with another theory. At the 49:00 marker, Greg ends the discussion with the point that there is a great divide between the Heartland model proponents and the Mesoamerican model proponents. Greg asks Wayne why this divide is there. Wayne doesn't really answer the question fully but does demonstrate part of the reason for the divide, as I see it. He also demonstrates, as does Rod Meldrum, a definite talent for being persuasive and 'down to earth' in his convictions. The part of the reason for the divide that Wayne demonstrates is that the Heartland proponents are 100% convinced that Joseph Smith knew absolutely the actual locations of Book of Mormon events and cities, etc. They also seem to be 100% convinced that their theory is correct, based on the primary idea that Joseph Smith knew these locations. Science and physical evidences tend to take a back seat, and are interpreted in such a way as to fit that primary conviction that they have. The 2 anchor points they use as part of this 100% conviction are the Hill Cumorah New York location and the Zarahemla location as being just across the river from Nauvoo. They are possibly open to other models as long as they have the same 2 anchor points of NY Hill Cumorah and Zarahemla location as noted, since they are 100% convinced of these 2 anchor points. The Mesoamerican model proponents have an entirely different approach and methodology. They don't believe that Joseph Smith or any of the other early church laters knew these exact locations, but were only making assumptions based on the limited knowledge that they had from the text and other sources. They believe that Joseph Smith likely had visions of Book of Mormon peoples but that these didn't necessarily translate into knowing the exact locations where they lived. They see Joseph's statements about "Zelph" and the "plains of the Nephites" as being interpreted as not necessarily meaning that the actual Book of Mormon events happened in what is now the USA. They use the text itself as the primary source of data rather than past statements of cherry-picked church leaders, and also are friendly to, and supportive of, mainstream science and academia, using both as part of their methodology. They are not at all 100% convinced of their model and are open to other possibilities, as long as they use a similar methodology and research approach. This huge gap in basic research methodology is the reason for the great divide, as I see it. Another point is that Heartland folks are misinterpreting the Mesoamerican model when they claim that the Mesoamerican folks say there are 2 or more Cumorahs. We only believe in 1 Cumorah, and that it was the hill where Mormon deposited most of the ancient records, which we see as very unlikely to be the same hill in NY state where Moroni buried the plates that his father Mormon gave him. We believe there is ample evidence that the hill in NY state was assumed to be the Cumorah of the Book of Mormon by early church leaders, after which it became tradition. The only major problems I see with some of the Heartland model folks that worry me are these 2 things: - That they sometimes conflate their testimony of the Book of Mormon's veracity with their geographical model. I see this as a red flag and is often a major point of contention with the Mesoamerican model folks. If the 1st presidency comes out with a statement of direct revelation on this topic, I'll listen. But they haven't, and until that time when anyone else says that they have received such a 'revelation', it sets off warning bells to many of us. - When they insinuate that folks that don't believe in their model are somehow less faithful and are not 'following what the prophets have said'. That invokes a similar reaction as noted above. I see this quite often in their rhetoric, and it always rubs me the wrong way. Part of the problem is that it is conflating revelation and doctrine that is essential to our salvation with previous church leader statements on Book of Mormon geography which is not at all essential to our salvation. Also, given the fact that current church doctrine is neutrality on this subject tells me that we need to be careful about making such claims. Frankly, I am glad there are 2 different models, in much the same way that I'm glad there are different interpretations of the creation and flood accounts of the Bible, some more science-based and some more scriptural-literalist based. If there were only the scriptural-literalist and Heartland models available, I would probably have left the church years ago when I encountered scientific evidence that contradicts those types of models, since I am a very scientifically oriented person. I can also appreciate the fact that there are many who claim they would have left the church at some point, if all we had were the more scientifically based interpretations available, without the literalist approaches like the Heartland model and young earth creationism, etc. However, I do believe that the old ideas regarding a literalist interpretation of the creation and flood accounts, and young earth creationism in general will become obsolete. In the meantime though we need to be patient and understanding of others who believe differently than we do. I believe that eventually science and our religion will be in 100% agreement, but that may not happen until after Christ's return, or until we pass to the other side, whichever occurs first for us individually. Until then, we need to learn to be able to be patient and understanding of those who might lean more one direction or the other than ourselves. I firmly believe there is a happy medium between science and religion, and that those seeming contraries can be proven without abandoning one or the other. I try to place credence on both science and religion in such a way as to make them compatible without compromising one or the other.

You need to interview Chief Midegah

The Heartland model is just out of gas. The River Sidon is a river that runs South to North. The Mississippi runs North to South. There is NO river in the U.S. that runs South to north. Also, there's NO place in the proposed Heartland geography where one can wade across the Mississippi River as was done by warriors in the second chapter of Alma.

I lived in Ohio very close to the “hopewell “ Indian mounds. The native Americans in the area claimed they did not build the mound. They said it was there when their ancestors arrived. This did not fit the prevailing paradigm so scholars attributed the mounds to native Americans anyway. Hopewell was the name of the farmer who owned the land at the time. There was never a hopewell Indian tribe, it’s all BS.

I have a lot of respect for Wayne May. What’s really great is that there are more people now getting interested in all of this evidence (including myself). I started to do some research on the ancient history of the area where I live in the southeastern United States a few years ago. Little did I know that right around the corner from where I lived at the time, I would find artifacts and evidence of habitation, back in the woods, and I began researching more as information and Artifacts , started adding up. So now I am communicating with other people who are as equally enthusiastic and serious about pursuing knowledge in this area. It has been really great speaking with people by email or phone and exchange information and getting other peoples opinions and ideas as well as being able to get some help going around obstacles and barriers that as Wayne says, our placed in our way by academia, who are quite frankly protecting their own jobs, and doing their best to stand in the way of any kind of serious book of Mormon research. That’s just my opinion. So now that I have documented, one particular site, in between field walking I am now getting other people interested but of course still have to maintain the security and integrity of the location which is hard. Anyway, I love this, and I just find that my faith in the book of Mormon, truth is boosted by every new find , whether it is made by myself or someone else. As for all the people in Central and South America, who built all those fabulous pyramids and temples carved of stone, it is my opinion and speculation that they are descended from some of the descendants of the people of Jared that were not destroyed in the great battle. I agree with Wayne on that,. I do not think they were all killed, but I do think just like the people of Nephi many years later, as a nation they were destroyed.

In the end, it doesn't really matter where the events of the BOM took place but I find the Heartland model compelling. Thanks for a great interview!

A few years ago I saw a documentary, on RU-vid, and they were discussing the evidences of the native Americans. If I remember correctly the main group started in Florida and Georgia Then spread out from there going north. Eventually the descendants of this group went south again and then into Mexico. The natives in Mexico were linked to the southeastern natives. The natives in Guatemala were said to be from Asia and their language had Hindu roots and their buildings were in the style of Hindu temples. I grew up on the Rio Grande River in Texas. I knew about the Mexican native Americans traditions of the White God coming and teaching them. I also grew up in the Church and believed what we were taught from Joseph Smith. My daughter was in 5th if 6th grade bought a book about an early American European girl being kidnapped from her colonial village by a native American tribe to replace the Native American child that has died due to the white settlers. I don’t remember the name of the book but the white girl, that grew up with the Native American tribe, wrote a book about her experiences later on in her life. The tribe had a lady teach the young white girl about their history and how to do things. The lady taught this girl that there was a Holy Man that had cone among them and he taught them how to live and treat each other. He also taught them about the vegetation and the what they could eat and what herbs and vegetation had medicinal value and what to use them for healing. I learned that the resurrected Christ had appeared on this continent to multiple groups of people in multiple places on the North American continent. I wish that I could remember the name and channel that produced the documentary about the Floridian group that had come to America in ancient times and had eventually migrated as far south as Mexico. I also wish I could remember the name of the young readers book that my daughter bought. We have moved and we gave all of her books that were in her bedroom back to her so I no longer have that book in my possession. There is archeological and linguistic evidence, done by archaeologists not members of the church, that back up what Wayne May is saying about the Heartland Hopewell group of native Americans. They even knew about the big battle that took place up in New York. Their dating of these groups also matches the Book of Mormon timelines.

I love this! Thank you so much for having Wayne May on!!

Just finished listening to this episode while driving from Kentucky back home to Georgia when the Norris Dam was mentioned. Looked at GPS and it was only a couple minutes from us, so we took a quick detour and are now here at the dam checking it out. Super interesting place that looks like an ideal place to have a settlement prior to the flooding of the area behind the dam.

Does Wayne still thinks the Kinderhook plates are real?

Anybody else have seen the Member that us half indean, and hugh up in tribe, and says alot , like his tribes lodge ceremony is almost identical to the temple ceremony. Also says they knkw they come from the middle east, on ships

Elizabeth Baum married George Washington Bean. They were the parents of Willard Bean (Fighting Preacher). I know this from my own family history and FamilySearch…

It is obvious to me the BoM happened in the heartland.

I am DEFINITELy interested in getting that copy of Elizabeth Baum's journal on the large boned Jaredites at Nauvoo and the picture of the burial sites of the Adena men buried like spokes of a wheel. How can I get copies of that info. Greg?