Archery | Why Weren't Repeating Bows Used? 

I concur with everything you said. Apart from being useful as an emergency weapon against intruders there would have been little use for this back then. But times have changed, now we shoot bows for recreational purposes. We now want fun, and that is what I have designed this for. I think the IGK has a much better chance to change archery history in the 21st century than in the 13th century. Oh, and I did a ton of work on repeating crossbows. The „Adder“ that will hit the market this December will be very popular I think.

Possible markets: - Spec-ops agents - Civilians and hunters - Isekai protagonists

the theory is that joerg is an avatar of a ancient war god that come on earth to amaze us with his divine warfare

Even in firearms, there was a time when generals didn't want to issue repeating rifles or magazines to line troops because they felt that soldiers would waste a lot of bullets.

One scenario where such a bow would've been useful would be hunting. You load the bow before you head out, and if you miss one shot you can quickly shoot again.

You have a point, but counterpoint: Moar Dakka!

the two era of this chanel : The Pre-Jörg era The Post-Jörg era

I think you're addicted to this. And so am I.

This is created by JoergSprave only with one purpose: FUN. HAHAHA.

I think one way it would be useful is what Joerg alluded to in his video, sort of an "emergency bow" that a guard could have by their bed. No need to grab arrows and try to nock quickly while just being awoken by a sudden attack. A couple dozen soldiers running out with 4 quick shots each could make a difference while the camp gathers itself to respond.

Sensei can't get enough of this, and why not. I mean having this creative masterpiece really feels wonderful. Joergsprave is a creative genius man.

I love the amount of respect Joerg is getting from the medieval/historical community on yt. His invention is indeed genius and shows how this community is easily one of the most nontoxic on this website.

Consider that every nation all over the world, invested in developing early firearms, which were initially very slow, unreliable, and inaccurate instead of finding ways to increase the rate of fire of battle proven, reliable and accurate bows :D. Convenience is underestimated historically :P.

I've been a fan of @JoergSprave for years & thanks to these reviews of the IGK I'm now a fan of yours! I've always enjoyed seeing his creations (and all of their features "HAHAHA") & your reviews of not just how fun it is to shoot but also the pros and cons of its potential tactical applications are a testament to both his ingenuity & craftsmanship, as well as your knowledge & skills in archery. Thanks for the great content, I'm off to catch up on your other videos that I never knew existed till now lol

with all the attributes Jorge built into the Fenris.. with the trigger handle installed while in a hunting situation where your at full draw waiting for the shot or the animal to relax.. that alone is an invaluable asset in the hunting world.. as is equally fast follow-up shots... god bless Jorge!!!

This was a great collaborative series. :) Love both of you, and I really hope that Joerg's and NUsensei's channels both grew a lot from this.

I have to wonder how an historic bowstring would hold up to sliding through that wooden slot.

I can see it as being used along side the crossbow for militia and it might even be used slightly more than some low powered crossbows considering the speed The IGK would ultimately be more useful for field combat but not against heavily armored hostile but against light troops But in sieges crossbow would still be more preferred

I don't think it will be useful on horseback. BUT, if you're in a watchtower guarding a gate, being able to shoot 4 arrows at a target without moving your bow to load might give an accuracy advantage.

Awesome weapon mate 😁.love how your doing more trad stuff 👍

ohhh man imagine if you could get to try more of Herr Sprave's creations!

so when ever you wanted to charge enough energy, that will be super tiring and slow? i guess that's why we invented gun......

Some points to address those concerns. The magazine can be made larger with more time and more engineering. Possibly from a capacity of 4 bolts, to maybe 8 or even 10 bolts. Second, would it be possible to make such a device with detachable magazines? You heard me correctly. Create the device so that the fixture that connects with the riser is fixed in place, but that only serves as an attachment point. Behind that would be where the magazine clicks and locks into. That way once each magazine is expended, you can simply unlatch the magazine, and pop on a fresh one. One could probably carry 5 or 6 magazines with 8 bolts each. That would be around 40 shots that can mostly be shot one after another. Also don't forget: Reducing the time it takes to load a new shot means more time available to aim at your target. So that rapid availability doesn't always need to translate into a faster rate of fire, but more time to aim, and less body movements needed for each subsequent shot.

Great channel, much expertise and interesting to watch. Greetings from Germany!

I learned a lot watching your videos. Big fan.

I think you are severly underestimating one factor for this. If crossbows had trigger mechanisms which weren't exactly the cheapest, especially in the medieval ages. The fact that this requires a block of wood and an arrow is such a mindboggling economic advantage for whoever uses this. This coupled with the fact that it's easy to use means that it's easier to field a large militia with ranged weapons. The main disadvantage I see is the lack of power on this model, but maybe that could be improved.

hey where do i get one of these

I’d like to see the magazine on the opposite side, double capacity, and have a slot to move the spring off to one side for a fistful of arrows kinda reload!, spring could be pinned to be able to rotate and still keep tension !?

You seemed to be able to load it quicker in the second section with the car behind, how quick is it to load and shot just one arrow then repeat as you would with a normal bow ?

He can't stop shooting it 🤣🤣🤣nice job Jorge 👏🏾👏🏾👏🏾😁

Medieval warfare seems to have happened at a 4 ranges: Artillery, Ranged (Bows and Crossbows), Standoff, and Melee. Standoff range refers to the 50-30 meters when an enemy is charging into melee, and whole loads of weapons have been developed to hit the enemy at standoff range e.g. Roman pilae, Frankish throwing axes. Winston Churchill describes in his account of the Afghan wars the British camp being charged at night by Afghan warriors using swords and shields. The British were equipped with the new Lee-Enfield magazine repeating rifles, which improved on the previous Martini-Henry rifle by having a magazine that could be tapped into at standoff range. As the Afghans charged, the British fired single shots as they came in, right up until standoff range. At that point, the troops were ordered "five rounds rapid" and emptied their magazines into the charge at close range, which in pretty much every case stopped the charge cold. I don't know if it would be worth the extra cost, but having the ability to dump 6 arrows per archer into a charging enemy at close range is certainly interesting. Of course, even if this device existed the context to develop the sort of drill I'm describing probably wouldn't have existed.

Hi Nu Sensei, what if it is treated like a Vajra from turkish archery?

Where can i shopping this?

How about making a replacible clip for this system

Hi bro i like to buy this magazine can you give me any link

Would the string wear out faster too chafing against the wood with prolonged use

The rail in which the string runs is off centre, so as the string is released as it moves to rest position, it must be rubbing the wood of the guide rail. Have you noticed much string degredation at all?

His six shot long bow version of this is absolutely lethal and accurate.

I want to buy this arrow magazine. Where can I buy it?

I want one! Where can I get one?

Do you think something like this may have existed historically, perhaps soley for recreation and we just don't have records of it? People like gimmicks and novelty. I could see a medieval bowyer selling something like this as a curiosity or a gimmick.

Cool Hoodie, where can i buy it?

Very good NuSensei

Advantages In a military setting: #1 higher rate of fire #2 dont need to take view off target to knock #3 can be proficiently operated by untrained archers #4 arrows cannot be shot by opponents with normal bow #5 cheaper to manufacture than crossbows

I believe the IGK is perhaps the perfect training tool. It promotes full draw fire. It clicks when properly drawn. It is quick and easy to reload. The faster shooting and higher capacity means less time between shots, and more instant gratification. And by the looks of it it is just fun to do, so for anyone looking to start archery but not be slowed down by some of the intricacies of it, the IGK is just the perfect tool to teach people how fun archery CAN be. Whether they want to stop practicing or keep using the IGK or move on to some more technical bows it's up to them.

Joerg gave you your new favorite toy, didn’t he? :)

It looks like so much fun!

Greetings from Germany. Interesting how you comment and mirror Joerg Spraves invention. Well done, good job!

Thank You for Your Video.

What is this tools name?

May have been useful for guards protecting important persons. At close range it seems it would be very effective to take down one or two assailants very fast. I wonder if it was possible for Joerg to create a speed loading system, similar to revolvers. Maybe even revolving arrow magazine; build a mechanism when the string is drawn, arrow is pushed into chamber from revolver, once it's released next arrow rotate into place. Something giving tension to the revolver to make it want to turn. The arrow could be what keeps it from turning, so once fired, it would spin to the next arrow which would stop it. I wonder if a custom arrow with spring loaded fletching would be possible to keep it lower profile too.

You can't keep a traditional bow strung because it would loose strength and break in no more than a few days. So if a burglar broke in, you have to string this up, taking a considerable time. So, this as a home defense weapon is only viable with modern technology. The best bow for home defense back then would probably be a weaker hunting bow. A warrior can shoot quite fast with one, as Lars demonstrated, and a burglar is would not be wearing armor, so a lower poundage bow would suffice.

I think this would be great for a Wall/Tower defense during a siege of a stronghold or castle.

Mass production is taken for granted this day in age. Before the industrial revolution, there were rigorously trained individuals who performed the art of producing the implements of war. Central planning was required in order to produce items of similar size and shape, but the exact reproductions of today weren't quite possible. Mass producing an item with such precision was always difficult and near impossible before the industrial revolution.

you can make a turn leaver to make the spring come up and down quickly and drop all the arrows at once,

The main advantages I see are that it is that you don't have to spend as much time reacquiring a your target between and that shot placement can be fairly consistent, because you didn't have to move the bow to reload between those shots. The main disadvantages are the obvious reload delay and the shorter ammo tends to have a bit less range from what I've seen of testing.

I mean, who doesn't love this bow?

Really cool and accurate video.

what about having the spring on an unlockable axle so you can slide a clipped together bundle of X arrows into the magazine stripperclip style. Or maybe have a special bow with a connection to clip the magazine assembly into place for quick release and exchange as a whole.

I wonder if it’s easier to shoot on horse back with this compared to standard bow

Would it be advantageous as a horse bow, where drawing arrows would (possibly) be trickier?

I like the rapid fire of your videos lately.

I could see it used right before a battle lob a bunch of arrows towards the enemy and then switch it out for a reg one where precision counts just what I think(thought about it some more same theory but have regular archers count to 5 or somthing then they can take care of the reload maybe like a 20 count or somthing and then have the repeaters shoot again and have reg archers hold off a bit and rinse and repeat similar to what something the army would do with the m249 use a 3 round burst and then have a second m249 use a 3 round burst) once again just throwing my 2 cents out is all lol

One inherent limitation I see from its design is that you can only use arrows with 2 fins on them. The problem with this is that it means the arrows/bolts will have a lack of long range stability, making it only a weapon for close range. I guess that goes in line with your earlier concept of an 'assault bow'. One way I can see how this would be used historically is for horse archers. A very common tactic for horse archers is to run up fairly close to the enemy's formation, shoot in a number of arrows, and run out of range again. I know that Korean Horse archers had specialized arrows for this purpose(대우전), which has a structure of only two fins that are larger than normal, making them easier to load on the string and having an ideal short range ballistic while terrible long range ballistics. If they used this bow for that purpose, they can rapidly shoot in a magazines worth of arrows, retreat back, reload, and then repeat.

Castle defense. The ladders hit the walls and enemy begin to climb. Archer can lean out from cover and quickly let loose several arrows, where time is very critical to prevent a breach and also not spending time out of cover nocking arrows keeps him safer. Archer leans back into cover and sets down the bow and grabs a second bow, leans out and shoots some more. First bow is picked up by a squire, servant, or some other untrained person (or a melee fighter waiting for enemy troops to scale the wall) and reloaded , ready for the trained archer to grab. And so the cycle goes.

THIS VIDEO IS OUTDATED!!! Joerg made a whole new version. Also the advantage with this weapon is that your can field larger numbers if archers and guerilla warfare.

Watching this after he created an assisted pull, meaning drawing heavier bows is a lot easier. Does this change your opinion?

A guard that suddenly need to deal with a crowd.

I'm thinking that if they had 2 of the bows, had a dedicated firer and reloader on the 2nd bow, it might work. It'll be harder to tell if the rapid-fire bow + reloader would be faster than 2 crossbowmen. Maybe 2 crossbowmen and 1 reloader for both?

Several years ago I thought about a fast firing vertical crossbow with a simple wrought iron slider that could allow the bow to be cocked by putting the end of the crossbow on the ground, locking the bow string to the trigger mechanism and then sliding the bow down with your foot to lock, allowing the weight of the archers body to do the work. Somewhat like a Greek gastropedes. Such an approach could allow for quite a heavy bow to be used without tiring out the archer and without a separate cocking mechanism. Then I saw JoergSprave's videos, especially his more advanced sliding "instant Legolas" designs. Perhaps combining the slider with a foot rest to cock the thing might be advantageous. True it wouldn't be as fast firing as Joerg's designs but the magazine would eliminate the time consuming step of setting the arrow on a cocked crossbow. And untrained troops could quickly learn how to use it.

RU-vid is boosting Joergs video for obvious reasons >:)

Im a proud subscriber of JoergSprave

What about close combat? You can field large numbers of soldiers armed with automatic crossbows as an engagement weapon much like how the Romans equipped their infantry with Pila's. The Pila was used before formations closed in for melee. The Pila thrown would impale shields making them useless or right out injure or kill enemies. What if infantry was equipped with these bows that they used before they go to their sword or spears? Combine the automatic bows with stripper clips for bolts and you got a rapid fire close range weapon. How much damage would a soldier be able to inflict before he's forced to use his melee weapon? For home defense yes that's a deadly weapon vs anything other then a real gun.

And then basically every complaint was addressed by his addition of the pump-action mechanism, as well as the clip he created for the mini version which could be scaled up.

Nu Sama!! Try to use High draw power with a Chronograph (if possible) to test the Speed and efficiency!

I have an idea for a period correct, technologically speaking, anti-aircraft turret sort of contraption. Use pedal power to spin a flywheel. The flywheel could control rotation, and elevation, as well as have the draw mechanism for a heavy crossbow, or ballista. Use a feeding system similar to the one shown. It could be mounted vertically, since it's a crossbow, and there could potentially be a hopper style loading system. Simply feed arrows or bolts into the hopper, and have a person, or team, keeping the flywheel spinning.

Hello sir, i do not know you nor nothing about bows, im a Joerg Fan :) and i do weapons in joerg style. but i have always been interested in Swords & Bows. so im your new subscriber! what do you think about The use of a sight on top of the wood structure (yes, a bow with a sight, there is not much other chances to do such things) and the use of special bolts like really long ones.

Do you think it could be used on an 80 pound+ bow or not?

I think addition of grove at the end of the magazine would definitely increase its usability. Just imagine, you have strong +-100 lbs bow. You draw it, and then insert string into a grove for it to rest. Not only your accuracy increases but you don't use that much strength for aiming. With loading speed. I have to disagree. I tried to make it myself. And using 20lbs bow, normally reloading(with or without magazine) speed with magazine was faster. I think mainly because you don't need to switch your actions(from shooting to reloading and vice-versa). With magazine, you can continue to reload, and after reloading you can only shoot without any switch in your actions. Main issues to my understanding are inability to shoot without drawing a bow to full length(So when using strong bow you loose ability to shoot weaker shots, which given situation sometimes are needed) and second issue is inability to use when you are not using correct form. For example when you are on horse, in a woods crouching. Basically it is clunky. Given that they lacked ability to make magazines, I think they simply couldn't use this kind of tool because they couldn't create it(even Chinese repeating crossbow's magazine was full of limits because it only used gravity, so when you turned it sideways, bolts would fall out)

From a historical perspective, I think these would have been utilized by commoners and militias who had been conscripted but weren't professional, trained soldiers. Especially from a defense perspective, even a small number of unskilled archers would be devasting firing from atop or inside a castle or fort. I could also see the smaller crossbow style versions being a highly effective sidearm for infantry and cavalry.

The low draw weight and rapid fire makes it better for close quarters combat like raiding or urban village warfare. Speed is more important in a stand off situation and the low draw weight isn't too bad since distance isn't a big factor.

Why would volume of fire not be primary when shooting a large body of troops

Safer than a Tong-Ah if its able to load a wider range of arrow sizes than the bows draw length would normally dictate?

Not sure I only just found this, so I apologize for the late comment. Like all things in combat, the right tool used the right way. I would think the power limitation remains valid with the magazine or not. You can only pull back so many times before your body can't do another. With the magazine, if you need 2-4 quick shots, you in theory would have them. Or you wouldn't have to keep it held on the string the entire time until you're ready to fire (not pulled back, just held in place on the string). Once you are, you just go through the motions of aim, pull, loose. An entire regiment of burst fire could be enough to intimidate a charge, and while they're scattered and trying to figure out what just happened, the trained and practiced archers are reloading, probably quite quickly if they've had any time to practice. The limited training is I think the highlight of this technology. It take A LOT of practice for an archer to achieve "effective", much less "useful" in combat. With this, that training need drops dramatically, which for a low budget/manpower nation could mean more archers that require significantly less training/practice time. You mention the cross bow, but those are notoriously hard to cock. True some could punch through armor (I think), but you're talking about a weapon that takes a special method to cock, which takes time. So back to that low budget/manpower nation, you could have all three. 1) You have your standard archers who have put in the time to be experts. 2) You have archers with this tech who basically have the exact same stopping power in their weapon but without the extensive training. (Alternately, you could have crossbows that are no harder to pull than a bow.) 3) You have the true crossbow that has that extra hard stopping power, but takes longer to cock each shot. The versatility of the bow is a factor that is hard to argue against. I could be wrong, but I understand some archers would use their long bows like a staff if engaged up close. Not every time, and most had an arming sword instead, but the option was there, and wouldn't be with this thing. I think this will pop up in fantasy stories, and I don't think that would be so bad. First it looks cool, which is enough for most. But those who think it all the way through could really build interesting stories, worlds, and tactics around the technology. I know I've got my brain working with where and how it would indeed be useful.

I think you should consider the skirmish formation which indeed did use burst fire. For example this was the main advantage of horse archers and chariots. Basically the horses or chariots ran in a circular or oval and fired their weapons at the moment they were nearer the enemy and rested/reloaded as their mounts were on the retreating part of their formation, the ranks behind them then taking their shots as they followed..This would give a continuous 4x Even some light foot formations historically used a skirmish formation for missile fire. In any of these cases the repeating bow you designed would hold distinct advantages! Each ranks "volley" being quadrupled! Very useful indeed. The total firepower of a given unit massively increased without adding fatigue

Completely agree with you and in truth maybe this could have been something maybe for closer quarters combat as then the bow draw weight can be lower. This design is based on many engineering feats in firearms development so in truth as designed this wasn’t in the minds of people back then. But I do love to watch it work and with more updated materials it can be improved immensely. The genius of this is amazing and I do think it’s going to be a hit across the world soon!

I like that you mentioned how this could be used by militia and I agree. The ease at which it can apparently be used means that if you strapped that thing onto a bunch of light draw weight bows (50-70 lbs) you could create a decently armed militia force either in a pinch or to supplement a core of professional archers in a real army. An archer's weakest point is up close and personal, hence English longbowmen were issued falchions or other swords. Imagine if for every longbowman there were two or three IGK armed light bowmen to serve as skirmishers, flank guards, and longbowmen protectors. Their usefulness would be relegated to close range fighting, possibly even in urban settings. I know that English law in the Hundred Years' War required all free men of a certain age to own and be proficient with longbows, so this is a moot point, but other countries weren't so adamant; it just needed the right setting to flourish. On top of that, IGKs might be a cheaper, more manageable alternative to crossbows; they don't need to be huge things that require a guy to lay down and use his whole body to cock nor do they need to be made of steel to make shorter, more powerful bows. Crossbows were the weapon of the professional mercenary and soldier/guard; this could make for a peasant's equivalent. Again, it's all about the right setting and circumstances. Oh, and I'm pretty sure that raiders would love this for a lightning attack.

Thats a sweet hoodie. Where does one get himself one of those?

i think this were to be use during war, it would be more useful in a defence situation, like when a whole line or archers starts launching arrows at incoming enemies. traditionally, say that can launch 6 arrow with in X amount of time, thats grabbing the arrow from quiver, nock it, draw, release, repeat. now they just eliminated time to take arrow out of the quiver, and nocking it, basicly reduced half the procedure, so more arrow can be shoot with in a even shorter period of time frame, multiply that by 100, that is a crazy amount of arrow flying towards enemy, more damage, more coverage. reloading is rather quick too, so with 2 to 3 teams of archers taking turns on shooting, the over all effectiveness compare to traditional ways would be much much greater.

This is a good bridge between a normal bow and a crossbow. It can have the ease of use of a crossbow and the Speed (Even if you don't speed shoot you can shoot four and reload four more and shoot them in less time than many crossbows. Especially the stronger ones.) and accuracy of a bow. Plus it is likely cheaper and easier to make then a crossbow. Also it would be like the repeating crossbow but can have more power (power is set but bow used and archers ability to draw. Meaning you can have an 80 to 120 pound repeating bow). And if you come up with some kind of universal attachment method then it can be used with any bow (of an approximate set draw length). This means if one bow breaks just remove it and attach it to another, personal bows enemy bows you name it it can be attached to and used by your people.

From a Warfare perspective Archers don't do direct fire that often but instead use indirect fire over several hundred meters, usually over their own lines, because you don't get hundreds of men into position before your archers get overrun when the enemy is charging at you. Which means most of the time you gonna lob arrows. And you also don't even need to start with anything below 60 pounds when you fire at armed targets. And how little an 60ish pound bow does to armor can be seen on Trands channel, where he tried them on steelplates, helmets and chainmail. There could be some use in horse archery, but even then a rate of fire of 3 seconds should be more than enough to do passing runs at the enemy line, and you are not going to do that rapid fire on a horse either, with a weapon grade bow. That leaves only hunting and... well except for Emus... animals are not actually known to fight back in force.... also for home defense... i'd use a sword or an axe.. maybe with a shield. You can stand in a doorframe and be relatively safe to be flanked... and if they have archers, just don't go outside. A sword or an axe is so much less maintenance and your assailant doesn't need to do you the curtsey to let you string your bow... and you are surely not going to let your bow rest strung on a wall year around.

I can see it's use in horseback combat where you're rushing up to the enemy, getting off a few shots, and galloping away. That's one place where rapid fire and not having to manipulate arrows on a bouncing horse may have had a positive effect, possibly.

There is actually no speed advantage, because the time it takes to reload one arrow into the mag is longer than it takes to load one arrow in normal shooting, so overall you shoot slower than normal shooting. Another big problem is that there is an optimal arrow weight for a given bow strength, so a full sized arrow is actually optimal for most war bows, not short bolts.

I'm pretty quick with a 40 lb., bringing it to full draw, I don't know about greater draw weights, however.

Don't forget the difference in ammunition. This bow shoots bolts and not arrows. Bolts are cheaper and easier to manufacture than arrows and with wooden vanes you can keep them for a hundred years in a castle storage, while normal arrows may have warped or had their fletching eaten away by mites or mice. :) I think this would've been a good weapon for castle defense. :)

Well this looks like one of the best exemplars of a Sassainian Archery device from the 3rd to 7th centuries - the Panjagan (five device). No one is at all sure quite what or how this worked other than it allowed the mounted archer to fire 5 smaller arrows (small enough to require an arrow guide) eith er all at once OR equally likely very rapidly. This device was an at times key element in Sassinad "shower" shooting - very rapid shooting by stationery or "slowly" moving dense cavalry. The techniques were to disrupt infantry or attack mounted formations making them vulnerable to being shattered by a determined charge.

The ability to shoot short arrows would be an advantage.

Bird hunting device for nobility

This bow will definitely be useful. The main reason why the Tokugawa switched to rifles from bows is because it takes less skill to shoot it than bows. the same principle can be applied here, though not to the same efficiency as the rifles.

Muskets took a long time to load and they still used them