The most common fact for archers - and perhaps the most commonly asked question by non-archers. Why shouldn't you dry fire? === Follow me on Facebook: / nusensei
The sticky thing about this is that if you see it in the eyes of someone inexperienced to archery, dry-firing a bow is a very intuitive thing to do: - When people see things they want to interact with them. Pets, cars, bows, whatever it is, it's common to acknowledge it. - It's counterintuitive that dry firing will hurt a bow. Unless you're a physicist, you're not going to think about energy transferring to the arrow in a bow shot. You're going to be thinking: "The string snaps just fine with an arrow in it. It'll snap equally fine with no arrow in it." - Finally, if there's one thing everyone knows about bows it's that they take strength to draw, so most everyone (men especially) will be tempted to do a mock draw. It's the same as seeing a punching bag or pullup bar at someone's house. So yeah, it's usually a good rule of thumb that if somebody's going to be around a bow, this is literally the FIRST thing to say to them.
Yeah it's not intuitive that a dry fire would cause as much damage as it can/does. You'd think the difference in force between a dry fire and an arrow fire is negligible considering arrows really don't weight that much. Get in to the math on it though and you will see the difference is enough to cause the damage warned about.
When you draw a proper bow, that thought should disappear pretty quickly as you physically realise the amount of energy you've just charged and are about to release.
@@stoutlager6325 ey dude, i don't even know why should we dont dry fire before. And after i have, then i think its just simple reason. Ok, but for everyone who haven't known it before they don't
I know absolutely nothing about archery i just looked up "why shouldn't you dry fire a bow" (because i was curious) and this was the first video. You answered my question, and all follow up questions so thank you :)
Same ! I just learned it from elsewhere, and I just kind of looked it up, even though I've never touched a bow in my life. Before that, if you handed me a bow I would have dry fired it within 5 seconds.
Had the bow set up at a pro shop. It performed just fine ru-vid.comUgkxQEKUoxLWwayEDZR0NKB-5limn4MBU-2L . And I would say this is a good starting now that I could pass down to my son when he is older.But the package was missing the release and a nock was missing from one arrow.Dealing with customer support was terrible. They suggested I buy a new release rather than correct their own quality control issue because it’s to expensive for the. to ship it out from China.Update: manufacturer got back to me and resolved the issue. I retract the above statement.
I was the archery technician for the CW promo short "Super Hero Fight Club" a few years ago. All of the arrows are CGI, so everyone dry-fires every time. Oliver's bow (an Oneida Kestrel) is cranked out to the lowest weight they can get it to, about 18 pounds. On the show, they have about a dozen identical bows, so when one blows up they just grab another, but for this shoot we only had one. I had to put it back together several times; usually we got about a dozen shots off before it blew up. Sometimes pieces flew off, but most often the cables just derailed. (The Kestrel is a fascinating bow, kind of a recurve-compound hybrid, and I'd love to see your thoughts on it.) The Dark Archer's compound bow had the cams locked down with screws and was strung with elastic shock cord, so it was no problem. I got to have a nice two-day case study of the effects of repeated dry-firing and got pretty good at reassembling the Kestrel.
This happened to the bow shot by Legolas in LOTR, at the end of the last shoot his bow snapped in real life as the arrows were CGI, every shot was dry fired throughout the trilogy with arrows added in post-production.
WOW really interesting information, I watched a lot of the series, I hadn't thought about that, which reminds me that at the end of LOTR Orlando Bloom's arc was broken, maybe for the same reason
Thanks for the explanation.I've never touched a bow in my life, and probably would have foolishly dry fired one if I ever picked one up. I'll know better now. It never crossed my mind that it could actually damage the bow, or be so dangerous.
Had this happen to me yesterday with a friend who shoots a compound bow. I was genuinely shocked because I watched him do it on PURPOSE! I would've let it slide if it had been an accident but aparentaly it was just his "practice shot". I'll never hand off my bow again , put a splinter in my old bow :'(
I've only let a novice/inexperienced archer handle my Hoyt HPX setup once and it was a close friend. Generally, no one touches it except me and my coach. The anxiety of someone potentially destroying $2500+ of equipment is worse than me potentially being perceived as being uptight or rude by refusing to let someone touch my bow. I'd much prefer the later. In my opinion, a high end Olympic recurve bow is like a sexy imported sports car. If you wouldn't let a new driver operate your Ferari, you shouldn't be letting a novice archer touch your Olympic recurve.
@@BothHands1 I was being a troll, why you tripping lady? Can't a man enjoy a good old moment of internet buffoonery with catching a case over it, you JERK! 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
There was a man who makes goat horn bows and for years he thought that the bone was strong enough that it would never crack so he dry fired almost every bow he made until one day it cracked right along the glue line and the lower limb came up and smacked him right between the eyes I guess he was right the bone didnt crack. It was the glue holding the limbs together but long story short he learned how bad it actually was.
The real problem at hand is that most people have no idea how kinetic energy works. Leads to problems not just with bows, but with a freakin ton of other problems.
Physics in general is lost on most people; this is why you have people that think we haven't been in space because "propulsion doesn't work in a vacuum there's nothing for it to push against." Also people that think that there is "no gravity in space" once you get a hundred miles or so off the the ground just all of a sudden it's gone.
I blame the media depicting things wrongs. Like how the sun is always yellow in TV shows, movies, and video games set in space, when its actually white, and if you want to get really technical its actually green if anything..
I'm well versed in physics, but before having this crucial piece of information I would have thought that because arrows are so light, bows only transferred a small amount of energy into the arrow and that the rest of it would be absorbed by the shooter's arm. I was wrong.
I knew about strings derailing or coming off the notches of the limbs, I did not know the bow could explode into a fiberglass bomb. Good info. Thanks :) Bows should be treated like firearms, Never leave them unattended and never let an inexperienced person with no knowledge of the safety rules pick it up without the owners supervision. Too many people treat bows and crossbow like toys :(
DefZen343 exactly! When someone asks me about my compounds and wants to draw it I show them how to do it and tell them to not let go of the string! Not had a dry fire yet as a result (partly cause the draw weight is too high for my guests) except by accident...which was years ago now.
I was walking down to grab arrows once and an arrow landed right beside me. Looked back saw this old guy looking at the target loading another arrow. Yelled cease fire so god damn loud the instructors came out of their office.... rest assured, the man was kicked out of the range
@@abovenbeyond2826 They walked to the target to retrieve thier arrows after shooting. Someone else fired an arrow down range while they were doing so. In other words someone shot an arrow at them.
Some people are haunted by movies, ghost stories, or scary experiences at night. I'm haunted by the time I went to my grandparents house. I brought a couple of friends and we decided to shoot some arrows. Long story short, I have my own compound bow that I use for hunting, so I used that. My buddies used my grandmother's cheepo fiberglass recurve bows. One guy dry fired the recurve and I have had nightmares ever since...
Thanks for the information. I've been to a archery club twice at the moment, but instructor never told me not to dry fire a bow. Last saturday I tried a 55 pound traditional, luckily I was able to draw it and shoot and the idea to dry fire it never crossed my mind. I'm repeating myself, but thanks for this information once again.
i bought a crossbow not to long ago had my mate come around cause he wanted to try it to see what it was like. first thing he did picked it up cocked it then straight went to dry fire it for that practice shot. i stopped him just in time and i had to be blunt i said straight up u will fuck my bow up and take your eye out. he thought i was redicoulous and went to do it again so i took it off him sat him down for an hour about how serious it was and then after all that he kinda realised maybe it is dangerous to dry fire. begginers really have zero clue about it.
It's more likely he got bored after an hour and lost interest... People are visual, it would've been easier to show him a few videos of dry fires like this one did.
My grandfather has a compound bow, i remember i once found it and pulled the string but i never throught of releasing. Mostly because I was afraid the string would hit my forearm on its way back. Now I know i could have lost an eye there...
I love the passion in this video. In my first class the instructor went over techniques and inevitably someone tries to dry fire and boy did we get the gentle firm warning to never do it again...and to never even pick up a bow while others are shooting! Why I can giggle at your passion.
To illuminate it from a layman perspective (mine own) bows really look more sturdy and not as powerful as they are. It (dry fire) seems like something that's 'technically' should not be done, but extremely rarely leading to any kind of problems. However, seeing that even a 20 pound bow can crack itself due to dry fire.... really makes me concede the point that I was wrong about it.
I like your videos you're putting up man you giving us a lot of good information and everytime I watch your video I want to go get my takedown for person like me who's never picked up this sport these videos are really helpful so when I get mine
I strongly recommend not dry-firing a bow! But that's just a lead-in to the fact that I have a cool looking scar from a dry fire. I was testing a release aid and it failed, dry-firing my compound bow about 22 years ago. Because I wasn't expecting the bow to fire, I wasn't drawing with the proper form and the string fired into my arm. The string and nock locator + string vibration tore a large patch (3x1 inches) of skin off of my arm. I have a nice scar in the shape of a standing wave-form on my arm, to this day and was still pulling bowstring out of my arm months later. Fortunately, the bow was not damaged and I went to a 3 day long 3D archery tournament the next day and won the tournament in the under-18 division.
I know you kinda explained it but it still astounds me that dry firing it could cause that much damage. I'm more interested in the physics behind how a few ounces makes enough of a difference in the energy split between the arrow and the bow. I come from a firearms background so dry firing isn't recommended for them either, but it's not like the gun is going to explode if you do. It would take a lot of dry firing to eventually wear it down to cause damage.
You explain the concepts so perfectly. I'm not an archer, just someone interested in it but I never knew why do the archers make such a fuss about dry fires and had I been into archery ranges a couple times, I think I wouldn't have listened to this specific advice. Your video makes it so damn clear just WHY the hell is it such a big no-no. Thanks for this instructional :)
I just got a bow last night and I am SUPER new to archery... I also DEFINITELY dry fired more than a few times... I didn't know it was bad and I'm glad no damage happened... haha thanks for the infoooo
Jesse MacAleese I’ve never dry fired lol XD The only reason I’m doing archery is because of school. In PE freshman have to do archery. It’s fun. If it weren’t for school I would have never even tried. I’m too scared. I’m scared of everything lol
When my father bought me my first bow, him and my uncle engrained it so strongly into me that ive never dry fired, I consider myself a bit lucky as when I was younger I pulled the string back alot with no arrow but never let go, hoping to avoid it ever happening entirely.
As soon as I was told that you should never dry fire, I was able to realize why due to my knowledge of physics. However, I still didn't know that you should never dry fire until I was told so. The reason being that even though I have the physics knowledge to figure out what happens when you fire with, respective without, an arrow, it didn't matter since I didn't think about it.
I also thought that I have enough physics knowledge to understand bows mechanic. Untill I read some materials science work on the bows around 5 years ago. AFAIK, the scientists were still struggling with some of the theoretical formulas at the time. It's even more complicated than it looks at first.
I just got my first bow, a samick sage recurve, and I KNEW not to dry fire. While getting ready to fire the bow I did it anyway without thinking. I destroyed my bowstring and stripped 2 inches of fiberglass off the inside of my top limb. I feel like a fool on wheels. Valuable lesson.
Another point that could make it easier to understand is that in modern compound bows the energy conversion efficiency is insanely high. In one study they measured energy stored at 73.7 J, and the released energy at 71 J. So only 4% lost on friction and other forces, 96% of the energy you generate by pulling is used to propel the arrow. Now imagine not 4% of the force, but all 100% going into your bows deformation. Ouch. P.S. the study mentions that even simple wooden bows had an efficiency of 80%(it says 20% lost on internal friction, which depends on the type of a tree used) which is still impressive. For comparison, cars gasoline engine has efficiency of 18-20%, Tesla's electric motor had 93%, and later models (starting from model 3) have 97%.
It happens, how did the bow fair? I know some bows can take it and you are fine while others require extensive repairs. I was just shooting a couple of weeks ago and the guy shooting in the lane next to my wife wasn't paying attention and dry fired his bow thinking he has loaded an arrow. Just completely inattentive; his bow blew up. It ruined the string and cables with many of the strands splitting, both of his cams bent at 90 degrees. I got hit with his peep that flew off the bow it was a $400 mistake easily to replace the parts. I can't imagine what my bow would do if I dry fired at 60# and 30" draw length that shoots @ 340+ fps. I would probably have to buy a new bow if I dry fired.
I recently took an interest in archery, Im so glad I found your videos before I spend my money and destroy my bow, this is something i could have easily done myself.
That was useful. I'm considering getting into archery and I would buy my bow online, cause I don't know anyone who's doing it. I think that I might've dry fired it just to get a feel for what to expect with an arrow. I can't imagine that I would've seen anything wrong with it. So thanks very much for that knowledge! :)
I have a small 15# compound bow that I shot when I was younger. When ever I go camping with my only friend who is also an archer I bring it out just so we can laugh when the old arrows won't even enter the target. My dad at one point actually loosened the string so it doesn't even really have any tension when the bow is just sitting there. It's just a fun little bow to shoot and see how far you can stand back before the arrow doesn't make it to the target. One time I had a group of friends over and we were just chilling in my garage. The other archer saw the tiny bow sitting on top of a shelf and I got it down just for fun. No arrows were to be shot as even though it probably couldn't hurt a fly or a wall it's still treated with the respect of a weapon. Another person in the group asked to see it and before I could stop him he pulled back and dry fired it. That was the end of looking at the tiny bow and now I know not to let that guy hold my 50 year old recurve.
I have been dry firing my Composite Recurve for a while without knowing about these dangers. It's scary to know that I could of been seriously injured.
My Hoyt Raider vintage bow which is very valuable for me, was dryfired twice in past by my friends(the nock did not snap onto the string). "Nothing happend" but awareness that there are potentially some microcracks in the limbs, it tormented me in a long time, but since then hundreds shots were fired and is still fine. So i hope it holds up.
in camp as a kid, the very first thing they told us is to never dry fire a bow, best case scenario you potentially mess up the equipment, worst case scenario you end up full of fiberglass shards. one of the contexts in which i think it's a good idea to scare the shit out of children
I don't understand the impulse people have to dry-fire. Do they not feel the energy of what they are doing as they draw the bow? I guess with a light bow I get it might not feel so strong, but with anything with even moderately heavy I just don't get it.
That dry-fire wasn't an accident, if it were, the kid would've been about as freaked out as one SHOULD be if they were to dry-fire their bow; the kid simply had NO idea what he was doing.
I have drummed this into my kids heads, even with their 5# toy bow. I want to make sure that before they ever have a “real bow”, they know never to dry fire. I’m not an experienced archer, by any stretch. I have only been in the sport (longbow) for about a year and I am a complete novice. This, however, is perhaps the most fundamental rule. Another rule I have instilled for them is to always check their arrows for micro cracks before loosing. A cracked shaft flying forward at 150-200fps (or faster for compound bows) can cause absolutely devastating injuries.
This is one of those pieces of information I just picked up somewhere.. not knowing why exactly.. or where I knew it from.. just one of those things. I'll be getting into archery soon. Research comes first though.
We use samick sages for our range bows, people dry fire it by accident all the time (if u do it intentionally You’ll be required to pay for it so it rarely happens) due to nocks incorrectly attached to the strings. Thankfully though the Samick sage at lower pound ages are pretty solid, having seen them being dry fired so many times they still hold up just fine. Never dry fire, but don’t worry too much if u do because modern science
That is a good idea to never let somebody else handle your bow. I had just gotten a new olympic-style setup, and an uncle of mine insisted on holding it. I reluctantly complied, though I reminded him to not let go without an arrow. He then went on a rant of how he had bow hunted for year, and he knew what he was doing. When we went to draw it back, he used 4 fingers on the string, and had a terrible grip in general. I almost had a stroke. Now, I only let other experienced archers or coaches handle my equipment, only because I trust they won't do anything dumb. They always ask for permission, and only it's usually only for helping with tuning adjustments anyways. This is indeed on of my worst nightmares: my equipment getting ruined by an inexperienced person.
another possible cause of dry fires.. not nocking deep enough having to loose nocks and to much contact between the nock and your finger... when releasing you might nick of the nock of the string.. or the nock might break when releasing. had several of those happen to my flatbow
mathijs175 had that happen to a buddy once. His nock flew off the arrow in such a way that the arrow barely moved His limbs were fine tho, they were a a pair of win win carbons, but still it was a painful sound to hear
I'm always surprised as how much my coach trusts me when she is teaching me some aspect of form and ask me / let me draw the bow without an arrow; I can feel the tension in the air; I pray inside that I would do anything but letting the bow to dry fire. And... she is always relieved when I undraw it carefully. As +Cleadge said below, I will always consider nocking an arrow, even without the intention to fire.
What causes accidental dry fires? I have actually done this my conclusion in the situation was my nocks were too loose for the string and so I think the string actually separated from the nock and arrow so when I released bam dry fire. Any other takes or possibilities?
I bought a new bow, new to archery, was testing the draw weight with a few 30 second holds to see how it felt. After three attempts on the fourth my shoulder just gave way about a third of the way through the draw as i had previous issues with my cartillage, doesnt appear to be any damage and probabaly only got released with 10lb of pressure. Want to get it looked over by someone who knows what to look for before i set it up again. So injuries is definitely one also.
Yeah.... I have one . I was at a club shoot. .. I was so focused on this one particular target. (Early days). I forgot to nock a arrow. Came to full draw settled in and BANG!! Bow blew up.. from that moment on I developed a set shot sequence...
I like the difference in severity between dry-firing a gun, and dry-firing a bow. You dry fire a gun (excluding hammer pin revolvers) and it's not a HUGE deal. Do it with a bow, the thing decides to just explode.
I never let anyone handle any of bows especially if there not familiar with bows...i learned that lesson the hard way. Friend tells me how his shot bows before, then dry fires my bow a week before hunting season & total limb failure...lucky I still had my old bow for hunting season...And he did eventually buy another one for me.....
The first thing your friends do when you tell them never to dryfire your bow is to start drawing back the bow arrowless with a grin. Every fucking time.
Incorrect, the bow limbs are put into BENDING not purely tension. Bending is a combination between tension and compression and is how the bow stores energy. The string is under tension but not the limbs.
Hi Mr. NUSensei, congratulations for your lessons, thery are quite usefull for people like me, who has no instructor or even archery range to pratice. Today something not so good happened, my bowstring broke while making a shot with my wooden recurve bow (SF Optimo, 68", 28 lbs). Curiously, the arrow was shot, but I could heard a strange noise right after it, as the upper limb vibrated freely without the string tension. I could not find anything unusual with the limbs after that, but I was aware of the posible damages following a dry fire. Could you please tell me if there is a way to safely check I have compromised my bow on this event?
This can sometimes happen. While the sound might be terrifying (it's also happened to me), it's actually likely that the bow is fine. Check for splinters and cracks, but I don't think the structural integrity would be compromised. If it was the end loop that snapped, this normally happens after the bow has released its tension.
When shooting, I have on occasion had the string slip off the arrow as I was releasing it, and I doubt I am the only one. Would there be any technical difficulty building "beginner" bows with a part that could safely absorb the energy of dry firing and be relatively easily reset afterward (perhaps requiring restringing)? Since the damage in dry firing often comes from the fact that the string puts excessive force on the limbs when it snaps taut; if the string were attached to something that could slip in controlled fashion when subjected to such force, that could safely absorb the energy. A need to restring after dry-firing would pretty well reinforce the "thou shalt not" rule, but limit the damage caused by accidental violations. Competent archers might never flub their release so badly that the string misses the arrow, but I suspect I'm not the only beginner who has done that.
I'm a newbie and got a crossbow with 165 Ibs tension to cock it. I struggled to get it cocked with a hand cocker, thought was cocked, it wasn't. The hand cocker was reaped out my hands and broke the pulling rope. It was a dry fire, I'm hoping that energy that broke the cocking rope lessened the shock to the bow arms. My advice, play it safe and get a cranking device.
Also, modern compound bow should not be pulled back with your finger, except for oneida bows that are hybrid and designed specifically for finger shooting. Modern compound bows have very shallow string channels on their cam and are only designed for release shooting. Fingers could twist and torque the string and make it slip off the cam, creating a dry fire. That's what happened with the guy at 4:05.
"even if you tell them not to do it, they will do it" I really can imagine that happening to my friend, and that's what I'm afraid of, even if I don't have a bow yet. Damn curiosity can be a pain in the ass in cases like this.
Have to say, regardless of bow, the age of the bow plays a very large roll in bow limb breakage. I've seen, and even had limbs break, with an arrow nocked. Worst case for me, was my grandfathers longbow, that he had since his school days, which were more than 60 years before the breaking limb, and passed down to me. Pretty old bow to be using, but it showed the craftsmanship of those days from 1920 and before. ️🎻👀️🏹️
I think that novices have no idea about the dangers of it and probably want to feel how it feels to fire an arrow without actually firing one. Its also counter intuitive for newbies, it makes sense to them to dry fire and when you tell them no, it sounds like you don't want them to have fun.
My gf dry fired when I wasent looking and I kinda freaked out. Luckily the bow was not damaged. She was a lil angry but I had to drive the point home. She understands now
I got my first recurve bow and dryfired it for around 20 times because i had no idea. Luckily it wasn't a full draw I inspected it and the bow looks completely fine, but I'm never dry firing again.
I had a nock break on me yesterday, as I fired. It essentially dry fired the bow. Luckily, there was no damage to the bow. Just startled the hell out of me, and slapped my arm with the string pretty hard.
the kid that has his compound bow blow up, he was he twisting the string. it was derailment from the twist, that caused the bow to explode. this is why even with an arrow knocked on compound bow you use a mechanical release so you do not twist the string.
I figured that dry firing a bow would probably damage the bow for some reason. Yet when I received my bow, I didn't think and did it then realized I did something I probably shouldn't have done. The bow is fine though.
Just recently made myself a PVC bow. Really cheap and light bow. First 2 people to pick it up dry fired it and the string broke. Now I know why Archers have so much tension on their faces when people pick up their bows.
A little while back I got my third bow, which was a Scorpion Recurve and it was already strung up. And when I showed my mother my bow, her boyfriend grabbed it and dry fired it. I yelled at him, but didn't inflict harm on him... I should show him this. Maybe he'll have some sense.
We have some really old bows my dad didnt dry fire it but it did split the layers apart the entire one side went limp it had no strength at all none of the layers were cracked they just seperated it was weird. He hadnt drawn it back in years so when he tried he wasnt sure what the poundage was so he just kept trying to pull back to full draw to see how it felt he had some trouble but he thought it was just a heavyier draw weight and when he finally pulled it back to full draw "BANG!!!!" it echoed through the liveing room and the house everyone in the house had their ears ringing my dad was worried he actually screwed up his hearing he was just sitting there stunned with his fingers still around the string. He said it didnt feel that heavy he wasnt straining himself and he just trusted the bow too much hpbut now he doesnt even want to trust the other bows he doesnt touch them he doesnt want to wreak them they were his fathers. But it was just a bang and suddenly it was a limp noodle no strength or power its almost like it turned to paper.
I can see how an archer might get very anxious and nervous letting someone else draw their bow. You're basically trusting them with your hard-earned money. One dry-fire could be all it takes to ruin an entire bow, especially a custom-made one-piece laminated bow.
Same principle for fire arms. Never dry fire a gun, without a manipulation cartridge, because it can break the firing pin. I think this is written in every manual.
Besides lending the bow to someone who doesn't know this, the next, most common thing I see is when the archer doesn't know that the arrow isn't nocked. I'm not saying this because they probably don't care, but because the arrow looks like it is on the string, but when they release.... may seem silly but besides ignorance this is the most common cause I see on the "Dry fired my bow compilation" Please be careful everyone, you don't want NuSensei's archery police department coming after you.
