@@brettrosenbauer3299 Or pick up a Giant Veer 20 for $50 on marketplace and rob the cranks. They're steel so even though they're made for kids I trust them.
I was going to put in a shout out to hardtail party for bringing this up and for doing an awesome video that I hope everyone watches also! Such great content we have in the modern Era of mtb and RU-vid!
...if you don't mind me asking what is your inseam length...I'm just a fraction over 6' with a 34 inch inseam...I'm riding 175 cranks now and am thinking about 165 depending on what your inseam is...tia...
I'm 5' 4" and my women's-specific Trek trail bike came with 175mm cranks, which should be a crime! I just switched to 155mm a couple months ago. Bought mine from Appleman Bikes in Minnesota. Matt Appleman has good data on his site showing that tibia length tends to give a more accurate estimate than inseam
Thank you for letting me know about Appleman's cranks. I definately would've considered those if i was aware of their existance when i was shopping around. Ended up fitting 152mm's from Trailcraft. Best upgrade i've ever done. Like day and night. Super difference in the way the bike performs on tricky passages on the trail
Just went to check my length to Appleman Bikes and it said 197.8! 😁 Now I understand why I'm so comfy with 190's 😎 But only in my BMX bike. On my MTB I just run whatever strong 175's I can find
I'm really surprised this isn't quite a big thing in cycling. Seat height is ok for inside leg adjustment, but the lower limb length turning circle is obvious. Shorter lower leg, shorter crank.
Thank you very much for this comment, I found the two websites that explain everything. It has been very helpful since I have not been able to get rid of a pain that I believe would have become chronic if I hadn't read all this information. Unfortunately, I already spent my money on cranksets that are not very good for me, but there's nothing like investing in health and, above all, to continue enjoying cycling, which is what I love most in this world, for many more years to come. Thanks to @darlafitzpatrick8770, @GMBN Tech for always being there with their great library of tireless information, Matt Appleman and Steve Hogg.
I just purchased a new Rocky Mountain Element in XS for my 9 year old daughter who is 4’8” tall. It came with 175mm cranks. Crazy. Went with 140 and it’s night and day difference. She had trouble riding it stock.
This doesn't prove anything its two people in a commercial for 5dev that have a money incentive to say thing that are positive for a company that sell cranks of different lengths. It is possible that everybody should have shorter cranks but this is no proof of anything. It was the same with all the youtubers raving about oval charings making you more efficient because they could feel the pedaling was smoother. Not to say that their isn't any upsides i just don't know if there are any except for larger groundclearance for shorter cranks.
Hi Guys, what I didn't hear much about in the video is the leverage aspects of the cranks. Going longer gives you more leverage on the climbs, but shorter usually gives you more use of your gear ratios. An extra 10mm crank length can equal +/-2 or three teeth on the cassette.
I agree entirely. I've just made the jump from 26 to 29'er, 3x9 to 1x12 and 175 to 170 cranks. The maths showed hill climbing should be harder on the 29'er, but I haven't felt it. Body lever sizes matched to bike crank length is far more important than the tiny loss in pedal lever length as you can extract more power from your legs with the proper fit. @@bigredactionsportsstuff1245
Like with all things and mountain biking it's a trade-off. In my opinion the little amount of added difficulty on ttclimbs that come with shorter cranks is really only noticeable immediately after you switch and about 10 rides in you won't even notice it, however you will notice every time you ride your bike for the rest of your life how much pedal strikes have gone down and frequency and how that old notion of dropping the outside foot on every turn becomes more and more dated and unnecessary
I'm glad you made this video, and no snark is intended. I'd love for more people to know about shorter cranks. It takes about 30-40 hours to learn how to pedal a new size of crank. I had been taught how to pedal properly 25 years ago but could never do it on standard cranks. I'm 6'2". I just thought I was too uncoordinated. (Proper = pedaling in a circle, or as I was taught "pedal front to back"). I put on a set of 153s in 2020, was instantly faster, and remembered proper technique a couple weeks after putting them on. Here is what I want everyone to know: You do not size cranks by proportion of leg length. You size it by resulting powerband. When a crank is short enough, you can safely (for your knees) get max power down to about 30 rpm, where below 70 rpm on 165s it was dangerous for me. I am 3 or 4 gears faster on all sizes shorter than 153 down to 130 compared to 165. I can accelerate a hard gear from about 45rpm on 153's, and on 130's from about 55rpm. I can mash the gears all day and not cramp, no pain. I can also rev to the moon on 130's, and go well over 100 rpm on the 153s. I have about 1500 hours on 153, 140, 130, 137 and ended up on 145. The dirt bike analogy works somewhat: 153 = an open class 450 dirt bike. 140 is like a 250 dirt bike. Better in some ways than the 153. 137 and 130 felt similar, like a 125 2-stroke. Fast, but all top-end rpms. 145 was a nice blend for me. My 5'1" wife is on 120s, but she is unable to provide feedback due to arthritis and low body awareness. She seems to be doing ok. I may put the 130's back on for her.
I’m 5’3” with short-ish legs and have been struggling with long cranks all my life. The smallest crank I’ve found available at my local bike shops are 165mm. I would love to try 145mm cranks on my mtb for some downhill, maybe even bike packing, and my gravel bike since a hip injury has been causing me pain at the top of my pedal stroke.
It's about time! I've been asking GMBN to do an in depth review on crank lengths for years. Every time I got the generic answer, "The longer the crank the more torque. Shorter cranks less torque". Never addressing fitment, inseam length and spin.
Yes one gets tired of that generic bullshit answer from everybody. Even this video doesn't cover everything it's better than nothing. It's good that people is waking up. Lets hope they influence SRAM to release their cheap OEM-only 155mm NX cranks for sale to everybody!
I've always thought it was ridiculous that all bikes came spec"d with 175mm cranks, no matter the size of the bike. I mean, bike manufacturers played around with different wheel sizes for different sized bikes but still spec'd 175mm cranks on a small.
Make sure you raise your saddle height accordingly when going from 175s to 155s which will raise your center of gravity and might require a cockpit adjustment as well...
i was getting excited about changing crank size but then this thought occurred to me. since my frame size is constant, i’ll have to raise the saddle and possibly get my bars higher, too. those would be huge changes all at once. could be tough to adapt.
@@msm624 Because the crank is shorter?? If you are a rider who knows your seat height number and are sensitive to any changes then you know. If you're a rider who raises and lowers their ridged seat post and never gives saddle height a second thought as it's close enough, then you will be fine.
@@msm624 to get full leg extension when you pedal. If I lover my dropper post, even an inch, I know longer et the full leg extension when pedaling. About 25mm=1 inch., so if you go from 170 to 165, not much change, but I'd still notice it. if you went to 145, that is a huge change. It is still peronal preference, but riders who are at full leg extension now, are very likely to need to adjust. If you don't care about pedaling--note the emphasis on E-Bikes driving this in the video--then may not matter to you.
I took my first ride on my new bike just today with Canfield Cranks. They also recommend shorter cranks as well, with a formula based on your inseam They recommended 155mm cranks. I went with 160mm, and wow! What a difference! Love it!
Switching to a shorter crank will lower the power you can generate at the wheel, all else being equal. If you shorten the crank, you would need to switch to a smaller chainring to get back to a similar power, which will in turn have an impact on the top end speed in smaller gears. The drivetrain is a system, and changes to one part sometimes require compensating changes to other parts. It would be a great follow-up video to talk about the relationship between crank length and chainring size (and cassette, and even back wheel size for folks who switch to mullet)
On a full suspension bike carrying a heavy rider with 175/170 cranks are too long. It doesn't matter if the margins of torque are a fraction higher if someone has to to pump up the rear to an uncomfortable ride just to keep from pedal striking. All a shorter crank will do is make you a stronger rider at the end of the day. On downhill and enduro riding it's the same thing, pedal strikes but your not pedaling. Shorter cranks are necessary for a lot of riders.
when I switched from the normal 165 to 150 cranks I started riding everything one gear lower- but I didn't really notice that, because you can only notice the difference on the lowest and highest gear- both of which I almost never use on my 12s cassette.
@@justsayin3600 I'm a heavy rider on a FS bike with 180 cranks and I do just fine. Depends on the bike setup and the proportional sizes of the rider. I'm 6'7" tall and have a custom shock for my weight so travel is not compromised.
I dropped to 160s and at my old age, it was a very noticeable climbing Quana Hill in Weatherford, TX. It seemed a bit easier, and I felt faster going up. Thanks, guys!
All I know is I’m 6’-3” with a 34” inseam and have ridden 175 or longer cranks my whole life until I bought a Transition that came with 165 on it. They felt so natural and good, my hips and legs were less sore after a ride, less pedal strikes, more stability and able to rev the bike up faster etc.. Now all my bikes have 165 on them and I will never go back to longer.
175mm was very common for medium to large frames in the US. I'm a bit taller, but every bike I've owned (road, gravel/cross, MTB), 1980s-2010s came with 175mm stock. @@olik136
I can’t believe frame manufacturers are still spec’ing 170mm cranks on XS and S frames. I have had to pay for 165mm cranks on all my bikes at 5’6”. Now I’m thinking that even 165’s may be too long.
You need a Hardtail Party Steve cameo. I tend to put 165 on all my bikes because it's the smallest available. However it would be interesting to see this in practice on something like a XC circuit, and measuring power etc.
Reducing crank length for the advantage of fewer pedal strikes seems short sighted. We made bigger wheels to roll over obstacles better. We widened hub and BB sizes to accomodate the increased side leverage created by a taller wheel( more weight). We made bigger frames stronger (2x) to handle the wheel increase(heavier). We added more and bigger gears to handle the leverage increase(heavier). We added a larger rear derailer to handle the gear range increase(heavier). So....we reduce crank size so as to decrease our leverage on our bigger heavier bike...
Shorter cranks seem like the best way to go. 5Dev is knocking it out of the park with some amazing products. I’ve always ran 170mm cranks & at 5’8” with shorter legs shorter cranks seems like the answer to help with avoiding pedal strikes & helping with climbing & cornering. Leaning towards giving 155 or 160’s a try to see how I like them over the 170’s.
so after riding with 170mm cranks for the last 20yrs….purchased my first ebike (with 165mm cranks) in February and with multiple rock strikes i dived into shorter cranks for it….went straight to some 150mm Mirandas and love the freedom of being able to pedal through all terrain without fear…just wish Shimano/SRAM would catch up, it’s not a trend big $’s….
I'm a 5' 7" guy and had 165, 170 and 175 mm cranks. 165 was the best for me as I felt the rotation of my legs was more natural and comfortable. The other two cranks made me feel like stomping compared to the 165.
If 5dev sold their alu cranks for a price that wasn't for multi millionaires I'd love to try shorter cranks. There aren't many options at the moment without changing a lot of parts
Actually, there are cheaper ones out there. You just have to make an effort to search for them since SRAM/SHIMANO still don't see any money in this (well SRAM has 155 on their NX series but only for OEM-sales on complete bikes, but if somebody with 460000 subscribers would put some pressure on them... hello @GMBNTech it could easily happen
I agree with him, I feel better and more stable on longer cranks and here's what nobody mentions when switching from longer to shorter cranks. Now you gotta raise your saddle up, Handlebar should follow to make up for the distance. You will also sit higher on the bike instead of in the bike.
That is over-simple thinking. Everything about selecting a bike always comes back to body size / bio-mechanics. Cranks, saddle height, bar width, stem, top and seat tube length... the list goes on. Not that simple!
Thank you. Finally! I'd like to add one realworld tested fact to all the other advantages mentioned: If you are a "heavy rider" (somebody the bike/suspension-industry do not care about) THIS is your simple solution without having to add 340PSI to the damper. Changing to 152mm has been a revolution for me. LIke night and day on the MTB-trails we have (not like the "clean" one in the video, but more like is shown a 12.25 minutes in: Natural trails in the forest with the addition of lots of heavy roots). Confidence level up 100%. Bike drives like a tractor up on them slippery rocks and down again. No pedal strikes. P.s: forget the expensive ones from 5DEV. There are many other out there if you search. Hope EVO for example, or Trailcraft!
I've wanted shorter cranks on my bikes for decades. Bike shops and others have somewhat discouraged me from going shorter. Recently, I wanted power numbers on my mountain bike, so I upgraded to a new crank. I went 5mm shorter and thought 10mm might have been better. I played around with some numbers on paper and confirmed after the first ride, going shorter has more positives than negative. ✌
My Scott Ransom came with 175 .I switched to a 165 gx wow the difference is amazing with 170mm of travel front and rear .I can now peddle in corners and out of corners .
You are the first review is the first I’ve seen that talks about the “bike stance” stability difference and personal preference. While others try to just align crank arm lengths with inseam and rider height. Thank you for sharing this helpful information. I have 170mm and I’m short 5’7” and planning my new enduro bike custom build
I rode 175mm forever thinking it was the best way to get leverage. I went to 170mm on one of my hardtail bikes and it felt really good. I tried 165mm on my all mountain full suspension and it felt amazing I do not think i would like the shorter cranks as much on the hardtail. I would love to get my wife on some 150-155 cranks. Her size small bike came with 170mm. Canfield makes shorter cranks and I believe Heir does for kids? Nice job with the video. I love that you guys collaberated with so many people when you were in the states!
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I was wondering about leverage as well? How did your shorter crank affect your power transfer from legs to wheels during climbs or sprints?
@ I found spinning to be better. For hard climbs you can tell the difference the power stroke feels shorter, I wonder if an oval chainring would be beneficial. It is recomendad to drop chainring size to compensate for shorter cranks. Sprinting is fine.
I just had my kiddo test out some Prevelo Heir 145mm carbon cranks. He is 10 and right near 5 feet tall. That bike previously had 155mm cranks on it. Only recently (the last decade or less)have kids bikes seen just a few brands paying attention to the needs of our shortest ride buddies. Very interesting piece. Well done GMBN Tech.
I already went to 155 on me ebike over a year ago and just the other day went to 155 on my regular bike. So much better than 165 , less pedal strikes and climbing especially on technical climbs is a lot easier. Ebike just less pedal strikes.
6:24: Length for climbing (XC) 172.5 and for DH, 155. Quite a bit of variability, so be aware of your application. I'm over 70 and our Utah climbs are 3000 ft of climbing followed by 3000 ft of descending. I found that (at my age) going down in size resulted in Achilles tendon soreness until I got used to the greater torque required with the shorter crank arm length. I also have a slow cadence, so that could contribute. No real change in pedal strikes out here. Apparently, if crank arm height is "x", our rock heights are all "x+5"mm!
I have recently went from 175mm cranks to 165mm, and oh my goodness it made a world of difference!!! If I could find some cranks that didn’t have to be custom made and only 160mm or maybe even 155mm i might try that in the future.
a very original take and perhaps a much needed video. Both my road bike and MTB (not 100% sure but it seems likely) have 170mm cranks but I heard that shorter cranks apply more force to the drivetrain. GMBN staff are the most fun
I'm 5'9" 175mm with an inseam of 31" 79mm and I changed to 165mm cranks 2 years ago from 175mm and my overall comfort and control is better along with fewer pedal strikes.
@@actionong Not sure about tibia length but a tailor once told me while he was measuring me for a motorcycle leather suit said that my thigh upper leg length is longer than the average man my height. So my lower leg is shorter than the average man my height. My trail bike is 155mm cranks while my Enduro is 165mm crank. This is mainly cause 165mm is available while 155mmm is not common. I got it to try it out and really am liking the 155mm. I actually can barely tell the difference between the two...could be cause of different bikes and different gearing. Both feels pretty comfortable and I can barely notice the longer 165mm. I mainly like the shorter cranks to reduce pedal strikes...But I can tell a difference between a 175mm, 170mm and 165mm. Ergonomically I much prefer the 165mm over the other two longer ones.
I dropped my cranks fron the stock 165 to 150 on my eBike, more for pedal strikes but i noticed the difference in riding almost immediately would never go back to longer cranks.
The immediate impact of shorter cranks that I see is that seat height would have to be increased to get the seat/leg/bottom position relationship where it needs to be.
I’d love to give my girlfriend these cranks. She’s four foot nine with short legs. She’s rock strikes everything on 160mm cranks so have these super short ones would be great.
Thanks folks. This intrigues me greatly. At 6ft1 the 175s have just been the norm. Yet, watching this, trying different sizes should have been a common thing will before now!
I remember hearing about the shorter cranks when Ben Cathro talked about it on one of his pinkbike series video. I tried out 155 from then on and never looked back. I feel more center and balance on the bike specially on the descent and much more easier climbing.
Who thought 175mm cranks for mtb was the way to go? Oh yea, shimano. In the late 70's it was 180mm for bmx and 170mm for road so I get it. My old mate Mike Burrows (now past) always laughed about how long cranks are! Legend
I run the 165’s from 5DEV on my enduro and love them. I’ve been considering trying the 155’s next. I like being able to pedal through the rocks in races and being less likely to peddle strike. Durable ass all hell too. Made it through entire Northstar DH series and CES enduro series on them without one issue. 🤘
It’s time for one of the big crank manufacturers to do a bigger study on this. If you take 100 people with a 32” inseam and have them all try 155,160,165 and 170’s and 90% prefer 160’s, then maybe bike company’s will start selling medium sized bikes with 160mm cranks. Do this for for all sizes. I’d be very interested to know if this is just a preference thing or if everyone my height would prefer shorter cranks.
Yep...old news for me. I'm 6'2" and rode 175&185 cranks for most my life. 10 years ago I started riding more then ever and bought a new bike with a low slung bottom bracket and was forced to do something about it due to pedal strikes. So I went to 165. I couldn't believe the difference in cadence, control, ground clearance and comfortability. I do enjoy a nice 180 crank but it has to be on a bike with a tall stance and ground clearance. I think bikes are just too small these days for that size cranks. This is all driven by the geometry of new bikes and the low bottom brackets. We need bigger bikes so 175-185 cranks can still be utilized for their obvious benefit... leverage!
I always ride XL bikes (6’2” with short torso and long legs) so always had 175mm. My new Stumpjumper (S5) came with 170 and I love it. I don’t notice any difference other than less pedal strikes on tech climbs. Don’t think I could go much shorter though, I have the OneUp 240mm dropper and it’s still quite a ways above the frame cause my legs are so long.
I want this crank because i need short crank to have correct alignment of the kneecap and pedal axle. I would also greatly reduce the risk of hitting the ground
I'm no expert but as a 5'2 Asian guy I could have told the bike industry cranks were too long even 40 yrs ago. I rode a bmx at age 7 and then when i got tall enough (broke 5 feet) my dad got me a Huffy 10sp in 1982 when I was 12. Even though the smallest size, it was still slightly big for me but with the seat and stem slammed I could manage it. However, due to the long crank I was having trouble with the pedal stroke, so my dad, being the Korean Mcgyuver that he is, had the brilliant idea to take cranks off an old kid's bmx and swap it onto the Huffy. Not sure the length, maybe 150-155, but man, after that I was flying, Overnight I became the Asian sensation and was beatin 'all the other kids with with my shortened cranks'.. lol After that even into adulthood, I've always got cranks off kids bmx and swapped onto my mtb since you literally couldn't find short cranks before online shopping. Fortunately the industry finally realized there are plenty of us short guys who bike (think Asians.. lol) and have started offering aftermarket cranks. But what gets me is why the major brands still don't offer shorter stock cranks on 'S' sized bikes. My most recent purchase was a Cannondale Trail 4 size 'S' in 2020 and only came in a 170. They're so fixated on progressive geometry, stack height, reach, this n that angles, but they seemed to have forgotten one VERY crucial factor. It's not like it would be a significant added cost, so what gives?
I learned, I laughed, it was a good time. I'm 5'7-5'8 and ride a medium 2023 Norco Fluid FS A2 and I just googled it and it comes with 175 cranks from factory and now I feel like I need to change them.
I was BMX racing through the early 2000's as a dad with my kids now riding. I grew up on 175mm and even moving to 180mm as it was supposed to increase leverage.I ran those for years. When i got into MTB eveything came with 175s and because I wasnt racing sprints I thought that was fine. More recent years I have moved to 170's. I see the move toward shorter cranks but haven't been able to wrap my head around it, though , for Anna being short, that make sense of course. Im 6ft tall. I would like to try some 165 and 160s and since I live in San Diego , if 5DEV ever has a test day I would like to try them out. Fantastic video you guys.It's got me thinking!
It's not so much your total height but more about the height of your knees, or more accurately the vertical height you can raise your knees before it starts to be uncomfortable. How upright your riding position is and the flexibility of your knees plays a part to what your maximum comfortable crank will be. Aggressive aero riding positions need shorter cranks, all else being equal.
Ive tested 175 and 155 i Think oval chainrings do fare well with the the short cranks. I also gone down 2 tooth on the chainring. I enjoy the short cranks for tech. Pros for the short: no hitting the pedals, more clearence under the chainring, lighter crankset, better in tech. Best
Good video. I've been running 155 Hope Evo cranks for over a year on my Enduro bike. Coming from 170 and 165, it took a while to get used to the pedalling but I love it. It did seem harder work at first but you just change up a gear to compensate but your legs/body are moving less. I don't think I'm any less efficient, maybe the reverse.
I first wanted the 155 Hope EVO, but they have been out of sale since june, so i imported 152mm's from Trailcraft (U.S) instead. Not sold by anoybody in the whole Europe (HELLO there...$$$) I hear HOPE has a new batch ready now shipping though.
Having a Turner DHR means having an incredibly low bottom bracket. I'm currently riding on 165s and to say that rock strikes are an issue would be an understatement. The amount of pedaling I have to do isn't a lot because I ride strictly lift and shuttle serviced runs, so the decreased leverage ratio would actually be welcome. Plus having my feet closer together on the platform and closer to the bottom bracket would really help with the center of gravity. My bike also weighs close to 40 pounds so having some weight savings from the skeletonized design would be absolutely incredible!
I used to race BMX for a factory team back in the 90's and crank length was no big puzzle. Back then some tracks had turns within 25 feet of each other but tracks the ABA built for nationals would only have the 4 straights and 3 berms (due to the cost to build a berm vs straight and the size or footprint the track could be at a rodeo venue). Our team back then knew if you were riding a local track with 5-7 turns you'd be better off running shorter cracks but when you went to a national (temporary track built by the ABA, now USA BMX) you should run longer cranks around 170mm because the shorter your cranks the faster you could spin and get up to top speed but the longer your cranks the high that top speed could be. In the world of BMX those were the only factors because you'd only be riding for 60-90 seconds anyway.
I would love to try some shorter cranks as they would help get my feet out of the way for flip combos and the shorter cranks would bring my center of gravity closer and would help my spin tricks come around quicker!
Based on your video on crank length , i modified my bikes crank length from 170mm to 150mm .. i m 5'2" in height .. it has worked wonders on me... i am able to sprint more maintain high cadence ..with high power for long duration of pedaling.. i did it for both MTB and Road bike. i am pretty happy riding now. i takes few rides to get used to shorter cranks.. once you do few hill climbs you are good to go..
Shorter cranks, lower BB, with a high pivot suspension does look like the next evolution in MTB geometry to me, at least for more downhill focused bikes.
Literally what I am building this week. Forbidden Druid v2 with 165 cranks, I’ve actually been on 165 for about 5 years. But I’m probably going to pick up some 155 or shorter
In mountain unicycling, crank length is our "gearing", so we have experimented with a lot of different crank sizes. 150mm would be considered long nowadays, with some people running down to 110mm. For us it's less ergonomic and simply down to wanting to go faster on the same wheelsize, but it has taught me that you can feel fine on fairly short cranks
Some people run 90mm on trick unicycles as well, I am personally running 110/127 dual-hole cranks on my 29" muni, and switch between the two depending on the terrain (110 for flat/gravelly terrain and 127 for more mountainous terrain), and the difference between the two is absolutely huge! A friend of mine added a hole at 110mm on stock 127/150 dual hole cranks for his 36er, which makes him insanely fast with the 110 on flat ground and still decent on mountainous terrain with the 150 (and 127 as a nice middle ground).
