@markorfila3832 you'd be surprised at the sound you can get out of a good bop kit! Especially if you have a small space to set up, and small real-estate on stage. Plus, just throw a Yamaha EAD10 on it, and you can get a 20" bass drum to sound like a 24 or a 26" drum just by the settings you use. If all you're playing is at home, don't gig, and only play rock, then maybe, yeah. But a lot of us gig, play jazz, funk, etc. and a 20 is perfect! Just tune it to not sound "boxy!" If you have an EAD10, you can get a bop kit to sound like anything! One of my favorite kits is my DW Frequent Flyer, designed by Peter Erskine! Different tool for each job, my friend! I use a Pearl Session Studio Select with a 20 all the time too! Even without the EAD10.
In my opinion the biggest difference is that a 22” looks more epic on stage lol. The sound depends more on the tuning and the material of the drum. You can get a deep and punchy sound out of a 18”.
@@onn.drummer that’s very interesting I have the same thing, my collectors maple kick ( 20) sounds so much more punchy and well rounded then my star classic ( 22) maybe it’s just the fact that dw makes beautiful drums 🤷♂️idk
A lot of drummers that I admire use 20" kick drums - Jojo Mayer, Benny Greb, Steve Smith, Chris Coleman, Anika Nilles, Robert Sput Searight; even some rock drummers use it - Jose Pasillas (Incubus) or Derek Roddy (a great death metal drummer)
I play a 20" on my Pearl MHX Masters Mahogany, but slid it to the left and use a lefty double pedal as my main pedal. That positioning allowed me to bring the toms WAY down, slide the floor toms up a bit and my 8-piece with gong drum fits into a 5.5 x 7.5' footprint. Very ergonomic. I play classic rock and the 20" is just fine.
The sonor safari 16” kick with an emad it’s awesome, I use it all the time to perform live and all kinds of music. I’ve even used a couple times for recording👌🏽
You prolly dont give a shit but does any of you know a way to log back into an instagram account? I somehow forgot my login password. I would love any tricks you can give me!
Love 20's and 18s for schlepping and gigging; and use my "concert kit" with a 22" when doing larger stuff and have real-estate to fit it in. Mics, head choice, tuning, and leaving them wide open is the way I like mine. I like tone with my bass drums, unless the music calls for muffling and more punch. If I'm taking something with me, an 18 does great! 20s are also great, but another 2 inches with a 22" isn't much bigger and takes up almost the same amount of space. In the studio, I use 22s, and just tune/muffle/adjust them according to the context. 22 is basically my rock and concert kit, and 18s work SUPER well in smaller venues where you're packed into a space, and especially for jazz and pocket playing. Great episode! An Evan's EQ pad does wonders! I just rest my Beta91A on the small pad, and have it rest in the middle, barely touching the batter head, if at all. I have a Mapex Saturn V, and that bass drum sounds better than ANY I've ever played! Low and fat, or singing and high, all with 1 drum. Great topic, and sage wisdom! Happy drumming!
Gretsch Catalina Club, PDP concept Bop, some Yamahas, some Sonors, a few Pearl masters, and Mapex with 20s are my favs. If I'm shelpping a kit around and for most uses; the Gretsch Catalina Bop (all mahogany) performs *ridiculously* well!
I have had 20’s for a long time. Fits in the car in hard shell case. Sq1 20” is deep and punchy. Very satisfying. For me also, as a younger drummer I had problems getting a 22x18 to fit on some of these tiny club stages. 20 will track and mix up just fine.
I would describe this differntly. For me it is like a bell curve. The most deep punchy low end seems to be in the natural range from a 22. Think 30-60hz. A 20 or 18 kick will just be pitched a little bit above that (maybe 50-100hz), which is fine, and can actually sound more punchy becouse it is more in audible range of smaller speakers and generally most playback systems. But now comes the crazy party, and why I am talking about a bell curve. The 24 and above go so low, that the low end cant be recorded that great any more. Even if you utilize a sub kick, most speaker just wont play that low. Also the bigger the drum, the louder does it sound. So in the end all the overheads and tom mics will pick up way more bassdrum, which in the end leads to a more mid focused sound, since all the mic bleed will have no usable low end information. And then when you pitch up the 24 so it gets into the 22 pitch category, the heads will be very tight and the sound will become more boomy and less punchy.
I play a 20” as well. It sounds great but my only hang up is that I’m super tall, so it looks kinda weird aesthetically towering over a smaller kick lol. But the sound is fantastic!
@@luishuertaavila1 Not if you get two 20''. Then it will look great and perfectly in balance with your height . Perhaps add an 18'' floor to compensate also.. they make a handy table when not in use. :)
i want a 20 because im short, and my 13x11 tom is too high. but i think 20s can look good with a tall guy too, you just need to get a second one, check out Blake Richardson. The small kicks make him look more imposing
Ever wonder what a 21-inch Kickdrum would sound like? Also I really l like the sound of a 20-inch KIck drum that is longer. Is that what you use? Great informative video. Thanks for sharing your experience.
My mapex V series kit (bought it in 2005) came with an 18" kick and when I first saw it I thought... How the hell is this going to sound nice?!! Changed the heads over time, have it tuned low/mid... I'd never want to be without this kick!! For me, it sounds perfect live and especially in the studio! Real punchy for a little thing. Loving your videos mate, have been watching you for a few years now, I'm really pleased you have got where you are now from when you first started streaming. Wish you all the best for you and your family
This chat convinced me to get a 20 inch kick. I have a 16, a 22, and it’s hard to fit the 22 in a taxi. The 16 is just very small, punch but no power. But no rush, because UK is still in NATIONAL LOCKDOWN so I won’t be drumming just yet! :-)
It's depends on the situation and genre. but for me when i just practice alone, i pref a 24" kick, just because of the punch in the chest and the low end presence!!
Dude, great insights to that question! I think the 20" bass drum is extremely versatile. For me, the compromise of size and sound is why it's my go-to bass drum size. Your comment on tom placement is the main reason why I prefer a 20" kick. When you add the microphone technology of the day to the equation, the only real difference is who has larger equipment to lug around and a 20 is pretty easy to transport. In the words of Ludwig artist Steven Wolf, "I can get away with using a 14x20 on any situation from bebop to hard rock!"
I play an 18" Pearl Vision Birch. I like that you talked about Tom placement which is why I like smaller kick drums, you can always adjust to your liking. As for kick sizes I only go as high as 20"
The largest kick I take to work is a 14x18” An Audix D6 internally on a Kelly SHU mount, there’s not a genre that it doesn’t sound incredible in with any engineer who knows thier way around comp & eq ✅
I played a 22" Pearl bass drum for years, but I never liked how high my toms sat. Just bought a Gretsch catalina maple with a 20" x 16" and can't wait to see the difference in tom placement.
Kick inflation is a thing and I think we should be going the other way. I'm at the point where I'm seriously considering using an 18" for everything, including death metal. With appropriate heads, muffling and tuning, I think it's viable. Smaller drums are simply more articulate.
I have a Yamaha Live Custom kit with a 20" kick, a USA Spaun kit with a 20" kick and a DW performance series with a 22" kick. The DWs don't get out much! The 20" kicks are solid, punchy with more than enough depth on the low end...plus it just feels better than a 22" or 24"...
In my experience, depth matters more than diameter when you're talking the 20" - 24" range. The most traditional 24" size is usually like 14" to 16" deep while 20" and 22" can be 16" to even 20" deep sometimes. That depth, is what changes the tone of the drum sonically for me, and primarily effects the outside kick drum mic, and room mics more than anything. Lets be honest, a typical bass drum mic like a D6 or Beta 52 put inside the drum and pointed at the beater head isn't going to care what size the drum is. Its only going to care about what its looking at, the head. SO the tuning of the head and the way the player hits the drum (if they bury the beater or not) and the type of material the beater is made of has more of an affect on the sound than the diameter of the drum. The more shallow the drum, the more "pillowy" the reso side mic sound will be, and how close to in phase it'll be with the inside mic without fussing around. The deeper the shell, the more "bouncy" the reso head is going to be, and will have a different (not necessarily worse) phase relationship than a more shallow shell. All that being said, when you're pointing the mics at the head of your drums, you're not going to hear much of the drum itself, you're going to hear the head and little bit of the drums. Point the mic at your actual drum, and you'll hear a world of difference. This is why the "crotch" mic is so nice sounding, because it actually picks up the part of the bass drum where the rim meets the shell, then you're talking dramatic difference in tones from drum to drum. What size is best, it honestly doesn't matter IMO, use whatever size bass drum lets you set your kit up in a comfortable way because after all if you can't play the kit comfortably, it doesn't matter what size your drums are.
@@chromebull884 gotta be close to 4ft length, it's 2 standard length drums together so whatever that ends up. It nearly doubled the volume somehow as well. We don't mic it in practice anymore
I wouldn't say that feeling, or what was, I assume, broadly described as rebound in the video, stays the same between different sizes but to me it lends itself to the overall purpose that a certain size serves. I've got a 20,22,24 inch kicks and they all have their own characteristics that correlate to type of music I would play on them. The 20 is pretty tight sounding and doesn't like burying the beater that much so it's great for funk and other kind of "springy" music, weird way to describe but it's the best I could come up with. The 22 is IMO the most versatile size and will sound well in pretty much everything, in many different tunings. The 24 is a rock beast - slower, harder, lower - that's what it does best. I don't change my pedal setting, even the beater height stays the same, feeling of the drums matters massively when it comes to playing in my opinion, it wouldn't feel right to me recording a song in the area of classic rock on a 20 inch kick drum, not because of the sound, you can eq it, you can replace it with a sample, etc., but just because of the response of the drum.
20” is very good size for rock, metal,etc. Theres many drummers that used 20’s in the early 2000’s: David Silveria(korn), Abe Cunningham(deftones) , the drummer from coal chamber(?). Travis Barker used 20” also.
the 26/ 24 and 22 are the only kicks for Rock ! 20 is a joke...Nick Mason has now gone up to a 22 and seen the light ! The Pulse kick drum was the weak point of his kit... just didn't have the cut...
I have been using a ddrum 20” for three years. The main reason was the smaller size. I move around a lot and it’s lighter and smaller. I sometimes use it un miced but usually with a microphone and a tm6 pro.
20 inch bass drums suit me for 2 main reasons; You get more room for a lower rack tom setup, and they are physically more comfortable to play due to pushing less air around (I find I get a much better kick pedal response from a 20 inch bass drum). And a 20 inch bass drum is still quite a big drum and will definitely give you enough low end, especially depending on how you tune it. The metal guys (like myself) are most likely just going to muffle their bass drum and put a 2 ply head on there anyway, so why not go for comfort first?
Um ackshually I like to use four kick drums, out of which the two main ones are 24” and 26”, then there’s a 20” in between them with the offset double pedal for the really fast stuff to be extra tight, and the fourth one is a little 16” for the jazzier parts, or to use as an effect or in fills. All of which are cast B20 bronze. They really compliment my 8 snares, 69 toms and 420 cymbals☝️🤓
For the most part I agree. The standard used to be a 22x16. A 20x18 (my current go to) has about the same volume of air inside it. You can definitely get a very similar sound to a 22 even without EQ. I don’t agree about the pedal action. That being said that’s coming from the other side of the size. I used an 18x14 for about 10 years and then started rehearsing with a 24x18. The feel off the head was totally different and affected my playing on more intricate bass drum parts a little bit.
I have 22" kick. It is the standard size. It has the beef like 24" while still being portable enough and has punch like 20", so the best of both worlds.
I had a Tama Starclassic B/B in 22", and I've changed for a Tama Starclassic Maple in 20" (with Remo Powerstoke IV drum head) , and didn't have a change in low end. And I really don't feel the need to have a 22", and 20" is easier for placement with the rack toms. And Sean Reinert or Carter Beauford use(d) 20" bass drum, and I can't say I feel it underpowered !
Have used 20 inch kicks for so on and off for like 18 years. Consistently for the last 5. You can tune them pretty much how you want them to because they are so easy to manipulate. And of course, tom placement is a big deal for me as well and I can move that around whichever.
After 18 years of drumming I have been wondering about using a 20 inch bass drum. I love how the toms look if I put them on the bass drum. On my 22 inch bass drum it always feels kind of tall. Hmmmm
I just bought a kit with a 20x14....looking forward to not moving around a 22x18 anymore... and while I think I my not get quite as big as sound..... I think the trade off will be worth it.... and let’s face it at club level imo I think u have to compromise a bit maybe a lose bit of volume or tone for a bit more portability.... or at least that’s what my 55 year old back is telling me 😆
When you play a 22", you realize that there's a reason why they're standard, but I had an old 60s Pearl 20" that I used to use all the time, and it had plenty of punch and definition for rock.
small kicks are like a toyota prius, very efficient but no "cool" factor. big kicks are like a hummer, mileage sucks but you feel like a beast. gimme a big kick. i don't care how much it weights or how inconvenient it is, i wanna hit hard and be loud!!!
I have a 20 x 12 kixk drum and I can tune it the way I want, jazz tone?Low end Thump? no reso? It is gonna sound awesome, when I had a 22 there was no balance , It was too loud for jazz , for rock there was too much thump cuz It need so much stuff in it that.. nah, anyway when You mic even a 18 inch kick it is gona sound very very good, 22 and 24 nah , not for me.
Yeah...'he said not gonna be missing that much !... '20" is fine but its not a big, organic and authentic kick sound ' ! ...he kind of described the problem with the 20 " !
I feel like the 22 inch is the perfect middle ground to cover a miriad of needs. As you said a 24(or 26) are just for rock, where as a 20 could be a bit too punchy. But again each to their own, I feel being 6ft 2 that if I had a 20 inch bass I'd look like I'm playing a toy kit 😂
Good points. I actually think 20 inch is the true middle ground and suits way more genres than a 22. You can crank a 20 for bebop or have it for for big band jazz. It also works in rock and modern settings very well as allows you to place toms lower. Not to mention, more portable.
Mostly agree with what was said. But the rebound on a 10" tom vs a 16" tom is night and day. There is better rebound and articulation on smaller drums, even when tuned to the same tension
Ok, never seen this dude before but when he said playing a 16 inch kick didn't feel any different than a 24 inch kick, I literally yelped laughing out loud, stopped the video to write this comment and am closing the video.
I pretty much defy anyone listen to a recorded drum track and tell what size kick drum was used......you're confusing what you think it looks like with what it sounds like.
Bro, death metal drummers are starting to say fuck the kick drum all together. I know at least 2 that play triggered edrum kick under their full "real" kit
