Are Car Audio Guys Audiophiles? - Dayton Audio DSP 408 & US Acoustics Lisa Amps 

I love car audio, home audio, portable audio and more! Great video, thanks for the shout out! "If the system is on wheels, then it's not for reals..." LOL!!

I can’t see anything when I drive but it’s cool...I’ve got good imaging. 😂😂😂 Great Video Joe

"if the system has wheels, it ain't got no feels" gave me the laughing cheels!😂😂

This was easily one of the best videos I've ever seen on RU-vid. Nothing but truth spoken about an Audiophile wanting good sound every where, especially when you think about how often most people are in their vehicles. Also, love Hater Joe...that dude is money

Great topic ! Being an audiophile but started in car audio too, I remember those early days where I used to almost sleep inside our car in the garage because that's where my good audio system was before. But later on matured and started building a home system as well. Though the environment change, the love and appreciation of quality music never change that's why I believe a car and home audiophile is the same. I also agree very much that its 100x harder to create good sound, imaging and soundstage in the car specially in those early days when there was no dsp yet and hi end home speaker companies like Focal, Dynaudio, Peerless, Morel, etc. are not yet into car audio.

"I can't see anything when I drive, but that's fine."

If you're looking for bass from your doors, heavy sound deadening material is where it's at. Look for Noico 80 mil 18 sqft car Sound deadening mat on Amazon, best $40 spend on a car audio system. Apply 2 to 3 layers right around the speakers, one layer behind the speaker if possible and then use the rest on spots that "vibrate" when you tap them with your fingers.

Oh man! Now you’re speaking my language... I’ve got all kinds of ideas lol

I like music wherever I am, full stop. I spend near 2500 hours per year listening to a crappy little desktop speaker at work. My next longest listening time is the car, and being a kid of the 90's when the car audio craze took off, that is where I have spent the most money. I also don't mind deafening music in the car, but can't stand the disconnect from the environment it causes in me at home. What's hilarious is that I watched your Dayton DSP video, ordered one for a project in my wife's car, downloaded REW, and just two days before it is delivered you post this.

I think if your an audio enthusiast that loves car audio it's so fun to work on the build kinda board when it's finished, if I had more play money my system would be constantly morphing even more. My next venture will be ditch my 2 way components and go active dsp tuned 3 way front stage. But for time being I will be going passive that way I can build the setup affordably and see how it sounds untill I can add channels and a dsp. To reduce the fabricating dabbing up single pods per A pillar pods vs 2 where I found nice coaxial 4" and as an experiment I'm going to seperate the tweeter to have a true 3 way vs crappy base blocker cap and it will be set up to tri amp them later, seems finding audiophile grade coaxials without spending a fourtune I'll probably go the conventional seperate tweeter and midrange pods per a pillar eventually.kinda anxious i never see bi amped coaxial in car audio... Sorry about running on I just get excited when talking about audio and at 47 no less

I've been both, switch back n forth now n then cause like you said if your an audiophile, you care what music sounds like everywhere you go. I drive ALOT so I'm currently fairly heavy into the car audio side, have more bass than I actually use with 2- 1250 watt 12" subs, but also have a nice front stage so when I do lay on the bass the music still sounds great. And the audio control dm-608 helps alot. Glad you made this video. Music is to be appreciated everywhere it played. I am def an audiophile

I enjoyed good car audio way back in the mid 80’s. We understood trying to get good soundstage up front, imaging and bass that blended and balanced the mids and highs when needed to and that could slam if we were pulling for SPL. We did the best we could with the equipment we had and heavily modified gear when we got enthusiastic about it. I never considered myself an audiophile, and still don’t, but I sure as hell love good sounding music and gear. Keep up the great work.

“Car audio guys got more subs than Pewdiepie! What’s up with that?” -Hater Jay, probably

This video brings back memories. It makes me think about Earl’s award winning bmw. He had b&w home speakers in a coaxial configuration elevator out of his dash and aimed at his ears. Then he had 12 inch subs in each front kick panel with the enclosure in the fender. Then he had tube amps converted to work in his car. That was the best sq vehicle I’ve ever heard. Astonishing.

Check out Doug from Soundman car audio. He has done several systems in cars and trucks that are very clean sounding and balanced. Not just loud noise. Also he is in the LA area.

Used to do car audio back in college. Had a very supportive Dad and we hooked up his Volvo with a full system including using a Mckintosh car amp. Now that's one heck of an amp if you are familiar with the Mckintosh brand.

Loved your video Joe!! 👌 I have a minivan also and I'm slowly working to finish my setup. It's a 2012 Nissan Quest. So far I have a single Savard Rap 12 being pushed by an old school PPI PC2150 bridged mono for a solid 600w. I will also be using a Dayton Audio DSP 408 in the build, and the rest of the amps will be old school PPI Power Class amps from the 90's. The front-end setup will be active 3-way using all Dayton drivers, and I'll be removing the 6×9's on the front doors in place of Dayton Classic Woofer 6.5". I'm glad to see I'm not the only SQ guy with a minivan. Lol I'll be keeping an eye on your build as I'm curious to see how you'll be setting it all up.

Hahaha another great video! Always felt a big reason for the disconnect was the inflated power ratings in the car audio world. Car audio guys running "3000W" amps, looking at home audio guys running "50W" or "100W" amps that cost a lot of money and thinking they're insane, but not realizing the differences in how power output ratings are calculated (or fudged) by manufacturers. I like your points about the car audio guys needing to be more data-driven.

It's funny that you said "it's much harder" to set up a good car audio system, because its true despite the fact that, unlike basically any home listening situation, you will always be in the exact same place relative to the speakers and can therefore basically perfectly compensate for time/frequency domain issues for literally one head position. It just turns out even still there are enough issues it's more involved. The answer to both? Wear headphones :P

I'm the tiniest bit like Fresh Hater Jay. It's mostly because I just don't want the complication or expense of going crazy upgrading my car stereo. Also, there's the issue of how I get emotionally involved in the music, it wouldn't go well with piloting a car. When I do need music to keep from falling asleep at the wheel, I put Tascam TH-200x headphones on my head. My car stereo has been broken for over 10 years, lol. I tend not to like having tweeters in a car on the door, they can be too close to my ear and thus too harsh. I have a friend with a Kia SUV (Totally Stock Stereo) and damn, the tweeters sound so bad and harsh. It makes the stereo unusable for me. (Perhaps soft domes would be less annoying.) I think they should have a way to turn them off, like you don't need them for AM radio for example. In that case all the tweeters would do is make unpleasant sounds unrelated to what you need to hear. Back when My car stereo did work, I was happy with the full range drivers in the doors and the slightly bassier speakers I put in the back, despite being such a Hi-Fi snob. My feelings are that music is secondary to driving when in the real world. Again back to my emotions being overwhelmed with certain music. Provably would have Big Subs and all that in my car if I had the Patience and budget, and had fixed the other stuff wrong with my car first. But yeah, no real hate for car audio guys, for me it's more like; "Meh. Why bother with all that, quietly drive home to get to my real system." Also, I listen to podcasts in my car though my JBL GO 2 BT speaker, placed on the dash. OMG, I'm so sorry for my long rambly post also. When My JBL Studio 530's come in the mail next week, I will provably want to put them on my dash too!

Car audio was definitely my first break into my own Audio experience beyond hitting buttons on my dads surround sound system. I've built a couple boxes in my day to ninja stuff into my truck. Spent too much time reading and going to the car audio shops for sure. Added an extra front channel to the front of my truck and put bass blockers on the stock speakers so everything could play louder and not distort. Something some audiophiles would likely think is sacriledge for some reason. Some of them are like "You must listen to the speakers how they come, with your own choice of 2 channel amp with no EQ" if they sound good, they sound good. if they sound bad, get something else.. ." pffft. I'm starting to think some of these audiophiles are the laziest keyboard warriors of the internet.

It's weird how people barely know about chucheros. Not only do you get loud bass, but you get loud mids and highs. Them things get very loud and clear.

I started with car audio. I only had 6x9" on the rear deck and head unit. Nothing in the front = Not good. Now my favorite has been (several years) 6.5" 2-way component series in front and DIY 8" sub in back of the driver seat. I really don't like rear subs. They often sound boomy and integration with the front speakers is bad without the dsp. Those full range drivers what you got are very nice sounding. Funny thing is that I have them in my home 2-channel setup along with another 8" DIY sub. I like to keep my hifi systems simple.

Don't use 6x9s I forget the reason why. Use 6 1/2 up front. You can run speakers in the kicks aim at the dome light you can time align it better. The really serious SQ cut through their Dash put speakers in their. Really need speakers with a good off-axis response especially if they're in bad locations. But what do I know I'm the average Joe.

So being a car audio guy as well as a home audio guy, the last system I had was in a 2008 Dodge Avenger RT. That speaker setup id the same basic setup they had in all the Mopars in that era. The front mids/highs are running off of the same speaker leads. They just cut off from natural restrictions. My advice is run a set of seperates in the front and do something like a 6x9 in the rear to help with the bass response. That gives you the distance needed to get the low frequencies out if the 6x9’s in the back instead of just feeling them.

I tapped like 10 times. Love this, I used to playin IASCA 150w

The majority of car guys I know are bass heads. They like loud boomy bass. I am not a "car guy" but I do like my cars. I am also not a "audiophile" but I like my quality speakers. So in my car, I like to combine both. I think a lot of people are like this.

bro youre a true stand up comic i was genuinely busting up you got bars

Intresting angle and insight into car hifi listening,you really break it down I note the speaker placement on the dash is a feature I mentioned to you before on another subject to me it seems to give the sound an alive feel and dynamic edge have yet to recreate this setup again.

Hey coincidentally I just came back from building my own OEM integrated non dsp system on a 2016 A4. Did so by going for component speakers(Focal PS 165FX which are delightful) , a 4 channel amp and a mono amp plus a compact 8' sub in the trunk. Let the focals go full range till about 55 hz and got the sub crossover at 47hz with inverted phase(which sounds way better from the front). They blend perfectly and offer real world stereo performance for under a thousand dollars with sound deadening included and installation. If you need any modicum of tips I can offer my input

Hey Joe great vid! If you have Dodge Grand Caravan 5th gen like I do with center console that connects with the bottom of the dash .. if so there should be a pass thru storage space right under where you plug in your cell phone/ auxiliaries. I removed the center console and molded a fiberglass box in that storage area. I used a 8” Infinity ref 860 it only required .35 of sealed cubic feet so it’s perfect for that area. My system: Jbl gto 6x9 separate 609c and only used the 6x9 as a midbass no tweeters on the doors not to lose imaging. The dash got infinity kappa 4x6 plates as my mids and highs. I had to cut the trim piece where the 3.5 go into top of dash to install them. What I’ve learned in installing this set up is I should’ve built the sub box with the woofer firing downward instead I fired it upward and more rattling! And in the future I would like to put the 4x6 plate to face me instead of the glass where the tweeter tends to sound to bright with it hitting glass

I miss having space for 6x9's. the optimal size for coaxial in my opinion

So good to see someone that has same interest in car audio here in LA? Do you still have the same setup now or you have upgraded already?

EXO comin at ya! Awesome. I was never into having that much power as for a SPL setup in my car but I find it interesting on how they tune their systems, build their boxes and the full in and outs of their setups. Back in 2000 I had 3 separate amps in my car but it was a SQ setup. I had a 50w for the fronts, a 75w for the rear deck and a 100w bridgeable to 400w on the sub using the high current switch. I used all Cerwin Vega's in my car and it was set up stealth. Also, I built the Bandpass box in shop class but it didn't sound all that good since I built them in shop class when I was 16 and didn't get the subs until I was 19. The box was the wrong size for the Vega Series subs that I ended up getting. I ended up having to by a box for them, If I was still in shop class I would have built the box but this was a couple years later and not in high school anymore. It's weird, now that I'm in my 40's I hear low end bass differently, When I was in my 20's, then it needed more low end, more bass, but now I hear that same bass that I was reaching for, in a pair of 6" X 9"s or my tower speakers (8") on my home setup. I can hear that 25 - 30Hz rumble better than I could back in my 20's.

Hey woooooh dude, you are my hero, I look into every audio channel I come across on the tube. I clicked on your video and almost everything that came out your mouth this particular video is exactly how I see it or how I feel. So good on you for getting it right. I will be following you and looking forward to catching up on your older content as well as future content. you can expect me to be commenting on thing often, much in the form of criticism and my hopes is that if you disagree with me you will help me understand a little better your perspective and or experiences. thank you so are...

Omg Nailed it. used to be same, only cared about the max wattage and getting that boom windows shaking sound. Wasnt till I got a Focusrite and learned about Flac and HD audio till that mindset changed. 2023 Nissan day one had the stock unit out. I got an aftermarket and the RCA level is low for what I would call good (sub out is like 0.8v the front and rear is about 2v. .So I ordered one to try to get the sound quality on the sub on par with the vocals. I have a 5channel just to give the system a bit more power, as its all EV so I have to be careful on the total power draw.. But your right some like SQ and some like big bass. I used to talk to EXO many years ago when he started as I used to repair amps and we both Definitely went in different directions. I went into I.T and he is the basshead we all love .. anywho off topic thanks for sharing

CDT makes some really nice 6x9s that play really low. Their ES-690CFS Gold would work nicely.

Infinite baffle subs in your back deck would give you trunk space and bass

I run a fully active front stage off my pioneer 80prs but I also beat down the block when I want.

Home theater is way easier then competition audio, a good installer will keep your car for weeks , so many bad installers in car audio.best way to get a good installer is the same way you get a good hair cut...see someone with a style you like and ask them who did it..if you walk in to any car audio shop you might get screwed...also if you know about competition audio, you know good bass from boomy bass.Great video bro.

Back in the day, there were these small, tube subs that were great at providing bass without taking up space. Some people these days are 3D printing their own enclosures, but I bet you can buy something off the shelf now. I agree that vehicle audiophile is HARD.

Many Sound quality competition systems can get crazy spl also when they want. I have a 18” infinite baffle in my VW cc SQ system and I can do insane hairs trick all day long at 20hz and that is typical of IB.

You could put the sub in the center speaker in the dash

I know what you mean about the need to understand every aspect of the system. I'm deep into a project to measure, understand, and improve the B&O system in B9 Audi's. They really made upgrades as painful as possible.

Worked in car audio back in the late 80's. Back then, no one building a car set-up was doing it for quality. Everyone was in it for SPL! I would do, maybe, maybe two cars a year with High End sound as a Goal! I don't know about today. But back then it was becoming deaf as quickly as possible!

Hey, first time viewer here. Also a follower of Audioholics, BigDWiz and a few others. I feel you on the space issue in a car. If I told you I had a 10" sub in the cabin (NOT THE TRUNK!!) of my BMW Z3 roadster, you'd think I'm either lying or stupid. And you'd be correct on the second assumption. After running into nothing but issues aligning and dialing in 3 tandem Dayton Audio classic 6.5" subs, as well as exploring options with about 4 other brands and types (went through 11 mini subs in testing and application) I landed on 1 "big" driver in the passenger foot well. Why would I do this? Simple. BMW might make "ultimate" driving machines, but their sound systems usually suck. Because the cabin is so cramped, the music actually sounds better with the top down, than up. You would already know that. And because the seating positions are so close, you're practically wearing gigantic headphones. I can hear my music clear as day at 70+mph (weird flex) and the fiberglass box I fabricated only takes up about 4 inches of depth from the passenger foot space. It's noticeable, and taller people might not want to take long rides, but it beats having a sub isolated in the trunk behind a firewall and the gas tank that stands up behind the cabin seats. Admittedly, the sub is suuuuper close to the listeners (hello foot massage), but it's the best application I could come up with. I highly recommend fabbing a composite enclosure (vs MDF/wood that eats up 1/2-3/4" in all dimensions) and going with a Rockford Fosgate P3S. That's the "shallow mount" version of the P3 series. I have a 10", which I have severely punished with no signs of failure. Sealed enclosure volume is quite low, you should get response down to the mid 30Hz range and you will definitely enjoy the response it gives. Not a huge SPL driver, but it's so good, I almost want to put more of them in all of my cars. I honestly didn't think a shallow subwoofer would do well, especially in a down-firing config, in a volume that's a touch too small, and wedged up under the dash of a tiny convertible- but there hasn't been a listener who hasn't walked away impressed. Give 'em a look. I would almost recommend 2 for a van, but I'm sure 1 will wake up the neighbors without sweating. 10": rockfordfosgate.com/products/details/p3sd2-10/ 8": rockfordfosgate.com/products/details/p3sd2-8/ In my car (The plexi window appears to flex a lot more than it really does. I'ts 1/2" thick and easily capable of having feet, sandals and shoes rested on it- exactly why I designed it the way I did. I'm sure I'm leaving low-end extension on the table opting for a "flexiplexi" window, instead of a reinforced wall, but it's probably only a few Db difference, and I wouldn't be able to detect any changes without measuring equipment. Obviously turned up to show off for Instagram. Cheers, instagram.com/p/BuzDSBFn5rP/ instagram.com/p/Bv9_zr-nBoW/

Measurements absolutely matter! At home or in the car. Remember, if it can be heard, it can be measured.

I run a car audio store in northern California. I do DSP quite often. If you have any questions dm me. I'll shoot you some pointers. One would be a flat down firing subwoofer - example: Kenwood P-XW1001B. That way you can stack stuff on it. Be sure to contact me

Sounds more like your 6x9s are out of phase if the bass is stronger with only one playing.

Awesome video :) I have spent more on a sq sound system in both my cars than my home audio... both decks have built in dsp. I do spend quite a lot of time in the car... A recommendation for a good small sub, look I to slimline subs, have one for under my seat if I go camping (need as much room as possible) I found Rockford, JL,Pioneer, and Kicker the best ones in the mainstream market, have a Rockford Fosgate P3 on the back shelf in my SC400, and working free air it is impressive and punchy. Playing yurima it feels like you are standing next to the piano.... and shakes with knife party (also in Australia so I also don't get some of the brand's you can get, unless eBay)

IVE BEEN WAITING FOR THIS!!!!

I like big bass and sound quality. Great video, I will definitely set my speakers up so I can't see clearly out the windshield.😂😂😂

I love bass don't get me wrong but I don't know what to buy. The thing is that when I watch videos on subwoofer recommendations, I'm too afraid to choose they are all different and most of the videos go over SPL instead of SQ. I want SQ and Dayton Audio and Alpine are brands that I look forward too for that but I really want to learn more in order to get SQ but at the same time not distort. Also, blasting music is where the bass is literally shaking the cars surrounding me is too much. I just want clean bass where even from a distance you could make it out.

i just bought a pioneer ts-wx610a, that fits inside the spare wheel... i found good reviews, and because i also want to keep my storage space (i've got a yaris - not a ton of space to begin with) i went with that.

Joe, check out meade916 cause his wiring is meticulous. He's also the guy who makes the amp dyno and a lot of other tools used for installation and measurements. For your van and your family situation, 6.5" subs up front. Maybe kick panel. Maybe in the door with a solid baffle. You could also try a removable box using a quick disconnect connection. I did that for my phev cause of the tight trunk space.

Not sure how limited you are for space, I saw the pics, but not sure if that makes a 1.25-2cube box out of the question. You could have a Dayton Ultimax 8" in a 1.5cube box (probably slightly bigger to accommodate the port) tuned to 30hz and I'd assume get great extension with that. Not sure how low you're trying to go, or maybe it won't be loud enough... But just a thought. Or 1.25 cubes tuned to 33hz.

Car audio fabrication does some good vids on shallow mount subs in a very shallow box with some jl audio subs and they look great and id say they sound great too

Have you posted an update on the caravan sound system? Do tell!!!

Sweet! Joe, where are you located? I’m starting a high end audio company for Tesla Model 3s. We have a prototype ready and I’d love to show you if you’re in SoCal!

Man i've been into car audio 7 years now and ive had my current setup for a few years kinda just set by ear and forgot it. Started looking back into whats happening now a days and took the time to learn how to set gains by voltage meter, gonna try to get a cal. mic. to do some eqing in the car and maybe my 5.1 home system. Nice to get some help from you! Im debating on getting a dsp right now or not. Whats your take on using a mic like iMM6 from dayton on a phone vs like the umik with your laptop? All that software looks so time consuming and idw go down another rabbit hole of learning lol Also why passive crossover if you have a dsp? Cant you set crossovers actively with that?

if I can't afford to make a big car stereo I will go audiophile to my future car

Hey man thanks for the vid and keep up the good work, just curious tho cuz I have the 408 too but how do you set up a center channel on it? Like combine the L/R into one channel

Great video Joe!!!

Skar makes nice 6.5” subs. I have 3 that fit in a convertible.

I love your vid's man, I really appreciate the humor mixed with the non-pretentious down to earth information. I just ordered my 408 and I can't wait to set it up. I'll be using an using an old school Rockford Punch 360.6 to power a 3 way front stage with Subwoofer in an Audi A5. I'm hoping I can get this system to come alive with this DSP. My goal is to get phazing corect between crossover points to avoid cancellations. Does the DSP correct for this automatically? Do I just need to swap polarity between each crossover/speaker set when using a Butterworth alignment? Should I even choose to use Butterworth? Or is another crossover type more applicable? Any thoughts are greatly appreciated. 10" Sub 80hz low pass: 0 Deg 8'' Door woofer 80hz-500hz Bandpass, 180 Deg out of phase. Mid/high combination 500hz High pass, 0 Deg Kind regards, Jeremy

Great job and very interesting

Nice amps ✔️

Could you use the hafler circuit to add a 5th center channel to a 4 channel amp?

this is gold … I love it lol

Joe can you explain more about the hafler circuits on your next video? The pros, the cons, how about the impedance to the power amplifiers, will it takes more power from your alternator etc, and is it better than the "ordinary" quadrophonic" system 😊

Hey hey... slow down. How did you connect the rear speakers to make them sound as rear fill? Can any amp be connected as the photo shows?

HiJoe good day, I'm new to DSP and I know nothing about it, but i want try and experience awesome some. I already have my audio set up with pioneer avh 4200 nex / dayton audio 408 / alpine pdx f4 for my tweeter and 3.5inch mid high and hertz HDP5 for 6.5 mid bass and 12inch sub ..(now running 3way active plus sub). I already purchase umik 1 with USB and downloaded REW but. I can't find on the internet a diagram how to / were to connect rew to send signal on my speaker can you help me with it...looking forward, thanks

You aint wrong, all i want is BASS

lol. the video ive always wanted!!!!

People make this too difficult. Give your mids, highs, and subs their own amplifier. Over power all your speakers to get clean output. Sound deaden trunk, and doors...done. everyone that has sit in my car are blown away and no I don't have a DSP. 😂

My first car had high end audio, back then that meant...... An AM radio, an eight track tape deck and a pair of 6x9" speakers...... (Totally State of the Art)

Are audiophiles car audio guys?

Step one, ditch the center and rear speakers. A properly designed and tuned car audio system will surprise you...

I can't speak to how they sound, but Tang Band makes a 6x9 "sub-woofer". Might be better than the stock 6x9s... www.parts-express.com/tang-band-w69-1042j-6x9-subwoofer--264-837

JL or other 6.5” sub

Car Audio is MUCH MUCH harder tha Home Audio to get right

Shout out EXO!! @5:23

There is three camps sq spl amd sql or loud sq who can do it with say 2 subs 12s a sset of fr9nt high end three ways and a decent power digital new chipset

Car audio guys have more subs than pewtie pie!

And I'm here while depending on my mood I want a 2000w rms subwoofer system in my house to shake my insides(currently rocking it but I'm planning on getting something more powerful for some low lows) or a 50w SQ setup cos my ears are bleeding when I hear a cheap shitty overpriced speaker set from cars, portable speakers, or even home theaters

Car audio will ALWAYS be a compromise because of ambient noise masking the mid to high frequencies. So the term "audiophile" does NOT apply. However the quest to get the best sound under the circumstances is still valid.

The answer to that question is a big *NO*

Car audio guys = needs more bass They could just change every speaker for a subwoofer and they would be living the dream.

Um.. No. Bought a 2018 Lexus LS500 that beats any mobile audio system.