Are Critical Race Theory and Catholicism compatible? | Think Like a Jesuit, Episode 3 

So you are saying racism is a natural consequence of the inferiority of certain races? You think blacks are inherently more violent and less intelligent?

@@andyzar1177 Racism is an individual bad attitude; like greed or arrogance or nepotism or cronyism or xenophobia. I think the causes of the differences can not be assumed, but must be discovered and proven. I don't divide people by race and compare them. You do. CRT obviates the need for any thought, word or act of racism as proof of their presumed verdict. All they need is their preferred race measuring less favorably than another. Regardless of the cause: they declare their favored race to be victims of the other. Then they would use real government enforced discrimination in response to their presumed discrimination; altering laws, policies and practices to favor their preferred race. All for the stated purpose of forcibly making the measurements between races identical. The operative question is whether you support using government force to implement racial discrimination. All the rest is academic. My answer is no.

What is the "real theory" that you're supposedly disproving? Go right ahead and answer, we're waiting.

@@johnatilljohnson1677 'Critical Race Theory'. You're quite welcome. "We" who? How many people do you think you are?

@@michaelpcoffee An extremely poor response to the question! Deflection

it WAS just that but is now applied and assumed in every case of disparity.

Wow 👏! The comments are positively infernal. There's a lot of heat in the kitchen here. Sincerely ✝️ gospelgirl

"And what "structural inequalities" are you talking about? Could you spell them out? Give some examples?" Sure, redlining in granting mortgages. For most of the early- and mid-20th century, Black Americans were "redlined" when it came to getting mortgages. Since you want things spelled out, here's how that works: White American: "Hi, I'd like a $10,000 mortgage to buy a house. I make $2500 per year and can put down a down payment of $1200." Mortgage company: "Sure, here's your mortgage". Black American: "Hi, I'd like a $10,000 mortgage to buy a house. i make $2500 per year and can put down a down payment of $1200." Mortgage company: "Sorry, you don't make enough money to qualify." Fast-forward two generations, say to the early 21st century. White American dies, the value of the $11,200 house is now $750,000, the money gets distributed among 5 grandchildren, each of which gets $150,000 to start a company, go to college, or buy their own houses. Black American dies. He paid rent all his life because he "didn't qualify" for a mortgage... so HIS 5 grandchildren get... ZERO. See how that works? And redlining is still happening today.

@@johnatilljohnson1677 - I don't think the greedy bankers care about black and white so much as they care about green. Money. The greenback. If they think they can make money off someone or something, they'll do it. That's capitalism. Ever hear of the Subprime Mortgage Crisis? Yeah, it's a thing. It happened back in 2007 -2008. It wrecked the whole economy. All they care about is a good prediction that they'll get their money back with interest. Lending to poor re-payers is a bad bet. Or do you posit that every lending manager at every bank and institution across the nation is so ontologically and irredeemably racist that he will deny members of certain groups loans and thereby put his job and his promotion and his profits at risk? See how that works? It's all about ROI. Return on investment. Greenbacks, baby.

@@TedSeeber Not how the real world works. If 99 banks redline and 1 bank does not, then Black families have access to 1% of the resources that White families do.

@@TorMax9 I'm probably a lot older than you, babe. I go all the way back to the 1970s when redlining was a thing (and yes, I remember the subprime mortgage thing, it was basically LAST WEEK). Your statement "Or do you posit that every lending manager at every bank and institution across the nation is so ontologically and irredeemably racist that he will deny members of certain groups loans and thereby put his job and his promotion and his profits at risk?" indicates that you weren't aware of life before about 2000--in the mid-to-late 20th century the answer to the first part of your question is YES... because it DIDN'T put his job and his promotion and his profits at risk. WHAT "risk"? Racism was tacitly accepted, and keeping "those people" away from "us" was PART of a banker's job. It wasn't until the 1970s (which you probably don't recall but I do) that the government began seriously penalizing people for being racist. And it took a lot longer for them to begin winning court cases. You probably are thinking, "Yeah but 1970 was when dinosaurs roamed the Earth, what does it have to do with anything today?" Well, I bought my first house in 1992. I paid the down payment with my own earnings... PLUS a check that came from my grandfather's estate.. My grandfather bought HIS house in 1925, about the year my mother was born.... just 60 years after the end of the Civil War. My grandfather benefitted from redlining, in that he was White and he got to get a mortgage, while Black people didn't. As a result, when he died and his house was sold, in 1992 I got a check. It's all about the greenbacks. See how that works, baby?

" Plus ca change plus c'est la meme chose!" "Despair is the only sin." Cardinal Cook, after we'd had a beer together, sitting on packing crates in a waiting room at a church conference, back around 1966.

"Other injustices built into the human genome are: rich v. poor; antisemitism; anti-asian sentiment; tall v. short, handsome v. ugly, white collar v. blue collar workers; stratified neighborhoods. These have been going on for centuries and are innate in the make up of man." Which is what is stated within the first 30 seconds, so what's your point? As for "intellectual discussions like this are superfluous". Oh okay. You're basically saying that intellectual discussion is pointless. Okaythen, what are you doing commenting here?

@@lordfnord5768 Our hope lies not in CRT, which is just more of the same.

Jesuit, try to be Catholic edition:

Victim mentality successfully implemented. Now you can engage with marxism and start hating everything "opressive" and "evil" and feel morally superior.

Not so sure that "drawing those people in" is the goal, but the simple acknowledgment that economic injustice for all is a critical problem in American society. Thank you for your comment.

@@garykopycinski1109 I only meant to indicate that without addressing that, it perpetuates misperceptions about what is meant by "privilege" and only serves to further alienate people rather than bring them together and point out area where they might share common/similar experiences. And yes, economic injustice for all is indeed a critical problem in American society. Thanks.

Sorry you can try make it as neutral as you want but the way it plays out is anything but neutral. Its a weapon for opportunists to garner political power for themselves. I am a mixed race South African that sees first hand where these ideas lead. Academics that make this topic their primary interest are bad actors Catholicism is a religion for all. You dont need to add anything else to it

@@drm7552 economic injustice is not *a* critical problem it is *the* critical problem.

@@brendo7363 I don't disagree that is a critical factor!

I came here because I am still struggling to be Catholic though I was raised as such. Yes the church did many amazing things but they also did some horrific things and I keep telling myself that I should not equate God to God's people but if these people are supposed to be my family and my church ( my guidance at times like this when I'm struggling) and they're like you and don't see how I struggle or why I would, should I be here...? It feels very lonely. The church has been used as a tool for colonization and subjugation not just the Catholic Church the Christian church. Just take your time and listen to the indigenous of the world and their history with the church from forced conversions to forced sterilizations. The stealing of children to indoctrinate them, there's a lot of trauma here, even before we get into systemic systems that have been upheld to keep certain people back regardless of whether we're consciously aware of them

Bingo! From Brazil.

Remember though, the Jesuits don't have any problem with Marxism. Indeed, the Jesuits do not represent true Catholicism. They are way off on the far left and with all of their intellectual trappings and talk about love, this is an entirely skewed version of the Catholic teaching.

Marxism is not compatible, therefore none of their pernicious and subversive.theories. It´s all about destroying natural order and harmony on society.

I think you misunderstand CRT. It is not immune to misuse and need not be unscrutinized, unvetted, undiscerned, or unpurified. It does seek improvement and does not require worship. It is a tool, not a conclusion, and mainly an academic tool. Like every academic tool, it can be scrutinized, discerned, purified, and improved. I will give you this. Academic tools often suffer when popularized. Twenty academics independently look at "X" and research the question "Why is X the way it is and is it that way, at least partially, because of racism." Nineteen academics conclude not, and one concludes "X" developed in the form it did because of racism. All 20 academic papers are read by academics, but only the one is the subject of a negative news report on FOX.

What is your response, then, to the gross disparities in jail sentences in the US that exist based on race?

@@TheRealShrike I do not divide people by race and compare them. More criminal behavior will cause more arrests and convictions; won't it? Worse crimes, repeat offenders and aggravating factors will cause harsher sentencing. If a government agent is proven to be violating Equal Protection Before The Law; they must be removed immediately and permanently.

And where exactly do you get victimhood from CRT? Respectfully, I think you are not understanding the discussion at all. The entire *point* of CRT is to finally view the "American national story" through the lens of systems to find the endemic obstacles that have been (in many cases, purposely) erected to create the institutionalized power that separates people and applies legislative levers to unbalance the movement and ownership of capital. In other words, people are *blocked* from "having achieving a rich rewarding life." No sense of victimhood is produced; What is produced is a fairly comprehensive analysis of data that is hard to dispute. For example, the discrepancy in sentencing mentioned above by commenter Jason. Working for against real injustice is not the same thing as assuming victimhood.

@@TedSeeber Working for against real injustice is not the same thing as assuming victimhood.

@@TedSeeber who talked about reparations? I think it goes more like this. Imagine you live in a mostly Protestant country where everyone only uses Grape juice for the Eucharist and don’t drink wine at all. They don’t care if there is wine or not. Or if is banned. As a Catholic, you will be jeopardized because you can’t celebrate the mass properly. You need the wine. There is no law that prevents Catholics from celebrating the mass, but the laws that exist make the celebration of the mass very difficult. Critical theory would suggest to remove the law that bans wine and allow Catholics to celebrate the mass. Now, this is an oversimplification, but when applied to race it usually goes around historic segregation and Jim Crow laws. Even though the laws were removed between 1964 and the 1980s, these laws created structures that are hard to see, but significantly affect some groups. A good example of this is in the 1980s and early 1990s. Since many Hispanics were segregated from American society due to Jim Crow and racism, many people grew up without an adequate education, as a consequence many Hispanics never got the chance to learn English and develop a academic path outside of low paying jobs (see Mendez case). By the 1980s, many Hispanics still struggled to assimilate even though they have been living in the u.s for hundreds of years and many generations. Small things like English courses and programs to incentivize education in Hispanic communities allowed Hispanics today to be one of the fastest groups in achieving college education and partaking in many aspects of the American society (even in public office and entertainment).

@@rightly-ordered Respectfully submitted, you'll have to do much better than a terse, off-handed one-liner.

@@rightly-ordered CRT critiques systems, not individuals. It is one lens through which to view the world. Fixing broken systems is the only way to improve the world. I don't know of any other way that scales effectively. Expecting individuals or churches to "just be nice" doesn't scale well. And CRT is not necessarily Marxist. You are setting up false dichotomies. It is ironic to me, though, that you are against playing the victim when that is literally all I hear from right wing Christians these days...they are so persecuted, bless my heart.

‘Catholicism should encourage people to understand issues that create inequities and help to fix them.’ There, fixed that for you

Individual agency should not trump God’s Will in your life. You are conflating the doctrine of Free Will too much into an idol if this is the case.

Tor Max, by ur logic we should not teach about Nazi Germany because it reduces people into categories and creates tension because it does not talk about the positive side of the Third Reich.

Jesus.

I suppose catholics should also be opposed to university admissions, credit scores and all systems that reduce people to a category or number.

Critical theory is not about class and economics. Critical theory is mainly about about how culture is oppressive. I hope you know that plenty of ideologies came from Marxism such as communism, nazism and baathism. Critical theory is not Marxist, but it has a Marxian complex such as oppressed and oppressor conflict theory complex.

+JMJ The Church hasn't. It seems the Jesuits and the Jesuit pope has.

The modernism is strong with these two

All anti-Christian structures need scrutiny. I consider the BVM to be a radical -- see The Magnificat. Jesus, too. There are various type of feminism. There's "mainstream feminism" - equal pay for equal work, etc. "Marxist feminism" is about how capitalism produces inequalities for and oppression of women. "Radical feminism" (not to be confused with Marxist feminism) says these inequalities and oppression of women predate capitalism by 1000s of years and derive from patriarchy. In this regard it is sort of like CRT, which is separate from Marxist CT. That ancient patriarchy period is when the Catholic Church arose, but I think it's fairly clear in the Gospels that Jesus questions/opposes such oppression of women. (Side note: anthropologists studied the skeletal remains of a 12 year old girl from the Mesolithic 10,000 BCE to 8,000 BCE; her knee/leg bones were damaged from grinding grain; she was probably a slave girl or disvalued family member.) However, as with all revitalization movements (which includes all modern religions), there is a period of "adaptation" in which they adapt to the structures of their times. So I think Christianity started with more equality for women, then devolved into patriarchy by the time St. Paul was writing his letters. Islam, too, had more equality for women in its beginning (centuries after Christianity) than the fully adapted (to patriarchy) Christianity of that time. Go figure. So we're past due for more revitalization in the church and society re all these inequalities and oppressions, like a 4th wave of feminism and of racial justice. God's will be done. BTW, I was trying to explain to my husband recently how rotten sexual harassment is, it's terrible psychological impact on women, how it could deflect a woman from a great life path to something much less. I don't think men quite understand that. Not to mention other forms of discrimination and violence against women. I know men also have it hard in other ways, partly because they have to maintain their station above women -- the psych toll of that.

you don't know anything.@@TCJB33

@@TedSeeber Why on Earth would anyone want to be 'free of anti-racism'? You make it sound like racism is a good thing. And what do you mean by 'fake identity criteria'? Your comment is, where not appalling, incoherent. Try being direct and clear.