They are just more engaging on the trails. I love it, when it gets chunky until you have baby head seized rocks, to be honest 🤪 everything smaller and I am within my comfort zone and I do Enduro riding 💪🏾
Gents please will you recognise everyone is different and has different needs! So will you please stop trying to guide us down the full sus option! I'm 62 and have been riding mountain bikes for over 30 years! Whilst I'd love to do some of the things I used to do I know now if I fall off my body breaks far easier and takes longer to mend! Hence my riding style in now more sedate! Also I want to use my bike to ride into the mountains with panniers so I can go wild camping so I think a HT is more suitable? Please accept that some of us just want/need a HT and give us some focused advice and support about HT's without spending time trying to persuade us to get a full sus! Can we have some reviews on HT's without telling us how we will be missing out by not having a sus!!! Otherwise love everything you are doing 👍 thanks Paul
I used to ride fullies exclusively simply because I was used to them from always having had one since my early teenage years (thanks, parents). And that extra capability encouraged me to explore progressively rougher terrain and challenging trails over the years. But then I moved to a flatter part of the country and my riding changed from up and down to distance, and my first 29er endurance hardtail simply rode better on those hours long marathon rides exploring my surroundings. I ultimately found that my hardtail can get me through occasional rough rocky/rooty patches and downhill well enough but rides especially well on nice roads and trails. So, lifting my bum off the saddle over big roots and kerbs has become second nature 😁
I hired a hardtail at dalby forest and after doing 30 miles of trails I felt like I'd been run over by a truck. I then hired a full suss the next month and did 30 miles and didn't even feel like I'd been on a bike. I now own a full suss focus sam2 6.8 and love it 👍
Yes same, I am moving from Trek Fuel EX 6 suspension bike to Trek Powerfly 4. Because I'm alot older now, it's going to be more touring now rather than ripping through hard core trails.
@@guy3555 test ride both hardtail and fs, bought the fs . A bit more comfortable, got it on sale,saved 1000$...both are bloody sweet rides. Laugh every time the motor kicks in.
I always found hardtails much more fun, raw and offers more of an adrenaline rush for me, but a full sus was nice to get your breath back on the rough surfaces
I bought a new Spez Tero 4.0 November 21 for riding trails in the Surrey Hills. Been riding MTBs since early 90s, both full suss & hardtail but this was my first EMTB. I was very pleased with it, but soon found that the extra weight on the supplied 2.35 tires was quite uncomfortable. I changed to 2.6 and this helped. However, I found the more I rode it, the faster I became, the further I went & I started to tackle more tricky trails. After only a few months I realised that as much I loved the Tero 4.0, it was not suitable for what I was doing. Thankfully due to lack of new bikes available I was able to sell it on for only a small loss. I replaced it with a new 2022 Mondraker Chaser R with the latest Bosch 750 battery and I love it. This is so much the bike I should have bought in the first place. It’s perfect for what I do. The only upgrade it required was DHF & DHR tires as the supplied Recons didn’t have enough grip for where I ride in the UK. In short, the HT was brilliant and I loved it but it was not suitable for where I was riding. This can be said for non e-powered bikes to, but due to extra weight of the ebikes the lack of rear suspension is felt more so.
Bought a e-hardtail 4 months ago. Got around 1500 km on it right now and i love it. Drove a full sus last weak and it was a bit boring with my ride style. So i love it even more now. ❤
Love, love, LOVE my hardtail EMTB. It does everything and goes everywhere. I love hill climbs and jumps on it. Not quite as fun as motocross but way less expensive.
Quicker to clean in the winter! I got a cube reaction hybrid pro 2years ago. Started off with 100mm coil on front. Year later went 130mm air. 6months after went 150mm. Put grippy tyres on it, great bike. And 2.5 grand cheaper than a full suspension! Run the back tyre at 15psi and u have a tiny bit of rear suspension 😁😁😁
We have Ecotric e-bikes with hub drives. They also have throttles. They are rigid frame. My husband can no longer walk without a cane and that is difficult. Have you done a video on the benefits of e-bikes for the disabled? It's given him a way to get outdoors. He can no longer hike. E-bikes had given him a reason to still enjoy life.
My first e-MTB was a 2019 Giant Fathom E+3 hardtail. Five years later the bike still puts a massive smile on my face as well as giving me an introduction and broad education into the world of pedal assisted electric mountain bikes. Not all of us have a tonne of money to jump straight onto a e-full suss and the notion that a well setup hardtail isn’t capable of dealing with difficult gnarly terrain simply isn’t true (and this is coming from a 60 year old man with a dodgy knee and sciatica). I would even suggest that for a vast majority of amateur e-mountain bikers and the vast majority of rides those riders tackle, an e-MTB HT is the perfect bike to be on compared to that of a full suss which would be overkill but that’s just my humble opinion. It’s like buying a Toyota Land Cruiser and then only using it to do the shopping commute when a Suzuki Jimmy would suffice.
Got a full suspension first then bought a Specialized hard tail for daily riding and to carry my drone and camera gear down paved trails to dirt for photography. Great suggestions/video, thanks! 😁
I think I've trumped the hardtail ebike world and purchased a kingsong S18 EUC electric unicycle, it has suspension, no need to lock up and leave, it has a trolley handle to wheel around shops etc, take it on the bus, train no worries and with a 50 mile radius, it's still an electric powered cycle too, just a unicycle.
Hard tail Tero 5.0 for some smaller reasons but one giant reason. I want to ride it everywhere, including adventures on road. The only e-mountain bike I know of that is able to go 28mph assisted is the Tero. This is a factory option to have it upgraded. For road rides being able to squeak a bit more than 20mph is a little bit more important than full squish. Price was also slightly a factor, other bikes can be had near the same price. That said, I absolutely do not regret it. The 2.35 tires will be swapped to 2.6 mainly to cut the chatter in the rear, the fork is already upgraded to a Yari 120mm, it’s a great weekend adventure bike. I have a stumpy for the harsh stuff but honestly I don’t even need that much most of the time. Most anything I regularly ride is more flow and loose rock which is fine on a hard tail. Next morning I can be out touring the countryside or bombing to my favorite breakfast stop, it’s great.
I have the Orbea Urrun. Soooo fun. Also, my thought was without that rear suspension in frame, that's a great space to fit a bike bag and make this an epic bikecamping rig. I have yet to try it on a spicy blue or an easier diamond.. But, I plan to.
@@patrick.771 Hi yes, it fits my needs well, I don't need full suspension for the trails I ride with it. Although I did bend the back rim, it needs to be trued. So maybe I do need FS? lol. Nah, it's fun.
definitely, cycle to work scheme ftw, if you have a capped limit and cant order a full sus on it. Personally looking to do this for the commute and then the lad can ride it at the weekend whilst i am on the full sus.
For those of us lucky enough to ride velvety smooth ,groomed snow trails in the Winter , a hard tail fat bike, such as the Norco Big foot vlt , is a dream bike! A rear shock isn’t necessary for that style of riding. The Swedes and Norwegians are all over it! ⚡️❄️⚡️check it out.
Hardtail with suspension seat post gives the best of both worlds without the added cost and complication of full suspension. I have a Felt Doctrine with Suntour NCX post, can't beat it.
I own hardtail EMTB, Cube Reaction Hybrid Pro. I always had a hardtail, wasn't riding that much but always in the forest. When I started taking my daughter to kindergarten which is a bit further daily I decided to buy EMTB. I actually haven't even considered a full suspension. Once I started riding on EMTB, mostly commuting but also through forest trails I like it more and more. I also tried the pump track I discovered nearby and small jumps and now when I'm watching more and more of your videos I'm thinking if I haven't made a mistake. I haven't tried a proper trial so far but plan to do it in spring. I hope that for my occasional trail riding it will suffice. And if I fall in love with it and have time to ride more on trails then I'll probably go switch to full suspension.
Full suspension bikes can do everything that the hardtail can do, AND then some. Many riders who buy hardtail bikes don't buy them over full suspension ones. They buy hardtail bikes due to budget limitations.
I don’t own a hard tail myself but have a brother that loves his. He also has a full sus but where he is riding dictates what he rides. He uses the hard tail a lot on the Malvern Hills and similar places and the full sus on more ‘rowdy’ trails. That said a persons budget will certainly play a part in what they buy.
Protection from the whims of the changing standards bike industry. And, remember that in these tough economic times people may not have the money to properly service their suspension components. Hard tails are just basic fun. If you can’t ride and have fun on a hard tail then you won’t have fun on a full squish. Except for the dudes just showing off their money.
I went full fat full suspension cause I ride Vermont double black tech trails. Wife went mid motor hard tail cause she’s into Vermont gravel to two track fire/sugaring trails. Specialized Turbo Levo for me, Liv Tempt3 E+ for her (she especially loves the auto assist of the Giant/Yamaha motor)
I'm a BMX guy first and foremost. I've never gotten along with full suspension because of that. 29 is almost as bad after giving that a try for a while. I'm hoping to drop down to 27.5 in the spring time to see how I get on with that.
Hardtail Fatbike for me. [Fantic FatSport] Where I live I ride in snow, rocks, roots, mud, and a wide range of temps. I have a 29er full squish non-ebike and it collects dust. When I bought a hard tail fatty [Growler] I fell in love. Now my new fat e-bike just opens up more riding possibilities for me.
Great convo guys ,im having this dilemma ATM being in the 2k to 3k price range considering weather to go entry level full suspension or decent hard tail. But i think you've hit the nail on the head with the e bikes being a different ride to a noramal bike. Ive never had a e bike before but i think i would be more adventurous on one. So thanks for the tip 👍
I had a Trek Rail 5 and it was great but I’m a bit older now and a proper trail bike allows me to put myself in a bit of danger. I now have an Orbea Kemen SUV and I don’t dare take that down technical single track. It’s a good all around bike that I can now ride with my wife. Added a Brooks B67 spung saddle and it ride great over bumpy forest roads.
I don't own an E-MTB but when i do buy one it is going to be a Hardtail (Can't stand full sussers) not my thing, always had Hardtails, had one full susser but got rid of it. I also have more fun on Hardtails. So for me Yeah an E-MTB hardtail is preffered
Well hardtails are more fun when you have good riding skills. I found riding on a full sus I got lazy/less active on the bike. Steve switched from all time fully bike to a rigid bike, sure he got rattled. Hardtail riding takes getting used to but once mastered the whole feedback and experience is so much more rewarding. But I also understand it's personal, we live in an increasing “less afford” society so I get the choice of a full sus.
My own route has been fairly atypical. Started with no-suspension city bike from Kalkhoff for rides in the hilly city of SF and the Bay Area, shared with my wife. Kalkhoff originally went with a proprietary motor design that the hills of San Francisco absolutely brutalized. The clutch or gearing in that motor burned out 4, maybe 5 times in a year. That prompted a considerable upgrade to a Riese & Muller Homage GT Nuvinci. After years of bike truck service (using a Surly Ted), I built a new, DIY, AWD, dual battery bike truck and the R&M was retired to family rides on increasingly hilly fire roads, so I upgraded it from the tired old Nuvinci to a SRAM GX Eagle 10-52 lunar drivetrain (had to build a new rear wheel), changed the tires to Johhny Watts 365 front and Hurricane rear, and had added a PNW dropper a few years back for descending 29% graded streets in SF. It came stock with a Fox 34 front fork and rear lockout remote. So it was essentially at this point a full e-mtb, albeit for lighter riding and of course very heavy at 68 lbs. (a heavy light e-mtb? lol). Tried that out on numerous XC-style rides with a smattering of enduro and downhill features that are common in this neck of the woods. The full suspension on our old R&M is great, if a little low travel at times. But a 68 pound bike is very difficult to learn mtb skills on for the first time, like wheel lifts, pivot turns, bunny hops, et cetera. I'm accustomed to nice load-outs now, but not having the skills to ride it to its full potential, did not want to spend another $6-15k USD on a full-sus e-mtb. So I bought 2 bikes: a $398 Walmart special, the Ozark Trail, purely as a session/clinic bike and a Ride1Up Prodigy XC for $2,500 and an extra battery ($500). I probably spent another $1,000 on upgrading components (still in progress), and had some other components lying around. So all in, about $4k. Yes, I could get a lower-end full-sus e-mtb for that, just barely, but I don't want minspec components, which brings me back to the $6k+ range (either upgrading a $4k bike or just buying a nicer bike). For a bit over half that, I have a hardtail, class 3 e-mtb (technically illegal, but there is no enforcement here anyway and it's largely a moot issue on hilly trail rides) with a Brose TF Sprinter that weighs 22.7 kg and can destroy hills with an e*thirteen 12-speed 9-52T cassette and SRAM GX Eagle derailleur and shifter, and on city streets hit 28 MPH, something a $10k class 1 e-mtb cannot do. Once I learn the skills on the Ozark and the Ride1Up to deserve a $6k+ full-sus e-mtb, I will buy one in the future. I'm a monkeywrench who likes building and working on his own bikes, so having another bike or two in the stable doesn't bother me. I took the Ride1Up on an inaugural ride in Marin headlands last weekend. Just by virtue of it weighing 18 pounds less than the R&M, I'm already doing self-taught wheel lifts. The ride is indeed a bit rough, but I'm not ready for truly downhill, flowy, hard tech terrain rides yet anyway, and I have to say, even with the stock componentry, the bike absolutely rips on flats and downhill sections and is just overall a blast to ride. Can't wait to get the e*thirteen/SRAM on there and see what she can do. By the time I feel I have the skills down for more technical riding in a few years, I'll be starting to ride more technical stuff anyway so the switch to a full-sus e-mtb should be fairly organic, if you will, and having ridden in 'hard-mode' to learn, should be that much more of a blast to ride. Not to mention e-mtb's will be even more amazing in a few years than they are today. Not the same choice everyone would make, but it works for my situation.
I ride my Levo with locked f/r sus when on the road or bike paths etc but full sus all the way off road - I’ve got a non elec hard tail 29 and a rigid fat bike as well but suspension wins for my local
I'm moving from FS to Hardtail now, purely down to the type of riding I will be doing now. No longer cycling down hardcore trails, just riding forest tracks and gravel so no need for FS anymore.
I already had two electric bikes but I wanted a mountain bike so I bought a second hand gary fisher mountain bike a 750w mid-drive motor and used a 48v 15.5 spare battery and built a DIY electric mountain bike all in for £700 and its still going strong and its a hard tail and I don't ride the really narly trails but i would like to buy a full suspension bike in the future 👌
I do not ride very technical trails with roots and rocks, so HT is all I need. One might argue that gravel bike would be enough for me in that sense... Ride on some rougher roads would be smoother on higher speed on fully, but for the price difference, I rather have bigger battery and better gear on the bike...
I went full suspension on my latest eMTB due to the fact I had experience on an e-Gravel bike. Waited and spent a bit more for that EMTB just for that full range motion. The EMTB is actually my wife's as I still ride a regular MTB full sus but I did go from hardtail to the current MTB. Great video guys. Love the comparisons.
I ride hard tail First Because I don’t do trails but I want the comforter of the front shocks on bad streets and sidewalks .but I do love the kool look of full suspension 😊
A good hardtail is better than a cheap full sus. Plain and simple. For the same price point, that’s what you’re choosing. Cycle to Work schemes increasingly allow that £2.5-3k budget where you can pick up a fairly decent hardtail but can’t afford a decent full sus. And for commuting during the week but doing some reasonable trails at the weekend - you’re going to struggle on the big blacks but are you going to smash those on the bike you need to get to work on monday? Hardtails are a go between that most people fall into - ride around during the week, do some trails, some longer rides down some country roads/paths, but most people aren’t flying all weekend. I’d look for the best motor/groupset available for the budget then worry about the rear suspension afterwards.
I've just ordered a Orbea Urrun over the Rise. My rationale was that since I'm getting on a bit now I'm less likely to be doing the black trails and more gnarly routes that I did previously so less incentive to spend the extra £1300 on the full bounce. Plus I've always ridden hardtails anyway so well aware of their pros and cons. Can't wait for it to show up now 😊
@@patrick.771 Yes. Lower spec all round than the Rise but perfectly decent kit that can be upgraded as and when necessary... and I don't feel at too much of a disadvantage when I'm out with my bouncy chums. I'd say the benefits I see on the road, canal paths, etc outweigh a bit of bone rattling on the rough stuff.
I brought a specialized ht to start with and loved it maninly because it was cheaper but quickly realised that the riding i was doing and were the ebike could take me i needed a full sus and its just so much more comfortable to ride but the ht defo taught me how to pick better lines.
Im 62 and just purchased a Trek Powerfly. 5 I've been riding MTB for over 30 years and regularly headed into the Peak District for the more extreme trails and down hills I still have my Proflex856 & 857full sus bikes in the garage. Now I stick to local trail riding for the health fitness benefits and feel for the type if riding im doing Full Suspension is over kill plus its extra maintenance with the pivots and shocks.When I was thinking of buying an ebike It was a toss up between eMTB or titanium framed eGravel bike which are full rigid . If I could have found a good quality rigid EMTB I think I would have chosen ridgid. I have fond memories of my first MTB a 2nd hand USA made Marin Rockyridge.
I've been down Snowdon on a hardtail - carried it up though! And it was quite a good one, not a £450 job. For me (apart from that Snowdon trip) I like hardtail because I have kids. Hardtail gives me just a nice little bit of fear and adrenaline without riding blacks or road gaps and stuff. I don't need to put myself at risk to have fun. So effectively I ride it because of its limitations, not despite them
I don't have an e-mountain bike. I'm watching to learn more and avoid mistakes if/when I give it a go. I think the monopoly quote you are searching for is unfortunate in this case because I think it is "go directly to jail, do not pass go". The opposite of what you meant! Great video though, keep it up.
Having had a hardtail e-mtb, and just gotten my first full-sus e-mtb, I completely agree with what you said at the end as a summary: Go full-sus :) The difference is like night and day :)
First EMTB this summer, purchased the CUBE Reaction Hybrid Pro 625 hardtail, fantastic bike with great components and the 85Nm Bosch motor. More than capable for the terrain I cover (single track, bridle, rutted woods) and I can go a good distance without feeling knocked about. BUT I’m now sitting here recovering from back surgery (not bike related) and I’m 61. So I’m not going to be throwing it around, but maybe a bit of buyers remorse is setting in. Should I have gone £1k above budget and got the full suspension with dropper post? I reckon the PNW Coast dropper+suspension post maybe a solution, otherwise a trade-in?
I have a Haibike hardseven/5, its great for the trails I do here in NZ, and I prefer the look of a hard-tail, ive taken it on complex trails and it does suffer however.
What I'm hearing is if you need a full rack mounted on the back of the bike, that is basically the ONLY reason to choose a hardtail emtb over a full suspension emtb. This was my opinion prior to this video. Thank you for the confirmation bias. 🤣
I am waiting for a full on trail e hardtail. Love riding a hardtail 😍 go a roudy trail one. Looking for an Enduro style hardtail and at best as an eBike. We will see what the future brings. Nowadays there are only those commuter style, light off road e Hardtails 😑
A Trek powerfly 4 or allant 7 with a suspension seat post might offer enough fs for a variety of use and are way cheaper than a similar quality fs mtb. Also fs might be more for young riders. Enjoyed the clip.
I love my normal "organic" powered hardtail, efficient, light, playful, things I wouldn't associate with ebikes. (Don't really need efficiency with an bike and the other attributes are eroded by weight). So personally I went full-size enduro level when getting an ebike.
"Back in the day, if you could enjoy riding a steel-frame bike with no suspension and no motor, then you can have an even better time on a modern electric mountain bike (eMTB), whether it's a hardtail or full-suspension model.
As much as I hate to admit it, I got beat up on my hardtail URRUN 10 on blue trails. It’s fun and I can ride way longer than normal, but wish I had full squish.
to do bike courrier in montreal canada all years round and still do stare sets drops and use snow bank as table tops. i m also big on enduro dh and trail so i d like to have fun while i work. fat for courrier i think to much tyre drag and not anuff suspention or else i go for a city bike
Its budget to get hardtail over fs i love hardtails im in Australia 🇦🇺 test road powrrfly 4 before covid. But now loosing drivers licence. They r on special so going a trek rail 5 gen 3 fs .1500 more but be worth it as i had a car accident and fs be alot nicer test ride again when they get a med frames in
for myself i originally wanted a hardtail e bike from specialized and from the research i gathered among's the competition the specialized hardtail was the weakest out of the bunch. the orbea hardtail caught my eye in the hardtail choices but like you said for the price its pretty close to a full sus e bike so i ended up getting a turbo levo 29 to which i love. but i think it all depends on the majority of the terrain a rider is riding most often. if you were like me who rode the city bike paths that are paved and the odd gravel or fire road then i think the hardtail is the right tool for the job because when i ride my turbo levo 29 on these terrains i feel its way too overkill for the situation. recently this year we found high mountain trails we were hitting on a regular basis and this is where the turbo levo shines. even though i do have a full sus turbo levo i am also keeping my eyes open for a hardtail too, for the simplicity of paved bike paths and simple riding. i do find the hardtails very attractive because of its simplicity and not too over the top.
A discussion from two owners of full suss bikes? I live on Salisbury Plain. Miles upon miles of chalk tracks, some hilly, some very steep. Not much technical single track though. Ive no wish to go to a bike park as I want to use my bike from my back door. I bought a Cube hybrid reaction race, seems to do all I want at the pace I ride at.
Guys there is a huge market out there for Hardtail emtb's. We are not a nation of good amateur or ex professional riders, so a do it all emtb without the expense and maintenance hassle of a full suspension is perfect. Most of us are not going to be chucking it down the kind of trails and tracks you guys do in the way that you do it, so we have no need for rear suspension. The reality is outside of the bubble you live in not many people have a spare cash sitting in the bank let alone the cost of a decent full sus emtb 4-10k. The more you keep being negative about Hardtails the more you are excluding potentially new cyclists to mountain biking and Emtb's.
I went hardtail because I HATE riding a full sus bike. Its just so uncomfortable always bouncing on a full sus, plus I use my arms and legs to absorb bumps out of habit already so what do I need the extra parts for
Price is only advantage. You will always be disappointed with the hardtail feel. Despite the high cost of living it remains popular. Don't piss around just buy the best for maximum fun and pleasure and turn yourself into a gleeful kid again. E=Mtb²
Speak for yourself mate. Have done 3000 km now on my Cube Reaction Hybrid hardtail (with lots of proper big mountain riding) and am still loving it. Only cost £1800 new in 2020, spent a few hundred upgrading the forks and adding a dropper. An equivalent full suss would be £4000+. Yes, will concede that a full suss is better, but that doesn't mean you will be disappointed with a great hardtail. As has been said many times, hardtail can handle anything, just need a bit more riding skill.
@@jonm7272 Glad to hear you are loving your hardtail. For the money you have spent it sounds like a good thing. My point is that when you buy your next emtb if you have more money available dual suspension will make riding more comfortable in all situations. Also try a set of Fox 38 forks 🍴for stability and to make it even easier on your body. If you eventually upgrade you want everything to feel better . Cheers E=Mtb²
@@robhaskins3068 Thanks Rob. It's good advice, but actually I'm lucky enough that I could afford one if I wanted, but I prefer to spread my money out a bit more. I have a carbon xc bike, a full suss trail bike and the hardtail emtb. I'd rather have more specific bikes for different types of riding than one do it all bike. The carbon xc bike is amazing for big mountain hike a bike, nice and easy to carry. The full suss for trail centre and bike park reds and blacks. The emtb hardtail does just general exploring in the hills, which it is amazing for. All three together probably cost less than a half tidy full suss emtb.
@@jonm7272 Yes it's nice to have several bikes to enjoy. If I could only have one of my bikes it probably would be the new lightweight Trek Fuel EXe 9.7 as it is so versatile ,quiet and great to ride without the motor On. I find 50 Nm is way enough if you mainly ride alone .
Is it possible to bunnyhop a hardtail emtb on flat ground (e.g up a curb)? Given its weight I would think that you'd definitely need a rear suspension to assist with getting some air from flat.
when I lock my rear suspension, it feels like somebody is kicking my ass constantly, no way I would switch to hardtail, aside from easier maintanance I dont see any advantage of having e-hardtail
I spent the first 43 years of my mountain bike riding on hard tails. Actually the first 30 years were on completely rigid bikes. Sure,I like the new suspension bikes, but nobody really NEEDs one .
