So crazy that I found this video. I literally have the Dynaudio Bm5a’s and have literally been considering getting the Genelec 8030c’s. Killer video man. Subscribed.
To me it's all about knowing your monitoring system. Every music I listen I listen through my monitors and headphones so I really know how things should sound when mixing. Additionally my headphones are quite linear in die lows and mids, my speakers are linear in the highs (room eq) so checking the mix using both works out just fine for me. Also I'm more the Scheps type of guy: less inserts, more parallel, no relative drastic decisions and always the same pleasent mix bus setup. I'm not saying that this is perfect in any way but it works out for me. I'm just used to it on an everyday basis for almost two decades now. And to be honest most problems become much more obvious when you got the right amount of harmonic content, which is something beginners don't realize.
Well, you can definitely hear the hard tweeters versus the soft tweeters even after correction. I don’t know what that really translates to in the final mix in terms of your mix decisions but it’s definitely there.
The main reason why I am considering upgrading is that my current speakers (Tannoy Reveal 502) have this constant hiss. Not very distracting when listening at a normal level, but very distracting when I listen at a low volume or not at all.
I have the Tannoy Reveals as well - real warm sound but I needed to upgrade for the same reason. Just picked up the Genelecs 8020A. My mixing friends say it’s worth it. Not sure if I should sell or keep the tannoys tho. What could I use them for?
Something that could fix this is toroidal power transformers. I have a pair of Pioneer RM-05 with a toroidal transformer and they're dead silent when they're not playing anything. Class D amps (in most 'budget' speakers) usually are the cause for this hiss.
I had Dynaudio BM5p (passive) monitors. I just listened to my mixes done in those on Eve SC205 monitors, and they're actually quite bad. On the other hand, mixes I've done EARLIER on Yamaha MSP5's sound really good. MSP series is fantastic. Great transient reasons, a bit hard/HS sounding, but in a good way, they really reveal problems in the mix well (H and HS Yamaha series are bad, they're just harsh, not as revealing). Dynaudios sounded quite balanced, but my experience is they didn't have as good transient response as other monitor series, and they were masking quite a lot of issues. Good speaker for listening, but not mixing.
I too have sonarworks it can only "fix" audio in the frequency domain vs the time domain. In the time domain there an be a lot happening especially with the low end, and that's why doing the appropriate corner traps and treatment is important.
£1500 will get you a superb 4-way Kali system that is the biggest no-brainer in music production. I have a pair of IN-5's strapped to the Kali WS-6.2 subwoofer and it sounds incredible in my treated mix room. 😎
the eq curve is only one thing but there are many other factors. (transient response, distortion threshold, precision of the stereo field, frequency range, etc.)
Great points! But my question to you is how much of this actually matters compared to everything else wrong with home studios? I think the next biggest thing is sonic image as that can't really be fixed with dsp from what I understand and it can really give insight into good mixing decisions. The other things I personally think are pretty trivial. Just my thoughts on this 🙂 thanks for sharing!
something about gens are the DYNAMICS. compared to my old focals I can really hear the diffrerences in volume between instruments. but also my ears have improved as time passes.
I can't put into words how valuable your video is. Quite likely, the most valuable video on the topic of studio monitoring. Your honesty and lack of fluff and hype is refreshing. Your video is a *MUST SEE* ❗️💯❗️
Hi there, do you have a video on doing acoustic treatments to the room? If not, can you please make one? Thanks alot, this video had great info that honestly everyone interested in good audio should see.
I think your room has a resonance around 395Hz. if you listen to the recording of the speakers during the chorus--when the band is playing a G Major--you'll hear that resonating frequency pretty clearly. this does not appear in the original recording. I wonder how hard that would be to treat that!
Wow you have a great ear! I've tuned my room and it's surprisingly flat after the treatment and EQ correction (+\- 3 dB at 1/24 Oct smoothing). But before treating there are always these little resonances that we need to deal with.
@@RaytownProductions wow! i'm dealing with a 13 dB fluctuation at the moment. Are you pretty happy with the speakers? I'm considering getting those with the subwoofer after I add a bit more treatment.
You didn’t really upgrade though. The genelec 8030 are the same class of speakers price-wise as the bm5. Maybe even “cheaper” because you’re paying for genelec name. Sonarworks is sub par because it isn’t built into the monitors. You should have spent a little more and gotten the 8330 because those have built in correction with DSP. I auditioned genelec today at sweetwater against Neumann and focal and the genelecs sounded the dullest.
When I say upgrade, I mean performance. The 8030s are significantly better than the bm5a from in room measurements of directivity and frequency balance. They "play nicer" in more rooms than the bm5as typically do because of their dispersion pattern. I don't personally like having DSP on the speakers because of the induced latency. It's there and can't really be removed If the speakers have on board dsp. If I need my speakers to not have the latency from sonar works, I can just disable it. It's a much better workflow for me. You can also adjust the target curve in sonar works to brighten the speakers up if you are used to that sound. Thanks for the comment! 🙂
Really a very informative video. I have a question, I am planning to buy a pair of Genelec 8030C monitors for my studio. My room size is 10x15 feet. So can you please share your opinions and suggestions regarding that?
Thanks for watching and the comment 🙂 you will love those speakers. I'm so happy with mine still! I have a good friend Jesco Lohan who is amazing when it comes to acoustics and his RU-vid channel (Acoustics Insider) is a gold mine for treating a home studio. He's brilliant and gives away tons of amazing downloadable files to help you treat a home studio. Check it out: ru-vid.com Be sure to tell him Bobby from Raytown Productions sent ya! 😀
Corrected dynaudio sounds like uncorrected Genelec.... :D ... so, buy Genelec and dont rely on fancy softwares ... best studio monitors brand of all times, and the 8030c is impressive for is price/sounds/size ratio ...
It's a great choice if you want an easy way to tune your room. Then you wouldn't need sonarworks or any other room correction software. For convenience, you probably can't beat it!
I have a GIK treated room BUT my room is the worst shape and the drywall is thin and there isn’t shit for insulation behind the drywall. So even tho the room treatment is solid I really needed the Sonarworks
It will be probably the biggest improvement to your sound and reliability of your mixes. There are other options, but sonarworks seems to be one of the simplest systems to implement. If you are on a budget, check out the arc system by IK multimedia
The system I have is pretty complicated and a little more flexible than GLM. But depending on my final results with phase aligning my sub with my monitors, I may consider the upgrade! Thanks for the comment.
@@RaytownProductions More flexibility doesn't mean you're getting better results. The 83xx series have built-in correction which is basically a different thing in comparison to computer/external EQ correction, as you're changing the input signal. GLM is just the tool to access the SAM feature that comes with the speakers. There's quite a difference between the 80xx series and 83xx series when it comes to room correction. It's not just a gimmick. Something you will realize once you know that the truly expensive "The Ones" come with SAM, too. That said, third party solutions are what they are: Third party solutions. They can never be perfect for all the possible conditions. You can use them for many set ups which itself is an advantage, but then how many monitors do you want to use and calibrate? Calibrating headphones is an easy thing to do for Sonarworks. But it's not so easy for speakers anymore. The fact that you will require a lot of look ahead if you want a realtime signal, you will also encounter latency unless you want to deal with some phase shifting. However, Genelec knows for sure what they are doing with SAM + GLM. I don't see Sonarworks being really able to competen with a SAM/GLM-Set-up. I'd even say it's pushing a combo of Sonarworks Reference with any Monitors out of the window in no time.
@@CGWS2011 I came here to say something similar but you said it way better than I ever could. Basically fixing the problems closer to the source is the key here. Genelecs for the win!
As long as you use something with EQ correction like sonarworks with your headphones, you will be in the ball park. Headphones are a very personal thing, so the only advice I can give you is to TRY them out if you can. See if you like how they feel and if it inspires you 🙂 Personally for me, I would recommend the AKG 371, DT880pro, and Sennheiser HD650. Those are probably the best bang for the buck you can find (based on science of course, and I've heard and used all of them previously - currently using HD650s)
Hi thank you so much for your very valuable demo. I have a question. What is the best way to do EQ ... via software or using a standalone equalizer ? i am a beginner Thanks a lot again and kind regards, gino
I tend to keep things simple and just use software to do the EQ adjustments. Sonarworks and ik multimedia arc3 were by far the easiest to use, but it can be done manually using software like room EQ wizard. Hope that helps!
@@RaytownProductions Hi thank you so much for your kind and very valuable advice I have been impressed by how smaller the differences between the two speakers become after EQ Amazing I have to study very seriously this topic I am quite surprised by the Genelec sounding better than the Dyna Their drivers quality must be excellent I still think that the drivers impact more the sound than the electronics after all To be honest the Dyna are on my buy list As satellites i mean ... because in a second time i would like to add two not too expensive subs ... one per channel Thank you very much again Kind regards, gino
I used Sonarworks for 3 years consistently. Still had translation issues. So much so I ended up selling it (mic and license.) Now I go without it. Still struggle with translation.
Might need to reference more. That should always be #1. We very quickly lose perspective, and having some songs to play that sound good can renew our perspective. Take breaks often!
I've had Yamaha MSP7's for over 10 years now and they're great, the only thing I added was a cheap Yamaha HS8S sub and then used sonarworks, worked like a charm in my 8mtr square room, but with two differing roof ceiling heights of 9' and 7' was flat down to 20hz... I've mixed and mastered my own albums and other clients albums just on those and they were fine... So true in knowing your speakers, your room... But after I treated my room it was a HUGE upgrade also, then I went overboard and got two more monitoring systems (all with Sonarworks) Yamaha MSP7's as initial mix monitors (as I know them so well), then Kali IN-8 V2 with 12" Kali Sub (Awesome step up by the way) and then for final mastering Jones Scanlon 10" Reds were just the cream on the cake for mastering and unbelievable, the good thing about the Reds is Sonarworks now can be loaded into the Jones Scanlon line of monitors so you don't even need to turn Sonarworks on for them now, and I cannot hear any compression at all on them, but the Kali's are VEEERY close also and AMAZING value for money.
Would these sound better than a mid range soundbar when i just move it and plug it into a monitor. I dont care for eq correction and room treatment. I just want good speakers for movies and games. I have a soundbar rn but if these are better i wouldnt mine upgrading. Also the only reason i am considering them is because i can get them for cheap
I think so. The biggest downside to these monitors is in the sub frequencies below about 55 hz. If you can pair them with a subwoofer, you will be very happy :)
Great suggestion! The genelec room correction is honestly better than sonarworks, but it's only available on the monitors with onboard dsp (8330 series for this model). For the majority of home studio people, a setup like that is cost prohibitive, so solutions like sonarworks are a great compromise.
This your conclusion is flawed. If you didn’t have sonarworks, the differences matter. Sonarworks is correcting to the same “benchmark” for both sets of speakers. Of course they sound similar with the correction shooting for the same end goal… Not saying more expensive is always better, but yes, sonarworks will make them sound the same. Sonarworks uses the linearity from system to system or headphone to headphone as the selling point to colleges.
@@RaytownProductions wow. Do I need smaller sized guitar tracks if blending 2 mics per side as in less loud? So the guitar buss isn't so loud ? Some say it doesn't matter some do.... its maddening
The Evo 65 measured pretty well too! I think they are another solid choice. They might go a little deeper in frequency than the genelecs. But the genelecs are a better design overall if you want a flat freq response. I would suggest listening to both and if you can afford it, buy both sets and listen in YOUR studio. Then return the pair you don't like, but come back here and let me know which you picked ;) Cheers!
I disagree. Can barely even notice the difference. Not enough difference to justify upgrading. Its like when they compare a $2000 mic to a $100 mic, going in a blind test, nobody can tell a difference. I think it's just in your head.
They definitely do, but the problem is still that everything will change once you bring them into your studio. And without having a reference that you know well (like your current speakers) it's so hard to know if what you are listening to is actually better or not. Just my opinion here and something I struggled with when trying to figure out what the best speakers would be for me. Something to at least consider 🙂 thanks for watching and the comment! Cheers man!
Good video! But if one's a mixing-/masteringengineer and have trained/experiences ears at some degree. The difference from cheep monitors to real monitors is so big u cant even start to imagine, and yes they WILL make the mixes/masters better and translate better, period. (i'm not talking about rubbish ones like Gens 8030, i'm talking about high end reference monitors like, Kii Three, Dutch & Dutch 8C, Barefoot MM series, ATC SCM25 and above (with sub), etc etc. There is gonna be a price tag, but it will make a HUGE difference.)
The measured speaker performance isn't great from any of the speakers I've seen from that company. I've never tried them in my studio though. I'm a scientist, so I trust the data over a potentially biased opinion 🙂
Amen , just got the a7x demos from GC perfect demos for 425 each. Insane!!! You can't get them much longer, there discontinued. Hope you are still luvin yours
"...and later in the show, we'll tell you 10 amazing secrets on how you can achieve life changing mixes." OK, I made that up, but the video definitely did sound like an infomercial. Came here to listen to the video titled comparison between Dynaudio vs. Geneltec, but there was WAAAAAY too much talking about everything but. Raytown, my man, pick a topic and spend 5-10 minutes talking about just that.
Room correction software can introduce more problems, than it tries to solve. The only solution that really works is the extremely pricey trinnov dmon.
Why do you say that? I'm curious because there aren't many differences between trinnov and the room correction I show in the video... Looking forward to your reply 🙂
@@ezrashanti Interesting! They both perform phase and EQ correction. Have you tried to record the output back to see how flat the response actually is? Thanks for the reply!
@@RaytownProductions Trinnov gives a lot of info in the graphs. It's very tweakable but a wormhole I cannot go that deep into. Genelec calibration for one tries to protect the headroom of the speakers so they can reach reasonable levels comparable to what they advertise without clipping. So it will never boost more than 3db. And it has a limited amount of bands. Trinnov obviously doesn't know which speakers you're using and it will do whatever you want, if you're willing to give up headroom for more correction. I think they are both great companies but I don't think many people would argue that Genelec calibration is competitive with Trinnov if not considering overall cost of the system. Genelec makes it convenient. I think with enough skill you can get there with a calibration mic and REW. Trinnov uses a special microphone with four capsules that are closely spaced so it's taking in a lot more information about reflections and timing to make its calculations as well. I'm no expert on acoustics but I've had the opportunity to experiment with various digital correction softwares/systems and I've found Trinnov to be the best by a significant margin in our less that ideal (but still heavily treated) room.
