Pen is such a flop flopper, I mean I understand wanting to make the guest feel comfortable and not being confrontational, but this thing of pretending that the so called "Xenophobia" is not justified and it's something that only happens in South Africa is a part of the problem, go see how Tunisia treats black immigrants and then tell me about being Xenophobic🤞💯
I asked someone the other day, when you say South Africa is xenophobic, who exactly are you referring to? This term, coined by an American white woman, seems to target no one but black South Africans. Are you accusing white youth, the white demographic, Indians, or Coloureds? The answer is none of the above. This stigma is directed solely at black South Africans, and it's a term that has never been tested in court. White individuals, white-owned media, and black neoliberal elites have let this narrative persist without question. It's not as if they challenge anything else either. What’s worse is that our so-called leaders have allowed this lie to take root. It’s well-known that mob justice is often used to deal with crime in South Africa, and the state and constitution have failed to ensure the protection of its own citizens. In our own country, we are made to feel like enemies, while foreigners seem to feel entitled to privileges you wouldn’t believe. For instance, Zimbabweans and other Africans took the issue to the High Court in Bloemfontein, asking to be allowed to practice law in South Africa-a request that would never even be entertained in their own countries.
He thinks himself a "pan-Africanist", so naturally he will feed into these narratives that we are "brainwashed" and suffering from "post apartheid trauma"... Whats equally disturbing to me about these pan African theorists is that they will never address or deal with the inherent issues of disagreement that separate us as Africans. They would rather use the white master narrative to say that they are the cause and without them our issues are solved... This is dangerous, because we've had issues amongst ourselves, way before a white man set foot on these lands. tribalism has thankfully not gotten to a point in Sa to where we fundamentally disagree with one another and we are at war and i think that is because our tribes and clans are very much interconnected and similar - even extending to broader SADC region. In Nigeria now, they are faced with an issue (which sure was created by the white man who grouped together), where Igbo & yorubas are at odds & disagree on fundamental cultural things that have the capability of tearing that country apart. Now imagine a South Africa, 1000 years from now where the tribes of this nation are a minority/no longer exist and we have this pluralistic society where the essence of this country is no longer... This is the same thing European countries are themselves fighting against
True that! And we must confront and remove our own politicians that have made us migrate to other countries. Many young foreigners dont even bother to go back and vote. WTF
I often wonder why some people deliberately choose to conflate illegal immigration with legal immigration. The UAE being discussed involves individuals who are there legally, and no country in Africa is 'full' of illegal immigrants. It is as though South Africa is the only country being expected not to enforce its immigration laws. The fact that illegal immigrants are consistently mentioned in the same sentence as legal immigrants is baffling, and it seems that none of your guests are willing to distinguish between the two. Moreover, some individuals aren't even here on skilled visas. South Africa is uniquely burdened with this issue; in Limpopo alone, over two million illegal foreigners are receiving healthcare services. Stats SA seems to be struggling to provide accurate numbers on illegal foreigners, as gathering data on something that is illegal is inherently difficult
Bruh. These face palm responses about pivotal issues on such big platforms are truly embarrassing. You’d even find reputable news agencies deliberately conflate the law.
@@peacenation9338 My brother, I tell you, I was reviewing Namibia's immigration and citizenship laws-they are strict. Why does South Africa seem to be this Pan-African utopia where everyone feels entitled to come and stir up chaos, as if we're some sort of gateway to Timbuktu? I don't see other African countries offering South Africans citizenship or permits, nor do we have the freedom to easily establish communities in places like Zimbabwe or Nigeria. Yet, everyone seems to want a piece of this country. With this neoliberal constitution, as we say in isiXhosa, 'silahla imbo yethu ngo phoyiyane'-we are losing our identity carelessly, I tell you.
@@Tee-e4ithere are many xhosa people again here in Zimbabwe, they were brought by colonizers, xhosa language is taught as school were these communities live
The irony of even mentioning Dubai, where they dont play or mince words about citizenship...Any foreigner there, knows their place and knows that they will never be Emirati, even if they spend decades there and have children there.. Yet this lady is foolishly comparing the situation here with the UAE. Getting citizenship in Singapore is even harder, if not equally as hard.lol. Particularly if you are not asian!!They literally tell foreigners when they reject them that they are trying to preserve the "cultural" integrity of Singapore, which we all know what that means...So this woman is spewing hot garbage, like we are dumb school kids who dont travel or know whats happening in other countries
If foreigners were a problem Abantu would have done something about the europeans, americans, and asians in this country. Every time we have an issue we look for anything that looks like us and say it is the problem.
This is dumb. Abantu usually have an issue with what they see in front of them. Black foreign nationals are directly competing for jobs that black South Africans are competing for and the stats are there. Unemployment for South Africans is high, while foreign nationals work. You're politicizing a simple matter with complex issues and you think you're more intelligent than millions of black South Africans who clearly see a problem.
@@levikalombo1630 Europeans are less likely to kidnap,rob or selling drugs to your children. You won’t leave your house and expect Asians to hijack your car but you cannot say the same with black immigrants.
Mxim. Pen is an idiot and he compromises serious conversations. It's his channel and his guest, he can ask whatever he wants. However, I hope he knows that the line ends there. A conversation for South Africa and the complexities around this issue is not what's happening here.
@@peacenation9338 the thing is if they acknowledge any wrongdoing from their side it will nullify all of their lies and false stories, which is that they are being mistreated for no good reason, what's more fucked up is that they say nothing when some of them further continues to do all of these crimes in our country 💯🤞🤦♂️
Very shallow because she feels it’s right for SA to be clogged up by illegal criminals. You can’t enter UAE via some old rattled wire fence with R150 on hand. It’s a disappointing show this one.
Penuel you are from the Congo, we are South Africans my ancestors are South African Khoisan and tswana from the Northen cape, never been up north, we don't subscribe to history written by people who arrived in ships, speak 4 yourself man
For starters maybe compare Apples with Apples,UAE is on another Level therefore South Africa should never be placed in that type of category she set herself up on that one,seems like your guest feels like she should be immune to South Africans daily struggles etc Crime,Limited Resources,as they say if South Africa is no longer fit for purpose,maybe she should consider a move to the UAE,until she encounters an Emirati having a bad day,her trek back to RSA,would be⚡️
Jesus guide me. I’m overwhelmed as a single mom both of my sons are special needs and require so much from me especially now that school is starting. Jesus I need your help providing for my children so that they may have all they need. Lord I’m constantly struggling each month to pay rent and I struggle to buy groceries, for my sons I’m ashamed. Hear my prayers help me overcome these obstacles. you are my strength❤️💕
I have some theories why: - SA got independence in the 90s, 30 years later than most african counterparts, an influx of foreigners made them feel threatened just after achieving independence. - divide n conquer: both by black & non-black people in power, typical move by politicans in immigration warped circles, give you an enemy that isnt the true one - education: the mzansi black populace gone to university have been low and caught up now, poor education, poor thinking eg xenophobia - SA is arguably the most developed economy & country in Africa , or at least once was at its peak. This is then attractive to foreigners, who brought competition, harder work and thus jealousy etc - ironically a working govt: very very very few African countries offer welfare or UIF to citizens, hardworking foreigners coming in was just a bad recipe as adages such as “they are taking our jobs came in”. BEE has done a lot and those opportunities are hard to find elsewhere in Africa, its almost like a culture clash - Crime: it would be unfair to NOT admit that there are several foreigners who have engaged in illegal criminal activities, it doesn’t help the divide P/s: i am sorry if my comment offends anyone, i was thinking out loud with an attempt to answer THE WHY. I love SA so much and consider it my true 2nd home, shout out to all wonderful folk i met there. Lastly, I hope Africans unite and love each other, screw these divisions and lines from a conference in Berlin. Peace ✌🏽 -
In glad you mentioned the Berline Conference in 1884...most people sadly do not know where the "Borders came from".....I do love South Africa as it is a country I grew up in and has helped me n my family with economic opportunities. what I detest is the hate amongst blacks and the rise of politicians using "illegal foreigners " to get votes for popularity contest not really affording opportunities to skill the unemployed youth and grow the economy
Your theories seem to not [fully] account/adequately address the realities on the ground, which lets me know that you are writing this from the perspective of a foreigner who lives in SA but hasn't had much experience with living amongst our most disenfranchised natives or you've managed to lead a privileged life that you naturally want to protect, but should acknowledge that it shields/prevents you from acknowledging some very harsh truths... Let me address your points: - Yes SA received an influx of AFRICAN foreigners, post 1994, but the reality is, unlike places like America and the UK, a majority of migrants who came here weren't skilled. Most would have been the poor, uneducated migrants, fleeing war torn areas in Africa or seeking refuge here... This one fact, addresses many of your later points, like increased crime rates and undercutting of local labour with cheaper labour - - NONE of this has anything to do with feeling threatened. In fact, framing it that way is rather insulting and goes with this narrative that many are pushing that South Africans are lazy and fear competition. - The notion that we are poorly educated and are "jealous" of hardworking migrants further feeding into this "xenophobic" mindset is also reductionist and fails to properly assess the situation... If this was indeed the case, then why did it take so long for this supposed jealousy and envy to kick in? Foreigners were living here for many years post 94, why did "xenophobic attacks/sentiments" only start being a thing in the late 2000s? I can tell you why, and it has nothing to do with lack of education and "jealousy/envy" as you people would put it.. It has everything to do with economic and social conditions within this country... As I noted earlier, an influx of poor migrants who come from harsh places and cant easily find employment, will lead to them resorting in crime. Naturally the level of violent crime will also increase as these people come from areas of conflict an over time this behaviour will become adopted by locals as well...Which is why you see high crime stats in our major cities and places where there are large immigrant communities and from there it spreads across the country... This is not me trying to say that SA wasn't itself a violent place before immigrants. This country has a long history of violence, but that said, we dont have a history of the types of violent crimes we are seeing today and thats just a fact. Then lastly, without writing a whole book on youtube comments, laying the blame on our government is half the problem...We can never achieve unity in/of Africans when Africans are unwilling to address truths about themselves (South Africans and foreigners) and we can't keep blaming a white man as the source or originator of all our problems.
@@tspen4128 i really appreciate your critique and vantage point. I stand corrected and convinced me over around 90%. Yes, I did live a privileged life as a foreign student for 6 years in CPT, to digress i actually found it hard to either meet black south africans that are actually from capetown. I can only rebuttal or explain my view on one point:educat, having done grade 12 in SA and my home country it was just too easy for me and other foreigners I came with. Where South Africa wins is quality universities. I met some people from townships who told me they are the first to go full uni in their families, this is unlike places like Ghana, Zambia, East Africa and not to mention Zimbabwe whom I think have had the highest literacy levels in Africa and really bright students. Anyway not sure if i even explained that well, but I really like your insights, One thing that crossed my mind now, I am now living in my 5th country away from home and I meet many africans however South Africans are hard to come across. I envy the patriotism but in a way I wish other south africans could experience Africa as much others do.
@@MrMthethwa86 🔆he's a flip floper man🤦♂️ I understand that he doesn't want to make his guests feel uncomfortable by challenging their views, but when he goes on to just agree with them without putting context or an opposing view, cause there are people who are only gonna hear this and then solidify their opinions that South African are Xenophobic and its unjustified🤦♂️🚮
She speaks so highly of Dubai but has nothing, even remotely positive to say about SA, yet SA is the country she sought refuge in.🤔Go be a global orphan in Dubai sis. She should be talking about Cameroon and what chased her out of there instead of pointing fingers at SA and our problems. We know what our problems are, just because the roof is leaking does not mean we should not take out the trash!
Very reminiscent of the Rwanda genocide. You are dehumanising people, calling them trash. The perpetrators of genocide in Rwanda did just the same thing, except they called their victims cockroaches. Absolutely disgusting words and sentiments. The apartheid régime dehumanized people like you. Were they correct?
Why this foreigners they unite in south africa in the name of africans 😂really funny 53 countries in one country population of south africa 🇿🇦 is growing every fast
South Africa is untafrican, do they know they are Africans? Do they know south Africa is in Africa? They are starting a generational war that will be fought by their children and the children of foreigners when your generation is gone. Are foreigners the economy of south Africa? Let us say all foreigners go today, Are we going to find employment tomorrow? Is the economy going to be stable over night, ignorant people are being fooled by politicians and people who are fighting to establish their own agendas only known to them. Let me say to other African countries don't do what done to foreigners by some south Africans. This is inhumane, which democracy are they preaching about?
In every country u'll find people who will hate foreigners. I'm in the UK from Zimbabwe. Have lived in the UK for over 30yrs, longer than I've lived in Zimbabwe, always worked and pay my taxes. Still treated like an illegal immigrant, second class citizen and I'm still told to go back to my country. I'm on my journey back home.
Dzokai kumba vanhu Zimbabwe is a great country nyika dzevamwe ndedzekutsvaga Mari while you establish something back home for yourself. Try your level best to bring that UK back home, many UK based Zimbos are doing great stuff here kumba, varikumhanyidzana ne land iya yavaimbotukira baba Bona vachiti hapana zvavakaita, mu land imomo ndomavarikuita zvidori nezvidavodo. Dzokai kumba vanhu
Thank for telling the truth it like that and one day Zimbabwe when in prospers ,and immigration is too much,you will understand. But maybe you will not have the same problem as us South Africans, Because your government is very strict.
Just for views and relevance, you will support illegal activity, Prostitution, fatherlessness and political criminals, I watched many of your shows, you've taken some time to reveal what you really endorse and promote. If this was a real convo you would ask real questions, not sentiments.
Let's leave colonization hatred en all the other childish argument on this _ my question ⁉️ is why this spirit of togetherness oneness whatever you may call it _ it supposed to happen here in SA _ where these foreign nationals comes from they don't even like each other _ but here it suppose to be togetherness
She failed to intergrate herself in cote d voire her native country, what are the chances she will intergrate herself into SA? We got Chinese, Koreans, Indians, ethiopians even somalis in SA that make an effort to speak our languages and learn our way of life without being entittled to anything.
That is most likely colorism, i.e. "lighter skin people are better than dark skin people", this is something a South African youtuber explained where he stated that White people are seen as "Rich" in SA. By the statistics and facts, there is no difference between those groups of people and black African immigrants, if you disagree then IDK, blame the facts... I mean look at the most famous South Africans, yellow bone, white or coloured... No wonder SA is a failed state.
Being a Nigerian is the most wonderful thing that can ever happen to anyone, the only problem of others who worry about their lives when they encounter Nigerian is the feelings that Nigeria doesn't give a spoon with teeth about them
What is it about south africa Im starting to wonder now Why people dont wanna leave Why people want to be south Africans Can i be a Ghanaian or Malawian
@@ricaard6959You hypocrites, what about you foreigners. Busy pointing out SA wrongs while you also are doing wrong to SAns. Fix yourselves first before pointing fingures. SAns are Xeno good! Go where you won't experience it, simple! the world is huge for you travellers😂😂
@@comrade9374.but South Africa hates even legal immigrants... they want everyone gone...that's why they were angry when the minister Motsoaledi lost Zim permit case... in other words they wanted those who were legal to be illegal and go back home
The question is still not answered by the guest. Every city in South Africa has illegal people that have different names for every province they live in order to get away undetected from criminal activity. It’s so easy to call yourself “James” in East London then Martin in Cape Town. They must use the right channels to live here so that they too suffer the consequences for doing crime.
UAE has a good economy,their locals don't have to struggle for resources and compete with immigrants. Let's be realistic ,when people don't have to struggle for the basics of course they act nice and welcoming. We on the other hand are not only dealing with our issues with poverty but the influx of other poor African nations as well. This now makes us scramble for resources and for the bare minimum. People are not nice when they're hungry,especially when they thought hunger would end after apartheid. We have to not only speak of the after effects of things but also the roots and causes . Also UAE puts it's citizens first,you'll never hear that in the UAE a foreigner gets assisted before a citizen.
You made a very good point here It's tough in SA. I witnessed it as a Nigerian There are little jobs and the Government needs to create more to meet targets for citizens
Let me get this right are these people that are going to Dubai...which is so welcoming lol...the same people that are coming to South Africa...I think not ...Trust me if foreigners were building South Africans...most South Africans won't be complaining...unfortunately for them we already have terrible examples of were most foreigners occupied...I.e Hillbrow and other areas of the country. I think we can learn a lot from Orania lol...how they operate there ( despite them being racist) they don't allow any person to stay there who doesn't share their values n look at the results they're having ...low levels of crime..90%+ of people there being employed n contributing.
Them coming here is a heavy burden...I'm tired on us focusing on the few 10 people that are exceptions and forgetting about the 100k of people that are unskilled coming over here and not contributing.
Yes, if all foreigners were to leave South Africa, that problem would really be solved. She speaks highly of Dubai and Singapore but still returns to the country that makes her tense. Foreigner's presence make South Africans tense all the time. As a South African, I can hardly walki in Hillbrow, Randburg, Point, Sunnyside, Sea Point, Kempton Park without feeling tense IN MY OWN COUNTRY! She and her foreign ilk can excuse us by taking themselves home. Sidikiwe mgoku!
foreigners means in south africa Black africans only not white Chinese or asian what is the different between foreigners & immigrants !? ppl don't no this difference i think this problem afro phobia not Xenophobia
Pen is supposed to put thing things in their right perspective. He should not be asking questions like "Are foreigners a problem in South Africa", no one ever said foreigners are the source of our problems, illegal foreigners exacerbate the problems we have in South Africa, for example, the problem of unemployment is not getting solved because of people who accept wages at far below the minimum rate, and as such there are employers preferring those people who accept low wages. Problems caused by illegal immigration are too many to list them here.
I like the way they compare SA 🇿🇦 to international countries. If its not Dubai , definitely it will be UK 🇬🇧 or America 🇺🇸 😂😂😂. Nikhona, nah? While the Giants are breathing through the wounds comparing their country with SA😂😂😂. Mmmm
I believe that South Africans are not inherently xenophobic. As a foreigner sharing an office with South Africans and socializing with them after work, I haven't experienced any xenophobic behavior-unless it’s being hidden from me. Some issues stem from foreigners themselves; when living in another country, it’s important to respect local laws. I also think that the narrative around xenophobia is often fueled by political agendas. That’s my perspective.
Now because the other kids are saying those kids are Nigerians it's wrong but Zulus are calling other people izilwane you don't talk about it to much. Each and every person says what suits him/her there's no writte person
I appreciate legal foreigners who add value in our country. But what South Africans hate is foreigners who seem not to appreciate, talk bad, not defend SA but instead indirectly bash the country hosting them while they benefit. E.g she mentions Dubai & how free foreigners are but leaves out that the UAE has banned Nigeria Visa, just as many countries have. Why? It seems non appreciative & we have a problem with such people. They lack "proudly SA" spirit even when they've received permanent residence.
There is a joke (or maybe not a joke) of the 2010 World Cup as an example... Jet-loads of fans from other African countries came to watch the soccer, and only the crew of the Jets returned to their countries.
@ricaard6959 Immigrants like to use this "Xenophobia" term to make South Africans feel guilty for point out what illegal immigration has done to this Country, as if you will walk into their country and be welcomed with flowers.... Growing up in the Township there has always been foreigners, but the past 15years or so, it has changed South Africa to a unrecognizable country, especially the inner Cities. Its really bad! Therefore, we should not be made to feel bad for pointing out what's wrong in our country. If people feel we are "xenophobic" for pointing out what has gone wrong, it's simple, feel free to go home. Some of us who felt the same way having lived in other countries, we have come back home. Simple.
If you start coparing SA to the other countries,then it becomes a problem. I live in that country you are talking about, but thrir immigration systems are not the same. SAns have neen angry with the governments around immigration, but talking into deaf ears. It is the frustration.
I agree we must not become xenophobia yes we must be against illegal to but we muat accept people who have lived here and call this place home and make a positive contribution
Let me clear it up in South Africa after we got our freedom as south Africa we did not get a chance to grow as a country soon after our freedom people do start moving in to South Africa our people were pushed aside to make place for people from Africa then the drugs an weapons an carjacking start people start coming in tru the back door
Oh no no no I was busy watching something and I saw they burnt a South African passport of a foreigner and only if u knew how many South Africans come to my country illegally.
The Arabs in the UAE dont allow all Nigerian men below the age of 30 to enter Dubai, so dont come and tell us about the Dubai. Dubai does not provide foreigners with grants, tender and free education and free health care. Secondly SA is not Dubai. SAcn never said foreigners are real problem in SA but all we are saying is that we only need foreigners with critical skills in SA. SA cant continue being a human dumping side of Bangladesh, Pakistan, India, China and African failed countries. Those who are not happy about the treatment they receive in SA are free to go to Dubai and other countries that will treat them with kids gloves
I think you don't have men in your country. If you really have men kwerekwere was not going to father any child from your country ladies. Bonga nje ukuthi liyazekelwa likhona liphnde lisetshenzelwe likhona lingenzilutho.Lingamadoda bani lina elizekelwa likhona?Lingamavila mukho monke nje.
