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Are great games being ignored? An investigation 

Nick Caston
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Do great games sell themselves? Let's take a look at some of the highest rated games on Steam and see if we can find any hidden gems. What can we learn from them?
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#gamedevelopment #videogames #indiegame #steam #marketing

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28 сен 2024

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Комментарии : 2,2 тыс.   
@Lantalia
@Lantalia 2 года назад
Niche games tend to be much more highly rated because those of us that know we aren't going to like them ignore them automatically. The rating is much more an indication of how accurate the games impression is to it's quality within its niche
@NickCastonNZ
@NickCastonNZ 2 года назад
Well put!
@ezraho8449
@ezraho8449 2 года назад
That is probably also the same reason the anime games are highly rated but low income. It’s a small community that is super focused and dedicated.
@MINIMAN10000
@MINIMAN10000 2 года назад
@@ezraho8449 I was 5 seconds into the video when I was like "I really hope we ignore niche's where you obviously love what exists but will filter out anyone who isn't the target audience like visual novels" Yep. Fortunately he did. Was so glad he was brutally honest because it pretty much mirrored my thoughts on things as well. You can tell when things are off when you come from an outside perspective. Also the final conclusion that taking into consideration community and shareability of a game I feel was both blatantly obvious as I'm constantly pulling up twitch streams and reddit pages to see content. But I had no real way of grounding this sort of thought in reality. It's one thing to think it, but it's another to be able to compare similar games with different outcomes, Statistics.
@fridsrikenileri1268
@fridsrikenileri1268 2 года назад
Yeah. And also higher probability to get dragged into "mainstream AAA" games by friends. And they don't wanna do the same with the niche games.
@RhizometricReality
@RhizometricReality 2 года назад
Gotta recommend Neon Tail
@DynamicUnreal
@DynamicUnreal 2 года назад
This is a great video. Continue to make more!
@Nimmermehr666
@Nimmermehr666 2 года назад
"Mom, can I play Hollow Night?" "We have Hollow Knight at home" Hollow Knight at home: *Space Gladiators*
@lizardy2867
@lizardy2867 2 года назад
18:12 What have we learned? Abstract art requires viewers to value it, whereas basing in familiar concepts allows users to value it at a baseline of what they know that concept to be. A game where all is possible, yet all it is said to be, is a game of infinite possibilities. A game where all is possible, and is visualized via its ability to replicate the experience of other games, as well as indicating completely new experiences. TLDR: You're selling a product, a game, not an idea or reality. People are less likely to take an invite to a museum as compared to a restaurant. *NOTE*: To dabble in neutrality for a second, don't forget that sometimes people simply like to make art, and the success of that art is secondary to the experience or message they want it to present.
@giangabriel6111
@giangabriel6111 2 года назад
so being a artist it's not an actual profession but just people playing around?
@astrah982
@astrah982 2 года назад
Simple concept: People buy what they know from authors they perceive to know. This is why you should make some kind of personality presence online first, even if it's smaller, but always remember social media is only a formality and don't look too much at others accounts, you're there for the players only, know your purpose.
@ArtucoDev
@ArtucoDev 2 года назад
1:04 ultrakill on the top, cant believe it!
@weakamna
@weakamna 2 года назад
I think for marketing, a small edge could account for a larger gap in exposure, given that if you get even say 10 more "Superfans" which evangelize your game, that converts to 100s or even 1000s of people going "hmm, that sounds interesting, I'll try it", which itself converts to 1000s to 10000 more "impressions".
@astrah982
@astrah982 2 года назад
That's exactly right. It seems to me it's all about those initial superfans that push it. It's disappointing that many creators then get very popular through those 10 people, but then often they drop off from their posse eventually and they forget about them later.
@gamerguy4478
@gamerguy4478 2 года назад
It’s a shame Levelhead wasn’t mentioned, given it was on the list of games narrowed down to. That game’s great and never got it’s chance to shine.
@PHeMoX
@PHeMoX 2 года назад
Is it really though? It's pretty much just another slightly more difficult than usual platformer. It also has a marketing problem, being sold as a 'level maker' game. I understand the game's premise, but potential buyers will avoid what looks like a not free level editor for sale... Compared to other direct competition, it's probably not that good at all.
@yigittuncel4003
@yigittuncel4003 2 года назад
Great watch! In a future video you might consider zooming in to the top left part of the distribution too! Would be interesting to see horrible games with high revenue
@oddfellow8366
@oddfellow8366 2 года назад
Great information.. yes, it's primarily marketing, but you zoomed in a bit further in to what Marketing really means and how a gamers mind can work, at least for this specific genre of games.
@lucaswatson5845
@lucaswatson5845 2 года назад
I can actually give a word in about one of the games shown in this video (Recursed) and say that it is one of the coolest puzzle games I've played, even though it looks deceptively simple. Other than the superficial connection that its mechanics are largely analogous to many concepts in computer science (stacks, global variables, contexts, and pointers, among other things), it's exceptionally intricate (and difficult), with many of the later puzzles making me feel like I've expanded my brain to solve them. It's even managed to have a professional research paper published about its mechanical complexity. It's *definitely* niche, though. I only learned about the game through a personal recommendation, and I wouldn't be surprised if that's how most people who played it found out about it. I don't have too much to say on the subject of the video itself, but I did want to take this opportunity to attest to one game's quality.
@crimson406
@crimson406 2 года назад
As soon as he said that, I loaded all of the comments on this video and did a Ctrl+F for "Recursed" and you're the only one. :/ Recursed is and always will be one of my favorite games of all time.
@alasjoy7849
@alasjoy7849 2 года назад
It's a super great game and I'm glad someone recommended it to you!
@John-uh1pb
@John-uh1pb 2 года назад
Recursed really needs some love + polish on its art I think. The first glance impact isn’t great.
@user-gs8jv4oq6w
@user-gs8jv4oq6w 2 года назад
Great video, nice breakdowns clearly Explained. Subbed 👍
@three9855
@three9855 2 года назад
I see you showed a touhou game under anime games. Those at least sell very well but outside of steam mostly through physical sales, so one thing to account for is that certain games just do not have steam or digital marketplaces in general as their primary platform of distribution.
@DLBBALL
@DLBBALL 2 года назад
There are probably lots of reasons why the Steam versions of the official Touhou games aren't exactly big sellers. Here are some of my ideas: 1) The games are often (to this day) pirated by folks, for many possible reasons. Like someone could be from a developing country, where people have less money to spend on games. Or their PC might not even have an optical disc drive, making physical game copies useless. Or they decide to pirate it since they can't find the game on a common/favourite online video game vendor (like Steam). Or maybe even they don't think it's worth paying for the games at all and would rather they be free to play... 2) Official Touhou games have only started being released on Steam for 2-3 years now I think (correct me if I'm wrong), and lots of the games still have yet to receive an official Steam release. Lots of the official Touhou games are being released on Steam long, long after their original release (ex. Touhou 10 -Mountain of Faith originally released in 2007/8 I think) so it'd also make sense that they wouldn't be selling as much as they did back when the game was newer. 3) People who can't read Japanese have to manually patch the games to use fan localizations so they'd understand the game's text/dialogue, making the official games a bit more inaccessible to non-Japanese readers. 4) Lots of Touhou fans are fans of the series because of the wealth of fan content and not the official games, so only a smaller portion of Touhou's fan base actually goes ahead and plays the official games to begin with... Sorry if this was a long read.
@rankaisija_8837
@rankaisija_8837 2 года назад
Difficulty is probably also a factor
@songhill6962
@songhill6962 2 года назад
physical copies to digital copies sold ratio is only higher in japan (7:3) and looking at touhou's origin it's not surprising
@jeffe2267
@jeffe2267 2 года назад
His takeaway was specifically "not enough weebs on steam". He understood that the sales were a result of the game just not doing as well on Steam, you don't have to stand up for Touhou lol
@three9855
@three9855 2 года назад
@@jeffe2267 I just wanted to use Touhou to illustrate a broader point, hope that’s cleared up now.
@grass5183
@grass5183 2 года назад
There is an indie game called Post Void that is 2.99 on steam and like the 1993 DOOM on LSD. I have sunken many many hours into it and highly recommend it.
@unoriginalnickname
@unoriginalnickname 2 года назад
This is a fantastic video - the insights might not be earth shattering, but the fact that so much research has gone into it really makes it tangible. I would be very interested in seeing more investigations like this. The question I would pose is whether
@LightVelox
@LightVelox 2 года назад
This video actually gave me a lot of motivation, I wanted to make a Immersive RPG, but was afraid even if it was good it wouldn't get more than 2000, but considering good games here are making over 20k and still are considered to be performing badly i think i might have a chance
@LD-Orbs
@LD-Orbs 2 года назад
Go for it!
@sgtpepper91
@sgtpepper91 2 года назад
If you're an amateur looking to put out an artistic product and finance is your primary motivation - you've already failed.
@user-yl7kl7sl1g
@user-yl7kl7sl1g 2 года назад
He also didn't count any games with less than a certain number of reviews. This means, if a good game gets enough players it will get big. However he could have also missed tons of great games that never got discovered.
@denimchicken104
@denimchicken104 2 года назад
Answer: Mini Metro is like a slice of a city builder. Understandable and fun. Limelight is an abstract puzzle. Doesn’t scream “buy me. I’ll satisfy your needs.”
@minichou
@minichou 2 года назад
I wish point and click adventure games got more love, they're definitely a golden apple in a basket of regular apples. I love the Blackwell series and Wadjet eye games continue to create amazing games. I do like how Telltale games paved the way for story decision based games to get popular, but there still needs to be more of a push. I know it was a joke but it still hurt a little, the statement- " games aren't books", I feel like that's the driving force for why these games are so shadowed in the gaming community.
@jjb273
@jjb273 2 года назад
amen man
@Justin-ee1mv
@Justin-ee1mv 2 года назад
No worries, Each genre will always have its fan base and people who enjoy niche games or intriguing genres and themes will usually seek out games that are within their genre of choice
@sarcasmo57
@sarcasmo57 2 года назад
The wolf among us was pretty good.
@ariorick
@ariorick 2 года назад
There's definitely more conclusions to draw from this graph. It least I'd really want to see where the games I know are placed!
@johnyboy9647
@johnyboy9647 2 года назад
A game that I think that didn't get the recognition it deserved is Jet Lancer, it has solid game mechanics and a beautifull soundtrack plus the difficulty in completing all the chalanges
@tritoner1221
@tritoner1221 2 года назад
can you please publish an interactive version of the graph you made, so that we can just click anywhere and be taken to the game's corresponding steam page?
@iby_yt
@iby_yt 2 года назад
I would assume Mini Metro's more grounded premise, with the puzzles taking place in a city where you have to connect metro lines, makes it more approachable for most players. Besides that, I would also guess the randomness of the levels in Mini Metro, would help a lot with replayability, whereas the other seems to be a fixed puzzle, where when you complete one, there's nothing to replay when you already have the solution, would help a lot.
@Thmyris
@Thmyris 2 года назад
Minimetro looks much more colorful and more enticing than linelight.
@InfiniteCheeseCrates
@InfiniteCheeseCrates 2 года назад
I haven't even watched the video yet, but I've spent weeks just browsing the market both on steam and on switch, looking at game review sites and videos such as this, trying games when I thought I had found something decent only to return it 30mins later due to a lack of polish or bad choices. From what I've found, the main issue is; The market at the moment is just too saturated with indie titles, many of which are just simple low-effort knock-offs, use a game engine like RPG maker or Ren'Py with default values, or are low effort asset flips. Finding ones that are actually decent is extremely difficult unless they've managed to gain internet popularity. Compounded by; A- Many Dev's are younger and/or haven't been exposed to games that are in the genre they are making a game in. They may have played or seen a title played, but they have no concept of why ___ game works and theirs doesn't. (See the plethora of Metroidvania's that play like garbage.) B- Many games are only play tested by family/friends instead of random testers. The few that do, get games play-tested by random people on social media sites, where it's often taboo to be critical towards a game and/or their posts can be removed. C- Dev's releasing a half baked idea to Early Access, only for them to change the central gameplay loop(which was good) because they wanted to satisfy people leaving negative reviews. I feel like Indie Dev's are stuck in "Safe and Mediocre" mindset because of this, which is why there's such a plethora of Metroidvania's, Rogue-likes and Anime Visual Novels, but none of them want to put any effort behind them so they're forever stuck in a loop of mediocrity.
@astrah982
@astrah982 2 года назад
Game jam culture has NOT helped the gaming market in my opinion, it's almost at the heart of the problem. There are so many 'game jammer' types that I've meant, in where they could have created the next Final Fantasy and yet they're stuck creating Bubble Shooter 3000. They're aiming for mediocrity on purpose not realizing their own talent.
@ITSTAKING
@ITSTAKING 2 года назад
@@astrah982 I blame mobile games as what started the whole "your game can have mediocre single-finger gameplay, need the least amount of interaction and have poor production value but still sell millions anyway because most people wouldn't know any better" doctrine and thought process.
@Justin-ee1mv
@Justin-ee1mv 2 года назад
I mean some of those games do hit the spot for the folks seeking that niche genre, Even though they won’t see massive amounts, They still created something than it has a small fan based around it
@Trademarkk
@Trademarkk 2 года назад
"Return of the Obra Dimn" for me is the best example of a decent indie game that didn't received that much attention from the internet
@astrah982
@astrah982 2 года назад
@@ITSTAKING That's a really good point, mobile games for sure...I don't see why I didn't see that before, but I remember a game on the Nintendo Switch for 10 bucks in where you were a square jumping around sidescrolling fighting circles.
@s5ynth
@s5ynth 2 года назад
I think there's an issue with the idea that all games will have roughly the same number of people reviewing (and thus this can be used to estimate purchases). It would seem that more people would review the better/worse a game is, like a U shaped distribution
@angelo.strand
@angelo.strand 2 года назад
Yup that’s right, I only review if the game cured cancer or I wish I just burned the money I paid for it
@angelo.strand
@angelo.strand 2 года назад
Don’t really have a need to review average or just good games
@allNicksAlreadyTaken
@allNicksAlreadyTaken 2 года назад
Wilmot's is a fucking BANGER. It fills a niche, it's well made and makes my game designer heart feel all warm and fuzzy. It's a great game. You can't just filter out *everything* until there is nothing left to disprove your point.
@Youmu_Konpaku_
@Youmu_Konpaku_ 2 года назад
Pretty good video and data analysis, as a living breathing weeb i think most other weebs usually get their anime games on dl site, and the steam marketplace is usually filled with censorship which makes the games worse in some cases. That's why the weeb market is usually small, hope that explanation helps
@IntangirVoluntaryist
@IntangirVoluntaryist 2 года назад
good vid, good research, good method, good findings, good insights i give it a good rating ;)
@gringomoderfoquer8287
@gringomoderfoquer8287 2 года назад
Now I'm curious to know the top and bottom games of the graph
@antonsidorov7531
@antonsidorov7531 2 года назад
Great video! I admit, I was anticipating my own game published on steam to appear in the video in some way since it seemed like it hits all the sample criteria, but then I realized its in Early Access and the EA games were probably filtered too. Otherwise, the thing about "relatability of the concept" in my opinion plays the biggest part in Mini-Metro's success than others compared to Linelight. I am of course, biased being tied to my own impressions without analyzing them too deeply, but my initial reaction to both games was 1. I don't really understand what Linelight is supposed to be about and I'm not interested. compared to 2. Wow, is this a game about building the subway lines? Looks cool, I want to check it out. It really makes you think about how important "grounding" is. It is very difficult to make people care about new and abstract things, because you just can't connect them to the real world and your prior experinces. As a consequence, you don't really know what to expect, you don't understand what it's supposed to represent and this doesn't do good for your interest. Video games are "simulations" of the real world, fundamentally. At least this is how people seem to percieve them. And it makes sense, too. We play games to have an experince. And we can only desire things, including experinces, that we are to at least some degree familiar about. Anyway, again, great video. It's a pity there's so little content on this channel. I would galdly watch more of your videos.
@NickCastonNZ
@NickCastonNZ 2 года назад
Thanks! Your points are well put. And you are correct that I filtered Early Access and I'm now realising I failed to mention this in the video. I also filtered VR games. I'm hoping to make more videos, but it's tricky to prioritise everything as a solo dev (and I'm still new to making videos so each one takes quite a lot of effort for me). Good luck with your game!
@magnusquercu9905
@magnusquercu9905 2 года назад
Mind me asking what the name of your game is?
@antonsidorov7531
@antonsidorov7531 2 года назад
@@magnusquercu9905 Sure, it's a Tactical RPG called Shores Unknown. I'm not sure it's a good idea to link to it here, but it can be looked up on steam by name pretty easily.
@karhu7388
@karhu7388 2 года назад
Are great youtube videos being ignored? Sure seems like it.
@furanxx
@furanxx 2 года назад
Would be really curious to get your spreadsheet with all the games you included in the computation
@i-destroyer8707
@i-destroyer8707 2 года назад
I would like to know the equation you used to figure out how many people bought a game?
@ollie-d
@ollie-d 2 года назад
It’s interesting that this video came out when it did. I had just rewatched the GDC about Linelight, and had purchased it for iOS (since I was looking for a new puzzle game on the phone specifically) but hadn’t played it. From the description of the talk and the examples, it seemed like it was going to be an excellent game, and I knew that the developer didn’t want it to be on mobile so I was ready to take things with a grain of salt knowing I was getting the worse experience. I watch your video, and then played the game for the first time, and I think what you missed is that the general ambiance of Linelight feels off in some way. The game I had played right before Linelight on my phone happened to be Mini Metro, and that’s a game that works perfectly. It’s super minimalistic, the sounds are calming, and in general it’s exactly what I expected from looking at the screenshots. However, Linelight caught me off guard. I was expecting a different tone, can’t really say what, but the game isn’t what I expected. The puzzles are good, the mechanics are very clever, and in general I like the game, but I don’t think I’d really recommend Linelight where I would easily recommend Mini Metro. Obviously these observations were on mobile and are incredibly subjective, but I figured I’d chime in with my specific experience with the two games.
@JordanMetroidManiac
@JordanMetroidManiac 2 года назад
There’s a game called AI War that I’d rate extremely high, probably 10/10 if that was possible on Steam. It loosely falls under the 4X category. However, I can tell that the revenue from the game isn’t as high as the quality of the game might dictate. It’s a well-designed game that is very fun to play. However, it has a big learning curve. Once you understand it, it’s an awesome game, but you can’t just go and share it with friends because they’ll be quickly deterred by the complexity. So that’s my estimation for why it hasn’t blown up in popularity. The game even looks cool. The graphics are nice for a 2D game. The music is amazing. The sound quality is fine. But it’s tricky to learn how to play at first. So… yeah. That’s the only downside IMHO.
@postvideo97
@postvideo97 2 года назад
The "grand strategy" and "wargames" category is super niche, especially when the learning curve is steep. So if you want to maximize profit a dev should target and make his game similar to the kind of games like Civ V or Stellaris. Anything more complex like AI War or Wargame: RD will turn most players away...
@irrelevant_noob
@irrelevant_noob 2 года назад
Huh, it looks way more like a shooter than 4x. Also it was released less than 2 weeks ago. -.-
@postvideo97
@postvideo97 2 года назад
@@irrelevant_noob What game are you referring to? AI War was released in 2009 and Wargame RD in 2014.
@irrelevant_noob
@irrelevant_noob 2 года назад
@@postvideo97 oh, i just clicked on the first result for "steampowered ai war" ... app id 2052270. Guess you (and Jordan) meant 40400, the one with Fleet Command in its name?
@JordanMetroidManiac
@JordanMetroidManiac 2 года назад
@@irrelevant_noob That’s not the same thing. It’s by Arcen Games
@TheC3lso
@TheC3lso 2 года назад
This is real good content! Subscribed
@Uradamus
@Uradamus 2 года назад
Something worth considering as well is that a lot of casual puzzle games are quicker/easier to develop and thus don't need a crazy amount of sales to be successful. Something your analysis is sorely lacking is the investments required to bring each game to market. If I spent a 1000 hours developing a casual puzzle game, my threshold for success is far lower than a AAA game that say took a large studio the better part of a million hours or more to make.
@bulka5305
@bulka5305 Год назад
Amazing analysis, thanks
@thomasipad7719
@thomasipad7719 2 года назад
Very interesting analysis! Thanks
@Hawokki
@Hawokki 2 года назад
Mini metro is easier on the eyes and it is more relatable. You are playing with metro lines, so you kind of understand what you are doing. On linelight you just do some weird light stuff. It has replay value for it's randomized start. It's never 100% same game. Linelight has fixed levels and game is completely done after completion.
@Alte.Kameraden
@Alte.Kameraden 2 года назад
Because popular games 99% of the buyers never rate or review the game? Which allows dedicated trends to Inflate or deflate scores. Unpopular games draw in niche players who are more likely to review a game or give it a score just to give it more attention. A popular game, most people will not even bother as everyone already knows about it.
@Rogi8me
@Rogi8me 2 года назад
This video was very well put and A genuine investigation. 20 minutes Flew by so Fast
@Rogi8me
@Rogi8me 2 года назад
Sold me another game to play too
@PhantomEye11
@PhantomEye11 2 года назад
Honourable mention #1, Space Gladiators at 8:32 just looks like it’s mostly a Hollow Knight clone
@livinglegnd78
@livinglegnd78 2 года назад
Mini metro and mini motorways was in dunkeys best of video Which was seen by millions of people
@grimsum4916
@grimsum4916 2 года назад
I'd love a follow up video on the outliers. What game has the worst reviews but high revenue?
@qasderfful
@qasderfful 2 года назад
Mini Metro is brighter, bolder, reminiscent of Designers Republic works, and also more alive-looking than Linelight. It's minimalistic, but it *presents the concept it's trying to convey* very believably, while Linelight is a complete abstraction. People generally aren't that drawn to things they can't *touch*. That's the artstyle difference.
@wondertrot
@wondertrot 2 года назад
This was neat and interesting. I reckon it’d be cool to look at the opposite - what about the really poorly rated games which made a whole bunch of money on the top left side of the graph
@Ajan-X
@Ajan-X 2 года назад
Interesting video. I need more!!
@katyusha1283
@katyusha1283 2 года назад
Another thing to consider is that steam isn't the only game distribution service. Some games are also on steam but sell mainly on other platforms, hence their low income in steam.
@EnigmaticGentleman
@EnigmaticGentleman 2 года назад
I still think its a bigger problem than you think, look at Woodle Tree 2 Deluxe+ or Rainbow Billy Curse of the Leviathan, 2 VERY good games that collectively dont even break triple digit reviews.
@obbscur2
@obbscur2 2 года назад
Crosscode is a hidden gem i wish more people were aware of
@NordicNjal
@NordicNjal 2 года назад
The fact that you build things and it's yours... Makes perfect sense... Cities Skylines is the only AAA game made with Unity that truly stands out for me...
@MrJeekz
@MrJeekz 2 года назад
I worked at a company that made HOPA games and the overwhelming majority of the player base consists of US based stay at home moms and grandmas. No joke. That's probably why these point and click detective adventures don't do too well on Steam, whereas they do on other, more HOPA specialised platforms.
@leomack3295
@leomack3295 2 года назад
Hey on your graph there is a game that made an estimate revenue of 100, 000, 000 USD but was rated under 0.25, I was wondering what that game is, and why it sold so well?
@lifeinvader1016
@lifeinvader1016 2 года назад
Mini metro explains what it is in its title. What is a Line light? Also mini metro's steam art looks like a polaroid. Probably why many people clicked on it.
@TopPotato109
@TopPotato109 2 года назад
The most underrated game I’ve seen is “just shapes & beats”
@BeezOne84
@BeezOne84 2 года назад
"Games that look like shit" *shows Fight Knight* Now, listen here, boy!
@2dollarchickenwings689
@2dollarchickenwings689 2 года назад
Saying Fight Knight looks like shit is perhaps the single most offensive thing I've heard all month.
@bispo400
@bispo400 2 года назад
As soon as critters for sale flashed on the screen i opened steam to buy it lol
@keyserxx
@keyserxx 2 года назад
lol that menu system that allows you to delete your save game - ARE YOU SURE?! (cute box filling innocently) Boomerang X looks like Quake 2 CTF grapple hook SOLD!
@rjbiii
@rjbiii 2 года назад
My gut reaction to linelight vs mini metro is that linelight is more abstract and that could turn people off. Yes, both games are puzzles based on lines, but mini metro represents something that most of us are familiar with. I instantly opened up steam to check out mini metro when you mentioned it (partly because I love trains) but didn't get that intrigued looking at linelight cuz it's just too abstract. It may be a great game but it doesn't really inspire me to check it out.
@mimszanadunstedt441
@mimszanadunstedt441 2 года назад
limelight screens are too simple
@technomyke
@technomyke 2 года назад
high end youtubers doing lets plays have a huge impact on a games success.
@lordofthecritics
@lordofthecritics 2 года назад
Simple answer: There are around 8000 types of sports in the world but only a handful are extremely popular.
@patyos2
@patyos2 2 года назад
Basically games that are really niche only their extremely dedicated fans will buy the game and only their extremely dedicated fans will leave a review making their review scores extremely high.
@onceuponatimeonearth
@onceuponatimeonearth 2 года назад
Target audience size + presentation + general quality + fotm
@westganton
@westganton 2 года назад
Mini Metro appeals to me more than linelight because one is relatable and the other is abstract. To me, Mini Metro has a more meaningful concept
@tabletbrothers3477
@tabletbrothers3477 2 года назад
I learned about mini-metro though youtubers. I've never heard of linelight.
@iwanttocomplain
@iwanttocomplain 2 года назад
Mini Metro is an exemplary masterclass in indy game design. One glance is all it takes to grasp the concept. It’s presentation is flawless. Then when you play it, it plays exactly as you expected and the sound design is brilliantly relaxing. It’s production costs were probably minimal and simple to create. It made no mistakes at all. But overall it’s a perfect product, priced correctly. The game itself is unique. The world is tired of metroid-vanias and rogue-likes. It’s lazy cash grab game design chasing trends. So when a game is released that does something new well, it generally dies get recognition. Anyone can code and anyone can copy ideas. But not anyone can create a legitimately new gameplay concept. The maturity to think empathetically about your target audience will find its audience in general. But ultimately, Steam is overloaded with low effort cash grabs because it’s easy to release a game on there. So being a good game isn’t enough. The concept needs to be strong and unique in order to have value to the customer. Then the execution and presentation needs to be excellent. You don’t need marketing. There are so many bloggers looking for a game to rave about to get them views and cache that it won’t take long to surface from the trash if your game has merit and originality and charm. There is every level of execution and polish available on Stream from individuals to small teams. If there wasn’t the opportunity to make money, there wouldn’t be a thriving cottage industry supported by Steam. The problem with trying to correlate reviews and dividing by cost is that it doesn’t account for production cost, which is a stronger indicator of quality. Assuming a one man band is paying himself the average wage for their country times hours spent in development and costs incurred. The truth is that Steam is bloated but Valve decided to forego quality control a while ago and let the market decide. This resulted in a more dynamic/chaotic marketplace but did allow more experimental titles a shot, which might not have passed their checks and find a small audience them eventually a larger one. It’s inevitable that publishers will spend big money on games which were costly and find a wider audience but nobody is ruling out indy games when Minecraft is the top selling game ever by miles. I don’t think Mini Meteo has any marketing budget at all. The developers are just intelligent and talented and delivered a product that didn’t disrespect their audience by delivering an unpolished or derivative product. My advice to aspiring game developers is to target your audience. Make a game you would personally buy in a genre you enjoy. If it’s just you, you better be good at art and music and coding. Then find the bloggers that cover that genre and offer them a key and hope they cover it. If your idea is strong then you deserve success and you may well find it. There’s not much luck when it comes to Steam. If you make something worth celebrating then it will get picked up. But you can’t be big headed about how brilliant you think you are. You need to be realistic and empathetic and respectful.
@jeice13
@jeice13 2 года назад
Mini metros randomization also means if it gets streamed the audience still has a reason to buy it
@BrettTaylor1
@BrettTaylor1 2 года назад
Brett here! When I was making Linelight, I would often worry, "Why would anyone play this it's just a bunch of lines". There is a lot of love and heart in Linelight, way more than I expected when I started it, and I've gotta acknowledge I'm blessed to see it's received so warmly with audiences. My big takeaway here is a reminder of THE POWER OF THEMING. As is, Linelight presents great to the niche of minimalist puzzle game enthusiasts. Looking at Mini Metro, I think "I want to build a subway!" Linelight might be more like, "I have no frame of reference, let me read more up on it!" If I'd made it train-themed (or electricity, or anything really), it would 100% have captured a bigger audience. My pitch at conferences used to be a campy, "What do you think about LINES? here's a controller". Contrast that to a "What do you think about TRAINS? here's a controller". Themes are catchy, man. And it's a tough one as an artist, 'cause I think the lack of theme is what's made it so emotionally affecting for many folks, you kind of project yourself on the characters (there's a story that unfolds throughout the entire game.... it's easy to experience but difficult to describe). Most of the game is puzzles, though, and I don't think a theme would have been a detriment to them. So, without unpacking all the marketing/conferences/hustling/store-featuring, my current best hypothesis is this: In terms of sales for an abstract game like Linelight, a little theming can go a looong way. Thank you for this video, Nick! Very well researched, and very well assembled! Also, thank you for all your kind words about the game. I don't always know how to go about it, but I do know I'm here to bring y'all smiles and love and warmth. I'm gonna keep trying my best and learning as much as I can along the way!
@Myrvold
@Myrvold 2 года назад
What I'd be curious to know is if this video have brought any noticeable uptick in sales.
@BrettTaylor1
@BrettTaylor1 2 года назад
​@@Myrvold I wondered that right away too. 😅 Not much direct Steam sales impact, had a lil' 3-day bump of a few dozen extra purchases. So, nothing out of the ordinary. I mean, I'm always happy when new people get to experience the game. Go buy Linelight! Let's overtake Mini Metro and Nick will have to make another video about the impact of RU-vid comments!
@Myrvold
@Myrvold 2 года назад
@@BrettTaylor1 Interesting. Not that I expected thousands and thousands of new sales, but I actually thought it would be a bit more than it was. Thanks for answering! :)
@al.bay24
@al.bay24 2 года назад
​@@BrettTaylor1 This is probably the reason for Hook doing so well compared to Linelight.
@NickCastonNZ
@NickCastonNZ 2 года назад
Hey Brett! Thanks so much for sharing these insights! It's cool to hear the behind-the-scenes a bit. I find the point about players being able to project themselves onto the abstract visuals particularly interesting, reminds me of what people say about pixel art compared with high fidelity art - people can fill in the blanks much more liberally. Thanks for making Linelight! I look forward to seeing whatever you make next.
@magnets1000
@magnets1000 2 года назад
Look at games published on Steam by year. 2013 early access for mini metro. 2017 release for limelight meant there were 10x as many games released that same year.
@angelo.strand
@angelo.strand 2 года назад
Yeah it’s getting more competitive
@Megalomaniakaal
@Megalomaniakaal 2 года назад
That too, definitely. But I feel like the answer he landed on here is also relevant and correct. It's both of those.
@V2ULTRAKill
@V2ULTRAKill 2 года назад
@@Megalomaniakaal theres also the fact a lot of great independent titles fall under a niche that isnt as readily profitable as your main genre staples
@gamerinatrance3618
@gamerinatrance3618 2 года назад
This is true. Its frankly a lost cause for most indie devs because their games are barely even getting seen by the tiny minority of players that even care to begin with.
@TosadoGardosen
@TosadoGardosen 2 года назад
Part of the reason for that, and something that wasn't brought up in this video, Steam Greenlight was on the way out in early 2017, and was replaced by Q3 2017. Steam Greenlight nearly assured every indie game that made it through at least moderate success due to the voting involved.
@PaulRoneClarke
@PaulRoneClarke 2 года назад
I should also add that I was a marketer for a publisher on Steam for several years (Degica was the publisher) and there isn't really a firm correlation between reviews and sales. The error bars for making any predictions are enormous. Think in terms of 1000's of percent error margins. For example we sold one cheap and easy game "Goats on a Bridge" that (at time of writing) had 47 reviews (overall positive) and sold less than 500 copies. A review rate of almost 10%. The game now has a new publisher I might add. We also sold RPG Maker MV which has around 5,100 reviews and has sold 1.6 million copies. A review rate of 0.3% roughly. Even lower A Train 9 V4 (also now with a new publisher) has 94 reviews and sold 22,714 copies at the point Degica stopped supporting it in very 2016 ( I know this one exactly) 0.041% review rate. The error bars for assuming sales based on reviews are enormous. Unfortunately that means that any assumptions made based on a sales to reviews ratio are pretty meaningless . Games that provoke an emotion, exceed or fail to live up to expectation. Have hype or even reward reviews (which many do) have a hugely higher chance of getting a review than those that don't Many many multiples higher. The other things that "dad's" who play hex based strategy games don't do? Is leave reviews on Steam. They watched a video from a sober, mature RU-vidr (maybe) went on a forum. Watched/read some AARs, bought a Steam key. and played what to them was already a known quantity before they even bought the game. That's what over 50's do. Emotionally they already knew more or less exactly what they were buying. How it played and their expectations are very rarely under or over achieved. Some of the games you assume have low sales I expect have many more than you think. Decisive Campaigns sold more than 12,000 copies on Steam - and is also available on other platforms where, although not as popular in "pop culture" as Steam, are much preferred by strategy gamers for not having any DRM. I don;t know how many copies it sold on those other platforms, but I know if you visit the games forums almost everyone there studiously avoided buying the Steam version of the game to avoid the need for always on DRM.
@PHeMoX
@PHeMoX 2 года назад
Yeah exactly. And it gets worse whenever a game gets boosted to insane sale numbers by online streamers on RU-vid or Twitch. More eyes on a game, generally does equate to higher sales. It does _not_ mean those games are therefore that much better at all. Plenty of the meme games are complete trash. And yes, this includes very overrated games boosted by streamers/YT game critics like Undertale. It would actually make more sense to investigate what are objectively mediocre or even bad games and figure out why they sold high numbers anyway. In some cases the answer isn't much more difficult than 'soccer moms bought the game for their kid for christmas' after seeing its ad on TV and their kids not leaving them alone about it, think Call of Duty, Fifa 22 etc.. Or what to think of the many nostalgia boner remakes that sold on nothing but an old fan base that is reminded of the 90s / 00s when the game originally got released and newer players being encouraged to buy because of this hype / visibility. WoW Classic, but also Tony Hawk Pro Skater 1+2 comes to mind here. A game combo that is in no way spectacular whatsoever. And judging by how the Tony Hawk Pro Skater 3+4 got cancelled, it probably underperformed in expected sales, lol. Well, what did they expect for games that do not hold up anymore in today's world of video gaming? It's not worth the $30 and remember it launched for $55 or so. And even then it'll still have sales because of people who want new Tony Hawk Pro Skater games to be made and naively think it would help by supporting these remakes. It doesn't work like that. Unless people have been asleep, it is well known the demand for good skateboarding games has been as high as never before. It's why Skate 4 is being made. It's why Session exists, as does SkaterXL, but also the Olli Olli games. People _do_ want more skateboarding games. But they have to be good.
@borazan
@borazan 2 года назад
Your first example is flawed, since you're comparing apples to oranges. A game that has sold less than 500 copies vs a sequel to an already established and well known game engine
@elLooto
@elLooto 2 года назад
@@borazan comparing 47 reviews and 500 sales with 94 reviews and 22000 sales seems quite reasonable to me when making the point that reviews =/= sales. Much more important is that the vid makes no pareto analysis while trying to understand revenue distributions.
@PaulRoneClarke
@PaulRoneClarke 2 года назад
Well, I would disagree sort of. Low sample size doesn't mean flawed. It means less reliable. It's an example of the vast number of factors that influence whether a game receives 0.003% sales to review ratio or 9% sales to review ratio. There are plenty of other examples in my experience working with the back end of Steam as a develop I could give you. Degica published a number of bullet hell arcade conversions about 7 years ago as well. Eschatos and Exzeal being 2 examples that both sold over 10,000 copies. Eschatos (12,881) getting 162 reviews. Exzeal (11,002) getting 15 reviews. A ratio difference of about 1000% from very similar games from the same publisher released within a year of each other. The overarching point being that one of two conclusions can be drawn. Either; a) There is no possible way to extrapolate sales numbers from reviews numbers. Or b) There is a way but it is complex and takes many factors into account and miscalculating on any of those factors can leave error margins that make any conclusions drawn rather meaningless.
@chuckwood3426
@chuckwood3426 2 года назад
Yea, this! Also we cant tell if different genres have different propensities of being reviewed. Like, will people really write public review of an erotic anime game when their friends will also get that review in their activity flow? Also I think good but "harmless" games will get few reviews because while a lot of people kind of enjoys them, they are not something that you talk with your friends about on breaks at work. And thus you probably will not review them either. Divisive games on the other hand will get more reviews.
@Russman
@Russman 2 года назад
I love your disposition!🤣🤣
@boensaw5175
@boensaw5175 2 года назад
hey i made the game you said looks like crap at 7:23 ! lol great video though, it mirrors a lot of the thought process and conclusions i've gone through myself. Good on you for gathering up data to support your conclusions. Overall steam is very egalitarian, moreso than any other storefront i'm aware of. You can't even pay money to get to the front page ala appstore and others, it's purely based on metrics. So because of this, marketing and making something that truly interests people matters a lot
@novh4ck
@novh4ck 2 года назад
He knows nothing. :P Your game's style looks awesome.
@NickCastonNZ
@NickCastonNZ 2 года назад
Oh gosh! This is my nightmare. I almost cut that part because it felt too unfair. But I kept it in for (attempted) comedic value and I figured my channel was small enough that you wouldn't see. I hope my random internet stranger words weren't too discouraging! Make whatever games you want and just ignore me
@fatfingersman
@fatfingersman 2 года назад
xd
@raquexx
@raquexx 2 года назад
which one did u make exactly
@boensaw5175
@boensaw5175 2 года назад
@@raquexx Fight Knight
@predictorbibulous3327
@predictorbibulous3327 2 года назад
"GAMES AREN'T BOOKS" so true.
@Avecit_
@Avecit_ 2 года назад
Great video! For me the differences in the success between the 2 are: - Genre: management vs puzzle - Player Fantasy: "Manage the subway system of a city" vs "Move a line"
@crimsonlightbinder
@crimsonlightbinder 2 года назад
👆 this!
@jeck0_0.
@jeck0_0. 2 года назад
yes exactly, MiniMetro makes it very intuitive what the goal of the game is, whereas linelight is more abstract, you don't know why you're moving that line around solving puzzles
@kelownatechkid
@kelownatechkid 2 года назад
Exactly. the goal is obvious and easy for any person to understand!
@AntiGravityC9
@AntiGravityC9 2 года назад
even if Limelight has better player retention and each player that tries it likes it more, it doesn't matter much if there isn't an obvious reason to even try/buy the game in the first place
@LanceWillMakeIt
@LanceWillMakeIt 2 года назад
So facts
@PaulRoneClarke
@PaulRoneClarke 2 года назад
A lot of the strategy games you showed as “dad games”, in fact possibly all of them, had been released on other platforms first. Sometimes years before. Matrix Games, Paradox (which had its own store front for years) and Slitherine (which sells or at least used to sell both direct and on Matrix) There are some really niche games that came over from platforms like Desura after years and years selling there. More still sell across different platforms like IOS etc. The port to Steam in some cases is a relatively simple job and just to get some extra easy cash that would otherwise be left on the table.
@casedistorted
@casedistorted 2 года назад
Wtf is Matrix? And these are def games my dad would’ve played but he does use Steam and he doesn’t own any of them, probably because they’re not well known. He used to love those kinds of games when I was a kid though. He needs simpler games as he gets older sadly.
@justinlangley8972
@justinlangley8972 2 года назад
Paradox Interactive does not belong in the "dad games" genre, but most of their games are definitely some kind of niche. On the other hand, they're a publisher, not a studio, they're pretty diverse in the strategy game genre, and they make a ton of bank. I think a ton of people could find at least one of their games enjoyable. I'm sure this video is talking more along the lines of individual studios why some games don't perform because the publisher tends to have little to do with core game mechanics.
@LizardOfOz
@LizardOfOz 2 года назад
18:46 "Sharing how you've solved the puzzle kinda ruins it for everyone else." This applies tenfold to streams and let's plays: watching someone play Mini-Metro or Shapez makes you want to try the game yourself, while watching someone play a linear experience means you've already seen everything the game has to offer, even if through a proxy. Now the potential customer has to either stop watching, or come back a year later once you've forgot how the puzzles are solved, but how many people would do that? One extra problem with linear puzzles is that people watch streamers to turn their brains off. It's more comfy to just keep watching, rather than close the stream and go play yourself.
@andrewshandle
@andrewshandle 2 года назад
This is what really killed the game That Dragon, Cancer. By all accounts a great game, but it's a short, linear story driven game and people just watched streamers play it on twitch and got about 90% of the value out of it. There was no reason to go and buy it after that, and it ended up selling just 14,000 copies and lost money.
@mdd4296
@mdd4296 2 года назад
@@andrewshandle I'm not so sure about that. There are quite a number of indie horror game that still make a profit for their developers despite being totally linear and even janky in a bad way. Maybe less people go look for a game with heavy subject matter like Cancer.
@exoplaneeet9499
@exoplaneeet9499 2 года назад
imo this is why watching a speedrun is the best way to experience a game you plan on playing yourself-- the runner does things so quickly theres no way you can tell what the hell is going on, much less remember, and even glitchless 100% runs tend to skip over a lot of things, especially in more optimized games
@doctorwhouse3881
@doctorwhouse3881 2 года назад
@@mdd4296 Horror has tons of fans with close to zero quality control.
@mdd4296
@mdd4296 2 года назад
@@doctorwhouse3881 I meant, that's kinda the point.
@wijo605
@wijo605 2 года назад
is it just me or is linelight boring af? just slow to execute obvious puzzles...?
@tourmi
@tourmi 2 года назад
This video was recommended to me by the youtube algorithm™, and damn. A really great breakdown! I hope youtube continues recommending smaller channels like this one in the future
@alexgagulax2866
@alexgagulax2866 2 года назад
so... minecraft was released in 2009 so... it doesn't count i guess
@fluffy6923
@fluffy6923 2 года назад
There is one problem with this analysis. There is no good definition for what is too niche and what isn't. Undertale, Vampire Survivors, Minecraft, Phasmophobia, Loop Hero looked like niche games and in many interviews authors of those games, believed that they are making a niche game. And yet...
@1ProAssassin
@1ProAssassin 2 года назад
I think the key is to look for things that are too niche in that they'll effect the data in ways that have to do more with its nicheness/special circumstances than anything easily comparable between games.
@ThahnG413
@ThahnG413 2 года назад
Well we can't predict what will be niche in the future, but we can look at what is niche now and in the past to take games away from the data, and a game being niche is simply a small market, so applying that logic we can reasonably get rid of games types that are currently niche
@Sl1mch1ckens
@Sl1mch1ckens 2 года назад
@@ThahnG413 curious then are we counting battlefield 2042 as niche since it had lower concurrent players than farm sim 22
@CanaldoVoid
@CanaldoVoid 2 года назад
Quite sure all of those examples have exploded specifically due to youtuber exposure, tons of them. I think vampire Survivors, the most recent, was started by splattercat? He even mentions the game was fun and reminded him of something he used to play and it was a shame nobody was buying it before he made his video.
@CanaldoVoid
@CanaldoVoid 2 года назад
Oh, and Vtubers too, specially Hololive, once they set their sights onto something it turns into gold, instantly.
@Draygarth
@Draygarth 2 года назад
In conclusion, niche games have high reviews and low sales. My question is what was the game up by 100 million but had less than 25% satisfaction? It's a dot all by itself in the top left of your graph.🤣
@LightningbrotherG
@LightningbrotherG 2 года назад
Probably something like No Man's Sky
@koovr
@koovr 2 года назад
Battlefield 2042
@konomiyu
@konomiyu 2 года назад
Im a visual novel fan and i think that the vns are there because of 3 reasons 1. its a niche genre, it easy to look at a visual novel and just think thats its like all the other crappy hentai games on steam if you're not in the know how 2. steam is the wrong platform for vns, if you think about it vns are essential​ly just audiobooks with some visuals. i reckon that most user on steams arent here for audio books. 3. most vn players just pirate the games, since legal sale of translated vns are a relatively new thing and most players are used to playing fan translations
@Fujibayashi85
@Fujibayashi85 2 года назад
As a fellow VN enjoyer, I agree with all three. In no offense to generic people but that's how it was with anime until recently. VNs, especially in the US, are pretty much a niche of a niche.......of a niche. It's a very specific audience, especially with some of the wackier ones. It makes sense though when you think about it as well with stats. MOST people on Steam aren't gonna go "Huh, I'd sure like to read and look at images for 50+ hours now. Let's try this game!". Even in close to the same realm, they'd rather play Fire Emblem, Naruto or even something like Monster Hunter. That sort of audience is kind of hard to expand upon.
@Gnidel
@Gnidel 2 года назад
I find visual novels unplayable on PC. They work better for me on mobile, where I can lie in bed instead of sitting in chair.
@konomiyu
@konomiyu 2 года назад
@@Gnidel I play using a laptop that i can bring to bed
@jde12
@jde12 2 года назад
The other thing is there are *tons* of VNs compared to the audience that consumes them. I guess because the barrier to getting started on them is pretty low; it's largely about the writing.
@DDracee
@DDracee 2 года назад
yeah the steam reviews are super inaccurate for VNs and r18 games, you got stuff rated like 4/10 on vndb but "overwhelmingly positive" on steam lol, i think it's cuz only the people that actually liked said VN ends up buying it on steam same with r18 games, seen 1 star stuff on dlsite rated O-P on steam lol, same reason
@gajo1256
@gajo1256 2 года назад
Space Gladiators is underperforming because it's the most obvious Hollow Knight worship
@gamongames
@gamongames 2 года назад
that last category exclusion was a mistake. 'weird suff' may not sell well, but its also where a lot of gems reside and the weird of today can be the new overdone genre of tomorrow. Id go through those as well, as its a very heterogeneous category on itself and its performance cant be explained by just "genre x doesnt sell well"
@gamongames
@gamongames 2 года назад
also, even tho I understand the initial comparison between the mini games and linelight, theyre still fundamentally different in a way I think perfectly explains their different performances (I say that as a professional gamedev with user acquisition experience). the mini games have an art direction thats just more approachable and familiar. the graphic design invokes infographics, public signage and flat-color-on-white-background design thats ubiquitous in modern branding and UX. linelight already starts in disadvantage with its dark general vibe, which is known to be less appealing to the general public in terms of UX, the visual elements are way thiner and more delicate than the minis while also being stylzed, which adds friction to the readability (even tho it adds style), and it is ultimately hurt by its premise compared to the minis. linelight is a game where you have a main character that goes through a linear puzzle-narrative, which means it depends a lot on the player's ability to connect emotionally to whats happening and its not very replayable. its a game that needs you to go through a rise in engagement to motivate you to keep coming back to play it and finish but will also stop being attractive once its done. even if it does manage to cativate you when you play, as many reviews demonstrate, its introducing a lot of friction elements that go directly against that primary need with its visuals being less approachable and translating less emotiom so it fails to convert users and fails to retain most of them after they start. in the other hand the minis go in exact opposite with very clear and readable gameplay, no narrative or main characters that'd introduce the need for a stronger emotional connection and procedural gameplay that scales well. it doesnt need you to be continuosly engaged with it because there's no direct connection between play sessions. no narrative or character to care about. the gameplay offers variety through progress but can be approached way more casually, accepting a higher fluctuation of engagement. you can forget about it for a week and still decide to go back on a whim and still have the same experience without needing to get back into any emotional state or remember any narrative. its easy to see how different both games would be at their ability to acquire new users and retain them for longer and more numerous play sessions, which even ties into the points you bring up in the video. minimetro had a free web version, relatable concept and was about creativity which is shareable, sure but being a jam game that would normally only mean other gamedevs and enthusiasts get to play it. without paid marketing, only virality couldve made it reach the general public and without the positives I mentioned it would never have gone viral.
@cuddlecakes7153
@cuddlecakes7153 2 года назад
House for example is one of those "weird games" but it's really good in my opinion. It's really unique.
@floydstephman
@floydstephman 2 года назад
At one point Dota was an over complicated oddity with little mass appeal now it's the hottest shit around
@absence9443
@absence9443 2 года назад
Boomerang X had such a ridiculously high potential for becoming a rapid large scale platformer
@Jan12700
@Jan12700 2 года назад
9:26 & 10:50 I don't think the two games are undersold, but rather that steam is the wrong platform. Both games are more suitable for casual (console) gaming, so these games are also available on the Switch, where they were even shown in a Nintendo Indie Direct. 17:15 If there's a free demo or prototype, that's really good and getting people interested. You don't have anything to lose if it's not fun or you don't like it. I've found countless games, e.g. KSP, Slipways, Raft, Timberborn, Terra Nil,... 20:15 Can you post the list of games? It would be really interesting to see where some games are and whether they get too much or too little attention. Exactly because of this problem, Steam now has a function to display games according to your own interests searched by a neural network. So you can find really niche games that you would never have found otherwise. You can find it in the Shop under laboratory and then the last result.
@vintprox
@vintprox 2 года назад
For me it's just that creative underdogs don't get recognition and a lot of mainstream games try to sit on many chairs. Recently I only play submissions for fascinating game jams (GWJ, GMTK, etc.), because feedback cycle there feels REAL and you get opportunities for contribution from time to time. It's a win-win, whereas with mainstream games I just feel like losing braincells.
@chadnoneo9769
@chadnoneo9769 2 года назад
I believe that is preference of collaboration vs consumption. Sometimes I myself feel more collaborative and want to create and share it, sometimes I just want to sit back and consume something that has been created.
@atomictraveller
@atomictraveller 2 года назад
i've made games (win32) and stuff (mostly vst) for decades. modern attitudes about making games mystify me. i always did things by myself, never with a team. i used borland's fclt compiler which takes about a half second to compile a win32 app and has a 5 meg hard disk footprint. i could develop super quickly because of that half second. basically i tend to write non-OO code, C more than c++. it bothers me to crap how people make an OO function that takes several lines to implement when the actual command is a single line because they are trained to write OO code, totally obfuscating the process, which is why people can never do anything, because they live in spaghetti, instead of a simple, minimal, self conceived instruction set. i finally managed to afford a 64 bit windows system this year, i've been using xp. unfortunately it will be a while before i can afford enough hrd disk to install the retarded microsoft vs shit for direct x or their package for product development, gigs and gigs of it. waaaay beyond what fits on the 60g drive my lappy has. now i make stuff with ps4 dreams and i'm among many ignored in favour of retarded crap. as a matter of fact, the gamedev website issued a special page after they banned me (i've never read it) explaining the reason for banning me for posting how my super minimal system actually produced faster win exes than microsoft despite my os being limited to opengl 1.4. apparently, non-OO code is that offensive. but in short, the reason why entertainment is often sucky is because so many people are masons and it's their duty to milk you and keep you dull. it's doubtful any reader will believe it in this lifetime, but there you are.
@woobilicious.
@woobilicious. 2 года назад
@@atomictraveller what are you smoking bruv, 64bit windows and 60gb hdd in 2022?...are you in the third world? It's pretty simple really, art wins with games not the 0.5s saved with a c compiler choice. You can make GCC fast with the right flags anyway but unless you are working off existing code bases you're spending a lot of time reinventing a 3d engine and not doing what is important, like making an actual game, Godot with gdscript is extremely fast, no compilation needed.
@atomictraveller
@atomictraveller 2 года назад
@@woobilicious. tucson. no AC. limited income. bleed out my ass regular this time of year from overwork anyway. be dead soon. expanding my hard drive wouldn't be a high priority, but i only purchased this asus L210 six months ago and the OS has increased to a size where i'm going to have to soon apparently. the vst3 sdk (which we didn't address) spits out a half gig of shit every compile. if i were you, i'd reconsider defending total fucking bullshit to someone about to die from bleeding out their ass.
@ZX3000GT1
@ZX3000GT1 2 года назад
@@atomictraveller 60GB drive in 2022? Even 120GB SSDs are cheap nowadays. Unless you live on the most rural area in the most third world country in the world I think most people should be able to afford it. I know, because I live in third world country myself.
@EvilParagon4
@EvilParagon4 2 года назад
Another factor for Mini Metro. It came out in 2014, the start of the indie boom. While casual relaxing games are avoided now, that wasn’t always the case. Thanks to minimalist games that came out of the indie boom of the mid 10s, people gained a resistance to those sorts of games popping up later. Mini Metro being earlier avoided that entirely.
@kavaop2121
@kavaop2121 2 года назад
mid 10s
@bobmcbobbington9220
@bobmcbobbington9220 2 года назад
Indie boom started in 2005ish
@puransu20
@puransu20 2 года назад
@@Eyeball-with-legs this is true. I only learned about Mini Metro after playing a shitton of Factorio/OTTD/Workers & Resources. there’s a huge playerbase (not even that niche of a group) who love train and rail management sims, myself included. Most of those who have played any game with trains will most likely have heard of Mini Metro, kinda like how Townscaper and Islanders are popular “casual” games for those hardcore city building players
@astrah982
@astrah982 2 года назад
This is exactly right. Timing, but also the store you release on AND these days the COUNTRY you release it in is a huge factor. In my opinion people should check which country their game resonates with, which culture, and market mainly to that region of the world as well.
@astrah982
@astrah982 2 года назад
There's a documentary about Brazillian indie game designers, and they said that 80% of their sales come outside of their own country. Also, Steam isn't the only store that exists. These are things to think about.
@Passwordddddd
@Passwordddddd 2 года назад
I think there's one problem to steam that makes this graph form in the way that it does. Rating a game is based on a 50/50 system, Positive or Negative. There's no star rating system/numerical system where they can be more specific as to how good or how bad a game is, which causes a lot of those smaller games to be a false positive for the 5%. Even though they are positively rated, they aren't 10/10 per se or 5% worthy (like what you said when you mentioned that they felt below 10%). Edit: I'm mentioning this as another point to add to the current points made in the video.
@astrah982
@astrah982 2 года назад
The same could be said of RU-vid. The 5 star rating system was far better than this thumbs up thumbs down stuff.
@super12rider
@super12rider 2 года назад
the negative/positive rating is based off how machine learning algorithms succeed. They are really good at handling binary yes/no variables in bulk to make correlations between different people and what similar people would like. Its not supposed to be user friendly but instead machine learning friendly. It works the same as youtube, netflix, facebook, (another manipulative company), etc.
@furion179
@furion179 2 года назад
binary rating system actually helps me to have cleare vision on what that rating number even meaning. I know if I would like game genre how likely I would like the game after purchase. 5 start rating maybe can help find good games ?!? but I prefer finding game by tags then look at ratings and review's. 5 star rating don't tell you what percentage of buyers liked what they got. and reviews can help you know exactly what people feel about it with more details than any rating system can achieve.
@Justin-ee1mv
@Justin-ee1mv 2 года назад
Well 10/10 are all based on how someone enjoys the game, Many people have perfect score for games that others would look past from, So for some games there are also variables on whether or not the game has been played by other creators to the fan in word of mouth and for some who finds the game naturally though steam or though other sources may just find the genre and game they are looking for even if for you it’s not the genre you play at all or have even seen
@jacobb5484
@jacobb5484 2 года назад
I've played several you listed as good but not great, and most have some level of hidden depth that makes them special to those who invest the time into them while appearing generic at a glance. House: A horror game with a time loop that feels rewarding to go through. There are numerous interconnected puzzles and each time you restart the cycle you get closer to finding the true end. Aside from the frogs it's something that is a challenging puzzle yet feels achievable without a walkthrough. Wilmot's Warehouse: originally free through Humble Bundle, so that put a big damper on sales. While at it's core it's a simple organization puzzle, it is relaxing and satisfying with a very carefully designed difficulty curve, as you need to manage more items you are slowly unlocking upgrades and developing the skills needed to succeed. By the end you'll feel like a master. Spirits Abyss: An absolutely massive roguelike with tons of hidden content and unlockable including a card game minigame. If you like hunting for secrets and are looking for something like Spelunky you will enjoy this as well as Noita. Recused: A puzzle game that takes full advantage of it's core recursive mechanic. There's only a handful of basic rules, but you're naturally figuring out their nuances and intricacies creating insanely complicated puzzles by the end. It also came out 3 years before Baba is you which has similar puzzle logic.
@MrFalliorsGaming
@MrFalliorsGaming 2 года назад
I know a game that's underperforming that has Overwhelmingly Positive reviews that I have had a ton of fun on. It's called "The Coin Game". It contains many games you'd find at arcades such as claw machine's, coin pushers, ball drops, table hockey, key masters, pinball and even minigolf. Game was made by 1 developer so updates are slower to come out, but still really fun to play. I've played it on my channel a few times myself as well.
@hankman236
@hankman236 2 года назад
Funny to see you here. I've watched you play that game before. I haven't played it myself but it definitely looked pretty fun from your videos
@Xenji5
@Xenji5 2 года назад
What’s the game?
@MrFalliorsGaming
@MrFalliorsGaming 2 года назад
@@Xenji5 The Coin Game
@ashkesslet1149
@ashkesslet1149 2 года назад
Love that game
@Justin-ee1mv
@Justin-ee1mv 2 года назад
I don’t consider The coin game in the niche category, It has people playing especially when updates drop, Big streamers also check the game out every once in a while, So that has already bigger than most game coverage which is none for many
@ExKalowbar
@ExKalowbar 2 года назад
Nowadays indie game feel worth more than many AAA games
@gravymask
@gravymask 2 года назад
please make the graph public. i want to see that one low rated game that made $100,000,000
@tacklesmackle4690
@tacklesmackle4690 2 года назад
Agree on this. But imo it's a game that was made by a big corporation/company that broke the players' view. Like the game turned out to be very greedy or very bad ect... But still I wanna know what game was so bad but the player base kept on buying it
@gravymask
@gravymask 2 года назад
@@tacklesmackle4690 my guess is battlefield 2042
@NickCastonNZ
@NickCastonNZ 2 года назад
Yup! You nailed it. It was battlefield 2042
@gravymask
@gravymask 2 года назад
@@NickCastonNZ that’s really sad
@godkingofnerds1661
@godkingofnerds1661 2 года назад
Something interesting I noticed is that two of the 30 or so games on the spreadsheet of underperforming games shown were Horizon's Gate and Voidspire Tactics. These games were both developed by Rad Codex, a 1 person development team. It just sucks to see someone have not just 1 but 2 games underperforming in this way. As someone who has over 100 hours in Horizon's Gate I can say that it is definitely worth a try.
@James-dm8cx
@James-dm8cx 2 года назад
2d games that aren't already established ips will always underperform
@MFKR696
@MFKR696 2 года назад
They only "under-performed" because they didn't have millions of dollars to throw into marketing. It doesn't matter how good you are. If you can't market your wares competitively, you're not gonna get very far with it.
@TheGrinningSkull
@TheGrinningSkull 2 года назад
@@MFKR696 using the excuse of needing millions in marketing I feel is a cop out excuse. Marketing is about virality. No point spending millions of it only generates half that. I’d recommend reading the lean startup on this for making sure you have a good viral coefficient and how to go about creating virality in the consumer space.
@MFKR696
@MFKR696 2 года назад
@@TheGrinningSkull A bit naive, are we? lol
@paulscott88
@paulscott88 2 года назад
Horizon's Gate is amazing to play through.
@LastNameTom
@LastNameTom 2 года назад
Pretty cool that you got Elon Musk to narrate your video!
@Wourghk
@Wourghk 2 года назад
Re: Mini Metro vs Linelight. Though similar in appearance, the design philosophy is completely different between the two. Anyone who played OpenTTD / Transport Fever - or any transportation network management game - at least took a look at it if for no other reason than the subject implied by the name: "Metro". Most probably stuck with it since it's a casual non-linear take on the genre, which is novel. Former attempts at casual transport games by other developers were overt puzzle games with prescribed solutions, which the managerial audience strongly rejects because they're a group that thrives on discovering creative solutions for compounding simple problems. By stark contrast, Linelight is a puzzle game through and through. It unfortunately looks like an abstract, pretentious "game for the sake of game design" exercise, but yet has no underlying narrative like its predecessors (Flow and Thomas Was Alone). There's no story, it doesn't have a strong soundtrack, nor does it have a mascot or recognizable icon. It's flat, completely absent any appeal outside of its simplicity. In my opinion, it's amazing it performed as well as it did, and that may have been entirely due to marketing efforts.
@Valdyr_Hrafn
@Valdyr_Hrafn 2 года назад
as an artist I'll say this about linelight and minimetro. they might seem similar but artistically they are very different. yes they are both minimalistic, but linelight is abstract whereas mini metro is representational, it looks like a metro map, the human brain can imagine more because it recognizes the art.
@Avengerie
@Avengerie 2 года назад
I agree. It's too minimalist. It reminded me of a science video of light beam being shot through a water bottle at 1 million frames per second. I think it would do 10 times better if the playable object was a cute worm crawling through pipes or an ant trying to find a way out of an anthill. Especially since the puzzle/game mechanic part of the game was very good.
@0lionheart
@0lionheart 2 года назад
great way of putting it!
@YourCaptivityisOver
@YourCaptivityisOver 2 года назад
Metro has a more immediate 'charisma'. Which is something difficult to quantify.
@globglob3d
@globglob3d 2 года назад
15:00 I think the replay-ability and non-linear/rogue-like progression of Mini Metro (and Mini Motorway) makes these games more appealing and unique than Linelight which seems to have more of a "beat this level to progress to the next one" which is so common and boring. I haven't played Mini Metro or Linelight though, only Mini Motorway which surprised be with it's depth.
@Relyksboa
@Relyksboa 2 года назад
Did either of those games make you feel like batman?
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