It always amuses me when people say a particular language is "dying". Even in this video there's a reference to PHP being from "way back" but thousands of modern sites that people use on a daily basis are still running on PHP. Many of Panasonic's manufacturing processes are built on Perl and still being updated in Perl. One thing I've learned over my 30+ years in tech is that opinions without data are just white noise and can be ignored.
ITS DEAD, its just being used because 90% of companies cant be bother to REWRITE their legacy code. If they had a choice, no company would use trash PHP LOL
yeah, dying is the wrong term, no tech really ever dies... i do think these technologies are falling out of favor for sure. the vast majority of people who prefer using these older technologies are those who are already used to using them or already have established projects that use them. but they certainly arent dead and probably will never truly die.
To me the best part is that if you already know react, you've probably done the hardest part of the journey. Learning these new frameworks is usually simpler till you really need to do crazy stuff
Not at all, React leaves you with tunnel vision and probably if you migrate to another framework such as angular you will find out that you were making junk code all your life. I've come across engineers who didn't even know how to use ngrx or ts correctly.
@@mmadictos5356 But angular is java abstraction and alot of boilerplate with goal for long term support of a project where usually you wanna make something in really solid way where deadlines doesnt really exists compare it to corpo and software house, so I have no idea watcha mean tho, lmao also comparing angular to react or some sort of is the most idiotic comparasion you could have made altho they have alot of similiarity and thats what Juan meant id say. You saying that you have come across those who didn't even know how to use ngrx... like bro... ngrx is such a complex tool comparing to tools like zustand, redux or anything else whats around state managment or reactivity. I havent seen more complex tool like rxjs... for state managment its like learning something totally new also all those tool are only used in angular ecosystem and thats why theyre still alive smh, its all about the angular abstraction and whole convention thats pushing others away of learning it, thats why angular isnt the most friendly tool for frontend development, angular actually due to statistic has the lowest satisfaction of use in developers votes and it drops every year in context of the satisfaction of using it across others tools for frontend or web overall. React is a lib and the opened ecosystem makes it amazing, its such a good tool that doesnt pushes any abstraction, its not opinionated and really close to vanillia js. If you talk about junk code and react you could be right due to angular usage in long term projects, the code is usually really well written due to high usage in corpo ecosystem, react is mostly used in software houses where theres totally different way of work and goals on the table. Each tool has own goal and usage in x situation, but youre kinda acting like ure judging all those from react ecosystem just they couldnt use in first place somebodys abstraction, which is pepega lmao else about the ts "correctly" part... angular is heavily based on ts, where its more strongly typed than other apps most of time, but it really depends especially that most of time you dont really need advanced types with dynamic generic props or anything like that and simple unions etc are enough most of time also generics arent seen that often in React ecosystem especially for components both tools have different way of work even tho both use ts the usage is slightly different. Angular goal is to be tight and heavily developed for long time in really big projects where you need really deep control of everything that's also why rxjs is used for the state and reactivity aspects due to the deep control of connections in pipelines etc. Angular Devs are usually amazing developers with really good knowledge about development and you can learn much more in angular about whole process of development especially as a junior, but it seems like you look at them like from the top of some sort of ego and i highly recommending to drop it down cause angular is like different world and mindset and i can clearly see it right here, right now.
People think that PHP and WordPress and Laravel are dying, hell even JQUERY is still putting out new releases it seems it takes a lot for anything to be dying.... 😂
I'm a freelance web developer for 9+ years now. Over the years I developed my own PHP and Javascript framework, because all of my long term customers had similar issues and problems with common frameworks (like missing features, speed issues, unflexibility). I'm very happy with that decision.
WordPress using React as the framework for Guttenberg blocks will keep it relevent for many years to come. PHP & React may turn out to be quite a powerful combination.
I am using Svelte. The benefit of Svelte is really "SIMPLE". React is somewhat "COMPLICATED". Also, Svelte gives me a powerful tools and generate a small bundle size.
One thing important to mention is that there is a big confusion between AngularJS and Angular. AngularJS it is very old and I wouldn't really want to use it to any project, but modern Angular is amazing and definitely better then any other framework out there.
@@the_unico Definitely not and depends on use case. For quick prototyping of apps, nope, it has a lot of boilerplate, it has it's advantages with it's stricter nature, there isn't a single framework to rule them all.
@@PatalJunior Take a look at the newest version of Angular, the boilerplate has been reduced dramatically, and they have introduced signals which makes the framework truly reactive. Angular is the only true enterprise worthy solution, and now it can compete for startups too.
@@DouglasWhite-y4s I agree partially. Signals is a step in the right direction. Thought, Signals doesn't handle async or handle race conditions, resulting in the need for yet another third party library like RxJS to do so. I'm an Angular fan, but it still has a long way to go in terms of what I would call "exhaustive reactivity".
Great run down. I've been using React at work for a bunch of enterprise projects the last few years, and based on what clients are asking for, I don't see that changing anytime soon. That said, on all my personal projects, Svelte (+SvelteKit) it my go-to, it's so much quicker and (imo) more fun to write.
Angular is a framework to creat a complete frontend. Unlike ReactJs. So Angulars scales out of the box - big projects. ReactJs has no structure, no architecture. It's just a library. So you're wasting time installing all these libraries in ReactJd just to make it usable. I can't see why would Angular die!
"Angular is dying"? It went from 41% in 2018 to 43% in 2022 according to the (awfully distorted) infographic you showed ... that image is terrible it implies the curves are indicitave or perventage movements when they have no consistent correlation at all
I want React to start dying so they will wake up and improve their hooks. When you compare Vue and React you wonder why React makes things so complicated when Vue shows that it can be way more simpler and less verbose. I will disagree with the statement that React is more customizable and has more libraries for it. Vue is flexible as well and has all the libraries you need. Svelte as well even though the community is still young they built almost everything you need for the majority of projects. React also is closed to anything which has not been built with their partners. We saw it with Vite almost not being mentioned and hidden deep in their doc. And this is Meta's policy. When Vue and Svelte accepts new features from the community like Vue did with Vue 3.3 for example. I am looking forward to Server components but again it is not React but Next. I am waiting to see to compare with SvelteKit and Nuxt though.
Am a solo learner, when it comes to general web dev. I've learned Reactjs almost twice using two different courses, I couldn't get my head around it. But when I took svelte once, it just stick all at once. Am very grateful for Svelte and Sveltekit. Svelte's "magics" are not magic after all. To me Reactjs is full of some tricky magics which I found very difficult to get my head around.
I would love react to die. Most job opportunities in my country is just react jobs and HRs started to asking not how much experience a Developer has but how much experience in a framework he has. It is crazy.
React isn't going anywhere since it's been the largest framework for years. The sheer amount of libraries and projects that depend on it is so massive that it cannot go away. New libraries are good, they bring something fresh but they are only useful when you start new projects, anything else will just be "it's not worth the effort".
@@FS-yq9ef Yes performance optimization with useCallback and useMemo is hell, useReducer adds a lot of code and complexity compared to other frameworks, ...
@@FS-yq9ef Agreed. It's bad when we can't take a step back and think objectively, "Is this truly more efficient?" When the "socially acceptable norm" has become more bloated and complex than more primitive alternatives? It's like asking a 30+ year experienced structural engineer to build a bridge, yet a 5th grader can do so in a fraction of the time (queue the marshmallow challenge). So many bad habits and "norms" have been engrained in developers today that they can't even provide speak to basic JS methods in job interviews.
The coolest FE stuff I have done in my career was back in late 2000.. and our Flash SPA:s with AS3 typed language, “easy” state handling, seamlessly merging advanced vector animations, regular content, streaming video, a headless architecture against backend with complementary third party services, broadcast/socket connection between clients etc etc..with 99% browser support. Then came apple with their new hardware that wasn’t strong enough to support that kind of content (and didn’t want to rely on Adobes tech) and a widespread opinion that the web should go back to basics more and be used as originally intended spread at the same time. For a few years we started doing the web just like that to accommodate the weaker mobile devices and cellular bandwidth. Our SPAs became mobile apps instead and the devs and projects got divided into app or web development. But we all know the traditional web is a bit boring so slowly we webfolk started to step by step go towards the cool heavy clients with the shajizz and shajuzz and fast UI response times again.. this time with javascript (that apple approved of) and ended up with heavy JS spas and frameworks once again. Until we thought.. hey these heavy client spas is not how the original web was intended. We need to bring more back to the server and use the web as it once was intended to function.. My guess is that 2025 is the year of the heavy client SPAs again 🙂 I am really likeing our ongoing project though with next 13, server components, type script against a backend/cms that auto-generates interfaces to be used by FE etc etc.. maybe it’s the perfect balance between heavy client spas and not.. But I can’t shake the feeling that we did cooler stuff back in 2007 :)
I lived and breathed the same stuff as you back then (my very first job was a Macromedia Shockwave developer in 1998), and can empathize with all of your points. AS3 was really amazing. It's actually been pretty frustrating for me watching everyone re-invent the wheel over and over, and a lot of times it feels like one step forward, two steps back. It feels like all of these new frameworks are constantly rolling out with tons of hype, but a severe lack of features that only truly weathered and experienced developers understand are important. I don't know how many times I've tried picking up something new just to find out it has a major oversight and requires a number of workarounds to fix, if it's even possible. I can't wait until the TypeScript ecosystem finally has a solid, almost universal framework that's got everything figured out.
@@DougKulak Is it generational? I mean, mullets and staches are making a come back, Ron Jeremy style, right? At what point does some Gen Zer release a YT video about vanilla JS being the best thing since sliced bread, and it takes the world by storm?!?! 🤣
It begs the question of build vs buy. It would be interesting to see the amount of time developers spend on evaluating and testing FE frameworks versus the amount of time it would take to build components in vanilla JS. Riddle me this ;)
I feel Qwik has the potential to be a game changer. Any thoughts? Angular also seems to be making a comeback with signals but still needs to be more simple and intuitive to get a grasp on imo
I'm a hobbyist (I was in the industry in the late 90's unto the 'Bust', mostly working with ASP and ColdFusion) but I always liked messing around with JS just for the immediacy of the experience. Over the years, I've moved on to other occupations, but in my spare time, I like to build web apps for my own use. A workout tracker, a searchable music library, grocery shopping list/tracker etc. And although I've dabbled with Backbone, Angular, React, Vue, et al, I keep coming back to simple, well organized vanilla javascript, basically using a Publish/Subscribe bus to manage UI state. All the components are on a "need to know basis" and only concern themselves with listening for events that concern them, and update accordingly. Build a store module to contain all your CRUD and XHR logic, and away ya go.
True. Plain JavaScript is much simpler and readable. React does simple things in a convoluted way. I have only a limited knowledge, but this is what I feel.
Glad to know react isn't dying. And of course not, there are tons and tons of framework and libraries depending on it and an ever growing community of developers backing it. Not to mention Facebook, the big tech behind it. It's easy and straight forward approach to programming with components and it's one-way data binding makes it simple and easy to learn. For me simplicity and standards trumps bleeding edge tech..
I'd call react anything but straight forward once you start building real products. The too-low-level abstractions it provides are too flexible for it's own good and it's easy to clutter components with hooks that are completely under the hood in other frameworks (i.e Svelte), and that's before we even talked about page optimization. Regardless, React isn't going anywhere as the amount of projects already build with it is huge and there is a large developer community supporting it.
I wish react were dying. By comparison svelte and sveltekit provide a smoother and simpler developer experience that’s much closer to vanilla web development compared to react’s abstractions and shadow DOM. As a former react developer I picked up svelte in a day and never looked back. Not to mention it’s like 4 times faster and doesn’t ship an entire framework to the client
php is not dead. Java is not dead. C# is not dead. Basically, they can never be dead. Well, there are a few extremely rare exceptions (rip Adobe Flash Player)
Of course not. Because big companies want stability instead of finding out that in the middle of migration to new technology that technology became outdated. I worked for company that maintains software for government institution and they will never ever want to migrate to any new technology as long as old one works and fulfills requirements not because of complexity of migration but for the reason that you will never ever will be up to date with these days technologies anyway.
yeah man be rational and dont just be hype or jump into another framework/tools too quickly .., js-lings arguing each new JS framework came out and in other side, another lang want to JS itself died or getting replaced by their own lang as fast as it is possible
Absolutely! Find me a CTO willing to put their job and equity on the line to approve a wholesale change in tech stack. Won't happen, no matter how jazzed up his/her engineering team is about the next bleeding edge tech stack.
I don't think vue gets enough credit. It has composition api that very similar to svelte and with vapor right around corner it can be compiled without vdom very similar to svelte and solid. It also has a large community and ecosystem. Nuxt 3 for example is awesome for full stack. With Nuxt 3 I have switched from react to vue and haven't looked back. The mental model is so much easier, and with composition api I get a svelte like coding experience with a larger ecosystem and community.
I dont really get why it too. Vue can do pretty much what react can do, and in a cleaner and easier way, at least for me. I'm trying to learn react now, and there's so much things to do that you can do easily in vue.
@@danbizirean4196 reactivity in vue is very similar to solid, but the updates are done via vdom (until vapor comes out, then it will use micro updates similar to solid and skip vdom). It has less magic than svelte when using composition api which is svelte like. If you use options api it uses zero magic and you can even embed directly in browser unlike react and svelte. Typescript support is much better in latest vue, latest vue itself is written in typescript and all core libraries fully support typescript and bundle/export all type declarations. I can get a lot of the benefits of svelte (composition api), solid (reactivity and soon vapor), react, all wrapped in a framework that is the third most popular js framework which has larger ecosystem than something like solid or svelte.
@@danbizirean4196 1. It's a false statement 2. What exactly do you miss in Vue's ecosystem? 3. Vue 3 has a good TS support (and improving in every version) 4. True, but it won't stay in your way. You can even use JSX in it. Also, not a problem for me. 5. Less jobs than React doesn't mean no jobs at all. I'm working as a full-time Vue developer and it has been amazing.
I actually see Angular rising in a lot of enterprise projects. Not every small landingpage is using Angular so the share is lower - but do you want to work on enterprise or landingpage level?
Interesting to see how React is evolving. I'm not much of a web developer but with my limited experience I would find it hard to develop an app without being able to code both the client and the server middleware. I'm currently using custom web components and feathersjs, but my next web app if there is one will probably be React.
Every 17.6 weeks or so another new JavaScript framework comes out, and within 3.9 days after the release, another 6.4 RU-vid developers have a new video about how this new framework is - or is not - going to kick React to the curb, like a JS Framework game of "king of the mountain."
Also worth mentioning every new framework or library promises to be easier to use, more performant and solve problems better than any competitor. They never do in real enterprise projects.
I'm an angular developer since 2019. Should I learn react? I would be no where near my angular skills. Or should I take the latest best framework available. I have a job in Angular and feels like I have learnt almost everything required for a developer in angular. Is it time to grow my tech stack?
I have been working on Angular and React for a while now, and I believe the learning curve of Angular throws a wrench in a desire to continue. I like both, but Angular is more of a challenge
When people say react is dying they are thinking in terms of SPA. plain react with vite would do most of the beginner works but when it comes to MPA with SSR Nextjs is the beast or there and Iam not even considering app/ directory which has server component by default even as simple as getStaticProps pre-renders on the page can solve much of the complex problems out there anyways react is not gonna die
Wow, your arguments are very well founded it shows that you are a good developer. I am rather developer seen js but when svelte 3 came out and sveltekit, I fell in love with this framework and when Evan you said that he was inspired a lot by svelte currentlymnt, I do not stop developing under svelte, in any case thank you for your explanations
if anyone learn react he is a true developer in case if try to implement new feature from scratch, but on other hand , at servlet or any new easy to use framework, the developer have no in depth knowledge in how to implement any new feature from scratch , so core code is better than framework where user do not know anything how to implement new complex feature from scratch.
Okay, I love you man and I'll watch this video later. But I don't know if this is a click-bait or not (since it's a question). But the answer is no. React is not going anywhere, anytime soon. It's probably one of the most frame (or rather libraries out there) followed my Angualr and Vue. Even the Vuestorefront which is a Nuxt framework for vue, has adapted the usage for React as well. Tesco Tech, one of the largest retail markets in the world uses React For their ENTIRE platform ICF and most streaming industries Zeiss is currently moving it's B2B stack from Angular to React (I interviewed with them this year) Just lookup on Indeed and Linkedin, React is relevant and is not going anywhere instead of trying to learn a thousand frameworks, people should get themselves familiar with CI/CD, Docker, Cloud basics, Devops in general because that shit is spreading like wildfire. I'm serious. Good God, DevOps should be it's own profession, why the fuck are Frontended engineers required to master it! Also in terms of PHP, a lot of people used to say that it's dead.... but PHP is still widely used The same goes for Mainframes, people keep saying they'll die, but there doesn't exist a single computing device that can compute mainframe speed or security. No they're not dead but the older generation is retiring and it's not taught in Universities which is bad. Even people who says cloud is replacing servers...... Don't realize that cloud is basically a network of servers? You're just not owning your own servers but rather renting out servers... like owning a house vs renting an apartment. No React is not going anywhere, nor will it.
I've been told react react react but I've been learning svelte and it's been a really enjoyable experience. I'll learn react if i need to got a job but for now I'm gonna stick with svelte. I've heard good things about solidjs also but i don't know much about it
This is what is meant when people say React is dying.DEVS ARE CHOOSING BETTER OPTIONS THAT ARE EASIER TO WORK WITH: Not that react won't be around in a year, of course it will. Devs in coming years will have to maintain these awful codebases build on React with Next, Redux, MUI etc etc etc all that randomness that React labelled "flexibility"", that is really just unmaintainable 3rd party add-ons from hell.
@@Daijyobanai 5 years from now: "Svelte sucks; devs are choosing better options that are easier to work with. Not that Svelte won't be around in ay ear, of course it will. Devs in coming years will have to maintain these awful codebases build on Svelte. All that randomness that Svelte named "magic", that is really just unmaintainable spaghetti code"
@@spell105 yes time will make every web technology obsolete eventually, but at least some of react’s competitors are built on web standards, and not a series of hacks because react was not planned well to begin with.
Great explanation! Can you explain how these server components work a little more? I’ve been trying to figure them out, but run into issues when wanting to use a react hook like useState (‘use client’), and an event handler like onSubmit for forms (can’t be client). This seems to complicate things, but I’m probably missing something.
Your comment about "I don't need to know how hooks work" (with React) by using Svelte is quite subjective. With Svelte, you need to know the template syntax which, in my opinion, adds a layer of complexity that is disconnected from both HTML and JavaScript. React hooks are JavaScript (or TypeScript), and do not add to the language; you just need to know how they are used. With Svelte, it's en entirely new thing to learn ON TOP of JavaScript/TypeScript and HTML.
The short answer is "no, react is not dying, but it should". Effectively it's a legacy tool. No reasonable SFC styling solutions, platform events replaced by synthetic events like it was jQuery. No new projects should be started on React in 2023.
There's no such language as COBOLT. It's COBOL. And you cannot compare people who use an actual language to "Angular devs", who are people that specialize in needing a library to do anything with JavaScript. It's cringe.
Most people are idiotic, to put it frankly. "Dying"? React? I don't know whether people just pretend, or they are genuinely idiotic, but look at the fact. React is backed by Facebook, for crying out loud. How the hell is that thing gonna die if Facebook, its father, still lives, and is able to back React up? Things like Vite, Nextjs, at the end of the day, they are all React based. You can even use Vuejs with Vite. If people expect React to "die", then they'd better excute Mark Zuckerberg, then React will probably "die".
Those saying a language is dying even don't know how to code... anyway, in their eyes, C has been died for centuries. But I must admit that React is perfect before hooks introduced, and now is actually dying, because it makes no difference between a non-organized framework, like AngularJS, etc.
why react supports the wrong way of doing things so much??? heading towards php/jquery days - mixing js/html & client/server it’s terrible to write client code in server, lol most ppl here support react bcs it’s popular 😂 without knowing history
C'mon. You start of carefully calling out what the graph represents, but by @2:30 you are calling the numbers percent market share. What even is the source of the charts? Who are the developers who took this poll? Are they using these frameworks for hobby project, work, class?
So funny how zoomer have such a rush with new stuff that hasn't been proven. For the past 15 years, ever since people started moving logic and generation to the front-end, I stuck with server side generation and only have updates on client-side. My apps always load like 30x faster than any hipster app. Funny how people finally realize this and move back to server-side generation lol. Every xhr request adds loading time and many applications today need like 60 requests for content while only 1 is needed.
People don't change to a supposedly better tech, they will always keep using what they are familiar with. There are better programming languages than javascript, but we are still talking about its various frameworks, right?
Sure, you are right - let's mix client and server into one huge piece of hell instead of caring for loose coupling in your architecture. Be honest and tell people it's just another "magic" that Meta and Vercel sell to naive developers by sacrificing loose coupling. Good luck debugging issues in your spaghetti.
in my opinion, if these other frameworks keep on staying better than react for the rest of the time, then it will replace react gradually just as react replaced framework like angular. of course it doesn't mean to replace it entirely. it will just become the most used. even today angular is still in used by industries. to be honest angular sucks! so is reactJs. i love solid and qwik.
I'm a complete beginner trying to learn either react or svelte. Can someone experienced tell me what they'd recommend me? I feel like from what I've been reading that svelte has better dx, whereas react has better job opportunity. Please correct me if I am wrong
React is not dying, unfortunately, it is the worst option but the most popular, Svelte in the other hand is almost perfect, it is not, there is sill problems on it, but comparing to React is another world, comparing to Vue it is still great, not to far way, but it is better, comparing to React is cowardice
I love stuff like nextjs / gridsome and much earlier tools such as mixture. But I hate the fact it all is very cumbersome and prone for errors. Thats why I decided - screw all of this - I am handcoding stuff again. Guess what. it works.
Yes and that’s okay, so many things are easier in frameworks like svelte or even vue, we should always use the best tool for the job, not the one most popular. Also as a developer you should be able to use any framework to do the job. If you only know how to do thing X in angular, you should invest time in learning other tools.
Server side is really not good. You do not want to run node on the server side. That's a big no-go.
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The only way React is worth is learning its practical peculiarities; with theory is quite difficult to grasp its potential. So learning it thru courses like yours is the only way.
Gosh I remember when MVC frameworks like Backbone had become popular; I had become a little burned out from keeping up with them. When React started becoming popular I kind of drug my feet a bit to learn it and Angular. But I think it is important to understand the strengths and weaknesses of popular frameworks/libraries so you can make better choices depending on the type of project.
Honestly that explains how much people actually care about writing a perfect code. Angular is prepared for anything, these graphs are affected by juniors which actually doesn't really matter. Clients want strong and devoted developers
