Stop riding your e bike so much and start pedaling to lose those extra 20lbs and get in better shape. Then it won’t feel like you are pedaling in mud. Recon 2.8 in the rear DHF in the front.
regarding heavy wheels and tyres. Lighter rotating mass has no advantage except for accelerating and going up hill. Once moving the "flywheel" effect means there is more momentum with a heavier wheel, meaning they slow dow less easily. Ride down a very gentle down hill track, a heavier wheel rolls further than a light one. Like a truck thats loaded versus empty, the loaded one rolls further. Yes, lighter wheels accelerate faster, go up hill faster, steer faster, but go for a long ride with offroad, road, flat, uphill, downhill, my experience is i like wider tyres, i can go anywhere with fat tyres.
I ride on WTB Vigelantes 2.8. It came with these tyres and I fell in love with them. They make a really nice buzzing sound and what I really like is the way it rides over obstacles. Small holes, stones, gravel... it moves smoothly. Downsides are whenever my tyres lose pressure - I can tell. They just become really hard to move. I pump them up a bit and I take off! Another con is they pick up alot of mud. Whenever it happens it is a nightmare! Maybe they need more of a tubeless liquid inside and even if they are heavier, I really would stick to them. Probably would switch to 2.6 and that would be my limit.
Right tool for the job. Plus size tires are only needed in certain parts of the country. In AZ, we have a lot of loose over hard-pack, and a lot of sand in washes. Plus tires are great here. If you're riding in loam land, nah, you don't need them.
I began MTB about 2 years ago on a 29x2.2 weighing it at about 28lbs, I always felt it was hard to pick up speed on because the wheels were so big and I still don't feel very fast on it. When I saw 27.5 plus's I thought that's a lot of tire to push, I purchased one with the plan to swap and install 29" tire wheel combo, gave it a test ride with the 27.5 x 2.8 and loved it, couldn't believe how fast and quick I could pick up speed and how well it handles. I'm sold on 27.5 x 2.8's now, I still love my 29er (my 1st build bike) and like to ride it for a few weeks and then get back on the plus tire bike and it feels like re-living first time every time I do that :) I am a hardtail fan. As with everything YMMV. Love your videos, keep'em coming!
I have a 2.8 maxxis reckon on the front and a 2.8 ikon on the back of my Santa Cruz Carbon chameleon with ibis carbon 742 rims 35mm internal width. This setup is great. Maybe try getting lighter wheels with a faster rolling rear tire so the weight of the plus tires isn’t so noticeable.
So I think the tend has been to move to 2.6 tires for plus. At 3.0 or 2.8, you get bouncy and the weight is too tough. Trailboss is a better rear tire than front. I'm still running a 2.6 front and 2.4 rear and like that setup on my trails.
I have been on 29x3 Bontrager Chupacabras full rigid which are amazing. The Chuppas are pretty light and tough. I use them with Stan’s and even massive big thorns out in central Australia sealed up no problem. I run them at 20psi which keeps the pinch flats at bay while making it super supple. They start to squirm a bit when they get down to 15psi but otherwise handle beautifully. Definitely try the Chuppas.
My new KHS Aguila came with 27.5x 2.6 Havoks, very light XC type tire (moped rated LOL). Just changed to 2.8 inch Specialized Butcher/ Slaughter combo. Much heavier but I really like the confidence they give me.
Tires can really make or break the ride. You need to find something that works for you and stick with it for awhile. I've been riding the Trail King tires and love them. I've also gone back to some smaller tires at this point which seem to help me get around faster.
I love the bontrager XR2 29 x 3.0 on my Stache. They are the lightest plus tires I could find. I run pressures high and don't have a big problem getting the bike up to speed but then again I am 6'6" 255 lbs.
I love my trek Roscoe with 2.8's. My other 2 bikes are full suspension with "normal" tires, and I just don't feel any big advantages from them, but I'm no huge shredder. But for some reason I just love that bike. I run my tires at 17psi and the grip combined with the plush cushion always give me a good time. It has me searching if any companies make new full suspension plus tire bikes these days, to see if I can fall in complete love.
Love my Cannondale Cujo, I was an early adopter since I got mine in 2017 and they're awesome. Though I think when I get a new bike I'll probably go back to 29 since now they have the nice 2.5-2.6 tires. I really like 27.5+ either way.
Try Rocket Ron 2.8 rear and Butcher 2.8 front. Use Huck Norris rear insert. Rocket Ron: 795-820 grams Butcher 1140 grams Huck Norris: 70g Rocket Ron has 4.11mm tall knobs and the Butcher has 4.19mm. Any other Rocket Ron size (2.6 or 3.0) only has 2mm tall knobs. You get plenty of traction with the tall knobs on 2.8 RoRo and since the compound is hard, the tire doesn’t feel draggy like the Rekons (which is measured at 2.6). My wheelsets are: ENVE M635/DT240 (1448g) Reserve 37/Hydra (1750g) Roval Carbon 38/DT350 (1650g) Baron/Hydra (1900g) Baron/Vesper (2170g)
Bit late to comment on this video, but here goes, I use 3.0 x 27.5 Nobby Nics on my hardtail, but where I differ greatly from you is I have much higher pressures (high 20's), at high pressures it runs bumper, but it reduces all squirm and has far better response particularly going up hills, I also ride a FS with 2.3 x 29 Nobby Nics, it is actually a little harder to climb and with less traction of my plus bike Basically my feeling is you should pump your tires up at varying pressures and try and see if it feels better overall, people talk about the fact you can run less pressures on plus tires which is true, but that doesn't always mean you should, give it a good go, nothing to lose you already have the tires, do a rolling test as well just for fun, you may be surprised by the results of different width tires and different pressures
You're spot on about tire pressure and how it effects things. The trails I ride are rocky REALLY rocky. What I have found is that if the tire pressure is to high the tire just bounces back or some times even stales when it hits a rock. With lower pressures the tire molds over the rock and rides smoother. I can even hear the difference when I ride. With a lower pressure I hear a mumble from the tires opposed to more of a ping with higher pressures. This being the case, the lower pressures add more rolling resistance that my legs can't over come. My latest build is running 2.2's! Let's see what happens HAHAHAHAHA!
29x2.35 Schwalbe Big Apples on my Trek X-Caliber. I am a one-bike-does-all guy, so 50/50 road/trail, 70/30 paved/unpaved. I am also a big guy, and 67yo. From Monmouth County NJ, I am watching your video in Ontario, where I am doing a lot of assorted gravel trails, and the other day a rough rocky/muddy/gravel trail in Algonquin Provincial Park. I like these tires and bike. Sure they are heavy, but so am I. They take a beating, and also help cushion. I accept the soft surface limits of their relatively slick tread for better hardpack and paved performance.
I put 2.8 dhf and dhr on my 5010. Didn’t like them. Too heavy and really slowed me down. Not to mention the extra effort to push them. I’m in Illinois. Hills at best. Not for me. If I had downhill I’m sure it would have been great. Going back to 2.4’s! You sound almost exactly as I feel. Just bought a specialized fuse 29. Digging the 29er. Even with the 2.6 tires.
I ride a 2016 Stump Jumper 6 Fatty 27.5 and I love it. I agree with you about the 27.5 x 2.8 minion's. I run them in the late fall and spring on the stock 29 mm rims because there is no better tire for wet rocks and roots that I have found and it's worth the suffering for the extra traction. I have 2 sets of complete wheels that I swap out according to conditions. My second set has a Nobby Nic 3.0 on the front and a 2.8 maxis Recon on the rear this setup rolls fast. I run 13 psi front and 13.5 in back for my 170#. I love the mid fats for that smooth Caddy ride in the rocks and roots but don't expect to win any sprints against your buds riding 29 ers on the straight flat trails.
Wow this video has me wanting to say alot! First, I'm so excited to see the Torrent in this video; I had the same one until was stolen in 2019. I also was underwhelmed by my first experience of plus tires on this bike. I did make a super cheap commuter wheelset for the bike for asphalt only, and that's what was on the bike when it was stolen. Because I still have the original Spank wheelset I get to swap it on to my Trek Remedy from time to time. That's where I noticed the heavy 2.8s give me more momentum and air time off jumps! Going the same speed results in landing further down the landing and more air time, probably from the bouncy-ness of the tires. I now like to use the plus sized wheelset for shuttle days, however I run them pretty high pressure for a plus tire to avoid rolling them in corners under high speed, and to negate the riding-through-mud feeling.
Keep in mind 29 is heavier than 27.5 all tires equal. I like 2.8 rear and 3.0 front on my hardtail in lighter tread patterns run at very low pressures. Currently Ikon rear and purgatory front. The extra suspension of the plus tires on hardtails is worth it for me personally. All my full suspension bikes are 29 though.
I have gone around the plus tire circle a few times and this is what I found. Plus tires (on a non e bike) ARE best for a very specific type of riding. IE soil type and surface type. AND if you are in good physical condition they can actually improve your climbing by a lot. If you ride in soft soils (not mud), loose clay, sand, or any loose rocky soil surfaces they are really great for traction and stability. This is very specific riding and not what your typical rider does everyday so I would not recommend them to most riders. I would recommend trying a 29er and experimenting with tire sizes from there. You might also try a lighter 2.8 27.5 tire. If your not pounding mach speed down heavy tech they should be fine. My 2.8 maxxis recons work good unless you ride in muddy conditions.
I am still using 2.30 tyres on 23mm rims. I see that 2.30, 2.40, 2.50, 2.6 seem to be the most common sizes for trail, enduro. I see 27, 30, mm rims seem to be popular too. I haven't tried bigger. My bike can take up to 2.5 tyres, and some 2.6 cus some brands are not as accurate in sizing. I currently run Maxxis High Roller 2 2.30 in dry conditions, Maxxis Shorty 2.30, in the autumn, winter, spring when it's muddy and no ice, in the winter when it's ice I use use Schwalbe Ice Spiker 2.25 Lite Skin, it feels quite good quite similar to summer setup, and I can run it tubeless with Cush Core, which I do of course. But I only got few weeks on it due to mild winter. I haven't tried big studded tyres, or any big tyres on my bike at all.
I feel like if you want your tires/wheels to smooth out rough surfaces, 29" is where it's at. They just don't drop into holes or hang up on bumps like smaller wheels do. Being able to run lower tire pressures helps, but it doesn't make up for the loss in diameter. I also find that tread pattern and casing are equally important as tire volume when it comes to grip. Plus tires do have one huge advantage though, and that is "float". In loose mud or fine sand, they just don't bog down and tend to get much better traction. That's just my two cents though.
Riding the same bike (Torrent 1). 2.8 is a blast when going down rock gardens or any descent. To be honest it is not that much different then 29 with some 2.6 which are being popular now too (and don't forget that DVO Diamond is actually 29 version with bigger offset, so they kind of did expect the 29 diameters from that setup). That being said, 90% of my rides are more trail oriented, so when I wear this one out I'll go with 2.6
Morning Gene!! Well for me I have my first mountain bike.Its the GT Pantera Comp 2017 model. It has 2.8" tires.I thought i would like them and they do ok,but now days and for a while ive thought about going smaller.I dont ride super rough trails and I dont do crazy things.I would like to try some 2.4/2.5 if the rims allow..Thanks for a new video!
I stuck a 29er in the front and a 27.5x2.8 recon in the back and this makes my bike ride amazingly also another thing is that the wtb rangers are alot better
Hey Gene...The secret to running a hardtail plus bike in NJ?? Run a 2.3 29er up front and a 2.8 27.5 in the rear with a Vitoria Liner...Run the rear at about 16 or less PSI and you will receive all the benefits of the plus size hard tail that you are looking for...The roll over of the 29er and the squish of the plus tire with the Vitoria in the rear...Good Luck...
Love my 27.5x2.8 Minion DHF and DHR II tires on my 2019 Santa Cruz Chameleon Carbon. I feel like 2.8s are perfect on a hardtail, but that’s just my opinion. Since it seems you don’t like it, I’d say convert it (new rims) to a 29er if that frame supports it like mine does.
2.8 rekons and Bontrager on a 63 Ha Ragley Mmmbop ( enduro hardtail ) Ditch the E bike bro ( I have one and it’s collecting dust )and get in shape I say this with love I’m a 53 year old 200 pounder and ride 15/30 mile 3k climbs . 15/17 psi It’s about fitness not grams in a tire .
Just bought a hardtail that can run either 29 or 27.5 plus tires, and ride the same trails as you. (We've ridden to together a time or two) As a 29er, it's awesome! I cleaned stuff that's tough for my 160mm bike with less effort. Just put a set of 27.5+ 3.0s on yesterday, and plan on trying them out either later today, or Sunday at Waywayanda. I'll let ya know how that works out for me afterwards.
Tried out my plus tires yesterday. Rode the same loop I did on the 2.4 29er set up make an honest comparison. To me, there subtle changes in the way the bike handled. Not hugely better or worse, just different. Steering was slightly more vague, and less precise, but I felt like they gave a wider margin of error, making it easier to correct from a bad line choice. At 15psi, they weren't super bouncy, but did ride a bit like having to quick of a rebound setting in the rear shock on a full suspension bike. I'm sure I can cure this with tire pressure adjustment.I didnt get the quite the same " riding through mud" feeling that Gene did, but It did feel like I had used more energy than I had on the 29er set up by the end of the ride.
Try rekon 2.8 3c on rear, good grip, rolls well, and wont alter you geo, or put you bb in the ground. I have bontrager xr4 2.8 up front. You'll need the legs to push it, but for east coast it offers up a ton of grip.
You said it yourself. You have to lose some lbs. I don’t think a bike setup exists that eliminates the massive effects of fitness. I have 3” tires on a hardtail. I find it super useful when the trails are either muddy or very sandy. I never felt a huge rolling resistance difference between 2.4 tire and 3.0. I imagine it does exist but it was less apparent to me. The cornering grip is exceptional (quite a bit better than 2.4). I live in Fl which is quite flat, so not much of an impact with hills. The Cush of 3” tire does give the hardtail a way more forgiving ride.
Much depends on the rim size. not sure if I heard you state your rim size. My rims are 32mm internal. I run a 29x2.6 front and 27.5x2.8 rear and love it. I also run closer to 27 psi. With this "mullet" setup I can descend like a kid again. Traction with Maxxus tires is awesome. Not experiencing any squishy feeling at 27 psi. 6 foot 210 rider consistently hitting top 10 Strava results. Try mullet setup. I'm convinced lightweight is overrated...to an extent anyway...
I will like to thx you for this video, I had a crash on my full suspension and broke my wrist and because I knew I was not going to ride for a while decided to sale the full to by a new one. I still had my hard tail but it was a plus size and well riding it was not as fun as my full but i changed my tires to 2.4 and wow it really made a difference and so much fun THX again
Yes, especially if you prefer the simplicity of a hardtail. My Fuse uses its standard Specialized tyres set up tubeless 3” on the front and 2.8 on the rear. It’s the kind of bike I’ve always wanted and climbs up stuff I’ve never been able to climb previously. I don’t necessarily think they are necessary on a full suspension.
What wheels are you running on your Fuse? My Fuse came with the 30mm internal width Roval Traverse Fattie's but I feel the internal width is too small for the 3 inch Purgatory and Butcher.
I had a 2016 Specialized Stumpjumper 6fattie, which has the 3.0" tires on 27.5" rims. Initially I loved it, but as I got faster (mostly due to this also being the first bike to have a dropper post) the tires felt squirmy and vague over obstacles. I even tried the plus size tires on my new bike (2018 Evil Following MB) and got the same squirmy feeling. So now I keep a 2.5" on the front wheel and a 2.4" on the rear of my 29er.
What are you missing? Leg day! Its gainz o clock, lets go! Haha. Seriously though, I love my '18 Spec Stumpy 6fattie which runs 27.5 x 3.0 front and 2.8 in rear. Ran the stock Slaughter F and Purgatory R for a little more than a season but then went to a Maxxis Ikon 2.8 in the rear after the Slaughter sidewall got ripped to shreds. The Ikon has a less aggressive thread but I can still rip and climb like tank on it. Due to sidewall wear that I am seeing from New England rock gardens (central MA; Vietmam, Lynn woods, Sutton), I just bought a Butcher for the rear and look forward to running that hard. I am 6'3", 245 so I put a lot of power to the drivetrain but I also run Cushcore. CC is a permanent part of my rig from now on. Everybody I ride with comments that I have never been this fast or climbed as well but I think its has more to do with not skipping leg day and skipping 2nds at dinner. I am not judging because I will never be a lean 225 but I love the grip and stability the 27.5+ gives me and I will keep buying +tires as long as they sell them. I enjoyed the video...new subscriber here.
2.6 is plenty, and for most riders too much. If bike companies weren't so greedy, they'd improve existing tire tech instead of pushing "better" rims and all this other tech you "need" because you switched to a "better" tire.
The great debate continues...plus, 29’er what makes the most sense?? I run 2.5 in front and a 2.4 in the back and I love it (27.5). Individual needs and trail conditions will always play into it as well. Good luck getting to the bottom of it.
I do like plus sized tires, but I have to admit, I have begun running a 2.5 in the back and the only reason it's still 2.8 up front is because the tire is still good.
Love my Trek Stache and only have used Bontrager XR2 / Chupacabra (basically same only older) 29 x 3" arguably the lightest tire for the plus wheels. Rolls over everything!
Love my Trek Stache too!!. Changed XR2´s for WTB Ranger 3.0 and it got even faster! Previously I had Specialized Fuse 27.5+ for 2 years and tried it with Ground Control and Purgatory 3.0 tires. Then with MInion DHR and Highroller 2.8. Was a fun bike (and more capable than otrehs on very loose or sandy terrain) but not fast at all compared to normlal 29ers or 27.5s. Then I built Specialized Enduro comp with 1x12 drivetrain, 160mm travel front and rear, 29er with Maxxis Recon 2.4 tires. It was faster in every situation. Then I bought Trek Stache...29+...and things got very interesting. Stache was just much faster and I was less tired. It climbed so much better and was even more confident on descends than a full sus enduro bike. The difference was a really big surprise for me. Specialized Fuse was slow, Trek Roscoe was slow too but Stache was just very fast and very agile (very unexpected from an 29+). I ended up selling Enduro bike because it was signifficantly underperforming compared to Stache. On very technical rerain Stache with 3.0 tires just smoked all XC bikes we tried against it (Xcaliber, Procaliber and Spec Epic). However on long long climbs 3.0 start to weight on you and there is where they´re slower. Now I´m testing very different tires on the new carbon Stache (sold Enduro to buy it). Maxxis Aspen 2.4 WT and Maxxis Rekon Race 2.4 WT. 2 weeks on the new tires (fastest XC Maxxis tires) but the difference is not what I expected (seems its just better accelerating and on some climbs but top speed and downhill performance is not good at all compared to 3.0). Also, you can shorten Stache´s chainstays from the very short 420mm for 29+ to 400mm for 29x2.4 - 2.6 tires or 27.5+ tires and it becomes even more agile. In my experience plus size tires are very good but it seems that bike´s geometry is very important too. The only plus bike that was faster than Fuse and Roscoe was Santa Cruz Chameleon (mixed tire sizes) but not as fast as Stache. Just my opinion
I know from my motorcycle days plus size tyres don’t give you any more grip , what’s more important is the tred and the rubber how soft or how hard , the compound.
2.5 is the sweet spot.i have the 2.8 i think it good for stoping and Climbing it does work on the sand well. It's not fast by any stretch butA bit more confident inspiring and certain loose conditions with the right tire you would see what I'm talking about I think you Went over kill with the minions, Should tried Arden's, But again I think the 2.5 is the sweet spot. But when I did get from the 2.8 I did have a little bit more control The front and did not Wash out. All in all better braking..
So you're cool with the + size? I'll have to look at the Rekons. I can honestly say that I've started having so much more fun on this bike every since I changed the tires.
@@rgmtb I'm a bigger dude and coming off riding the same 26er since 1998 until last season. I like the little bit of damping I get from the plus size tires as well as the added traction. I expected terrible rolling resistance but the Rekons haven't been bad at all.
Gene, I think that sluggish feeling had more to do with the fact they were DHFs. I run a much faster 2.8 Rekon in the rear.. not as good in mud but I don't usually ride in those conditions anyway. As far as weight, I can get away with lighter casings. My Rekon/DHF combo is really no heavier than a typical 2.4. I'm kind of interested in 29 wheels as well. I might play around with 2.4 - 2.6 tires with my 27.5 bike first, though.. Thanks for the vid.
Haven't messed with plus much, but I love riding the fat bike off road. I'm actually looking at plus (either 27.5+ or 29+) for my next bike...but it will also be full rigid.
I’m pretty sure most fat bikes can accept a 27.5+ or 29+ wheelset depending on the original fat tire. But you could be able to get a similar bb height if you pick the right size. You’ll just have a toooooon of clearance so it’ll look a little funny, but way cheaper than a new bike!
I just rode my 27.5 fat bike with 4 inch tires and was way faster on climbs then my full sus bike. A little slower on the down hills but I think that’s because it’s fully rigid. I found this video because I loved the 4 inch tire so I was looking to upgrade my full sus bike to a wider tire
@@rgmtb I think the better traction plays a huge factor since the trails are normally slick without being covered with leaves. I feel more confident being able to push it around the corners because of the wider tire. Most of the trails I'm riding are XC
Ive went from 29s to 27.5+ and didn't like them either i just bought a 2.6 maxxis disector for the front and a 2.5 agressor for the rear im hoping they'll be a good compromise I'll be running them at 20+ psi. Also they say only plus tires on a plus bike I've found no problem so far. Im hoping petal strikes aren't gonna be a problem in rock gardens ive only lost 5mm BB height.
The plus size tires are always going to be heavy the wider the tire is because there is more rubber on a wider tire and the narrower the tire the less cushion overall and the less traction overall. You need to forget plus size tires for your hardtail if the weight of the plus size tire is the issue or get in shape and get stronger where you like the options that a plus size tire offers. Also even if you bought a full suspension plus size tire bike the full suspension plus the weight of the plus size tires are still heavier than the hardtail bike you have now.
At 5'6"-7" ish 29ers are just too big and unwieldy for me. I like the flickability of smaller wheels. With 2.8s, 150mm fork, dropper, and chainring guard my hardtail is heavy. It was a big change from my 09 Trance but if i was going with a hardtail then i wanted the extra cushion of the 2.8s. Yes at first it is heavy but after 2-3 good rides you build up that strength and get used to it. A whole winter later my legs still have the muscle memory but need to get back the stamina. There is no easy way around it. Hardtails are going to be rough no matter what but they are the only bikes i ride now so im used to it. If you are switching between ebikes or lightweight full sus's then you will definitely notice the difference and will probably hate it.
I do switch between bikes a lot so that is a good point you bring up. I'm just blow away how much my Torrent HT changed with the smaller tires. I know that tires can really change the feel of a bike, but what it happens first hand and you can actually feel this change it's crazy dude!
Hehe... actually plus tires are so good but only the young ones can really enjoy and has the muscle to push it and they can see the advantage amd potential of plus tires. While we on the older side should go on a little wide we can't go further than 2.4 or you will be out of breath and suck your power. Bottom line leave the plus tires to the active kids who can enjoy the plus tires
There's always been give and take between easy to pedal and plush-ness with suspension travel/tire size etc. That's why E-MTB enduros are so terrific, you can have it all!
Take it from an idiot, my plus size Maxxis chronicle 3.0 tires make the bike idiot proof. Any line will do. I also tried Minion 2.8 , to much resistance. Like you tried WTB. No traction! The Cronicle tire is fast rolling, unbelievable traction. Perfect at around 15 psi.
