Are the rich going to leave? 

The rich will never leave whilst they still have power, control, influence and ownership.

Remember all the rich people who promised to leave Britain when Tony Blair became prime minister? Still here most of them from what I can see 🤔

Anyone with skills or money should leave, this country has become a crime ridden dump over the last 10 years and there doesn't appear to be any way back!

Most of their liquid assets are offshore and they can't take away their land and real estate.

Like all the bankers in the City who were leaving the UK because of Brexit - always the same recycled horror stories.

If I was rich I would leave after the tories have screwed the public services, roads, NHS, Transport, brexit, etc. What a crap country.

Great clear argument Richard!

Countries with near zero taxes already exist, so why have the Wealthy not yet left? They won't go anywhere. UK Gov seem to have Stockholm Syndrome obsessing over the Wealthy.

The Scottish government, SNP, introduced a higher tax rate for higher earners, (majority of taxes in Scotland are controlled by, ie a reserved power, EngGov) Labour branch office operating in the Scottish parliament tried to claim people would leave. They did not. They know which side their bread's buttered, abd get to drink clean water ;-)

Excellent video. Thanks. Richard, could you comment on why Reeves won't tax the rich. I feel certain that it is,for the most part,because she and Starmer have been personally bought by the rich and don't want their gravy train derailing. Am I too cynical or does individual greed play a large role their decision making? Their acceptance of gifts might suggest that I am right.

I'm so happy I made productive decisions about my finances that changed my life forever., hoping to retire next year. Saving is great but investments puts you on a pedestal where you wouldnt have to worry about savings as you do now.

If I was wealthy I wouldn't live in Britain full stop , just because there are better places and warmer climates around the world , but although I'm none of these ,I would still leave Britain , Its not my island anymore , I have no stake in it .

They register businesses in tax havens and have multiple passports. What people don't like is gov borrowing and tax being spent on rubbish or given away to foreign govs for wars.

The UK is becoming an increasingly less attractive a place to live. If the current government persist with their plans people will leave. I’m considering it, and many people I know are. This was not the case previously. The people I’m talking about here, aren’t the ultra wealthy, so the prospect of moving out of the UK is not a straightforward one, so it’s quite telling that people are considering leaving despite the complexities.

Very good video

Do we care? The rich dont spend their money in any way that benefits uk tax revenue. Buying overseas properties, yachts, ferraris, offshore accounts etc doesnt benefit the uk anyway.

Have seen countless people on YT saying they are leaving the UK because of various reasons. The reality is it’s not that straightforward unless you have large amounts of money or skills that the country you want to move to desperately needs. Loads of things to consider like language barriers, healthcare, schooling if you have kids, can you actually own property where you intend to live, visa requirements and local taxes are just a few pitfalls. Yes, people go to places like Thailand and some love it but many don’t adjust and end up coming back with a lot less money than they originally had. Not a decision to be taken lightly.

But trickle down 😂

Tax is paid in pounds not in percentages. There is only so many pounds premium people are willing to suffer before they move to a sunnier safer and lower cost country . If they leave all their tax and company related taxes will go not just CGT, simplistic and static thinking

"Trickle Down Economics", somewhat indistinguishable from being pissed on!

Some rich people will leave, some will stay. Some less rich people will similarly make their choice. One thing is for sure: everyone who chooses to live in UK in the next few years, will see their wages/savings/pensions denuded in incremental stages by the conscious programme of the increase in the amount of currency made available and the inevitable consequence of the pound having its buying power diminished. It's the favourite trick in fiat currency's book; and one that never, ever gets mentioned by Richard J Murphy.

Great video, it’s so nice to listen to someone that sees things how they actually are.❤

The very rich are wealthy not because they have high incomes but because they own valuable assets - land, buildings, businesses, stocks and shares. Their professional skills (if they have any!) may sometimes be mobile, but their far more lucrative capital assets are often much more difficult to move around. If you own farmland in Cornwall, office buildings in London and factories in Birmingham, you can't take these assets with you to the Cayman Islands and stash them in a bank vault! If you increase taxes on capital gains, rents and dividends associated with these assets, and their owners threaten to leave the country, it doesn't matter. You can still collect the revenue, at source.

I was taxed on income at an overall rate of about 40% last tax year + NI + 20% VAT on spending + council tax. Isn’t this enough? Despite this heavy taxation the most basic public services are absent. it took me 2 weeks to get a Dr. appointment by telephone and even that required a lengthy debate with the reception. Council no longer bother to maintain pathways and verges or pick up rubbish from the streets and pavements. This country has gone into a death spiral

There was a period a few years ago when the Tories would often advocate for the super rich by pointing out that the 1% pay 28% of the UK tax burden. At the time, I couldn't understand why Labour didn't counter by asking how much the 1% should be paying, almost certain to be substantially more. Today, I understand better why Oppositions prefer to stay mute on any number of issues.

I can guarantee you that people are leaving. It's different to the past. London just isn't the appealing place to live it was. Crime is now evident even in Chelsea. I personally know people who are leaving. Also in your calculation, you ignored the income tax we'd lose if they left. If 10% of the top 10% left it would cost us massively more than the £3 billion you suggested. But it's pointless worrying about it, as they are leaving and there isn't much we can do about it now. The possible CGT increases were just the catalyst for getting the wealthy to question how important living in London is to them and ultimately it's just not a great place thesedays, even in the pricey areas.

I don't see how they benefit britain. They've been here decades and this country is going down hill. Last night I heard on Sky news about a port was supposedly having 1billion invested in it but that is not going ahead now due to these new workers rights but then it turned put it was that P&O ferry or whatever it's called😂

We should be looking at lower tax and lowering gov waste of this tax revenue, the uk is dismissally inefficient in anything it does and instead of looking inwards the gov look out we need more. People need more in the pockets and are struggling more than ever with just maintaining a lifestyle

Yes but the 30 year olds on 200k who are leaving would ve been the millionaire tax payers in a few years. The less well off and talented are also looking to better quality of life elsewhere!

They don't necessarily leave, but the money/assets tend to find another layer of protection, see Thomas Sowell re this..😮

As a buy to let owner, I pay a higher rate of tax here, but If I leave the country I will only be taxed 20% at source. It's tempting and I am not even rich.

Yes I think they like to use big sounding numbers when they talk about millionaires etc. leaving. A few months ago they were going on about 9,500 might leave because of a Labour government. Then you discover there are over 600,000 millionaires in the UK and 9,500 therefore represents just one and a half percent of them.

So true. What millionaires can ACTUALLY leave this country for, say, Dubai? Course sellers. Personal Trainers. Influencers. Real estate speculators. E-commerce arbitragers. Retired landlords. Nobody with a real business is leaving the UK. Certainly nobody who needs to interface with the 70m customers here. There’s no low tax country that beats western Europe, Japan, west coast US. You pay to play, and high earners don’t want to move out of the premier division to the second league because it’s easier. Furthermore, on the subject of Dubai, it’s Essex-rabia. An air conditioned shopping mall surrounded by holiday homes. Only supportive of a life lived on Instagram. The victorians all loved their seaside resort towns too.

If you think none will leave you are delusional. Many of the richest are some of the stingiest people alive. Just look at ‘Sir’ Jim Ratcliffe, owner of Ineos and now part owner of Man Utd. Worth around £30 billion. In September 2020, Ratcliffe officially changed his tax residence from Hampshire to Monaco, a move that it was estimated will save him £4 billion in tax.

"They are getting a free ride at the expense of the rest of us." So you want them to leave? We'd be better off financially if they leave? It will save us the expense? Can this be explained or is it just hyperbole?

They re already fleeing!! Maybe the oldies will tough it out but e.g. my daughter has several young highly paid friends who are booked to go. The young talent is not tied to the UK and are off to friendlier more pleasant places!! You imply that people should accept the taxes because of some kind of loyalty/duty but why?? Where’s the service and quality in return? Georgia.Portugal. Uraguay.Ecuador etc so many options for the young and mobile. Punitive conditions and ridiculous housing costs and living costs because of so many taxes and easy travel mean earners are already leaving.

No; *I* don't particularly want to live in Jersey, just in order to pay 3% or 5% less tax. Just so that I could afford a car with a top speed 6 times the legal limit. But then, I haven't made getting rich at the expense of everything else a top priority in my life...

Their money has. Branson has gone. Dyson has gone. That awful plumber has gone. The hedge funds have their assets offshore so they can't be bailed in. They have left and even more. Even the middle class are bailing. That's the more worrying one since they are the ones that fund the mess

First of all, this message needs to be heard and not the carefully planted "the rich will all leave reports in the media" and very useful to have a hypothetical scenario at the end. The scenario however needs to be expanded a bit. A rich person leaving doesn't just stop paying CGT but also all the other taxes they pay. It's worth quantifying what that might be too.

They already have gone where they can.

Lots of flaws with the logic in this podcast. If CGT goes to 40% behaviour will change and the tax collected will not meet the forecasts. What will happen is unclear.

It is true and fair that the wealthy should pay more tax. However, the rich can go to places like Jersey to live to avoid tax. You can then "really" live anywhere in the world for up to 6 months before you must pay tax in that country. I believe it was the Chelsea manager Roman Abramovich who spent sightly less than 6 months in the UK each year to avoid UK tax. He would then jet off somewhere else for several months - but always staying less than 6 months in any country. I think this also applies to Sir Jim Ratcliff. So, the issue is not so simple.

After the debacle with P&O..who knows 😂😅

its not the richest who will leave but a large cohort of the squeezed middle and wealthy retired

It's not where people live, it's what they own. Will people sell up to avoid taxes? If the people who own (abuse?) the water companies want to quit holding those assets, that's fine by me!

I sold my business earlier this month, the money is out (after I paid the appropriate taxes). I'll be going with it all soon. As a UK business owner, the benefits of being a company director and the changes to taxation on small companies over the last decade, (predominantly under the conservative govt) had removed any incentive I had to further invest in my own business. I am far from being alone in this mindset. Combine this with the punitive costs of living here in the UK means there are plenty of far more attractive destinations on this planet where I would now choose to spend the rest of my life. The speculative new changes being made by the new Labour govt are the straw that broke the camels back to many business owners. Not the sledgehammer that is being portrayed in the press. I have become disillusioned and uncomfortable with the direction this country has been taking over the last few years. The recent change in govt gave me no confidence that there will be any changes for the better. In fact, in my lifetime I don't think I've ever witnessed an incoming govt lose popularity so dramatically, so quickly even within the ranks of it's own party members and voters. I spent a year researching options to move to, there really is no shortage of attractive destinations when it comes to taxation, lifestyle choice and cost of living. Even in Europe, despite Brexit. Much of the agenda of videos of this nature on RU-vid and other social platforms present a perpective to the public who don't really understand the difference between being Rich, earning a good living, 6 figure salaries, bankers or being wealthy. The wealthy are quitely moving everything around where it needs to be moved so as not to be effected by any changes. The people making the law (no matter from what party they originate) on the whole are top 10% earners in the UK. Probably top 5% in reality. They will generally make sure they aren't too heavily effected by any changes. Jobs for the boys after all. Once you switch off (if you have the ability to) your political leaning or allegiance. You'll soon recognise that they're "all as bad as each other" no matter what colour rosette they wear on elaction day. Frankly it's become a shambles and I'm delighted (and lucky) to be in a position where I have the choice and freedom to leave. So Richard, this not very wealthy, not very rich, but comfortable individual has decided he's had enough and is off.

They should pay 60% of the wealth they created in Britain if they leave. If you make money from the British market you should pay tax in Britain!

They don't have to leave. It's their wealth that leaves to avoid UK tax , however much you tax them.

Our tax laws are the way they are because the politicians who make them are either wealthy themselves, or they will benefit in some other way.

I think we need to distinguish between the rich and the merely well-off; lumping both together isn't really helpful. However, I do agree that the flight of the rich is simply Express/Mail/Telegraph scaremongering nonsense. Those who do leave are not going to be important in the grand scheme of things and many will simply frown and stay.

If the rich left the UK, then workers would gobble up a larger share of the national income! WOOHOO

How does this fit with the other video proposing that the way the world really works is spend and tax, not tax and spend? So I mean, what is the real purpose of taxing the rich more if we could simply generate more pounds? Is it that we don't think of it as raising money, rather it is blunting the spending power of certain groups relative to others? Thanks

I'm 73 and Ive heard this nonsense since the 1960s.

We can bloody hope so.

I assume this doesn't take into account student loans, as it seems rather lower than what I'm paying on my income.

Already left mate. Why? 100% because of tax. 3 friends have already followed me.

Tax is paid in pounds not in percentages. There is only so many pounds premium people are willing to suffer before they move to a sunnier safer and lower cost country

Taxation is predicated on the notion that government know better how to spend your money, than you do. I have never seen any evidence that this is the case. What is the price for a safe, clean society? 100% tax at source?

Good video with solid research behind it.

They have already started, capital has never been more mobile. Worse still well educated and energetic people are leaving for better prospects in higher growth economies. Never have more countries offered easier gold residence visas on easier terms. The problem with people like Murphy is that they think economics is an accountancy exercise and thus if you could just get the accounting right everything else miraculously falls into place. Projected net inflows of millionaires for 2024. Source: Henley & Partners Country Projected net inflows of millionaires UAE +6,700 USA +3,800 Singapore +3,500 Canada +3,200 Australia +2.500 Italy +2,200 Switzerland +1,500 Greece +1,200 Portugal +800 Japan +400

I hope they do leave because they don't contribute positively.

Haven’t they been here for the last 14 years, how has that gone ?

Only the rich with any sense will leave.

A proportion of the rich have already left and more will leave if they are taxed more. This has always been so and is so now. They will not all leave of course but sufficient will leave to severely dent any expectation of tax revenues. Sadly taxes intended for the rich also fall on the poor and middle classes, they are fairly blunt instruments after all.

Have you thought about trying to get this analysis in front of the audience of Novara Media?

I think this tax the rich is daft personally I also fell 42% tax on income is also too much along with all the background taxing going on this country is tax into suppression. A flat tax of 30% to include ni should be across the board and that's it. The more you earn the more you naturally pay but the % should not increase imho

Well Charlie Mullins has left but I've yet to find anyone who is sorry to see the back of him.

I will not leave. My family is here and this is my home.

Look for vacant sites between buildings as the rich load their properties onto lorries and relocate them abroad like Old London Bridge in Arizona.

Excellent explanation Richard. In my view an Exit Tax at a high percentage to be applied when someone wishes to take their liquid assets out of the country, which were not brought in for investment, should address the talk of the rich leaving. A sort of wealth gain tax applied on exit.

The Polish workers left in droves years ago...UK is not a nice place to live anymore... Even rich people are leaving in big numbers for many years..replaced by low skilled immigrants causing a decline in public services etc.

Jersey might be small and have a 40mph speed limit but on that theory the only place people would buy cars is in Germany for the autobahn. According to the London Assembly website the average traffic speed in Central London is 7.1-8.7mph so why have a car there? As far as implying tax havens aren't worth living in so live in the UK are you suggesting places like Switzerland, Singapore, the various states in the USA that have no income tax are inferior to the UK? Ridiculing to prove a point suggests you have no point.

No, they almost all will not. Next

The wealth gap has just grown out of hand. Tax free dodges made to be used. Remeber the amounts written of before tax is due. The tax burden has to shift.workers cant claim for their transport .their clothes. Their energy. Their homes .

Even more simply, you can't have capital flight with fiat currency. If you leave, you have to either keep your money denominated in Sterling, which means it's linked to the Bank of England and they can access it, or you have to convert to the local currency which means finding someone willing to make the opposite trade i.e. someone who is looking to acquire Sterling. The money never leaves even if the people do.

If you’re not in the top 10% how do you know what we are thinking. Many have left, many planning their escape.

Politics of spite and envy. Why not encourage entrepreneurship to make wealth.

A wise man never tells the world his plans.

I heard the UK had the highest out flow of millionaires right now, is that not true?

12:52 “They’re getting a free ride at the expense of the rest of us” It makes my blood boil to hear such nonsense. Love them or hate them, there is no reasonable way that a segment of society that contributes individual tax that is typically many orders of magnitude more than each of “the rest of us” pay can be said to be getting “a free ride”. Despite paying many, MANY times more tax than the rest of us do, they use fewer tax-funded services than we do, and have access to fewer tax-funded services than we do. Love them or hate them, it’s not the millionaires getting the “free ride”.

I remember the BBC reporters shock when Jeremy Corbyn shadow cabinet member said we don't need billionaires.

Henley & Partners claims that between 2017 and 2023, 16,500 millionaires migrated from the UK. Visual Capitalist estimates that 9500 will leave the UK in 2024. We can debate the scale and subsequent impact on tax receipts, but the outflow itself seems undeniable. Another problem is that "rich" is a very opaque term. I know a lot of people who are not rich in comparison to Hedge Fund bosses, but are skilled tradespeople or small business (e.g. £2 - £5m revenue) owners who have already left or are in the process of leaving - and I don't mean offshoring or doing tax dodges. I mean selling their houses and putting their kids in school in places like Italy, Bahrain, Dubai and so on. It is not solely a decision based upon taxation - but that is certainly a significant part of it. All of the people I spoke to quoted crime, perceived cultural decline and a feeling of overall getting a "bad deal" from what they contribute. Good video as always, though, Richard! Thanks for posting - I do enjoy your content as it challenges a lot of my traditional views.

If they do: good Theyre not paying tax, they only spend a minimal fraction of their hoarded money. Off you go.

Gary Stevenson has a nice take on wealth taxes on the rich. If the tax is on assets IN the U.K. then it doesn't matter if people leave. They will still be liable for the tax. And if foreign owners won't cough up, the assets can be confiscated.

The investment opportunities opening up with big labour projects (another Thames Crossing etc) would seem to me that this would be a rich persons dream. These PFI projects give bigger returns to investors than if the government borrowed from the IMF as the government would pay less interest in these than will go to the private investors.

Also, the billionaire, his assets, and his money, are all separate things that are mostly independent of each other. UK assets are typically fixed in UK, like real estate and football clubs. He can't take it with him, and which billionaire owns it makes no difference. Secondly, he is already very mobile and lives in several countries, keeps money in tax havens, holds multiple currencies, invests in multiple stock markets, etc. The situation is already so fluid and global that it's unclear what 'leaving' might mean or how it would impact UK people. Did we notice? "A third of British billionaires have moved to tax havens after an exodus over the past decade, a Times investigation has found. They are among 6,800 Britons controlling 12,000 UK firms from low-tax jurisdictions. The Exchequer is denied billions a year but many of the bosses still reap the benefits of British assets. Some have bankrolled political parties while living offshore as successive governments have failed to enact a law passed in 2009 that would have banned large donations from anyone resident abroad for tax purposes. Many have been awarded honours or hold titles, with at least one viscount, one baron, six knights and one dame among the billionaires." -- A third of British billionaires have moved to a tax haven, Thursday March 07 2019, 9.00am, The Times Let's try to avoid blaming the exodus for economically disastrous Austerity policies😹And weirdly, the billionaires left under the Tories. 'We must never allow the Tories into govt again. All the billionaires will leave!' [clutching pearls]

Another great video. The principle should be to tax money and not people. That means includes all incomes. The lower tax threshold is far too low. It’s punishment and leaves political room for anti-tax advocates. Tax is a concept for good. As long as it’s a tax on money because it’s paid in money.

Yes they are leaving. Several low tax locations are offering incentives to HNWI. The quality of life in the UK is no longer competitive.

I suspect no. Migrating is a big deal even with money. It disrupts lives. On balance, why would they leave, they are big fish in a small pond. Let the greedy individuals pay a little more.

I'd love to know the true figures for Scotland, rather than the made up figures in GERS

They have already begun to flee...

No one's leaving, so long as the rich have so many tax incentives to stay, and there are many.

Thanks

"Taxing the rich" is a dumb idea. It is based on envy. It always ends up with the poor being soaked. Income Taxes ignores how the income has come in. Murphy ignores deadweight losses and the phenomenon of tax incidence. Most of the really big incomes are economic rent of land and the way to address this is by phasing out taxes on wages, goods and services, and replacing them by a nnational land rent charge. Murphy has always ridiculed this. It would force most members of his profession to find something useful to do.

These rich people, you are most people talk about I’m not the ones we are talking about that should be taxed. We are talking about the ones who own the mortgages owns the infrastructure of our country. The assets that cannot be removed owns the debts of the country these are the people Who should be taxed not the ones that are only 200 300,000 £1 million a year. Yes they should be taxed but they are already been taxed and they should be taxed at a higher percentage, but the real ones are own the assets of the country are the ones that should be taxed, let’s just say I’ve got 5 billion and I decide to go to France so I buy this property that property I buy that that man I’ve just bought £5 billion worth of France. This is what I’m talking about the wealthy, the super wealthy

I like this guy

8:59 “…and suffer all the miseries of living in such places.” Sure, I hear living in the Cayman Islands really sucks when you’ve got loads of money. 🤦‍♂️

I honestly have no idea what you're saying, even though I can tell you are explaining it with extreme care and from a position of expert knowledge. I imagine this is why we'll never achieve a system that works. The average person just can't grasp this stuff.

Simple answer yes.

Just want to say condolances to any country that has to take in Charlie Mullins.