Are Tubeless Tires Worth It? 

The proper test would be what is called a coast down test. Get up to a fixed speed, coast to a stop and measure the distance. You can do it multiple times with each set up then do some math to tell for sure which is the most efficient. You will want to perform analysis using Excel. You have to add the free statistics package and do the ANOVA test. Follow the directions carefully. The more times you do the identical coast down the more sensitive the analysis will be. However, it is just as likely there will be no statistical differences due to the number of variables you cannot measure.

It comes down to whatever is easiest to fix on the side of the road! No matter how fast a setup is, all gains are lost if your struggling to fix it.

Hi Mich I found your channel yesterday and am really enjoying the vids (Subscribed). Really excellent content and very professional. I’m in the middle of binge watching your vids from the start to catch up. Keep em coming mate, great stuff! Blessings from England.🙏👍🏻

I've used butyl in my TL Mavic Ksyrium set for years with great service. Light weight tubes have always ended in tears. TL for sure on the mountain bikes which are easy to throw a tube into on the trail unlike the road bike which would be an ordeal, nightmare. Keen to try a pair of Maxxis road tires as they have been bullet proof on the MTB. Great content Mitch, envious of your BMC.

Orange Seal, my friend. The Silca sealant is really messy, dries out quickly and the carbon fibers clump. It also destroys tubeless tape. As you say, tubeless is more-or-less a necessity on California roads.

Great content Mitch! I’m sure these take a lot of time and effort so here is a small amount towards your next brew as a thanks :)

I ride tubeless now and i feel that it reduces the vibrations. However, I've used latex tubes in turbo cottons for years and loved the springyness. Close second best imo and much less hassle!

Yes the problem is you used Tubeless tyres with hookless rims with inner tubes? The correct set up (Clincher tyres with tubes) may have produced better results. Personally I have never gotten onto the tubeless train and many of my customers are switching back to tubes… I’m a big fan of latex, they feel more comfortable and lighter than Traditional tubes, but they lose air faster. However, with the latest Innovations in TPU tubes I think I’ve found the ultimate setup! I have been testing Ridenow tubes (video to come) and they have fabulous and reliable qualities as well as being the lightest set up. After this I’m sure I will never be convinced to go tubeless and put up with all that pain, hassle, expense and mess.

I'm thinking TPU is for me. Good video

My suggestion: buy the non-tubeless version of this tire (Vitoria calls it foldable on their website), put in latex tubes, and compare that to tubeless. The tubeless version has thicker rubber that needs to hold air. Vitoria website lists it at 330g, while the the foldable version is 250g. That’s 80g lighter per tire. Foldable tire (250g) + latex tube (80g) = 330g Tubeless tire (330g) + sealant (50g ish) = 380g Foldable tire + latex tube will be much lighter and probably feel much better to you.

Fellow LA guy! I think of the tubeless felt sluggish, you had too low air pressure... That has been my experience. If I'm not careful, my tubeless is running at 40 psi and I go for a ride and feel a little strange. Then I get back home and check see that they're at 40 PSI and I'm like oh no wonder I'm so low. Generally can run at 60 and fill fast and smooth but I'm kind of a heavy guy so I always pump it to 70. Victoria, NEXT is a really great tire. I'm switching to that for all my bikes going forward. Feels just a little less fast than the GP 5000 STR but just looks so much more robust. Gives me peace of mind. Used to only run rubino pro before tubeless days.

What style tires were you using? Using tube type tires for the latex or butyl tube is optimal for those setups. Using tubeless tire with tube is sub optimal because the tire already has the tube baked in reducing overall latex ability to deform.

the silca stuff is gnarly... it ruined two of my bibs already. I've been using stans for a couple years and was perfectly happy but fell for the carbon fiber, foaming hoopla. I'm going back to stans. it sealed as fast (if not faster) and it came off my bike and apparel with just a shake of my hand.

I always appreciate your content...great work! For years I have run Gatorskin tires (standard butyl tubes) to try and avoid flats. Last year I ran Gatorskin (w/butyl) on my aluminum wheels and then Conti GP 5000 (w/butyl) on my carbon wheels to try and optimize the rolling resistance. I did most of my riding on the GP 5000's with 0 flats for the year. I could absolutely feel the difference between the Gatorskin vs. GP 5000 tires. I live in Nebraska and split my riding between very nice paved bike trails and then highway/street. Overall the road conditions I ride are generally good, however, being in the Midwest, there are plenty of pot holes, road patching, etc. For this year I am committing to move to latex tubes with the same tire setup to see if I can pickup a difference (lower rolling resistance). The weight savings for me would be an secondary and less significant benefit. While I certainly understand the potential attraction of tubeless, for my riding situation, if I will be riding in an area where the surface is more sketchy, that is when I will run the Gatorskin tires. Overall this is more 'cycling geekiness' that I do for enjoyment, I am not racing and the biggest point of my riding is fitness. If I get faster that is a bonus, but not the point of my riding.

I’ve been completely disappointed with tubeless since 2008 - yes 14 years trying to make it work. My customers love them or hate them too. I’ve been riding latex tubes for a few weeks and have noticed they are losing too much pressure on my longer rides. Today’s 8 hour - 125 miler with 10,000 ft my tubes lost 12 psi! From 90 psi down to 78 psi - that’s going to be a deal breaker for me since my typical events are 200 milers and 500 milers.

I'm not watching this till after the holidays when there's a slight chance I can afford to go tubeless. I will say it's nice to live outside of a city for the first time in 20 years and not have to deal with street detritus nearly as much.

I use TUP tubes and they work perfectly for me.. no mess but lower RR and light weight

Personally I like TPU over latex as they have similar rolling resistance, but leak much less air which I find troublesome with latex (Vitorria) on all day long rides.

I’ve just “winterised” one of my bikes and switched out Vittoria Corsa g2.0 with latex tubes for tubeless Vittoria Rubino Pro, bike feels comfier for the same pressure and doesn’t seem any slower, although I’m fairly sure it is as there is a 5w difference between those tyres. I’m not sure that in the real world the differences are worth worrying about, I’ve found tubeless to be a bit of a lottery so far, but I definitely appreciate any increase in comfort which is leading me to go tubeless for my summer bike too.

Been tubeless in all of my bikes for two years. I haven’t had to fix a single flat since going tubeless. I will never use another tube again. I always carry a tube in my saddle bag so worst case I can throw a tube in if I absolutely have to.

Great content man... you just earned yourself a subscriber.

May be worthwhile to do the test on a consistent climb without as many obstacles. Thinking for this recommendation is that rolling resistance has a much bigger impact (relatively) at higher gradients.

You should try to keep the same constant power rather than the same average power. If your average power is the same but you use more power on a climb and less on a descent, your avg speed will be faster. Try to keep 216W for the whole ride: if you are climbing, downshift until you descending, shift up. Find a route where the max descent rate is not too high to avoid going too fast (maybe 3-4% max).

you need to find a long, no breaking descent. then hold a really fixed position and free wheel

Hi Mitch, as you mentiond you want comments on suggestions on how to improve these tests, here is something that is taught in the first semesters in physics. Basically, every measurement is worthless unless you have an estimate of the error of the measurement. E.g. if tell you I need 10 mins for a distance, that doesn't tell you anything, unless you know if it is 10mins +/- 5secs or 10mins +/- 5 mins. Therefore, you need to repeat tests, so you can get an average and an error. As in the real world, you won't have the time to repeat long runs for and endless amout of repetitions, try to get at least 3 repetitions of each test, even if that makes the test shorter. E.g. it is better if you repeat a 3km time trail 3 times compared to a 10km time trail once, even though you rode less distance in total. Then, take the average duration for that time trail and the standard deviation (certainly you can find a calculator for that if needed) for the measurements. This way, you can compare the setups and now, if your results show relevant differences or where just by chance. An example to illustrate why that is so important (and why it is so frustrating that the standard in youtube does science seems to never give errors): Lets say your set up A itakes for a 3km time trail 9min with an error of +/-5 s. Your other set up takes 9min15s +/- 5s. You know setup A really is faster. Imagine now, you had massive wind on that day, or a traffic light on your route, or you would count the time in your head, whatever, makes the measurements less accurate. Your results might now be: Set up A: 9min10s+/- 30 seconds. Set up B: 8min55+/-30seconds. You would have no idea which set up is actually faster, or if it was decided by the wind or the traffic light. You would only know that the difference is not big enough to be dominant over the other factors unless you repeat the measurement more often to reduce the error. You could then decide wether it is worth it or not, but you wouldn't hold to a wrong result thinking you found wisdom there

These tubes better be good. I just got 2 through your Amazon link.

I only ride Kendas. Same brand as my hose reel cart. (they're always flat, but I never move it anyways.)

Another thing to remember is that you don't need to put the same PSI in tubeless tires as in tires with an inner tube. Tubeless can go lower, which results in more grip and a more comfortable ride!

i use both! sealant inside the latex. usually lasts me about 5 to 6 months with no puncture

Haha. I love the comfort of tubeless but never tried latex. Not sure I want to. My record of flats with tubes Vs tubeless is in the win column for tubeless. I need to create a video on secrets to putting tires on rims. There is a secret you need to learn. No tools needed. I’ll be in LA area in February maybe we could meet up for a quick lesson. RCA rocks. Shokz rock.

just ride 200watts even if theres a hill. dont worry about the speed.

I have latex on one bike and butyl on the other. Butyl just feels sluggish whenever I change bike

I had the same feel as you. Latex felt supple, tubeless was....sluggish? Average speed on both were, however, almost the same. But vibration on tubeless was a lot less. I am using GP5000 with latex, and Michelin power cup tubeless.

I’m not in the market to upgrade tires/wheels/tubes, I still found a lot of good info. Plus, I lol’d at the ‘contender’ part.

You should test equivalent clincher tires with tubes. Using thicker tubeless tire with tubes vs sealant doesn't make sense.

I was worried there for awhile that you may come to the wrong conclusion but some how you came through to the right answer. Yes tubeless is the correct answer to your situation. Any situation that has horrible road and is prone to numerous flats is tubeless territory. PS: it’s not important because you’ve correctly decided on tubeless but making a proper comparison between a tubed and tubeless tires you need to compare a tube tire with a tubeless tire, not a tubeless tire with a tube in it. That’s a redundancy. Tubeless tires have a different construction from tubed tires and feel quite different. Also you typically use less air in a tubeless tire to get that supple feel. Play around with the pressure to experience the different ride and traction.

i run s-works turbo cottons with latex tubes, because tubeless was such a nightmare to get on, i didn’t think i could get a tube in on a roadside puncture - i carry two tubolitos and a patch kit for less weight than a tubeless repair kit

A kool stop tire bead jack would help your fingers a lot putting that tight bead on

Mitch. I beg to differ on the OpenRuns in the rain. Mine were great until i got caught in a torrential Asian downpour. It was literally like being in a shower. The led on the OpenRuns started blinking, and the phones kept powering down. And the control buttons stopped working. When i got home t them in a jar full of uncooked rice to dry thenm out. It took a week, but they came back to life and now seem to be working.

i personally swear on the vredestein latex innertubes they are mado for 700x25c but they even worked on a 32c tire i would recommend that but its latex its stretchy they are 48 to 55g depends on the valve length and higher quality rubber(100% latex;vittoria:95%) And the best of it all is that they are 4 to 3 bucks cheaper try them

You should try Veloflex Record tires with latex tubes. You can definitely feel the difference.

and what tire pressure is the best ?? Silca calc tells me about ~5bar, but Pirelli PZero Race TLR box says (for the same parameters) that I should run 6-6.5 bar !!!

the only important thing is : is it faster?

Fun video. Not sure if Celine Dion would get me pumped for a solid effort, but your power numbers suggest that i should experiment. 🙃 I was tempted to try tubeless but then i saw it fail a friend quarter way into a 520km ride - which resulted in needing to convert her tubeless setup into a tubed setup. I have yet to try latex. Maybe something for next year.

Love your content!

This was a prob tubeless video. To do a fair test you will need the clincher tires vs it’s tubeless tire counterpart in the same brand wheel and bike spec.

White shoes and black sock? You rebel

Betteridge's law of headlines

I like to add sealant through valve stem. You can’t do that with silica sealant.

as expected this test does not say anything, and I'm pretty sure that it is not possible with any expense we can deliver to make a bulletproof test in real world conditions. So I rather would trust the numbers of "Bicycle Rolling Resistance" because though they are from a test drum and not from riding on open roads, they are absolute repeatable and therefore comparable, and though we might get different numbers on our specific raods, the tendency and the ranking should be the same. And they show clearly: Tubeless and Latex are the fastest (with a margin within the measurement accuracy between both of them), TPU tubes are slightly but almost negligible slower, Butyl tubes are significant slower

Hi Mitch! I run tubeless because I ride on those same crappy roads as you. Have you ridden the Strava segment "The worst road in Los Angeles"? It very well may be and it's on my regular work commute. I run lower pressures for comfort and I've only had 2 punctures that wouldn't seal, in 2 years. Oh, and can I have the box your wheels came in? I'm almost eligible for the Scribe Re-Gen exchange and I want to try a set of the Elans!

How have the Corsa N.EXT tires been working out for you? I recently have been trying to get one of them set up tubeless, also on a Roadmachine, but with the stock wheelset. I had a terrible time getting the bead to seat, even using the same Airshot inflator you used. The bead would always fall back into the middle of the rim. After leaving an inflated tube in the mounted tire for a few days and stretching out the bead, I was finally able to seat one of the beads with a tube and then the other with the Airshot. Coming from setting up multiple larger tubeless tires on my gravel bike without any trouble, it's been a nightmare. Now that the bead is finally seated and the sealant is in the tire, the tire's air pressure drops almost entirely every night. I sprayed some water on the tire and bubbles form along on various places on the sidewall, so it seems like an issue with the tire itself. I haven't even put on the second tire yet given all the trouble with the first. Have you had any issues, especially with loss of tire pressure? Thanks for all your videos! I watched the ones on your Roadmachine before deciding to buy mine recently.

How much sealant did you use on your brand new setup?

30c size needed.

Latex tubes are great but I don't think I'd run them around LA either.

hey Mitch voyeur, why not use Gatorskins? I was getting flats too frequently in LA to go with anything else

you said carbon spokes are good for high torque acceleration? sure maybe, but better than any other material of spoke? I doubt it

Been riding for 4 years on conti tyres and butyl tubes. Never had a flat.

A little bit of baby powder helps with fitting latex tubes, not as much risk for pinching the tube.

Hi Mitch, how did you get your wahoo numbers onscreen?

Love the music choices in this one! And your sweat shirt 🥰❤️

I don´t care if it is faster or not, tubeless is great if you´ll get punctures. I don´t give a damn about perfomance, I want to be safe when I´ll get a puncture.

Exposure :( You made it work tho :)

No! Too much of a faff. Clinchers and TPU tubes, job done

Give me m y clinchers and regular tubes. I'll just throw on a pair of ultra low-resistance tyres and skip dessert!

Did not try tubilito tubes though did you 🙄🙄😳😳 😏😉😉

Wouldn't ride latex for the simple fact that they can explode weeks after only slighly pinching them while mounting. There was a thread in a german road bike forum whe somebody crashed downhill and landed in the hospital because of latex tubes. No thank you.

tubes, just talc powder them.

Latex, feels awesome, but oh so fragile.

As much as I appreciate the scientific method, I think at the end of the day your "real world" results with real conditions, provides far more valuable results, especially for riders like us. I don't use a power meter, so all of these channels who ride to a set power don't actually connect with me. Instead I would prefer three rides done blind, THEN come back with the ride data combined with the rider's perceptions. Maybe the data will show that a rider somehow mentally affects their output based on their preconceived biases towards each of the things they test. Maybe we'll even see that watts and avg speed don't correlate across the board. Who knows?

No

I bet in 5 years time from now nobody will be using tubeless and they will be known for the fad that they are.

Tubeless is worthless messy and dangerous

Same psi in every setup?

I pay You Tube to not get commercials and this guy has a long commercial in the middle of this segment. Plus it's not smart listening to music while riding a road bike. Good to know to not bother watching any more of his videos. Plus his "test" of the speed differences makes no sense.

No