When I hear all the flugels in sequence like this- the two Bach models stand out positively to my ears. I have always played Yamahas and Couesnons throughout my career. Mind is blown. Thanks for posting.
The Couesnon sounded immediately intriguing. It's like the most natural even sound, well focused too and pleasant to listen to although perhaps not really wide spreading.
Bought a silver queen in the 70s with a 3rd valve slide trigger and a case for it and 1 trumpet. It was Immaculate then and after decades still is. I admit that some years it was hardly played but because of retirement is now a joy to play regularly. As I remember the price was 125.00 used from a friend of mine who had a mostly guitar,drum business and needed the 125.00 for monthly store rent. How times have changed! Have a happy Thanksgiving. Sincerely The old Northwoods RN
Very cool. Thx for posting the comparison. Personally, I preferred the Yamaha 8310Z first, followed by the Schilke 1040, simply because the intonation was superior to the rest (likely a player preference). The intonation issues of the flugel were evident on each in different places. My first flugel was the Cousnon 140 back in the '70's. As you noted, it didn't have a 3rd valve trigger, which was more evident on the low D's tuning than what you experience on a trumpet. My horn also had poor construction, with the 2nd valve being slightly higher (when you looked at the finger buttons in a line) than the 1 and 3, but it was a jamming horn and a joy to play overall. The Couesnon in this video was tuned a tad lower than the others, sounding overall flat, which was a sonic disadvantage compared to the flugel played before and after it. Another issue I've found when trying flugels is that many makes use totally different bore sizes, which change the playing experience drastically to me (while it often isn't an issue at all to me on trumpet). The Schilke (.406) and Bach (.401) are small bored compared to many other makes offering horns at .413, .433 or even .460. I've always found the .413 to be the sweet spot for me ... while I've got a friend playing a vintage Getzen 4 valve (.460) that just sounds magical ... yet I struggle to play that horn. I played ever flugel I could at the 2015 ITG and then made a purchase ... so by either getting to a trade show, conference, or well-stocked music store like VMI, it is best to try as many as you can side-by-side to see which is best for you. Thanks again for posting. I love comparison videos like this when you play the same riff = it really helps to hear the differences.
I've had a Couesnon flugelhorn since 1978 or so. It was manufactured in the mid to late 1950s. Great flugelhorn, highly sought after by jazz musicians in particular. I had it completely refurbished and refinished and it looks like brand new.
@@jean-pierredevent970 Nope, an older one, when there was only one model, the same produced for years and years and years... My 4 valve Getzen Eterna has the straight line through the valve block, but I dunno if it changes a lot of things sound wize... It is a way tho shorten the valve action, and a way to cut down cost production, coz the pistons are all the same, interchangeable...
@@degelepassant1186 I have always played trumpet but since I love to play lyrical (not big band) I tried flugelhorn a few years in Flemish "fanfare" and the Courtois played easiest. Even some expensive Bach and Yamaha felt stuffy in comparison but guess it's personal.
Thank you and very well done; your comments ring true to what I was hearing, even through my earbuds. Now... could you do another one of these with the Yamaha 631, the Kanstul, Adams, Schagerl, Hub van Laar, or others?
Are you playing the Couesnon with a French Taper mouthpiece? Usually intonation complaints of the "Queenie" are caused by this.. wrong taper. If you want to play 'small morse (bach) taper on a Couesnon, you need a Melk/GR leadpipe.
In 1976 I bought a 'Sharon' (2nd line Quesnon) with a soft leather gig bag for $150 (still have both). I'd pit it against ANY of the ones you've shown. It came with a 3rd valve trigger, but the thing plays in tune better than the famous Jerome Callet trumpets. I went to Joe Marcinkiewicz for the mouthpiece. Very beautiful sound, and I found out that only about a hundred of these were made, so VERY rare........am holding on to mine forever.
Vintage Flugelhorn? Why I don´t see any vintage flugelhorn in the video? Why the tester is playing with a U-shape (tumpet) mouthpiece instead of a V-shape mouthpiece, which would be the best for a flugelhorn?
Both the Bach 182 and Couesnon flugelhorns played in this video are from the 1960's and are no longer in production. The Schilkes, Yamaha, and Bach 183G are all modern production instruments. Steve is playing on a standard Bach flugelhorn mouthpiece: www.virtuosityboston.com/vincent-bach-standard-flugelhorn-mouthpiece.html
I use a size 3 rim for all my horns. The FH mouthpiece IS physically different internally, but simply looks like a smaller version of the trumpet mouthpiece.
Hey can you or someone else make a video on how to take apart the horn and clean it? I’ve had a conn flugel for a few months and it’s time to give it a bath but I’m scared to take apart the trigger.
Thanks for the suggestion! We'll look into doing one. Taking apart horns can be intimidating, and there are a lot of minor steps which can harm an instrument if you aren't careful (e.g. removing felts before immersion). If you're concerned about the process, most local shops (including ours, if you're in the Boston area) can professionally disassemble, clean, reassemble, and readjust the instrument for you, which will give a deeper and longer-lasting clean than you can do at home.
I always prefer vintage horns (let's say pre mid '80's), however, with vintage horns you run the risk of red rot, not always tho, but usually older horns will require a new MPC receiver and if there's a leak in the horn (if the horn is over 40+ years you can almost bank on the fact there will be), that requires a valve-refit.
I listened to the test without audio and without knowing what flugelhorn were being tested... It's no surprise, the Yamaha 8310Z that I love and play on, is the one that stands out as the best to me.
Maybe I am too picky, but none of these doesn't sound quite what I would want in a flugel. Some have a quirky connection between notes, other have intonation issues....But If I had to pick one, the surprisingly for me, it would be the Yamaha 8310Z, which sounded like the most reasonable compromise.
That's perfectly fine! Don't forget that the player, mouthpiece, and obviously playing the individual instrument daily for years will eliminate most issues with note connections and intonation as the mind will subconsciously adjust these things with practice and familiarity. Steve only had a few minutes to adjust to each instrument, and switching between instruments like this only serves to bring out the flaws/differences as there is no time to compensate. The 8310Z is a great option because it is consistent both in feel and results, unlike most vintage models. However, some folks just prefer the tone of vintage flugels. Ultimately every instrument is a compromise; there is never a 'best' anything. That's why we have a big wall of them instead of a single model to hand to everyone who walks in the door. There's an option out there for everyone!
