Are You BROKE From Shooting Music Videos? Watch THIS... 

Hope y’all feel about this topic?

Bro as a father off two this video brought a little tear to my eyes. At the age of 46 living in the real-world having bills to pay...realizing all what you're saying is totally true. My whole life I have been busy with creating music, computers,editing and what not. I never "made it" as an artist. This "hobby/creating" always provided a way to escape real life and express myself in many creative ways. long story short: This resonated with me...I think you are totally right.

Really felt this, as an artist and videgrapher i get the complexities of pricing but most the artist are blind to the amount of money, work and effort there videographer has to do just to make a project stand out

For me, it’s definitely more of a passion to film music videos. I understand that there’s no room for a high paying career through music videos. It’s a very loveless career path. You have to love it more than it loves you. That being said, I still take up wedding film projects, commercial projects, and product photography in order to cover the bills. Having that mindset has helped me immensely. For anyone reading this, and debating this situation for themselves, you got this. Don’t give up. Believe in what you do, and follow the creativity. But be smart along the way.

This is exactly why I quit shooting music videos for the up and coming artist I was shooting for, too much demand for the little to no money I was making. I'm having more enjoyment shooting other content. Good job YC!!

Whole heartedly agree. I enjoy doing music videos still, but no longer depend on them for videography revenue. I went the corporate route and am an in-house videographer now.

I’m 24 years old, I’ve been shooting music videos for only a year now. I’m a 7 year photography veteran. The clients are a pain but the only reason I keep going is because music video editing teaches you SO much about editing software and how to get creative editing videos. Because of the fact they require SO MUCH editing and camera tricks just to stand out, you speed run your learning process of things like premiere and after effects.

This is exactly why my friend and I shoot free music videos. These artists are just like u and can’t afford to pay for studio time and music videos. Only get into this if you fr enjoy it. There’s no money in music videos unless u get in the perfect situation. Find an artist whose music u like, and just try to grow with them. Be safe too, most of these artists don’t respect u

I absolutely agree 100% - BUT I think through our experience over the years, I would say it has other important takeaways. I would say Creators need to learn how to help their client understand ROI. We need to do a vidcast on this topic!!

During 2020 when the world was shut down, my cousin and I got into music videos and made like 3-4 music videos. My cousin was a music artist himself and after we realized how broke and non-business like artists were, we got out. We do real-estate videos now and make a LOT more than we ever could with music videos. I'll still do one as an outlet for creativity...but music videos are over for me. Keep these kinds of vids coming brother!

Crazy thing is, when Jakob Owens mentioned this months ago, music video directors etc tore him up for it. When I saw him say something about it, I was happy because I was feeling the same way. Especially this year. Now that you’re saying it, it makes it all the more real. Time to diversify that income!

IF YOU CAN RECORD MUSIC VIDEOS YOU SHOULD GET INTO WEDDING VIDEOGRAPHY !! There's three times the money, all you need to do is capture highlight moments, slight posing ( or just follow the wedding photographer) I made this change last year and the results and work has been life changing !

Dude I've been filming and directing for a better part of 13 years and after almost 50 music videos produced, I stopped shooting music videos in 2019 because I realized the industry was seriously crippled and had no place for longevity and stability. Over and above having to compete with recent graduates who can produce the same quality of videos you could, at less than a quarter of what you would usually start charging a client for a video, because these young guys are trying to make a name for themselves and would work for a peanut butter sandwich if need be. So the industry collapsed in my opinion and I moved completely to commercials and events

Man this is too relatable. I’ve been struggling with this for years with artist wanting videos and the over the top visions. The visions don’t match the budget. ❤🎯

I worked in Hollywood, CA from 2006-2009 working on music videos, film trailers, and film titles mainly. But, I worked for motion design companies freelance, and it was for big name movie titles, and big name famous musicians that had money flowing in, so it was profitable for me. I was making $40 an hour back then. I don't know where someone would start when it comes to indie film trailers/titles or indie music videos. It seems like that would be a tough road to go down. Now, I have my own company and am doing video and animation commercials for businesses, and adding as much creativity in as I can get away with, and its fun!

Definitely feel this! And sincerely appreciate the transparency. Started video career with the intention of doing music videos but realized how tough the monetization aspect is so focused on real estate media and now that we have a steady stream of work in that industry, I’m now starting to pursue music videos again without the stress of relying on them. Always appreciate your content! 🙌🏽

I don't just shoot music videos anymore, but what I will say is that what really helps clients understand where money is going, is providing an itemized invoice. Even if you own every single gear you're using during the shoot, list the item on the invoice with the going rental rate; you can increase or decrease these rates as you see fit (depending on the client), but this really shows your client where the money is going.

I felt the drug dealer part lmao.. markets overly saturated nowadays. I stopped shooting music videos about 2 years ago, and got into broadcast. LOTS of money in that space, and if you're lucky you can get crewed for an entire season, and hopefully get a call back for the next year. Been doing it for a couple years now, and yesterday my shot was aired on ESPN for the top 10 plays haha. That industry by itself is a WHOLE thing. Like you said yourself, music videos are like a stepping stone in this industry, gets your feet wet, but not everyone is Cole Bennett lol. Great video man. You came a long way as a creator yourself, was watching you when I was in film school 4 years ago, being a content creator is its own thing as well. Should talk about that in another video !

Bro!!! you've just spoken my mind. This is exactly what i was tryng to explain to a client the other day when they started wondering why i no longer work on music videos. I went full time into cutting documentaries and corporate stuff. Thanks for this.

As a music producer/engineer I agree with you on this and I've been telling other creatives about it. I'm also at the point where I don't want to just sit at the studio and take clients after clients without a bigger purpose. I'm leaning more towards working more closely with artists and trying to help them understand the business more so they can take their career more seriously.

Love the video! Definitely hear where you coming from. I shoot Music Videos and came to an understanding that it’s not as popular as it was previous years. Me personally, Music Videos have been dying due to short form content and labels are putting more money to that instead. Music Videos are definitely a perfect place to start your creative journey which can lead to something bigger. Lastly, shooting Music Videos can be challenging if you’re not in a big city such as LA, ATL, & NY. Im from LA and it’s very competitive but there’s many artists that are always looking to shoot. There’s some that may be a pain and some that are serious about their stuff, just part of the game.

That's how it was for me making music tbh... I stopped wanting to be an artist ages ago as I began learning the business side. I want to get money with my camera, but not doing music videos. I can see that the bag is in other places frfr... U can be just as creative in all of the fields, respectfully.

I’m shooting music videos rn , and you right . Rn I’m just shooting hella free videos to get work in and the last paid video I did was in July . Imma still do this , and shoot hella free videos until 2024 , I’mma get in my photography and graphic designing bag . It wasn’t all for nothing , cuz all the equipment, skills , and knowledge I gained on the way .

My #1 response when asked if I shoot music videos. “No”. And it’s for all the reasons you mentioned. Most musicians are broke or put all of their money into making music and looking the part .

I don't pursue artist to shoot anymore. I work with businesses who want to promote their brand through video. I do have a artist I shoot regularly as partners. The game has changed. Just find you a great artist you like and make them great videos with scripts and shot list. I got exhausted with the run and gun shoots.

So many facts said in this video. I've been shooting for about 12-13 years, and I had to stop doing music videos because the pay just isn't there. Too much effort put in on the shooting and editing side.. the outcome just doesn't seem worth it at all. I switched to commercial after I seen what a retainer deal could do for my company vs shooting 50-100 music videos. Great way to be creative, but doesn't weigh out financially. Crazy you we're one of the people I followed while in my music video shooting era, really respect your work. The facts are that the times have changed and so do we. We want to elevate in our craft and life as well. Finding new ventures is always the way to stay creative.

Faxxx,when it comes to indie artists, You have to do it for the love of the culture . That's how we as an artists can help each other.

This is one of the realest RU-vid videos I’ve seen in a long time

I understand doing music videos for artist that aren't big is hard but you gotta remember you gotta work up from shooting low artist to high artist at a certain point you gotta stop filming for low artist and put yourself in a lane with top artist so the money issue went be a problem. You gotta separate yourself from low artist if you are trying to make a living at shooting music videos.

I left the scene years ago, i became a welder actually and got into the Union. Now I make 6 figures guaranteed plus more when I want to, a pension, retirement etc. It's the best choice I could of made for myself. I own a few properties now that allow me to enjoy life and travel more without worry about my next gig. I still own, camera and I'm still a camera addict I feel it kind of stays with you that's hunger to create but I don't. I just have fancy gear now to satisfy my urges but I don't create anymore, basically cause of most of the reasons you mentioned. I'm so glad I left when I did cause I look at the industry now and it's extremely saturated everyone out of school is doing stuff for free. Atleast where I'm at now, I get paid for my skill. Not many people can do what I do, working on Bridges. And I'm here still following video creators cause I still enjoy watching people's work and the process.

Been contemplating this topic for a minute, but this video pretty much put a nail in the coffin.

Exactly. I've been shooting music videos since 2018 and quickly realized how expensive it is for artists to release music and get videos, etc. It's a shame when they're actually talented but don't have the funds to support their career. But, paired with the recession right now, shooting music videos as a primary source of income is getting really difficult. People just don't have money like that anymore.

I love how you’re talking about artists not having money and overlaying footage with them pulling up in a lambo. Perfect summary 😅

I still do music videos but not as enthusiastic about it as I used to be and now that I'm moving into the Movie/Documentary realm for me it's less stressful

Its truly fascinating hearing this coming from the music video side as it parallels perfectly from what myself and my team are experiencing dealing with the fitness / bodybuilding world. I was listening/watching and just hearing the same struggles we deal with working with athletes and brands. Everybody is looking to have great, high quality work, but paying the value for the production of said work has always been a bit of a struggle. Loved watching this knowing that it seems were all going through pretty much the same things.

YC I LOVE THE FACT THAT YOU GIVE YOU HONEST OPINION. Its like anything else you have to have you hustle goin. This video was not to crush dreams but to simple GIVE KNOWLEDGE. The STRESS YC is talking about is REAL!!!!!!

Facts! You kept it raw and real. Love this man!

I love when you show behind scene of your work brotha... I could watch this stuff all the time.

AS A BLACK GUY I never wanted to shoot music videos. ive been in TV production since middle school. I never wanted to be the cliché black camera man and when people ask what you record answer with music videos. I did a bunch of event coverage and parties, but once corona hit. those calls stopped. that's when I finally decided ill do music videos cause a lot of people been asking me to. now its like a music video to me right now is working at a deficit especially with run n gun videos. the market is saturated and at the end of the day the video guy is LAST on many local artist budgets. Managing social media has yielded better results. Your point on monetization is something I been thinking about for over a year when it comes to making the most out of the product not necessarily the artist pockets. The more I do the more I understand these artist need managers (not homeboys who got mgr in their bio) they also only post a video 1 TIME , on release day. One thing i can say is, you need to use the music artist as an outlet for YOU the videographer to put out your own vision. IF the money they give you, is at best gonna break even you should put out your vision. have fun with it. think of the rapper/singer as an audio ad for YOUR visual work. and add all that VISUAL work to your portfolio. appreciate your videos always g. I'm subbed to you in like 15 RU-vid channels.

This hit me in the soul. You arent siding with the artist but being understanding of musicians financial dilemma. I still like doing music videos cause their fun but im willing to work with the artist knowing they dont have the money I would want. I make them my test subjects to try new stuff. Great video per usual bro.

Been battling with this thought for a while the pros definitely outweigh the cons when it comes to filming businesses

Out here in Germany, me and my folks have done creative work and videos for Felt Bicycles, Continental(car parts), Car Shows, Media Company Parties ect. These people got dough to pay you, So I see where you're coming from. I also do videos on the side for the homies but the Corporate work is where the money at👌🏾

Maaaaann. Real talk! You speaking some facts. Yes videos are fun but the pay just isn’t worth the battle anymore. And like you mentioned in 2023 things are just different. It’s not like the days of before when music videos were super creative and people couldn’t wait to watch them. Now, it’s just different. Don’t get me wrong I do enjoy creating them (like you said it fun) but it’s not the primary stream. YC, this was prolly one of your best videos of expression. Good looking out.

I’m currently 29 years old. When i was 19 I first started shooting music videos for a friend using the ipod touch camera since it was all I could afford at the time. At 21 i bought my first dslr camera canon rebel t7i and used sony vegas pro as an editing tool to shoot a few more local artist around my area. Then when covid hit, i had purchased sony A6500 as my majn camera that would offically set off my music video career. In 2023 I had shot over 100 music video projects and had made atleast well over $350 a video. Being almost 10 years in the game I would say I enjoy making music videos but also hated & dreaded the editing process. After watching this video I came to realization that doing what I did over the past handful of years wasn’t really worth it. That truth hinestly breaks my heart. When it boils down to the cost of every peice of gears & computer systems & extreme amount of hours put in the craft, money wasn’t really the driving force of what kept me shooting all these years. It really was the passion & dedication that kept it going. I no longer think that I can make a living off shooting music videos alone, but simply just adds on to my networth. At the end of the day, shooting music videos is just a hobby driven by passion. I will still shoot videos, just not with the mindset that it will bring me financial freedom. Thank you for opening my eyes up.

I literally just had this talk yesterday with my dawg. The music video game is over saturated and no longer worth the headache that comes with it.

I quit music videos in 2019 after going on tours with 2Chainz & Young Dolph first tour and shooting for a ton of people in the Industry… You are absolutely right!!!!! It’s sooooo many businesses that need content that have the budget, apartment complexes, and different industries you wouldn’t even imagine that need your skills.. I love music videos but do it all! As a creative DONT limit yourself to one thing, venture out and create different type of work! Respect YC for this powerful video opening people eyes 🤝💪🏾

So true. So real! Thank you!

Over from a year ago till all this week I been adding it up I been filming videos love it the freedom aspect you mentioned all of the positive and negative points and all the fun stuff but after dealing with the hassles I determined a while ago the market is just bad for us because people still want to only pay $500 and that’s what I was making when I started 6 years ago. Prices have gone up on majority of items in our economy and after losing all my gear it’s no longer acceptable. Im wanting to push boundaries to make better videos but the disconnect between us and the average artist is still very much apparent. This video is the nail in the coffin for me. I enjoyed the run. I enjoyed watching your channel when I started but the amount of quality and effects in demand is no longer reasonable for me to continue. My goal is to now put my time and resources into my own self and the new formatting to vertical content on socials has had me annoyed with the entire process. Thanks for the transparency and honesty and insight because this is an angle that has never been seen to most. Thanks YC!

I agree 100%. I love shooting music videos but the numbers rarely work out!!!!

I feel this so much man, I. Wanted to be the GUY in fitness cinematography, and finding out not only is it removed from most filmmaking spaces , but I enjoy RU-vid and helping creatives more , and shooting what I WANT to shoot Ironically, I’ve shot 3 music videos

Thanks for being honest about the industry especially at the lower level artists. I've been in rooms with some of the best producers best studios in my city with grammy awards, platnium records on their wall and still I get hit with the "can you do it for free" that's why I focus on business clients and projects that pay WAY more money for WAAAY less work. I will tell anyone to do music videos as a side gig and just cold call companies until you get consistent business and event clients. Because when rappers and artists talk money its the most frustrating thing ever.

Respect. Diversifying the projects we shoot should actually be the focus. How can I flip this into a bag. Then how can I re-flip it again. Then how many times can it be flipped before it’s unflippable 😂

It is the main reason I started working with businesses VS independent artists. The income/work ratio is unmatched. I still do occasionally do music videos, but only if it's worth my while.

It’s crazy because I recall you saying this on a video a few years back. I def agree with you 100%. Music videos are pretty much passion projects. If you’re a videographer you should def have another industry as your primary stream of income. You’re a true gem tho bro. I’ve been following and watching your growth since the GH4/GH5 days. I think you’re the reason I got one. PS: I’m not sure if you’ve done it before, but if not I’d love to see you shoot an entire music video using an iPhone and filmic pro. Keep working King!

As someone who got his foot in the door and has got bigger budgets from labels and mainstream artists, I agree and disagree. If you don't have an original style don't go the music video route. If you don't have a passion for it, don't go the music video route. There is only a small group of teams and individuals who really succeed in this particular field. I've been tapped in with you before I even got into the mainstream market, and you always keep it 💯. I'm just speaking from experience because I've gotten pretty deep into the process as a Video Director/Editor and this road is definitely not for the weak. There is a chance if you have a unique vision or visual style so I always push originality. Originality got me out of my small city. Keep striving!

We NEEDED THIS thank you

huge love for the thoughts and the candour 🔥

Man you're on point. I started shooting and editing music videos back in 2012, i pushed until 2018 when i get my first job in a local tv station. The pay wasn't that great in the beginning but it has helped me grow so much from where i was.

i totally agree with you bra. Im glad somebody said it! This is the truthhhh

This hits home 💯💯💯., love the REAL TALK .. REAL TIME … REAL HONESTY 👍🏽👍🏽

I shot my first music video in 2007 for $150. The shit I had to go through for that little bit of money told me that was not the way to go. Lol I learned early and quickly. I started shooting weddings and BOOM - I found a different path and clients who had a budget for shooting their wedding. Good luck to those who try to make it in the music video industry. I agree with YC. Not many musicians can afford it and there are just too many "wannabes" out there with cameras nowadays.

fully hear what you're saying bro. It's hard dedicating your time to situations like that honestly.

Man, This is one of the most truthful videos I’ve ever seen on youtube. Big ups to you YC because a lot of people don’t understand…

This is going to free a lot of people and push them in the right direction! Keep being real

Understand this like this, want to be highlighted from mass have to work hard and pay for quality. Respect your and others' work. If you can't afford it, make things happen to make it. Don't cut the edges cos no one will be happy being cut on a reward they are worth.

This video is super dope. It kind of hits home for me because all I use to shoot was music videos and I transitioned into movies, commercials, and other work because of this very reason. ✊🏾🏆

A topic that people don't speak on but you hit the hammer on the nail bro!!!! I agree with every point 10000 percent , I'm in houston bro I swear this how it goes

Yes sir jumped over to corporate videos couple years ago. 5k for a 30 second video so much better than $500 for a music video.

Such great perspective. Music videos give you a fast track into learning how to film - camera techniques, how to color grade, learning your camera, working with talent, creating a story... but monetizing is the toughest part. And I love that you pointed out that artists just may not have the money - it's not always the they're trying undercut or devalue the talent - they just aren't making money themselves. With all of that said, music videos can be so fulfilling with the right artist - getting to collaborate to tell a visual story for the music you enjoy listening to can be so fun... So lately, I've just began going into these with the mindset that it's a "passion project".

As a musician and filmmaker I usually plan videos I can film myself or I hire the DP for their day rate and I do the rest of the preproduction and post. My most expensive video was 2k, most of it went to director and his crew. I found the location, provided props and edited the video (I did work as a professional video editor for a couple years). The director did find some of the extras as well. But it was the most stressful experience! Overall, I definitely agree that it’s not financially viable route. It’s definitely a good way to develop your skills and creativity!

I have been feeling this for years, but I still shoot from mvs from time to time.

On point that’s why I also have my paperwork, ownership, and licensing on point. It’s the only way to build an entity that’s got its own independent motion that has the strength to provide back to the client.

I been shooting music videos for awhile but gotten to a point I’m slowly catching myself drift from the space

Real talk. Lately I've been thinking of making the kind of switch where I'd be making more music videos / fun projects since as of right now I'm only in the commercial side of the industry (making good money) and feel like I'm lacking on having creative projects. But this is a good reminder to keep my feet on the ground. Cheers from Finland.

Never saw a videographer talk about things from an artist view. This video so real

Never shot Music Videos and only rarely did it cross my mind - BUT, listening to this was quite informative. Thanks for sharing

Truth! I don't even pay myself for my own video recording, editing and everything else I do online.

AMEN!🙏🏼 💯 BELEEDAT

100%. I started off shooting music videos and went hard for about 5-6 years before leaving it completely. I still think every now and then of going back just for the love, but your 100% right. The artists are in a completely different world as 99% of them make Zero money from music at all. Videographers have to imagine, would you spend money on gear if you literally brought in Zero dollars from shooting videos? That's kind of what it's like for a musician to spend on money on a music video. On top of all of life's regular day to day stressors. There is no way for it to not get to you, especially when you are coming up because - at least for me - I was shooting videos to pay rent. The numbers just don't add up man, plus you get to a point where you are just shooting music videos to pay rent and you don't even care any more about the creative. Only way to do it is as passion projects in my opinion. Unless you are one of the very few who make it to the top. Much easier to have a career in commercial work that is at least somewhat creatively rewarding than music videos.

This is factssssss i use to help my ex homie & i saw all this from a mile away once i really accepted it & started learning how to film i immediately knew music video was something i wouldn't pursue. For the few artist that have money mostly from drugs or scams will spend more money on there outfit then the video. Those type of ppl usually just want the occassional clout since music isn't where they get there income they don't put there all in it they just enjoy the studio lifestyle. Theres no money in real estate content either unless your extremely lucky so creators use these to build a portfolio but explore new roads in the process.

Thank you I really needed this video , I’ve been doing videos for awhile now and have realized it does take a lot and lost my gears to gangs that felt I didn’t do videos for. I have been depressed since but seeing this made a difference to know I’m not the only one struggling with this

Real talk. I tried music video directing. The effort I was putting in just didn't equate to what I was getting out. I just do it as a hobby now.

Keep these coming, the conversations are informative and interesting.

I really felt this for real. Music videos are great but have a lot of cons which sucks. Only way to make money in music video is really coming up with an artist. If you start with an artist and part of the camp then you can make money and have constant work. I could be wrong

I am both a video producer and a music artist, i understand both sides and agree with you, its close to impossible to sustain a video production business today that relies solely on music videos, even people that have been doing it for a while shoot interviews etc , but realistically music is a terrible investment for most people, you have to truly, genuinely want to do it in order to make it work, and surprise surprise, you are going to have to work your social media creatively and really hard to get to the point where music videos make more sense financially for you.

Dope video. I do music videos as well, but yes, you’re right, it is really hard to make money off of it. Dealing with a rapper right now, who still owes me more than half of my money and is taking weeks to pay it off. Lol. Can you make a video on strategies on how you can reach out to businesses and companies to shoot commercials?

Hard core truth, I appreciate the honesty we may not always want to hear it but it needs to be said. Thank you always for your dope content.

Such real truth! As an artist/creator who also wears too many hats, I agree. Its a very interesting debate on how to monetize that which you love and in return help others also create the art too in this difficult economy. Thank you for this!

the game is hot right now "for me" in phoenix Arizona, but even though, I feel the same, some artist want every thing out of you but just under stand the process...great clients are far in between at times & the streets can't always provide.... The cost of life on top of that for every body is always a up & down situation. crazy how the dream starts out so beautiful but you go on you how much the inner workings begin to change.

You have shot some of the dopest videos, and I have again gain so much from watching your content. So hopefully you can post more of the behind the scenes of your most current projects. everything has a grind in life so if your slowing down or it feels like that it’s all good 👍. You have remained focus and your content has always been great.

Great info ! Helped a lot in understanding the short comings of not only the music video industry, but you have to start planning for survival in the whole filming industry in general.

Hey man, I agree. It is a tough business. Making profit is really tough. Also most videographers I would say have side hustles until they "make it" whatever that means. So it is a real push on both sides. There's also the debt you get into purchasing not even high end gear but the necessary gear to shoot and edit. So for me music videos are a hit or miss. But they are fun.

All real 100%. I just went over budget and spent my own money trying to make a video better. So i went under by -$300+ …I could’ve just said no to the project, but I believe in the artist, plus I also need to build up my portfolio a bit, so I viewed it as an investment for myself and the artist in a way. The things we do for the love of the Art smh 😢

Honestly i like to make music video for fun and i don't care about the revenue it gives. I like to gain the experience when im just making something fun with my friends.

I been saying this shit for the past 2 years. You spitting big facts with this one bro.

As a musician/studio owner it hit me real hard. I'm from India and Artists don't have a source of income or usually pretty low, cuz they dividing their time doing job and music at the same time. people think the same thing when they come to the studio specially New artist oh you have the studio and other stuff why cant you do it for lower but same they dont think i invest my money in the pc, audio interface, mic, rent etc. I generally make most of my money through audio books and just plain recording. keep it up man that was nice video.

appreciate your Helping Us To Evaluate The Reality

Excellent points. Truth is truth

I used to charge $500 for music when I 1st started. That was considered expensive by alot of artist. Overtime I started improving and began getting booked for weddings and event for double, triple , quadruple and more than those $500 music videos. The worst part, my 2,3,4 thousand dollar clients are less demanding than those cheap artist. I eventually double the music video rates to sift out the cheap of the cheap and now I dont even book music videos at all anymore. Too much work for too little money. A whole day of shooting and over 3 revisions should cost atleast $3,000-$5,000 nothing less unless you're a beginner or don't need the money

Thank you for your honesty brother. My plan is to shoot music videos just to grow my gear set. I appreciate you for letting me know what I'm going to be looking at though. Opens the door for some candid conversations out the gate about expectations on both sides.