Ugh, hot turds in a bucket you're right. Not sure what happened to that distortion + schematic there. I've updated it. I've also made the schematics public, so feel free to check it out: www.circuitlab.com/circuit/jz7s3vzd2kbp/mxr-distortion-schematic/ and www.circuitlab.com/circuit/a2nhd4b9zzt8/dod-od250-schematic/
Love the A-B comparison. One thing I noticed, especially for me, is how much difference the guitar you are using makes. I have an MXR, and it's not near as brassy with the highs with my humbucker loaded guitars. I've used other distortion pedals and can't seem to get enough highs. P90's seem to float in the middle but my tele and 59 strat copy, both do get kind of chimey. So much good info from you that helps us all shape our sound. Thanks.
Great video. And it reminds me how much I wish people would stop making content about how OD/distortion pedals made in the 70s/early 80s "suck." They were designed to mesh with the natural distortion of an amp, not to be played through clean "pedal platforms," today's prevailing method. It was a different era -- context matters! Thanks a mil.
I have two vintage Distortion+ Pedals. One is from 1980 and has no LED and no external Jack for DC supply. The other one is from 1981 and has LED and a DC Jack. They sound significantly different, the one without LED is more smooth and creamy, while the second one with the LED and the Jack sounds more harsh. IMO this would be an interesting topic to discuss because e.g. the Big Muffs originally also came without LEDs. The second thing is that hardclippers always sound better when they run in front of an already overdriven tube amp. E.g. the Bos DS-1 and the ProCo Rat. Thank you very much for your interesting videos!
Pretty timely video as I just got the JHS Overdrive Preamp a week ago. I love it right in the front of my chain in the switch up position with gain around 2oclock. Sets a nice dynamic tone that gets gritty when digging in hard to a clean Super Reverb. However what I love is what it does to my down chain pedals like the Browne Protein and especially the Rat. This into the rat is a glorious tone through the 4x10!
I used the MXR Distoriton + back in the mid 70's and always found it a bit too thin and fizzy, A really underrated MXR pedal however is the Distortion III, less fizzy.less thin, less raspy, tighter and more modern sounding but still in classic rock territory, not scooped chug metal. Its up there with the best boutique distortion pedals in my opinion, but at a fraction of the price, and it works very well into a clean Fender style amp and makes it believe it's a dimed Marshall.
Buddy bought me an MXR Limited Edition Distortion + for Christmas one year and it sounds absolutely awesome and like Brian said; it doesn't get enough love.
Back in the 70s when these circuits were first developed and sold, there weren't high gain amps to be had. You couldn't buy a Diesel or an EVH, or a Triple Rectifier or anything like that, so guitarists were using these pedals to get more gain from their amps. With that in mind, it is likely that they were intended to be in front of a distorted amp to get more distortion. You are demonstrating that when using the pedals how they were designed to be used, they sound better. To my ear, they sound way better.
Great video! I have DOD's first "comeback version" from a few years ago (Josh called it the V 10) and I love it. My amps (AC30 or PRS HDRX 20) are always on crunch, and this pedal is always on six and six. It's a perfect "lead channel" pedal on these amps, a little fattening but mostly "your amp on 15" sound. I think a tiny bit of highs reduction is normally a good idea for soloing anyway. Thanks to you I may have to get this JHS now!
To my ears, both pedals sound better into a clean amp, but that's simply a function of the kind of OD tones I prefer. I recently acquired a used Fender Bassbreaker 30/18, which at about 9 o'clock on the 30 Watt channel is very loud. The amp can get so loud in fact, that it needs to have the bass control dialed back as volume is increased. That 9 o'clock volume is about right for jamming and gigging (in a small room, unmic'ed). At the same time I bought the amp, I also got a used TC Electronics MojoMojo, which has turned out to be just a _killer_ OD/distortion. It has really responsive EQ controls and can provide quite a bit of gain, if needed. I use it almost exclusively for my driven rhythm tone. In order to take things to the next level for a solo or heavier moments, I've placed an EHX LPB1 _before_ it in the chain, which provides a thick, singing, percussive tone that is saturated just enough, and only provides what I'd call and "apparent" volume boost. This comment may not be completely relevant to the video, but I like your channel, and I want to share a story of great tone.
Nice to see some attention to the Distortion Plus. Unfortunately I could hear in your video the same thing that I heard in the new LED version, some high nasty grit that wasn't in my pedal I've had from the mid 70's. I had purchased one of the LED version for a backup small pedal board that I was building up. It's that same grit that I heard in your video. Checked all the part values for both and they were the same values! I finally isolated it to the capacitors. The new ones have polypropylene caps, which I normally associated with better frequency response. My old one had all ceramic disc capacitors, which are usually known for not doing well in high quality audio circuits. Replaced the caps in the LED version with the ceramic caps and now my new LED version sounded like my 70's version. Another setup to try is to set it up for a good crunchy tone and put a Dyna Comp in front, to push it into a full distortion mode.
Great info. Love the SPICE demo, first time I have seen that. Very cool. I need to check that out. Thanks for the suggestions on the circuit. My breadboard just got its next project.
I have an '81 250 I've had for ~30 years. The way I Iike to use it is as basically a clean boost. I changed the input cap to the fat sounding .01 and removed the output cap for even more brightness (I love that). I turn the output pretty much all the way up, and then use the distortion control as if it were a volume control. And use it to overdrive the front end of the amp. A sound like nothing else. BE-A-U-TIFUL!
D+ reissue, volume maxed and gain set so the lines are about parallel, into a dimed Dual Showman Reverb has been my jam as long as I’ve been playing in bands. People love to hate on these pedals, but it’s because they just are not made for bedroom volumes; used right, there’s nothing quite like it for that raspy, mean grind.
Interesting! The JHS sounds a little more 'open' to me. I still have my Distortion+ from the 70's. Recently drilled a hole in the side so I can run it off the mains - no more battery changing! I haven't relied on for ages - I bought a Paul Crowther Hotcake back in NZ for live work and recently he sent me the Double Hotcake, BUT, I actually like the MXR with less tops for a sort of 'early Frippish' sound with a bit of delay . . . it has a warmth to it that is quite unique. Thanks for the comparison.
1) The "weakness" of both the Dist+ and DOD250 are that they roll off bass as gain is increased. Not so much roll off bass, as much as apply more gain to mids and highs than lower frequency content. When gain is at minimum, the full spectrum gets a bit of a boost (roughly gain of 3x). At max gain, both units apply that gain to content above roughly 720hz, not unlike a Tube Screamer. If one wants a little more "thrust" a common mod is to up the value of the capacitor in series with the gain control from .047uf to .1uf or even .22uf will keep more bass as gain is turned up. 2) Early issue Dist+ units used too low a volume pot value, often using 10k. This reduced the maximum output level, such that one had to dime the volume when gain was at anything less than max in order to get any audible volume boost. DOD smartly went with a more appropriate volume pot value of 100k, which is acknowledged as a much better value to use with a Dist+. Makes medium and lower-gain settings still loud enough to push an amp. 3) The Dist+ used germanium clipping diodes while the 250 used silicon diodes. Silicon provides for a greater maximum output level with a bit less clipping (though still more than enough). I would imagine the switch on the JHS pedal selects between the two types of diode. 4) Very few amps sound great when pushed into breakup with an input signal already high in harmonic content. Neither the Dist+ or the 250 do very much to trim back the high frequencies when they are used to push an amp into clipping. I mean, you *can* simply turn the treble down on the amp, but a more usable solution is to trim the treble back on the pedal such that what it does to the amp is more palatable, and also sidesteps the need to turn the amp treble down. To do this, locate the .001uf cap that's in parallel with the clipping diodes, and solder in a .0022uf-.0033uf cap in parallel with the existing .001uf. You'll still get plenty of bite, but the frizz will be moved to the background, and your amp will sound nicer. 5)In many respects, Brian, you're using both of these drive pedals the way one is *supposed* to use a Klon Centaur.
I have a 2 channel amp and keep one channel clean, the other one with a nice bit of overdrive, but not completely overdriven. With gain pedals this allows me to have up to 4 different tones, and then if I do fuzz or distortion, then even more.
Regarding Fractal modelers, slamming them with drive pedals actually sounds great! They're super over-engineered with the input design so you can still use boost pedals the same way you would with a real amp without any digital clipping problems.
I have a script-logo Dist+. There’s a pretty significant volume drop across most of its settings range. For me, the sweet spot is to max the output and then turn up the distortion until you get unity on/off loudness (about 1:30ish on mine). It’s definitely NOT a pedal that has very many useable flavors. But I do like that one setting enough to use it regularly.
That is how I understood the MXR Dist+ was designed to be used, I'm 66. It's how I still use it. The first time I discovered that I heard a D+, was on this track from 1976. ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-00fxcGPtfBQ.html It's Ed Kuepper on The Saints "No Time", B side on the I'm Stranded Fatal Records Single (while I'm Stranded got the glory, I preferred No Time). That is an SG through a cranked Twin Reverb and his Script Dist+ on this recording. Back then Ed played live through a solid state EDA PA amp with the Dist+. They were blistering and like no one else back then.
I’m wondering if you could just substitute the 100k level pot with a 10k instead to drop the output impedance. Would that have a negative effect on the circuit as a whole?
ln the 70's l had the cursive script dist+ and 180 watt rms Fender Super Twin Reverb. l used a Sunn 4 ohm 4x12 cab. That amp sounded better than the JMPs of the day and had so much headroom at loud volume it made the amp sound huge. Ironically l love the JMPs today. The DOD clone pedal sounds like every other pedal l hear today IMHO. WAAAAAYYYY too much midrange drive. Guitar tone has lost a lot of its depth by trying to splatter thru mixes with low wattage high gain amps that drive the middle. Great guitar tone like Gilmour's and Pages live tone doesnt rely on middle to cut thru a mix. l used to think randy rhodes sounded horrible. Now its like everyone uses that midrange excessive tone.
I really like the Distortion + in general so I was pretty bummed when I bought one and my Boogie Mark IV really didn't like it, either clean or boosted. I guess because of its mid-push, and Boogies are already so full of mids as it is. Maybe? Any thoughts?
I’ve had a Mesa DC5 combo for 25 years, and I also had a Single Rec head for several years. Both were finicky with drive pedals for me. I ended up preferring a Boss Blues Driver for both. I still have the DC5, and am currently happy with most TS style and Klon style drives in it. I’ll eventually get another BD2 to test if my taste and ears have changed. I’m a classic rock guy if that needs mentioned. I don’t know if it’s specifically a midrange thing. The TS has a mid bump, but if I understand correctly, also has a low shelf/cut and maybe that keeps the bottom from getting mushy.
@@teacuppermike2568 Pedals aren’t the issue, in fact it’s an excellent pedal platform. It just doesn’t like the Distortion +, there’s something about its character that clashes with the Mark IV. It’s not like it needs to be boosted anyways, it already has that quality if you want it. Not interested in other drive pedals but thanks!
I bought a Distortion+ years ago, it was used for $25, so I thought why not? I have to say; it was literally hands down the worst sounding dirt pedal I've ever heard, and I'm using "literally" literally. It was harsh, muffled and had no real output. I couldn't even use it as a boost because as soon I dialed the gain down, the volume and high end rolled off. I tried different pot values, changing the clipping section and tweaking the EQ, with no success. I gave it to a kid who had just started getting into pedals, I think he had like two or three, and he gave it back to me because he never used it. It spent the next couple years being raped for parts, and I eventually used the enclosure for another pedal. I know Randy Rhodes used one, and I'm convinced he used it for the studio version of Crazy Train. That song really puts the lie to the "tone is all in the fingers," philosophy (not really, but…). It's one of the best riffs in rock, by one of the best rock guitarist ever and his playing is great, but the guitar sound…😖. The only way I could describe it to someone who's never heard is to imagine taking a Plexi head that you used to load box and instead of a 4X12 cabinet, you ran it through the built in speaker from a late-90's Gateway laptop. It's boxy, muffled and muddled; just God awful.
I started out with an MXR Distortion+! Back in the late 70's. The Distortion+ and the Big Muff were really the biggest names in town back then, it was not like the ridiculous number of effects pedals we have today. I used the MXR for many years and I'm surprised that no one talks about it anymore.
Even in the late 70’s, there were many different pedals. There just wasn’t any way for folks to easily know what all was out there, and who used what. There were already what, at least 6 different Muffs by 78’? That’s just one company, and just one pedal they kept tweaking for different artists. I mean Gilmour was using, compressors, a drive pedal(or two), a muff, a phaser or univibe, a flanger, and then an Echorec and Leslie speaker, by Animals. That’s seven different effects he was using. The biggest difference is small builders just had little chance of making a living building pedals, unless they were making them for an artist.
I think what a lot of people forget is when the DOD 250 and MXR Dist+ came out, nobody gave a flying monkey about stage volume, they were designed to be for gigging musicians who would happily crank their amps, people trying to re-purpose them today as "preamp in a box" type distortion pedals will be sorely disappointed. I love these old classics 250, Dist +, DS1, SD1, TS808, TS9 etc to be used on top of an already LOUD and dirty amp, they absolutely rock in that context and I'm 100% certain that's how they're designed to be used.
My first pedal was the Ross Distortion. I still have it in tan. I got into the DOD 250 when I was into Yngwie and have his YJM308. That led me to DIY my first pedal I call the Neo-Classic 741 Overdrive which is based on the 1979-1980 grey 250 circuit. It’s still my go to pedal. I also have a box logo MXR Distortion+ that I made a replica PCB repair because the guy who gave it to me had fried it bypassing the battery. Need to find a new enclosed stereo input jack for it.
Been using both for years. I use mine as a lead boost. Level full up and dist rolled in until I get the desired saturation I'm looking for. Love 'em both used this way. Great vid. Cheers!
Randy Rhoads famously used the Distortion Plus exclusively and he only used it through an already dirty amp which is the only way I'd even remotely use it. Couple that pedal with an EQ pedal and it's magic. Great info in this vid!
In the 1970s and early 1980s I had a Ross Distortion, which I understand was a clone of an MXR D+, fed into a Twin Reverb and it sounded great. It was an early one in an MXR-style enclosure. Probably would have been worth a little money today, but it's been lost for decades.
anxiously awaiting the MXR Randy Rhoads edition of the Distortion Plus, they recently analyzed his pedalboard with his sister's permission and (reading between the lines) it seems they found some special mod that was unique to his pedal
Agree 100% with the philosophy of use here...Neither is great on front of a clean amp. However, the MXR dist+ or OD250 in front of an already overdriven Marshall Plexi or JCM800 is the classic EARLY 80's Heavy Metal sound as in Dio, Iron Maiden, Ozzy, Quiet Riot, Yngwie, etc.. 1980-1984 era. Once I tried these pedals out I had a realization that a lot of what I've always assumed was the amps power section blitzed or a modded amp was probably just one of these in front of a stock Marshall on a lot of those recordings. I use each on occasion with a JCM800, running the level 100% and the distortion on 40-50%. The Marshall providing maybe 80% of the clipping and the pedal just adding more hair and sag, bordering on fuzz-like with a flubbier bottom than a tube screamer which is cleaner and tighter. The OD250 definitely sounds warmer pushing more low mids through the amp and the MXR is brighter. Noise gates help with these as well, they are inherently hissy.
I used a Deluxe reverb for 15 years in my heavy club days. Great pedal amp for me. I had and MXR D+ but scrapped it and bought the rat when it came out. Still have the rat. Played everything through that amp from country, to Judas Priest and it worked just fine.
I will never understand the draw of a modeling amp. Probably because I have tube amps and the idea of using something that tries and fails to capture what makes them great isn’t a good one.
😁It wasn't intentional, but I don't use digital modeling amps unless I can't bring or use a tube amp. No slight against them really, I just like tube amps 🙂
I think the real question here, is when do we get the Wampler version of the OD250? Double stacked like the Pelican Noise Works? Would be cool to see and hear your take on the circuit, if you were to build one!
I see this video.... then I seen that Instagram post... Brian... are you about to put out a 250 with a full active E.Q???!!? Is that what you're about to do? I need it if that's the case... oh my God... you are aren't you.
LOVE the 250. Super versatile in what it can do depending on how you set it. I like it for basically a harmonic boost on my heavy rhythm tone. Gain most or all the way down, and the output up towards full, and back off the amps gain. It gets really tight and compressed but is pretty saturated still, so it records heavy guitars REALLY well and isn’t all messy sounding like a TS
Finally, someone shows what these pedals were really designed to do best. It drives me crazy when people always demo them into a clean amp. They don't sound very good in that setting. But slam the front end of a dirty Marshall with these pedals, and you are in sonic heaven!
The DOD 250 uses a 100K output volume pot which is High impedance output compared to the MXR Distortion+ which uses a 50K output volume pot which is considered Low Impedance. Most tube amplifiers would PREFER the 100K output pot high impedance because its more like a guitars pickups plugging direct into the amplifiers input. A major different is C12 is rolling off the high frequencies and cut off point the DOD 250 uses a 4.7uf compared to the MXR distortion+ uses a 1uf. This is going to change the cut off point and roll of high frequencies at different SHIFT POINTS. The older 70s 741 have a different SLEW RATE specs compared to the newer 741 slew rate specs. You didn't mention anything about the Slew Rate specs because this is what type of distortion characteristics is slew rate distortion.
I love your work Brian! It is confusing to me that in nearly all of the coverage of the current 250 clones there is an overt avoidance of the most influenatial use case: Yngwie. Josh sort of addressed it in a very dismissive way during the launch of his pedal. If there’s any confusion about how to use the 250 just listen to Yngwie with Alcatrazz and his first three solo albums. That’s it. That’s what the pedal is for. Strat with noiseless pickups > DOD 250 cranked > Marshall Super Lead.
@@teacuppermike2568 I also noticed on this thread there are folks pointing out Randy having used the Distortion +, and again, I don’t see much discussion of that use case either.
I’ve got the brown DOD Yngwie edition of the 250 pedal, and it sounds great. Sweetwater blew them out them for only $19. I wish I purchased 100 because I could have made a lot of money selling them off slowly.
Hey, Brian, I've never been able to find a schematic for confirmation, but I've been told that the Distortion+ and the 250 are so similar because they're both based on the Dan Armstrong Blue Clipper, which was the overdrive in the famous jack-plug line with the Green Ringer, Orange Squeezer, et al.
Thanks Brian, I love your in-depth videos! This is such great information and you have a beautiful way of explaining it. I wish I'd known this 40 years ago when I had a Deluxe Reverb and a D+ that I built with the help of my guitar teacher, who had the schematic. But boy are those DRs loud when you turn them up!
For what it's worth my AxeFx II XL+ makes for a very good pedal platform. Yeah you don't wan to slam the front input with volume, but if you set it just under clipping the input, you can boost the signal internally with an input gain trim setting. These probably would sound excellent through and AxeFX, but I've never owned and Distortion + or 250
I love my DOD250! I use it at the end of my effects chain to add a little grit to my signal and it really tames some fuzz pedals and makes them sound much heftier!
Absolutely love my Dist+. It's perfect into my overdriven Laney SuperTop. Gain on 9 o'clock or more, level on 9 o'clock, up or down a little bit acting as tone. I'd certainly wouldn't use it with a Tele into Fender amp, but that's me. I agree it's a misunderstood and misused pedal. Like most classic circuits, it sounds much better into overdriven amps. The idea of "clean platform amp", in my opinion, only works in very specific contexts and yet it's the mainstream approach among pedalnerds.
I love the Distortion +, it's like a secret weapon for 70's Judas Priest and Blue Öyster Cult. Even the modern one but I should really have bought the germanium one when it was briefly reissued. I feel like it sounds best before a driven Marshall and with pickups that don't have too much output. It gets really compressed if you use it with hot pickups but that can be a good thing for the priest tones. It's also great for Doom Metal because it can get quite fuzzy and fat without getting too fuzzy. Increasing the gain control seems to add high end and increasing the volume seems to add low end, these pedals really are kinda unique in their behaviour.
