Are you qualified as an electrician? 

I have the same certificates as you and have been a commercial sparky for 18 years...personally I think the best qualification you can get is on site experience!! 👍🏻

My personal take on this is that you are a qualified electrician. You have electrical qualifications, you work as an electrician, you are presumably competent in the range of work you do. This, I believe, meets the dictionary definition. Certain industry bodies may not accept your qualifications for certain types of work, but who gives a toss? So long as you know you're doing a good job and your clients are happy, crack on I say. And never forget that someone can have all the qualifications in the world and still be shite.

Industry is a joke, things move on all the time, I know guys who have no qualifications and are more competent than people who have certificates coming out their arses

God bless you mate. Not many would of made a video like this. I wish you all the best.

You are very brave for speaking up! The very same thing happened to me, I am older, did my C&G in 1989-1993. I did part 1,2,3 and testing course and NVQ but went I went to renew my registration one day they said sorry the rules have changed. I was not an occasional electrician, I worked six days a week most weeks for 32 years, being an NIE-EIC QM and Reci contractor. All my work was high end, schools, museums, very luxurious domestic all the way. Like yourself I also meticulously trained around a dozen apprentices. So was not happy to settle for a jib or domestic card. I got to keep my registration in the end but really had to fight for it. I do have to say to I do not blame the colleges, as the courses were very well taught and all the knowledge comes flooding back any time you do any update course. Experience is everything and you will sail through this bull.

Further education is just another business now... it's all about the money.

I’m in the exact same boat! I have been a spark for 15 years and also have my own business, I have all my qualifications up to level 3 and I have done my am2. But because I done my course in the evenings and not as an apprentice I have now been told I need to do a portfolio costing £1200+ to continue being a spark and renewing my niceic (which I’ve been with since I can remember) I feel like I’m back to square 1! I hope the best for you bud and keep us all updated!

Good on you for your honesty, integrity and work ethic. Just about to move into the industry and it is a mine field!

I ended up with the same certificates without a final one stating I was an electrician so I admire your cause as the route to becoming an electrician should be made clearer from the start and there should be more transparency from colleges' from the beginning. However, if we were to be challenged in Law we'd refer to the EWR and from what you've said and what's in the regs you're more than qualified and showing continued learning proves that.

I think we all appreciate this video as it’s making many realise that being a sparky is not like other trades. Some have gone though the courses over the years and kissed the books good by thinking we never have to lift a book again. I always say this. Being a sparky is not like HGV driver for example where once’s you have the licence that’s it. No matter how good of a spark you are and no matter what route you took. Due to regulations changing all the time to up keep the safety new study based exams will come in which I’m sure all sparks will have to undertake even the ones that have been connecting wires since 1850’s. It’s part of the game and it’s part of being a spark. It’s not for all but learning the bullshit at times is part of the flow. It’s not fair but it’s what it is. Enjoy and embrace brothers and sisters.

Great video thanks for bringing the attention to it. I am currently doing my level 3 at west lancs college they make us sign a document that confirms we know we will not be electricians and that we need to go on to do our NVQ’s, 18th edition, testing and inspection and finally AM2

I have a similar route to you into the industry. I was made redundant from my job as a class 1 heavy goods driver (14 Years) I went into full time college and passed my nvq2 and Btec courses over 2 years (the second year working onsite plus college. I also passed my 16th edition (now up to 18th) and 2391 test and inspection. I worked my way up through a few jobs and eventually applied for my JIB card. I was told that even though I had my test and inspection, because I didn't have my level 3 I was classed as adult trainee. So I had to get my Level3 city and guilds and apply again after it was complete. After my level 3 I was awarded the grade electrician. I worked my way up in the firm and was eventually assessed by the NICEIC as a Qualified Supervisor. I no longer work for that firm and my QS has lapsed and I am now classified as an Approved Electrician by the JIB. I am currently an Electrical Product Engineer for Legrand so things have worked out OK for me.

Thanks for this video. I was actually on a fast track course 2 years ago. Lead to believe I’d be able to go and get a job off the back of it. I walked away with... -part p domestic installer -building regs for dwellings -18th edition -pat testing -2394/95 and I’m yet to complete my design and verification course. Towards the end of the course I heard whispers of an am2 exam and every job I’ve applied for wanted this in order to get the job but no representative even mentioned it! Since then I’ve started an apprenticeship as a road rail Electrician bought a load of tools gained invaluable experience and am doing a 5 year degree as a part of the apprenticeship. In hindsight I was miss sold. But it did without doubt get the ball rolling for me and secured a good apprenticeship. Something definitely needs to be done about this though I don’t think it’s right. Everything is very unclear to someone looking to get into the industry and there needs a standardised clear route.

Adrian, I did my craft apprenticeship a long time ago, some of us did the craft City and Guilds college, a few of us did the BTec technicians course. None of us did the AM2 trade test. I ended up in project management as a senior project manager and senior technical services manager, member of the IET, APM and CIBSE, no degree or incorporation or chartership, I had a Black and a Gold ECS card. 8 years ago I had a bit of an epiphany and decided to go back to my trade. So from managing multimillion pound projects to man in a van. So with an indentured apprenticeship, up to date BS7671 C&G, Gold Card and a mass of other site management qualifications I still couldn’t register on the Competent Person Scheme to be a domestic installer. So I joined the firemen, ex servicemen, recently made redundant and Eastern European migrant workers at my local TradeSkills4U centre for a couple of weeks to get a C&G in Building Regs, and C&G in Initial Verification and Testing. You could walk in with no experience and 6 weeks later, having passed all the courses, walk out and register on a CPS scheme and call yourself an electrician, or domestic installer. You can buy public liability and professional indemnity insurance for a few hundred quid without showing a single piece of evidence. A few years ago I was approached by my local construction college to do some lecturing, teaching modern apprenticeships - I didn’t need to be a qualified electrician to teach, in fact I didn’t need to be a qualified teacher, but working towards a qualification was encouraged. I’ve just had my annual CPS audit from NAPIT, there is more emphasis on calibration certs and weekly checks, complaints procedures, risk assessments, GDPR policies and health and safety policies than what you can do and if you do it safely. It’s all about ticking boxes. Take a look at the ECS website and see where you fit in, if you’ve got a Level 3 cert in BS7671, and a Level 3 cert in Inspection and Testing with your Level 3 electrical technology certs and experience, I’d employ you as an electrician, and I’m sure you would get a Gold card as a JIB approved electrician. Remarkably, to work on domestic you can have a lower standard of qualification than industrial, but have to jump through more hoops. Chin up - you’re an electrician.

I’m in exactly the same boat mate. Literally had my profiling session yesterday for my NVQ 2346 experienced route. Fingers crossed should have it wrapped up in 6 months or so !

Personally in a Plumber by trade, this video had me checking all of my City & Guilds qualifications. Thanks for sharing awareness!

I have first hand experience of this, I know exactly what you are going through, I went to Chichester college around 2006, I did 3 years and came out with a C&G 2330. As far as I was concerned I was qualified. like you said, I was not told about the AM2 or the NVQ 3 portfolio. After I finished my 2330 I did the 2394 & 2395. It was then I found out I was not “qualified” I went to apply for my JIB Gold card and was told I could not have one, and I was given a trainee card. I ended up going back and doing my C&G 2357 NVQ 3 and AM2. It was expensive around £2500. I totally feel for you and know what you are going through. I personally think there are too many way in to our industry and it needs to be simplified.

I started off on the City and Guilds route then I was lucky to get an apprenticeship so got put on the NVQ route.To be on the NVQ route you had to have an apprenticeship with permanent on site experience.This would then allow you to complete a portfolio alongside it,because you were working on site and with photographs, could back up the points in which you had to fulfill.City and Guilds level 1,2 and 3 was aimed at people who were currently unemployed or looking to retrain part time in order to get a foothold in the industry.The Am2 was aimed at apprenticeships and this was the last piece of the jigsaw they had to pass to be able to qualify.The City and guilds route,you wouldn't have enough experience to pass the Am2. If you have 20 years experience in the industry thats massive,you shouldn't need to redo certain topics from back in the day.As far as I'm concerned with the 2391 running alongside what you have already, you are as qualified and experienced as the rest of us.

Really good video thanks for making it. I've seen all sides from the highly skilled with no tickets through to apprenticeship qualified but can barely wire a plug. The whole industry is a mess. There is a shortage of electricians and a rapid move towards electrical technologies in our society. But they'll never get anywhere unless this gets sorted out. I am nearly qualified via the apprenticeship route but I think I am less clear now than when I started about how the quals further quals, exams and requirements work. And there always just seems to be one more ticket with one more fee before u actually get there. No surprise. The industry needs more people like u.👍

Excellent video and very brave. This really got my interest as I'm considering a career change after 40 years working. I've looked at what course(s) I'd need to qualify and I agree, it's as clear as mud. Definitely going to be following this. Thank you, good luck and stay safe.

As has been said already, well done for publicly raising this issue. You’re certainly not alone. I’m (ahem) a little older, and the injustice of crooked training providers is not new to me or many people my age. Back in the day, any chancer could offer a YTS course, take the government’s money and make any promises they liked. I was one of those young people, genuinely and sincerely undertaking what I believed was an apprenticeship, only to end up with some City & Guilds certificates and a load of worthless paperwork. I persevered and, many years later, gained some of the right paperwork. But there’s no recourse, these institutions packed up as soon as they could start up something else under another name. I’ve visited some establishments in recent years pulling the same trick, churning out ‘Domestic Installers’, with no understanding of installation methods past or present. The majority of these ‘trainees’ are mature students, many on resettlement from the forces, who can’t afford to live on an apprenticeship wage for 2-4yrs. They’re all sold the dream of “re-training” and becoming an electrician, like it’s the same as packing boxes or delivering Amazon packages. It’s a complete lie to tell anyone they can become a qualified electrician in 5 weeks, but legally, holding a BS7671 certificate and a Part P certificate, is all you need to work on domestic electrics. It’s UK law that’s at fault, and until Government listens to educated advice rather than lobbyists and the IET gets out of bed with manufacturers, we’ll get nowhere.

I’m probably what you would call a 14 day wonder course domestic installer. I’m on the NICEIC DI scam/scheme. I did an apprenticeship in telecoms and electronics back in the 80’s, then as a career change did the Niceic Domestic installer course about 2006. I’ve done the 16/17/18 edition multi guess quizzes and passed (100% in all 3 as it happens but how hard can it be you can take the book with all the answers into the exam) . Am I a qualified electrician? No. Am I competent ? Yes I believe so. Do I do an above average standard of work ? Judging by the shite I come across and upgrade/replace -yes. Do I understand why there seems to be an overly complex number of entry/exams/whatever -no. Anyway I’m a 14 say wonder I’ll let you qualified boys educate me ! Edit... would I bother going to college to take x or y module or any other form filling exercise ? No. But I do think the young lads or older lads embarking on a career in our industry have a clear and unambiguous path to gaining “qualification” excellent vid by the way.

You explain it very well and bring up some important issues. I went on a apprenticeship back in 1975 and it was the city & guilds A course 3 years, then the city & guilds B course 2 years, then i went on to the city & guilds C course 2 years. Today its all over the place and very confusing and messy!! And sadly all about making money!! I have just retired, thank goodness.

This is a good video. Using my electrical qualifications I find myself in a similar position. I was assessed as a QS for an multitrade engineering company a few years ago. The assessor accepted my qualifications and told me that due to the time that I "passed" in 2004 I did not need the AM2 as it was taken away and then reinstated at a later date after I had achieved my qualification. My experience with "qualified" status is the regulations from the IET are very vague to say it at best. The regulations are underwritten from the Electricity at Work act and as we know non-statory document of the BS 7671 is a standard so I does not make reference to a qualified status. The case of "qualified" is a very confused subject.

Got this video randomly recommended by youtube. I'm in similar shoes I done my 2330 lvl 2&3 back in 2012 it's was apprenticeship, recently done 18th edition and was planning do inspection and testing courses after that everything else after that seems absurd. Due to all this this I decided to switch to Electrical engineering on machinery instead of trade. But thank you for a video It's good that someone spoke about this bs.

I did an apprenticeship - NVQ3 in electrical installations and then Testing & Inspection and AM2. All went well and I “think” I can say I’m a “fully qualified electrician” Thanks for sharing your story, I’m sure you’re not the only one.

I finished my apprenticeship (Industrial Maintenance Electrician) with my NVQ Level 3 and a HNC in General engineering, however I wasn't put on any regulations courses, no inspection and testing course or AM1 or 2. I too had no mention of these during my time at college, I went out of my own way to complete the 18th and inspection and testing.

I followed the same route you did at the same time (different college). We were told the AM2 was only for the kids doing day release and it didn't apply to adult learners. On my course we had plenty of working sparks who were there just to get some paperwork to keep their employers happy. I never had a problem getting a job as an electrician with my qualifications.

Good man, it’s crazy there is not an easy to understand, clear and defined route to being qualified without room for misinterpretation or exploitation of students

Agree 100% with you. I had an apprentice from the same college you attended, they completed their NVQ Level 3 in under a week staging photos in their own home. At that point, on paper they were more qualified than myself yet could not understand the most basic of wiring systems. There needs to be a clear path to become a qualified electrician, alas that being said, you can still be qualified on paper yet not in my eyes be a competent electrician without actual experience.

Great video Adrian really appreciate it...I jave completed my C&G Level 2&3 2365 in Electrical Installation, 18th Edition aswell. I never believed I was a qualified Electrician after doing these courses it was alway about making money for the colleges and the lectures were just salesmen selling you hope. I do not have much practical experience but did pretty well on the course. I hope to do my portfolio and AM2 but I am only currently working in a maintenance role, so not sure what to do.

Well said Adrian. Like you I went to college through my own accord to help get a job as an electrician. Soon after I started a job as a domestic installer. This was with a person who had done the same as you level 2 and level 3. When I completed my level 3 I left for a bigger company to find out which road I wanted to go down as an electrician. This was a industrial company which done installation/maintenance in process plants. Once again no problem no mention. 3 years ago I applied for a job in mining looking for some excitement. This is were I found out that I haven't completed my NVQ or done my AM2. The agreement of employment was that I would become an experienced apprentice and complete both the NVQ and AM2. This was a shock at first but a no brainer as they were willing to pay the fees and give me a decent wage but still not a qualified wage. It took me 2 years to complete the NVQ with portfolio which I found a waste of time. The assessor was useless as what I was doing was not something he had knowledge in, my job in mining been not very common. I completed the AM2 last year but had to go back and do more as they had left a unit out "no kidding " I have not got a gold card or do I have 18th edition as mining has its own regs. I found the whole ordeal very confusing and hard to find information. I know less sparks who did there NVQ and AM2 then didn't. Brilliant competent sparks much better then myself. You are the first person I know to actually question the system. Well done. How did you check to find out you had not got the right credentials?

So, I completed an apprenticeship back in the 80s under the EITB - whilst I'm no longer working as an electrician I've always kept my JIB card up to date and consequently had to keep certs up to date - wiring regs, test and inspection - surely that's just continual professional development. I do understand your perspective and agree that you should have been provided with all necessary training and exam modules, but surely we're each responsible for ensuring that our certs meet current requirements?

I've been a sparky since 1976 and I am not recognised as a sparky anymore because my qualifications are so outdated. I'm not going ba k to school now. I'd rather retire. Every year, theres more leaning on academics than practical skills and experience. I can do anything with conduit, pyro, traywork etc. All fault finding and repairs. Electronics, audio, almost anything, yet I'm not recognised anymore? I came out of my time at 21, not 18. The money in this game goes less every year, almost in line with say. A taxi driver or window cleaner, or almost any job. It's not worth the hassle any more. I'm going to throw the towel in. Good luck mate. I hope you find what you're looking for.

Totally on your side with this, have my level 2 & 3 (with final certs) at the same time I did 2377 (Pat), Regs (16th as it was then, have done 17th and 18th since), NVQ3, I also did my 2391 Inspection and testing all within 2.5yrs on day release (1 day a week at college and work in the industry the rest). At the time I was an adult trainee, started age 26. However I now told I cant have a JIB card because I have no AM2. Even though I've held one in the past. I was told when at college I could either do NVQ or AM2 to finish my training, I choose the NVQ 3. I'm now 45 and work as an estimator, having worked as a Qualified Supervisor for many years. Yet someone can do a 5 week wonder course and be classed as qualified. The industry needs to stop moving the goal posts, regs aren't retrospective but qualification are? give me a break. I'm not doing an AM2 as no longer work on the practice side and also have dodgy shoulders from years of pulling cable in.

Hey Adrian, A great video. Myself I hold the City and Guilds level 2 and 3 2330 which I did at college whilst working alongside sparks in a construction firm. Went on to do the 17th edition. Eventually went on to do the City and Guilds 2377-22/32 inspecting and testing of electrical equipment and management (saw them as extra tickets to have) The EAL 4337/4338 intial verification and periodic inspecting and testing. The firm I was working with at the time tendered for a local council contract and the council at the time requested all electricians working on their houses must must hold the City and Guilds 2393 (Part P) so I got put through that and then more recently the 18th edition. But before the 18th I was working in the electrical industry as an electrician working in the Domestic, Commerical and Industrial sectors for over 10 years. Like yourself however I am also having to do the AM2 this year and my portfolio for the NVQ if I wish to get a Gold Card...... I know people who have done the NVQs and some of them all they did was get someone to take pictures of them literally posing with whatever material they needed to tick off that they had worked with ( tray and containment, SWA etc

I couldn’t afford to go to college and work at the same time. So I did the domestic installers package at a builder training centre that includes the 18th edition and 2391 level 2. I was told I could now go an be a mate. I also went and got an ECS labourers card which I needed the 18th for. Turns out the 3 days I spent in class going over mock test papers and learning how to find the regs in the book that I would need for the open book exam, didn’t actually mean that I knew any of the regs. Now I’m struggling to get work as a mate due to my inexperience and lack of knowledge and I think it’s criminal that I’ve got a city and guilds qualification in something in know absolutely nothing about for a job that is so dangerous. I agree with you. Why is there no set route with multiple ways for doing it. Full time, evening, weekends, etc. there are companies out there charging £8k and telling students their qualified enough to work, and they simply aren’t. It’s outrageous.

I’m just doing my evening classes in electrical installations level 2 at the moment and didn’t find out till afterwards that I had to do the Am2 as well. I thought it was just level 2, then level 3 and I’m fully qualified. Im still gonna go ahead with it, but even when trawling through the city and guilds website, it’s hard to find a definitive answer on what EXACTLY the qualification route is to be considered as fully qualified. I also think that employers don’t understand what it means to be fully qualified either. As lots of them will just state either ‘ 17th or 18th edition electrician ‘ or ‘ qualified in electrical installations ‘ .... Top bloke

Hello Sir hope to see you back here. I have learnt a lot from you. Take care

I'm currently on my L3 8202 (did L2 2365 last year). My take is simple; I wasn't going to consider myself as a qualified electrician until I get my gold card. I didn't know of the 5357 electrotechnical apprenticeship, and I doubt at 32 (and disabled) any would have taken me. My plan is/was 2365 L2 (and L3 - L3 instead was the 8202-30 as gov pulled the funding for 2365 @ L3), from those "baseline" (my wording) qualifications, I was going to go on to the 2391 (either as 2391 and 2392 seperately or the combined -52 course (but preferably taking seperate, purely due to experience being a prerequisite for the combined), from the I&T qualification then onto 2377 for PAT testing and likely onto the 2919 for EV then, and only then wasi going to look at the NVQ/AM2. It was made clear to us when we started the L2 2365 that doing that course and the L3 course would not make you a qualified electrician, if you wanted to try and pass off as one, that was on you. What we've not had yet (on the L3 8202) is any mention of the NVQ or AM2 so I'll wait to hear if anything is said, although knowing my college, unlikely (given we weren't told of the 2365 funding being pulled for the 2365 by gov - but that's another comment)

Totally agree. I’m doing mine already 3 years got my Level 3 still missing the AM2 but as I know even with AM2 you can’t get ECS gold card. Also even with my certifications NVQ level 3 with 2391 inspection and testing couldn’t find a job. Most places they want ECS gold card

This hits home with the situation I'm currently in. I did my apprenticeship nearly 20 years ago but didn't complete the final year and have been working in a company as the main electrician on site alongside an NIC QS for 15 years being responsible for training apprentices etc. I rescently applied to do my 2346 (experienced worker route) only to be rejected due to TESP changing the requirements in Sept 2023 to make my previous qualifications redundant. I'm now having to start from scratch with 20 years experience!

Thanks Adrian as ever for an honest informative video... My comments come from the background of an eternal student who has a teaching background and done many courses electrical/construction and non construction.... I have sat in many classes and even after 15 years of courses and experience as a multi skilled i can say I have good handskills and knowledge but I don't actually feel qualified at anything.... problems I've seen from a teaching point of view 1. City and guilds courses became less and less practical, more and more theory and health and safety, that were not really applicable to site work 2. The loss of genuine apprenticeships, 90% of people on the courses had no apprenticeship, doing the course meant they couldn't work. The way you describe doing night courses (I did the 2330 that way) seems to have ended 3. Teaching in construction, for a number of reasons not the greatest. Teachers many years off site, and low moral in further education establishments, lads onsite not really wanting to pass on their knowledge/skills, at worst undermining the learners confidence. 4. Finally the am2, and niciec registration maybe raising standards but it's also providing social blocks to people being able to be electricians. The non academic person, the finance needed if not with a supportive apprenticeship..... very difficult as I have found.... I have no easy answers, old school training, old apprenticeships (I met these lads from the 60s/70s apprenticeships) if you could physically/mentally survive them...their knowledge and skill level with a lifetime of work behind them was/is second to none....if I lived 3 lifetimes I could never match them...... Just my experiences/thoughts hope this adds to the discussion....

This just from the JIB handbook which is constantly changing, when I became an electrician back in the 80's all you needed was 236-1&2 nothing else.

Had a very similar experience . I did the city and guilds 2330 . I was told when I started that once I had finished my 3.5 years of night school that I would be qualified. I did the am2 and passed and thought it was all done. Then on the handshake day I was told that I had to do my nvq (oh and did we mention we have a company that does this for 2k) . I put myself through this but it left a bitter taste in my mouth .

So pleased it's not just me! I did the 2330 Level 2 and 3 course around 2005. Did my 2391, Regs etc. Registered with Elecsa, self employed , successful business. I then had the opportunity to instruct part time at my local colleges electrical department. Long story short, I spent 15 years there teaching Level 3 apprentices. I've now left teaching and gone to restart my business. I went to re-register, but industry no longer accepts the 2330 course. I've just had to compete the experienced worker NVQ. Next step is AM2E! Couldn't believe it

Very similar thing happened to me I went the apprenticeship route in 2004, went to get my gold card couple years ago I could only get a trainee electrical card. Done the 2360 with AM2 and 16th edition at the time and I’m a fully approved NICEIC member. When I looked into it my portfolio was missing and I never had my certificate for the AM2. Found out couple week back when I seen a lad from collage he had the same issue 😩

I started my apprentership in 1968 went to college for 4 years, got my approved ticket in 73, 14 th ed of the regs, I took the new regs exams up to the 16th, worked for verious contractors as a subby mostly industrial untill my ECS gold card could not be renewed until I had taken the 18th ed ! that was when I had had enough of all these regs and at that age of 65 gave up being a sparky and will only do repairs and odd jobs from now on

This was the same in the 80's 2 routes available btec or City and guilds we went down the btec onc/hnc route just theory with a few practicals but City and guilds had installation and practical work for domestic electricians our was more industrial

I was trained many years ago as an " electrician" pre AM2, in the last 10 years i have added Gas and Fgas to my qualifications. It was only when i had to do a resit of my Gas qualifications, after 5 years, that the new college pointed out i had a key ticket missing from my "list of gas qualifications" so i had been carrying out some elements of gas work illegaly, Clearly i was not too chuffed as the first college i relied upon to know which tickets i needed for the type of work i wanted to do missed this important element. Neither my re-sit college, nor myself can fathom why i was allowed to be a qualified non-domestic gas engineer without one key ticket and even though i had been fully checked and completed my probabtion period with gas safe it still went un-noticed. I just think it is now way too complicated for any agency to work out what tickets are needed, hence the confusion. Anyway - it was a good video and i am sure you have all the necessary experience and knowledge to carry out safe practices. All the best for the future.

Great video! I finished college in 2008 but never Completed my portfolio at the time, thinking I’d never need it. I’m now doing my portfolio through a company online. Hoping to get gold card registered at the end. I done my am2 in 2007 so hopefully that still stands. I tried for weeks to get that confirmed from the JIB

This happened to me i did the same as you then went off as a spark for 10 years then like you found out the jib didn't class me as a spark so had to take the nvq 3 to get a gold card and when my cert came it had a jib stamp at the top . Its a con and we should be able to seek some compensation as my nvq cost £1000

I had a similar experience, but realised straight after we finished the 2360 part 2!! So I did my 2391 and nvq 3 which got me the jib gold approved card. I could have been much clearer that the 2360 alone was not the full ticket!

Amazing honest video, well done Adrian. Tbh its all very confusing to know which path to take and no path is clearly defined when learning 🤦🏻‍♂️ It appears to me as a learner, that there are too many bodies involved and companies who want a piece of the pie, without concentrating on providing a concise path to the end goal.

I served my apprenticeship from 1975 to 1979 with the MOD, life was simpler then. 2 days a week I went to collage and worked the other 3. At the end of each course there were City & Guilds examinations which you either passed or failed. Having passed all 3 parts of the C&G exams I was entitled to call myself a qualified electrician. For those appentices that failed to gain all the certificates they were classed as time-served electricians but were not allowed to do inspections. Life was so much simpler then. Today you need plough through miles of red tape just to put on a plug top.

Currently in college doing my level 3 2365. Completed my 18th edition. Completed ECS h&s & Part P. (Certain councils require you to have part p to undertake any electrical work.. having said that it is in no way enforced as Part P is seen as a joke when compared to C&G / 18th edition qualifications) Technically, you do not need the 2391 to sign off work / installations; just need to be able to prove that you are "competent person" and registered with a governing body like the NICEIC / Napit. I know sparks that only have 18th edition and they can sign off their own / other peoples work. Having said that, i will definitely be doing my 2391 because.. why wouldn't you? If something goes wrong on an EICR you have recently submitted.. to prove you are a competent person to a court you can say i have completed the 2391 rather than saying "oh well the only trade courses i have completed that have anything to do with testing and inspection was Level 3".. It is my understanding that in the domestic sector the rules are fairly relaxed on what you need to complete installs. Whereas with industrial / commercial it is far more strict. This mainly comes down to the firms themselves requiring workers to have as many qualifications as possible so as to bring insurance costs down.. ie JIB Gold card / 2391 / NVQ Level 3. I've been told by my lecturers and from older electricians that the NVQ was a route brought in to help older electricians without any qualifications to gain them while working full time. However in the last 20 / 30 years it has been hijacked and turned into more of an apprenticeship for "school leavers" and the 2365 has reverted into the route for older learners wanting to gain qualifications. I've always been told that on paper the C&G qualifications are far more valuable than the NVQ purely because of this "portfolio" that the younger lads have to do while onsite. Apparently, it isn't actually teaching them the why/science behind what they are doing and installing which is where evening/full time college courses are more valuable. Many people have advised me that if i'm not going to work for a massive firm doing residential builds or commercial work then there is no point in doing the AM2 and getting a Gold Card. The JIB Gold card is only a ticket onto a building site with good wages but what is the point when i will be working for a small firm? You ask an NVQ electricians about the 2365 and he will say its a load of shite. And its vice versa for the 2365 guys. At the end of the day they only care about getting bums in seats and making a few quid. All depends on what you want to concentrate on in the industry.

Really sorry to hear your in this predicament. Unfortunately this still goes on throughout the country, it's going to happen with the domestic installer courses. This will carry on where funding pots is available for lower level courses, colleges use people wanting to undertake such courses just to make.

Top man respect to you their needs a different route to obtain level 3 rather than a portfolio

Wow. This totally applies to me! Except I’ve been passing my self off as an electrical engineer for 36 years!

Personally, for me I was told at the age of 24 by the big firms that I was too old to be considered an apprentice. So, after phoning 70 companies mid November I found a fairly small company where they agreed to take me on, dependant on me finding a college placement straight away. Luckily, someone had dropped off the course and I jumped straight in. However, I could never gather the right evidence together to get my portfolio going, nevermind understand what I might have to do at the AM2. I scraped through the L3 2330 and 17th Edition. That was it. No chance of getting that JIB Gold card. You have a 3 yr window once you start the NVQ.

Thanks for the video couldn't agree more why so many routes? and its becoming so confusing

I served my time in the early 60s. It was a 5 year apprenticeship. City and guilds was 3 levels A B C. C being the highest grade. This was before JIB ratings, which were set by your employer. So whatever he said was taken as gospel. The level of certification these days amazes me. You almost get a certificate for putting a plug top on. Am I qualified ? I really don't know. My depth of knowledge is vast, BUT unproveable. This video has opened a whole can of worms for all of us. My initial qualifications are well dated by now, although I've done later regs updates and inspection and testing updates. Thanks for the video, very thought provoking

I had the exact same problem as your self I went down the experienced worker route in the end did the portfolio and the AM2 finally got my jib gold card approved electrician it took ten years all because I wasn't given the correct information at the beginning of the course

I can’t even find my certificates any more from years ago. But still fine.

Excellent vidro after 6 years and L 2 L3 and inspection and testing still I am not fully qualified.

Hi I did a similar route as you, the AM 2 was not around or if it was then I’d not herd of it. I went to college to get my City & Guilds like you 1 day 2 nights, my teacher asked why I was doing this as I’d never be able to work on sites as I did not follow the apprenticeship route. . My answer was I’m going to work for my self 3 years later got my City & Guilds I did free work to gain practical experience over the 3 year period. Once I had my City & Guilds qualifications I applied for membership of the NICEIC and was examined on site and inspected and passed and was inspected for the next 10 years. As far as I was concerned I was a qualified electrician with high standards. I can see the amount of paperwork now and extra regulations now required for installations. I live in Thailand now and still do a bit of Electrics for friends, my NICEIC Inspector would die if he seen the standards here. Just found your video and Subscribed. Yes I hold my hands up did not go the apprenticeship route. Was an interesting video, watching your other vids now.

I've got the same qualifications as you, there was no am2 when I left college in 1989, I've been running My own business for 25 years and been in the business 36. I work in heavy industry, prisons, schools etc. But my son who's a 21yo sparky is more qualified than me. 🤔

you do not need to be qualified historically, you merely need to be able to prove competence - thats the law despite what the NICEIC say...

Same has happen to me and now I’ve done my portfolio just waiting for my am2 exam. Good luck pal

Mate I'm in the same boat. Did 3 years at Brighton city college from 2011 to 2014. I didn't get a single certificate even though I eventually passed everything. Paid £1200 a year even though I started on £50 a day working in London at the age of 33. When I finally finished the 3 years I assumed I'd get a certificate but got nothing. I carried on working on-site as a mate and never questioned it and then became a BMS commissioning engineer at 40 and didn't need to do the am2. However, now I need to renew my ECS card and they've changed the process. I need to upload my city and guilds cert in order to book my health and safety exam but of course, I didn't actually get one. I've been working on site for over 10 years now and never had an issue booking my health and safety exam. I can do yet another course at £150 and then take the ECS exam to get my card to enable me to work on site but the first booking is in June and my card runs out in April. I approached Brighton city college asking for my certificate but they told me I failed the course. 3 years of night college 3 times a week after working in London all day for fk all. The course was an absolute shambles. The tutors didn't have a clue what was going on either. Our only saving grace was our theory teacher Jim. He was shocked at our lack of knowledge after TWO YEARS. He basically taught us 3 years in 1 year and we passed. But nothing to show for it.

I spent 30 years working as an electrician across 3 different company’s and had my work passed by testers saying that my last company I worked for was only across 4 years and they told me I had to produce certification or they can’t fully employ me as an electrician even though I’d served my time 14 years with one company and 6 years with another so I went to Colege I achieved part 1 and 2 regs certificate am1 and 2391 inspecting and testing they then said I could call my self an electrician so this was like 23 years of working and in the last three of them gaining certification I then worked another 7 years doing the same work as I’ve always done I my mind pieces of paper don’t make you a certain trade but 20 years of consistent high grade of work and learning from your elders on site in my mind I can call my self a tradesman time served Because we live in a litical society you need to have certification to prove your competence for a defence

im currently on level 3 at college and they have just told us we have to do am2 and the portfolio to be qualified. we have all paid 6k for the 3 years and now have to pay another 2k to get qualified. instructor said its a way of getting people qualified that couldn't get an apprenticeship.

Great video mate I fell into the same trap changed my career later in life did the same as you went to a college and enrolled, work my arse off and spent thousands of pounds to pass level 2 and 3 to realise it’s pretty much useless and I’m not qualified or fully qualified as in am2 level. To get exited in receiving certificates and then realising you gotta spend thousands more for the nvq and am2 it’s madness lol the industry is a disgrace a snobby money making scheme

I feel for you, I'm in a similar boat, where I passed my dual skilled apprenticeship in industry 30+ years ago, working alongside 236 craft and EAL technical qualifications. I've every BS7671 qualification back to the 15th edition and have 2391 and yet I'm not classed as a competent person as I don't have the AM2. So I too have to now look and see if it's worth me going down the experienced worker route.

In thinking about the implications about this, it would be good if it didn't matter to be honest as like has been said there will be some clowns out there fully qualified but incapable of safely doing anything! Contrary to popular belief plant operating has no legislative requirement for a ticket, only that you have received information, instruction and training. Obtaining insurance would be tricky though!

Can you explain what you can do after you get the qualifications all the different routes you can take

In exactly the same boat as you. 2 years, 3 nights a week, 6-9pm. 'Qualified' in 2014 @ 2365 level 2 + 3. Always been in the back of my mind 'am I really qualified to carry out this work', even though I'm passed as competent and qualified and contractors are happy with my work. Seems there needs to be more clarification for the industry. Great video 👍

I agree with you, i have just finished the course in October & i have finished my 2391 inspection & Testing beside all the other qualifications & there are much left to do that i was not aware of! The NVQ, AM2, PRTFOLIO! So many roots & you don't know the difference! Its a shame

The industry is a complete mess it's all about money with JIB and these other organisations.

When a person can prove many years of experience working for reputable companies, specialised in electrical installation or electrical plant maintenance, or has a proven track record in a complex electrical environment can prove they have had relevant training, hold 18th edition regs qualification, hold 2391-52, they are legally qualified, legally skilled. AM2 is a cert from a specific organisation, which also has to follow the 18th edition regs, and it has to follow a 2391 type qualification. Their are plenty of AM2 qualified persons who do horrific work, they may hold the AM2 cert but do unqualified work. A excellent installation may just need to be inspected and tested, being qualified to test and inspect is specifically 2391, doesn't mean you need to do the installation. Qualified has Many meanings. Going around saying an experienced professional isn't qualified just because they don't hold AM2 is ludicrous because AM2 is only one of many qualifications. Holding a 2010 AM2 shows a person has completed an assessment doesn't prove they are up to date nor prove they are currently capable of working to latest standards.

You are brave to share your story with us and we learn from your story. This blackhole is really a money grabbing business in the industry specially those who provide the services for candidates because lots of colleges and training centres are out there who are just making money. They produce quantities not qualities. Who is to blame? Of course the government and education ministry.

I started college in 2001 as an apprentice I did 5 years at college I did all my portfolio I did the am2. But at the end off it I changed company and it was never signed off by the employer so I never received my job gold card I've been working on the tools for 20years. And it's not until now that it's catching up its all about paperwork. I need to do my 18th edition and then some how find away of getting a new ecs gold card to move on.

It is all about the money

I,m fully qualified electrician, with all current paperwork, part p etc , gave it all up during lockdown, started delivery parcels, now have people Delivering for me , made far more money than I ever did out of electrical work. It seems the easy road pays way better.

Excellent information You are right 100%

Thank you for this video lot of information,

Admittedly there is much confusion in this trade today, its all about training providers becoming cash cows, IMO part p in domestic installations has messed this industry up big time, when I started my apprentership there was no sector/division domestic, industrial, domestic installer. (what the hells that all about) There are many routes into becoming an Electrician today. IMO if you get accepted in any CPS they take your money, in their eyes your qualified Gold card be dammed. You can have as many certificates as long as your arm, with no practical experience they are as good as useless.

Ocourse if you go by the IET or the JIb you wouldn’t be classed as an Electrician till you pumped your hard earned money into their pockets for a lucky bag style card

The gold card in the old days was for grading apprentices to see if they are capable of carrying out any electrical task, if they passed they were graded has an electricians, this is mainly for big contractors.in the JIB or ECA. Nowadays everyone has to have it due to ( in the past) none qualified people turning up on site, making out they are electricians when they weren't. I did 236 parts 1&2 and 2391 in the 80's plus 15th, 16th 17th and 18th editions. this was the apprentice route for smaller contractors who were not in the ECA or JIB. The last 10 years i have been the NICEIC QS for three different large electrical contactor and my qualifications have never been an issue with the NICEIC. When they assess my knowledge and competency, they note on the assessment "acceptable standard" and thats a compliment. You won't get better than that. I did explain the above to the gold card people but they just said " sorry, the computer says no, you can't have a gold card.

I had very similar experience. Good luck.

I would love to see a comment from the E Fixx guys, who should know about this.

I have serious doubts about the quality of work of some so called qualified electricians. Especially some that do EICRs snd find loads of unnecessary work to make more money.

Great info Adrian. I am a leccy of 10 years having completed a 3 year apprenticeship in Engineering Manufacture. I had no idea what the AM2 was. I do have a folder full of C&G certificates but now wondering what I am actually qualified to do atm or able to do in the future. The accreditation seems so convoluted and vague.

Adrian, experience always topples qualifications imo. I'm a mature student who decided to get qualified* as a sparks at the age of 47! Due to the perception of the general public assuming that sparks are more qualified than time served fire & security engineers to install alarm systems, coupled with the fact that many local sparks round my area all advertised on their vans the usual "fire alarms, burglar alarms, CCTV" etc so I thought why don't I do electrics? Off I went to my local college and within the year had completed level 3, 17th ed, test & inspect and the conditional report qualifications, I had no intention of completing the NVQ3 supplementary portfolio has I cannot afford and have no desire to become an apprentice at my age! I think the current system is geared towards young people which is great and I can see the benefits. I am and have been an NICEIC approved contractor for the last two years and had been told that if you had 3yrs with the NICEIC that you could apply for the JIB Gold Card they have now moved the goal posts again lol. I know some reading this will be horrified that I managed the above qualifications in a ten month period whilst running my fire & security business but it is really about the mind set and technical competence, trust me when I say I was appalled with the quality of the so called level 3 students attending the same course as myself, the large majority of whom were working in the electrical industry as electrians the college's are passing people that have no idea so they can get funding for the following year...this maybe why the pass rate for the AM2 is so low.

Yes! Done a 4 year apprenticeship and have 18 years experience. I dont need to pay a governing body to tell me i am competent 🤣🤣🤣

Unfortunately this is what people need to hear to stop what's going on

Interesting video, I did almost the same as you in the late 90's...night school, got c&g pts 1&2, NVQ, AM1. Was told that the college didn't support the AM2 and I would have to do that elsewhere. I couldn't afford it at the time and have never done it. I hold a Jib gold card as a registered electrician though as my boss gave me a supporting letter saying I was competent in all aspects of electrical work. So you don't (or didn't) need to have the AM2 to get one. As you allude to, its a total mess though. Good luck with your courses etc.

This is something I’ve been looking into myself. I did my Part 1 full time after I left school in 1999 then my part 2 and 16th edition during an apprenticeship for a security firm. Not sure weather I’m a qualified spark or not but I’m sure I’m just missing my part P and update to 18th edition. 20 years in the security industry now but wanting to keep my options open just in case...

Luckily as I done my apprenticeship through a government funded training provider (JTL) I was never misled and knew from day 1 I had to complete my NVQ and sit my AM2 to qualify for my gold card

The line "qualified" is a very odd one. As all you technically need to prove is competentcy for almost all situations. If you want a jib gold card then yes you may need to do your am2 but do you need a gold card. I do find it odd that there are companies out there providing courses claiming to be a spark in "6 weeks" when the only useful bit of paper you are left with is your 18th which could be done in a 3 days course. There are plenty of sparks out there who don't have all the bits of paper and are great sparks and there are guys who have don't a 5 year apprenticeship got all the bits of paper and produce shocking work. The cps should be far more strict on work completed and if you fail you should be struck off and that should be public info. Unfortunately it all just a money making exercise and people go round fleecing the public who are even more confused about who is and who isn't a spark