Arrow Lake Is a Wake Up Call For AMD 

The bigger problem with Zen 5 was Windows botching it's performance. On Linux, Zen 5 had significant performance increase over 8000/7000 series, close to what AMD claimed. Not really much of AMD's fault there, but still, what they're gonna do after Zen, though?

@@edR_mcd who gives a fuck about linux????????? everyone use windows

​​@@edR_mcdNot really though, the brand prediction algorithm was a general uplift that improved the performance of zen 3 and zen 4 as well. So the margin between zen 4 and zen 5 is still marginal for most applications.

Was just about to say this myself. Zen 5 was supposed to have +40% IPC gains and would've been revolutionary. Leaks are unreliable like that, and in turn, pretty much all the content in this channel is just slop. A shame, because the host himself is actually pretty charismatic and entertaining.

Yeh, let's wait for the reviews. If all this is true and the prices are competitive, I am buying.

@@LetMeSnipCode it is not that they can't do well! but ontop what they did with 14 series. And how manny problems it had/has. I just don't Think People exspects alot from Intel at the moment. And they probberly whant some proof it's not another shit show

It's been always like this, amd cpus often gets overhyped and in the end it underdelivers, while intel cpus often gets shoved away as failure even before the product launch, yet to be proven wrong quite often.

​​@@lasselund1643they replace every defect cpu and even good ones that have been sent to them. What do you want more? Do you want a new car payed by them?

Most people with those opinions are teenagers with no real world experience.

@@lasselund1643a very small number of 14 gen have those issues. Internet just blows it up out of proportion.

Indeed, it will push AMD to make even better CPUs and so on. : )

Greedel

​@@jesusquintero8905 Exactly hopefully it forces AMD to never sleep in their laurels again and avoid another 9000 series situation. That being said I can't wholeheartedly switch to Intel yet until they start offering socket support on AMD's level. Being able to install a 7th gen CPU now and potentially a 10th or 11th gen one 5 years down the road is a lot of added value. Especially with current MOBO pricing.

your PCs can be whatever it wants, I dont know why reddit and twitter treat this like sports teams

Z790s cost £139 and up. Most expenisve boards go up to around 600. For the Intel processor (i7). A 7800X3D is loads cheaper I want a 7800X3D with ASUS ROG mb but waiting the right time and X870 to come out

What's wrong with the 13th gen? It was a great improvement over the 12 gen. I bought an i5 13 gen a year and a half ago, and it works great.

@@Мирич-з4е Some higher end chips (mainly I9 and I7) were frying themselves and failing due to high voltages.

The problem with that is though, that 13th & 14th gen didn't show degradation problems until like 1.5 years into their life cycle for 13th gen. And that too is when 13th gen was supposed to be a refinement on 12th gen. Technically you can make the argument that 12th gen was the early adopter stuff, 13th gen WAS the refinement ('cause, if you ignore the 13900K, the 13th gen actually has better performance per watt than 12th gen), and then 14th gen was just a stop-gap until they could mature their Arrow Lake manufacturing. So, in this specific case, the early adopters got the better deal.

13th and 14th gen were 12th gen refreshes. This is the first new thing in ~3 years.

arrow lake is not a refresh and its gonna last longer than 12th gen due to new memory bus technogoloy to support CUDIMM and CAM2 . Much easier for cpu's to not have DIMM voltage regulator when CUDIMM / cam2 no longer gonna depend on your cpu voltage regulator when its built in every new dimms now...but careful not overvoltage the dimms...since it no longer gonna fried cpu memory voltage regulator ...it will fried the new dimms regulators while cpu be spared but the new dimms will not

Gonna upgrade from my 9700k to the latest core ultra 9 hopefully it will be enough of cpu power for the 5090

@@Yooman1337 if you currently have a 4090 you do not need a 5090. It’s literally a waste of money.

lol I've done the same thing w/ AMD but mine's a 3950x but tbf I had three AMD sys a 2950x, 3700x and a 3950x. All of which gave me nothing but issues so I stick w/ Intel. Intel's latest issues w/ their i9 are both Intel & mobo comps fault of trying to push limits to compete. If you lock your cores, voltages and keep temps 90C or below your chip will be fine. I have 3 Intel chips all of which work flawless w/ no stability issues.

But really, IF is what is holding Ryzen back. They need a rework

@@SiliconSteak ryzen get hold back by infinite fabric, 6000Mhz is not enough and imagine 7800x3d with ddr5-8400Mhz would be amazing but does not support that. well at last not unstable like intel i9

Zen 6 might be really good.

@@GraphicallyChallenged Are they updating IF? Only leaks I’ve heard for zen 6 is from MLID, and well, he’s extremely biased towards team red

​So everyone that were disappointed by ryzen performance is an intel fanboy? Unholy cow damn maybe im intel Fanboy and i don't even know that 😱 ​@@Kage0No0Tenshi

Well they gotta make Intel look good.

From someone looking to upgrade as my current setup is pushing ~5 years old at this point, I'll give you my perspective. AMD has been purposely kneecapping their own products to save money and claim compatibility with older motherboards. We've got the latency issues and the old I/O die which limits memory speed and they paper over the issue with 3D vcache. And now we have the fact that half of the 9950X cores don't even boost to their maximum rated speed and are 300MHz slower... From someone looking to buy the top of the stack for professional use as a business write off with no budget, it still doesn't sit right seeing AMD holding their own product back like this. Why would they not just save all the best binned CCDs for their flagship? They cut corners on the flagship and the entire stack which needs 3D to be viable all to save on costs. I'll take the Intel 285k at the rumored $625 which lets me utilize faster memory and much better latency, much better single core speed, very competitive multi-core speed. I'm buying a new motherboard and RAM anyway because as I said the setup is almost 5 years old now Comet Lake. I expect AMD to drop the 9950X below $600 after Intel 200 comes out. Maybe AMD will release a good product next gen after getting smashed this generation by Intel's offering, but by then it won't really matter since I don't upgrade each generation. I doubt they'll be fixing the 9950X's second CCD with the 9950X3D but if they did that would be something to seriously consider. My advice to you when upgrading is wait for one of them to make a big architectural push and you get the best product that lasts a long time. Neither Intel nor AMD have been making serious progress in years, now is the time to strike when Intel drops this if it goes smoothly. The next time to strike would be when AMD finally upgrades that I/O die and unleashes their memory bottleneck. I'll be waiting until next year to make the purchase for tax reasons, so I'll have time to gauge the initial response and benchmarks on Intel 200.

There's a lot here that seems ridiculously overinflated. I keep hitting the like button and no new GPUs.

@@Felale The issue is windows. None of the issues you mention actually exist under Linux. AMD is going to sell all the zen5 chiplets they can produce for server and AI. Zen5 is an AVX512 beast... the latency your talking about was fixed already with a bios flash. Every AI/Server user is using Linux... and AMDs Linux stack is top notch and the new EEVDF scheduler is fully informed in how to optimally feed AMD cores. Bringing it back to consumer. Windows requires BS like core parking cause widnows frankly is 20 year old tech... they are still using the same scheduling they have used since Vista. (Seriously MS hasn't updated it at all). Gaming on Linux core parking at best gains you 2 or 3% of extra performance half of the time and costs you 10+% the other half. Windows is dog shit. The chances of Intel having a smooth launch with arrow lake I would put at 50/50 as well.

@@chaddesrosiers1107 AVX512 suck ass man, Linus Torvalds (creator of Linux) once said, "I hope AVX-512 dies a painful death."

@@alessandropisano9903 yep that's what I am waiting for.

Agreed

Zen 5 X3D has the same Cache Size and will have the same cache/CCD split as Zen 4X3D. But you will no longer have a core clock deficit and limited OC will be possible.

Let's hope Intel copy 3d vcache on their new processors soon. Us consumers are benefitting if the companies are copying what is good from each other.

@@aos32 First i Hope It doesn't happen and second i think It can't happen because probably It's a petent

@@ShadowAngelS2K it probably going to have a tiny 5% boost compared to their previous 7000 versions

@@frostytaco8598 7800X3D is already sitting at $400+ so might as well wait

Either way replacing the 7800x3d will not be worth​@@frostytaco8598

Either way replacing the 7800x3d will not be worth​@@frostytaco8598

bruh wasn't three gens of cpu enough for one motherboard

​@@smartcucumber7559 It's technically 2 and a half gens. The 14 gen was just like a refresh to the 13 gen. Also AMD keep the same sockets for 4 gens.

same here, been amd all these year, time to switch, but you and I going to wait till 9800x3d benchmark comparison. It's in our nature. We are not betrayers like intel fanboys. Red team is value team, anti fanboism.

High performance means nothing with their LOSER 32MB cache. Losers

different arquiteture, there will be no problems like the generation prior.

13 and 14th Gens killed themselves due to excessive voltages. It's bug in code not a design nor manufacturing flaw. However they weren't very efficient and were pushed too much to try to keep up with AMD. It's like pushing a Turbo on a 4 banger to keep up with V6 at the expensive of reliability.

It will be on a brand new platform so honestly it's pretty likely to be fixed

@@henryyiu618yeah they could have tried v cache or some less core ideas why did they have to go the good old-fashioned voltage method to improve.

How did they fcked you?! You see the reviews and you buy them.

what happened?

@@fuzitele7830 Whoa!!! That's one hell of a big rock you're under there.

@@fuzitele7830 13/14900K degrading

I've mostly used Intel over the years. I've had an 80386, 486, Pentium, Pentium 2, Pentium 3, skipped Pentium 4 and used an Athlon64, then went back to Intel during the Core 2 lineup, then used an i7 2600k, and now I'm using an AMD 5800x.

13900k is a beast. And this is coming from a person owning AMD-based PCs so no fanboyism here. I hope it's stable and serves you well for years. 👍

My 13600kf has been nice low temps hardly ever gets hot

​@bgtubber hopefully so 😂

same with my 14700k it's running good as new and matches 9700x easily!

Exactly

But the 7800X3D feels like garbage on desktop tasks outside of the games. So you have to drop the full amount to get the best of both worlds...

9950X is the best all around CPU. Windows snappiness is garbage on a 7800X3D and also the 9950X wrecks the 7800X3D in productivity and even in gaming the 9950X is around 5-10% slower than a 7800X3D.

​@@Felale If you're having issues on a 7800X3D with windows and basic desktop tasks, you have other issues with your PC. I've never noticed an issue.

@@FelaleNot true. Code compilation and virtualization takes advantage of the cache. One of the compiling benchmarks Steve from gn admitted he took out because it was a cache benchmark. I use my 7950x3d for work because it doesn’t sound like a jet engine taking off at 95c heat being blasted. Cinebench shows it’s 96% as fast as a 7950x

@@VitisCZ it's for the E cores not for the P cores, you know the ceiling for those would be essencially turning them into P cores for 100-200% improvement.

bruh you're hating at this point if you don't wanna buy then don't, my 14700k runs great and matches 9700x

FINALLY SOMEONE WITH COMMON SENSE

That's a massive exaggeration. Looks like they don't need anything special to take the performance crown in leaked benchmarks. For professional use and older applications which rely on single core performance, it's already looking like the king. Brand new and much smaller architecture means it won't have any of the old issues and will be far more power efficient than older generations. AMD should watch out on the lower end, because Intel is going to be bringing the value deals again with strong performance on the bottom of the stack. AMD needs to get their act together and stop delivering the minimum viable product generation after generation. Improve the I/O die and fix the latency. Intel lets people stretch the legs of their high performance memory, and that's supposed to be a bad thing? Time is money.

@@Felale Time is indeed money, and if you know anything about dialing in a memory overclock at 8000+mhz, then you'll know that you need a chip with a golden IMC, a top of the range 2-DIMM motherboard, and a whole lot of time AND money, that was what was required for 13-14th gen to best Zen 4, and it'll be what is required for 15th gen to best Zen 5 X3D, in terms of gaming, in other use case scenarios, AMD is in trouble. And then Zen 6 will come out, and the song and dance will continue.

@@glynkatkin ok amd fanboy

@@glynkatkin I plan on just buying some fast memory with a good XMP profile out of the box. No messing around with it and blows away anything that will run on AMD. If you don't care about saving money you don't have to monkey with your memory overclock.

maybe

the only positive of 9950x are reduced temps, the rest, super meh..

Zen 5%

@@NothingNewNerd Zen 6000MT/s

@@NothingNewNerd in games on windows.

If it wasn't for AMD and Ryzen, Intel would still be charging a premium price for 4 core non hyperthreading cpu's

Why are you there then lol

Same here. Arrow Lake is right around the corner. I'm looking forward to a high end ITX build that I can run completely air-cooled.

7800x3d😊

@@NoName-qs7ed not good enough

@@NoName-qs7ed 500 USD for Ryzen 7 is crazy

But if you wait another year, there'll be a newer better CPU. Wait, if you wait two more years, there'll be an even better CPU.

I think the mobile version is Lunar Lake...

My 7840hs does 1080x60 all day on win 11.. My only complaint is the unwillingness for amd to extend rocm to the apu (I guess to push discreet gpu and npu for ai) but there are lots of good hacks for win 11 (zluda has been a god send) it's actually the Linux side that sucks now at least because the hsa override does not really work as well as it did and the lack of official rocm support is much harder to work around leading to OOM and crashing when it is far more capable than even amd apparently wants it to be

I want arrow lake halo, with celestial or battlemage igpu

@@NothingNewNerd that would be interesting too, but will the GPU drivers work? AMD's is pretty stable and the thing with Arc launch.

@@michaelernst3731 they should be better, arc already works on 93% of games, the reason battlemage took a year longer than it needed was just for driver optimization

@@konstantinavalentina3850I think their HX or H like is still their higher powered laptop line of chips. Just like strix halo will be AMD laptop line

"unbiased" 🤣

@@RobloxianX hyperthreading is gone so same threads as cores

@@cronos1368 did you not read my comment

@@RobloxianX yes i did but intel anounced the removal of hyperthreading because it caused a lack of performance and when i saw the 18 cores 36 threads i told you about the hyperthreading.

@@cronos1368 I am literally talking about HEDT not the consumer platform, read the comment next time.

@@eric-pl6rk it’s 2nm.

This is a entierely different architecture I don't expect intel messing up the 2nd time but we'll see what happens.

Yep, tbf a fumble is expected but different architecture i feel like it's hard to mess up. Especially for low power because those chips are specifically for laptops

Because their shares plummeted. Buy lows, sell highs. We can only benefit from all this as Intel could release these new CPU's priced low so they can catch up.

Because foundries cost tens of billions and that's where they're falling behind

Perhaps because Intel is undervalued by the market obviously? 😂

If you're talking about Zen5 lunch, as far as I can tell the poor performance is not the fault of Zen5 itself but Windows 11 specifically. The reason why AMD's numbers were much higher than when reviewers started their benchmarks is because AMD was using an insider build of windows on elevated admin privileges. The public version of Windows 11 is unoptimized for Zen5 (some speculate it's on purpose, but I'll leave the judgement to you), and on top of that it comes with a security setting that'son by default that lowers CPU power, which hits Zen5 especially hard compared to other CPUs (again, its speculated its on purpose). The same kinds of issues don't exist on Windows 10 and Linux, I think it's a difference of about 20-30% performance gain over Windows 11. AMD should have probably done a more thorough job when testing, but I can't really blame them for assuming whatever updates were put on their test version of Windows would make their way to users too.

I heard the same thing, but only that the performance loss was between 10-15%