Ascended Astarion Doesn't Care About Love | Rare Dialogue 

Exactly, actually every dialogue with AA is tragic, sad or frightening on some level.

@@OonalovesAstarionssimpleplan yeah ascended Astarion gets PISSED if you even mention Cazadors name, but spawn Astarion is basically like “yeah I’m glad the bastard is dead now” but doesn’t get mad at you just for mentioning him. And if you become his spawn (technically a vampire bride) then he gives you “rules” just like Cazador did, only he doesn’t outright say they are rules because he is much better at manipulating people than Cazador was. Cazador had the rule about “thou shall not drink the blood of thinking creatures” and AA gives you the line like “oh there’s no need to worry about you finding blood to drink, I’ll handle all that” (therefore still controlling who/what/when you can drink blood)

@@elenalizabeth Ascended Astarion gets pissed if you call him Cazador. You can bring up how he felt at Cazador and he tells you he felt great killing him. At the epilogue you can bring up Cazador again if unromanced and he tells you that he knows you are trying to hurt him, but it wont work

@@SquirrellySkeptical that still sounds like he never “heals from it” then if even bringing up Cazador makes Astarion think you are trying to hurt him - because that is what ascended Astarion thinks - that everyone wants to hurt him and so that is why he needed to be more powerful than them all. Because that is what he was told by Cazador for 200 years - that he was weak, stupid, powerless, that his body was his only useful trait, etc, and so by letting him ascend you confirm his fears/beliefs. But spawn Astarion (especially if romanced) realises that you have his back, that you are his friend, his confidant, his equal, and that will be there for him (even when he is being a bit of an ass), so he realised that he could be better than Cazador by not becoming the new master and not killing all those innocents, because with you as his friend (or lover) he didn’t really need that ascendent power to be powerful.

⁠@@elenalizabethwhat? He doesn’t control where/how you drink your blood. He even openly encourages you to drink from the drow twins (and Halsin) if you visit them, and from himself the morning after he turns you. Not sure where you got that line from

Especially if you play as Karlach. 😭

I think that’s one of the biggest differences between ascended Astarion and spawn Astarion - as ascended he wants to rule over and control everyone (especially you), but as spawn he just wants to learn to live again (and maybe kill/eat a bunch of bad guys along the way). Astarion just fundamentally doesn’t want to be alone, as that as what he felt for 200 years (utter loneliness), so now he has you he wants to hold on, so as ascended he uses control and manipulation to try to force you to stick around, but as spawn he shows you love and care so that you’ll want to stay with him of your own free will.

Oh Interesting, I haven't seen it like that before. it shows that his views have now really adapted to those of cazador. that you are weak just because you are not powerful.

if you look into how cazador presents himself to astarion, it’s very clear he has a savior complex. he used enthralled gur hunters to track him down and unalive him, only so cazador could show up and “save” him. that’s what AA is doing too. hes believing himself to be tav’s savior, saving you from yourself. he is so deluded that he truly believes that this entire time, he’s been saving you. you’re not “fixing” him, he’s fixing you. just as cazador fixed him.

@@teriyaki9832 and when you suggest to Astarion that’s “it’s rather suspicious that Cazador just happened to show up right at that point to save him”, Astarion tries to brush it off like “maybe he was just drawn to the scent of blood”, like no hun, the bastard planned it all so he could get you under his control and make you his pretty little mind-controlled puppet. And then when we got to Cazadors palace and actually met him, I was like WTF this little squirrelly motherf*cker is the one who has been hurting you 🤬🤬 as soon as Cazador spoke and was an a**hole to Astarion I was like “why is there no torture him before killing option” 🤬🤬

Wow this is so interesting, true narcissistic abuse going on at this point

You get a disapproval whichever option you pick there....its the line after it that gives you the disapproval (Astarions line)..but basically you are telling him you want to break up and all of those options give you disapproval

He is incerdible :D

I HATE how the way he said that made me laugh ASCENDED ASTARION WHEN I CATCH YOU

I also think that he loves the player in a way. But I think there are different ways to deal with love. Some are jealous and control their partner etc. and there is sincere, equal love. The former is a love that maintains the self-image, they love someone because they love and adore them. Which would explain his obsessive behavior and controlling. He must have power over u at all costs even if it doesn't make you happy.

​@@OonalovesAstarionssimpleplan @KOOLPLUG I don't know if it's a good thing to stamp such an obviously toxic relationship with love. What is this supposed to convey to those who are stuck in such relationships? 'He decides about my life but at least he loves me?'

@@Arvania90 absolutely. If there's something I don't like, it's when he's portrayed as romantic and trivialize his abusive actions. This is the tragic end, where he gives in to his trauma and hates everyone and everything. (A relief to no longer have mercy) and there is no room for sincere love tbh

He doesn't because he can't control you as your tadpoled. When you go straight to netherbrain and don't become his spawn. He makes you one off screen, which may imply he forced it onto you.

I think Larian makes it clear that he uses love as manipulation. But I also think that AA loves Tav/Durge in a way, a different love than Spawns. But an obsession is always the fear of losing your self-image. Possessiveness is the fear of losing control over the person (love). I don't wish that kind of love for him tbh. With the Ascension you convey to him that the worldview he had through Cazador is correct. That he is weak and has to be strong, he doesn't allow himself weakness and therefore feelings that can seem weak. love, compassion. everything is just about more power. For him, true feelings like friendship means playing machinations. I don't wish that for him either. During the insight check he thinks you are degrading yourself staying with him - his goal is freedom and body autonomy - by becoming his spawn you give that up. Therefore he finds you degrading yourself. But if u break up with him, he Respekt u for that.

Okay, I want to chime in on the obedience and control equals love part, because that mindset usually comes from a lifetime of ab*se and is a coping mechanism. It is NOT healthy and will only hurt you in the long term. It keeps you alive in a toxic environment, but only causes you more harm as soon as you leave. PLEASE let's not normalize this. If you are into this dynamic, try bdsm, but don't stay with an abusive person. They will grind you to dust until nothing is left of you.

@@OonalovesAstarionssimpleplan true! I agree with a lot of that, but maybe with a couple of caveats and a different spin. The mechanical method he uses to turn T/D is consistent with making a vampire bride, not a spawn. I read in that relationship you have an eternal link to each other and the bride can't be controlled like a spawn, you are beholden to each other, and traditionally vampires trick their brides into it. It is a duplicitous way of securing the relationship, although he's very clear about the whole "aeterna amantes" thing (iirc he says that T/D will be his, but he also says he will be yours) to get your consent, he just omits how much power you'll have. And if you go through with it pretty much every single thing Astarion says about freedom and control is... Total posturing. Like, he says he doesn't "need" to control you because you'll do whatever he says anyway. Because he probably _can't_ control you (as a bride). He says you can't break up... Because yeah you have an eternal undying bond that you consented to. He's also got a very secure attachment style; if you get turned and go away for several months with Karlach and meet him again at the epilogue, he's like "Yeah no that's totally cool! I figure you're coming back and we have eternity, of course you can have a gallivant with your friends." and both versions of Astarion seem totally fine with Halsin. Ultimately, for all that he wants a power dynamic, I do think his starting position with the mortal T/D is be driven by love and a desire to secure you forever, but that the evolution of that relationship isn't driven by insecurity and control. I see it a bit like Titania and Oberon, or Hera and Zeus; manipulation and deceit are tools AA and T/D can both wield. If T/D just obeys, that would "ruin" their love. If they turn it back on AA like only a consort can, they're just taking on the (perhaps flawed) roles that eternal lovers of legend often have, in a way that mortals maybe can't. I can see why the breakup scenario looks like this, but I don't think it's true to the non-breakup scenario.

Also, when he meets you he thinks you're just a pawn to manipulate with love and sex. That changes completely, obviously. When he ascends I think it just puts him back to square 1 because the power dynamic is sooo over the top: sure, he thinks you're degrading yourself because in his experience he would have been, too, if he was in your shoes. I don't usually like to believe in "I can change him", but given that you already did it before I'm 80% confident it won't be a problem doing it again. Gotta address baggage step by step, this might just be the next step.

But I think it's totally okay to not feel that way. Even if you agreed there's an 80% chance your relationship will evolve, 80% is great odds for one shot in ranged combat, it's not great odds for an eternal relationship.