Ashes of Creation PvX DRAMA | Lloyd and Virtek attempt to discuss nuance 

Yeah I hate the idea haha. I dont think it's a good solution even if it does "solve" the problem.

LMAO I put the idea out there, and even I hate myself for doing it. I really don't like the idea, but I'm kinda just...throwing stuff at a wall to see what sticks.

I really appreciate you taking the time to listen and bring up your thoughts along the way

Very valid position. Personally, I'm all about the PVX life, as long as elder game PVE combat has a place in it that matches PVP combat's capabilities, impact, and opportunities. Otherwise, it's a PVP game with PVE feeders. Not the same as PVX, in my mind. The system needs to feel cohesive, where it all works together and both styles of play have actual desire behind them. If either is just "going through the motions" because they have to for the game to survive, I don't think it's engaging enough.

I absolutely love this aspect :).

I personally just think Ashes of Creation just needs PEOPLE. Regardless of what they enjoy. Some coming up with solutions that make people happy without devaluing what Ashes is, is the main goal.

@@LlewdLloyd im a dumbass i just read my last part and figured out why maybe pve players feel undervalued. pve players arent really needed and dont really have a big impact on the world around us and tbh im now getting where hes coming from. anyways great video and debate. im a little exhausted when it comes to the topic cause ive been hearing this debate for 15 years now so i might come off a little bit hot but im sure there is def a solution to this that the great minds at ashes can come up with and i hope they do especially given that there are alot of players who probably can only enjoy pve. but all i ask is dont dumb down pvx systems just to make pve players happy. make sure the systems are smooth and interact with each other well and compliment each other well.

Yeah, that's pretty much exactly what I'm talking about. PVE combat at end game needs to have something meaningful that can't be destroyed by PVP actions, as there is no counter for PVE actions to destroy PVP. No tangible and satisfying activities announced for PVE players to take part in besides open world bosses at risk of being overrun by PVP players and exp debt to gain from every failure. Exp debt reduces your combat effectiveness, btw. Exp Debt is removed in organized PVP, but not "organized" PVE that can be spoiled by PVP intervention. I'm just asking for balance, not preferential treatment, ya know? =) Even if it's just some leaderboards, cosmetics, titles, and achievements to track how great your group did in an instanced PVE raid with zero loot drops that provide actual income to imbalance the world's economy...that would be hugely satisfying to me. I would prefer loot drops, of course, but would be PERFECTLY happy if there were just the cosmetic and social rewards alone.

I definitely see that! I do think PvE is loosely based definition when we're talking about Node Sieges and things. Like yes, it's an enemy designed to lose to give your team a boost. But that's no different than objective like Dragon or Baron in League of Legends and can create some of the most interesting fights. Outside of that, I definitely agree with you.

@@LlewdLloydyeah I agree, it’s more bearable when it’s an event you compete for, brings another level of engagement to the game. As long as it’s set like that it’s tolerable. I do hope ashes can find balance with the PVX. With mmos PvP is definitely on the niche side of things so without the pve kids we won’t have a long lasting game. I like doing both my self so ashes is an ideal game for me in the mmo space. Hope to see it succeed for years to come.