Asimov's Positronic Man | Foundation Universe 

“‘Pierce was built by design, while you were built by accident,’ Lakashti said. ‘The soul is what matters, not the shape of the vessel.’ ‘What makes you think he has a soul?’ Gerrion said. ‘What makes you think you do?’" - Keith Baker, The Shattered Land

I loved the movie Bicentennial Man and thought it was one of the few movies that captured the essence of the source material.

Tangentially related: I remember in Futurama when most of Bender gets knocked out of the crows nest by a diamond. Hermes says something like "Bender is one of Planet Express's most expensive appliances". I laughed but it was always a little interesting that in the Futurama universe robots always existed between being a sentient individual that could fall in love, vote, and qualify for boat loans; and a disposable workforce that could be melted down as soon as they weren't needed.

I'm surprised you left out a very important fact, in my opinion. In the episode, Data's state as a "living being" is determined using the expression "to understand the concept and desire the outcome". That is a quote lifted word for word from the Bicentennial Man.

I cry every time I watch Bicentennial Man. Robin Williams really made me feel for Andrew

As soon as I saw the title I wondered if you'd bring up 'Measure of a Man'. And I am *so* glad you did. It's both one of the best and one my favorite episodes of Star Trek. Both in the questions it raises and both in how it answers them, and how it doesn't answer them.

Asimov is name-dropped a few times in TNG, and the Professor himself spoke glowingly of TOS. Wish they'd had him on the show, as they did Hawking.

The measure of a man, gave me a lot of respect for Riker. He had to put aside his beliefs and biases, to be a vigorous advocate for something he didn't believe in. He did his duty the best he possibly could. It really helped Riker prove he was not Picard's yes man.

While I understand that the movie that came out was pretty much a Robin Williams vehicle and little else, I have a soft spot for the film in my mind. I appreciated the emotional weight of living beyond loved ones, slowly becoming more human, working to better humanity. I dunno, it's an otherwise forgettable film, but I don't think I'll forget it.

Quin I love the thought provoking breakdown of the books your present. You're the Levar Burton Reading Rainbow of SciFi literature. I appreciate that, immensely. Seriously, keep up the fantastic work.

I'm so glad you brought up Data and the TNG episodes about his life/sentience. As a child I watched the episodes, and rewatching them now makes them so much more powerful.

For some reason I'm reminded of e3n, better known as Ethan from call of duty infinite warfare. Over the course of the story, basically everyone who encounters him initially treats him as an object and then rapidly warms up to him as a true brother in arms It's actually pretty touching.

I LOVE that ep. My fav bit is Data and Rikers chat after the case is over.

I own so many Asimov short story collections. 🥰 Data is the character that got me interested in robots as a kid and I do see some similarities between him and Andrew. R. Daneel too to a certain extent.

This is what I've always thought--if consciousness is just an emergent property of a complex-enough brain, then there is no reason we will not eventually create a consciousness. It's really cool to learn that Asimov of all people thought of this issue similarly. What worries me is that not only are we _capable_ of creating a conscious machine, and not only is that machine going to be indistinguishable from a human consciousness, but we won't _know_ when we've reached that point. Because the experience of being conscious is private and subjective, it's going to be very hard to pinpoint exactly when we make the jump from "a very good imitation of a human" to "basically just a human." Committing atrocities against our creations is almost a given unless we establish them as having rights _before_ we get too far into this field, and with some of the amazing modern AI I'm seeing, I'm scared we might have already missed the window.

Great video as always. On the context on the humanity of non biological intelligence I highly recommend the AMC show Pantheon. Its an animated show that revolves around mind uploading and a major part of it is the reaction of the uploaded minds and the normal humans to the new humanity of the people they once knew and the question on whether they still are these people. You will really love it and the show desperately needs exposure since it wasn’t advertised at all.

Quinn this reminds me of an episode of Futurama were Bender seeks a way to prove that he is able to have free will; and it also involved a trial.

One of my favorite subjects. Very logically and intelligently approached. Good work.

Asimov is the GOAT!

Quinn your channel is a real joy for me. I love Sci Fi but there is so much out there finding new authors and series can be a daunting task but through your insights and book reviews I have added so many gems to my growing library and for that sir I salute you! Your amazing man! I thought my Star Trek NG days were over but I'm so going to revisit this episode. As far as Asimov I am going to check out robot dreams and I'll see you on Discord as well my friend!! Keep being awesome Quinn, peace out!

Asimov and Roddenberry spoke more than a few times. He was named as a consultant in The Motion Picture and was key in the inspiration for Data and, Noonien Soong. Noonien Soong, according to the books, was a fan of people like Arthur C Clarke and Isaac Asimov. His mentor - by the name of Flint at the time (don't want to spoil for those who haven't read Cold Equarions) - encouraged this even. Soong was enfsruated with bringing the concepts to reality. He has an artists' heart where he just creates just to create. There is a practical purpose to it, but Noonien is not the type to think if he should. He thinks more on the likes of 'why the hell not?'. He didn't fit in with the ideas of Starfleet mainly due to the regulations and, the fact that if he had made Data within that sort of organization, his inventions would have been legally owned by them. To Soong, his inventions were meant to be more. So he strikes on his own after he was mocked for his failures and decides to use his canvas and his paint - in terms of his tools of course. This is one of the biggest reasons why I wouldn't mind to see a good show about Noonien Soong, the outcast, the thinker, and somewhat of a misfit. How he got the money he did to fund his own work - the books cover part of this but seeing it in action would be pretty amazing and can bring in new characters. At its core he would still be very much Federation, and has a few of the ethics - he coded Data with them after all. But given what is in the novels, he lives more at the fringes of the elegance and the more noble aspects of the Federation, needing a bit more freedom, needing to stretch his imagination as far as he could. The kind of character who is a rogue at heart, but an honorable one. If they wanted to make a show that wasn't as Starfleet but still based in that world, a Soong show could work very well, and it would be interesting to delve into the mind of the creator.

I find it interesting that in the Mega Man franchise robots and reploids follow a similar journey to that of Andrew in the Bicentennial man. Just over generations of robots as opposed to one.

Interesting discourse and great that your main sidebar was Data from STTNG - Data's journey is to be human - keep up the high quality and thank you

Oh my goodness you have always had such an awesome channel. You have the most unique and interesting artwork without very many repetitions [like a slide show looping] you cover the most interesting topics and I love your new introduction and the font you use is great!

One of the best performances by Patrick Stewart, in overall great performances as Captain Picard. This episode always gives me chills. It is no wonder why fans demanded that Sir Patrick reprise his role as Picard. He has taught a generation of young men what it means to be a man and a leader.

Great video man, I really appreciate you making videos about Scifi books and stories that I have not heard of. Your explanations are great and I love that you bring up the authors and their thoughts as well as your own on the work. I'm always happy to see a new video on your channel, thank you for all your hard work.

Hey Quinn, I have this novel on my shelf waiting to be read!😎

In any discussion about man-made objects which strive to become human, mention of Pinocchio is usually made. The fictional idea of a humanoid machine which wants to become a real human goes back over 100 years to the original Pinocchio novel. I haven't read any previous comment about it, so I mention Pinocchio here for the sake of completeness. Also, the Bladerunner movie is another brutal exploration of the humanity of androids.

Been a long time since I read it and I, Robot, but I kinda think that Andrew making himself mortal shows something you could call free will. He broke the third law, like the human intelligence with its unique abstractness can overcome any instinct and take itself in an incalculable number of directions. In time he might've broken the other two.

I saw the title of this video today at 5 am and read "The postironic man" so this was not what I expected:D

I’d love you to look into some of Stanisław Lem’s or Strugastky brothers’ books. They formed my taste in sci-if and honestly it would be great to see if you find any genre-defining (or -defying) parts of them. Absolutely love your channel mate

On the TNG slant to the ideas Asimov brought up, one of the weirdest things TNG stated was that Lore was rejected for being "too human" so Data was made without emotions to make humans more comfortable. I think the idea was it made him less of a threat. That was literally borne out as being true in the TNG narrative. That aside, it seemed that Data's lack of emotions made him less of a person and more of a tool. You don't worry if a forklift can lift more than you or a wrench can grip a nut more securely. Without emotions it's almost impossible to have your own agenda, or form goals. That's why I'm pretty sure Data had emotions, he just didn't experience them the same way.

Thanks Quinn. An excellent analysis as always. The depth and understanding of the subject you display is a pleasure to listen to.

I used to think the human brain was a machine and a sufficiently advanced machine would become like a human brain, but I've recently started to change my mind while reading about people such as Gödel and Turing, because the human brain appears to not be algorithmic the way a computer necessarily is. This line of thinking has made me see things like Asimov's work and the the Minds in the Culture differently.

Absolutely love that episode as Data was always fascinating. I love the idea of an android in general as it sort of goes beyond what a machine is Mankind build tools to improve how they do things. Each step in the evolution of said tool shows progression. When the more complex machine, then computer, is an example of this unique presses. All three of these words generally point to one concept: these are made to help mankind What happens when you go beyond a simple tool? Not a complex welder or hands off vacuum but something capable of complex thought. Data wasn’t made to do anything but be a sentient being. He was still looked at as a machine but he was built to be so much more I think it gets more complicated in the Star Wars universe. Robots are everywhere and are built for particular reasons, but many do have the ability to think. To keep them from having “logic errors” they suggest you “memory wipe” and this keeps them from going “rouge”. Unlike Data they are usually considered just tools despite many who often demonstrate the ability to demonstrate free will Sorry, more ranting, but I absolutely love this topic. Big fan of Robotics in Science Fiction and would love to hear about more on the topic 🤖

I don't even read fiction books at all... nothing but Non-fiction, but you have me wanting to go buy and read all these sci-fi books. Like your videos a lot man.

The question of the book was answered for me the moment Andrew began to ask questions himself, independent of anyone asking him. The will to search, the desire for answers, _that_ is the essence of the soul. It gives us the ability to ask “Why?” And to understand the answer, or at least to attempt understanding.

Very deep and interesting post, had to watch it twice to get it , l have 3 books on my Christmas list. My daughter started watching your channel, to get gift ideas for me , but she loves it !

The Measure of a Man is SUCH a good episode that has aged so beautifully.

I’m a big fan of Larry Niven as an author and also the works he co-wrote with Jerry Pournelle. I’d like to see your treatments of the various works by Niven and of Niven & Pournelle. The Ringworld stories, The Mote in God’s Eye and Footfall would be some material I’d love to see you create content for these, as a suggestion of where to start. Thank you in advance.

The Measure of a Man is a brilliant episode and my favorite. The first copy of a ST:NG VHS tape I owned was this episode. And I still have it.

One of my favorite episodes of Next Generation. Did you see the Bicentennial Man movie with Robin Williams? Love your videos. Especially enjoying the Dune videos as I work my way through the series. This past September I reread Dune for the third time, and Messiah for the second. The rest is new to me. I read Children of Dune for the first time in November. I’m halfway through God Emperor. I’m also bouncing in and out of the Dune Encyclopedia. This is turning out to be my favorite sci-fi series of all time. Thanks again for all the great videos.

yes that was my favorite ep of TNG .. just thinking back about it gives me goose bumps

My mum got me into Asimov's robot stories when I was about 11, they were the first literary science fiction I read and even back then, I could tell they were something special. I've been fascinated by the concept of artificial intelligence ever since.

Have you ever listened to the podcast "Strange Studies of Strange Stories" (formerly "The HP Lovecraft Literary Podcast")? They went over the Bicentennial Man. I think it's a podcast that both you and your audience will enjoy

The Bicentennial man and I,Robot are also movies are movies based off Asimov's books. Bicentennial man ( Robin Williams) which is directly about Andrew Martin the Positionic man which I quite enjoyed

Hey Quinn Any chance you could explore another, non-foundation, Asimov novel, "The God's Themselves" from 1972. It won the Hugo and Nebula awards and is a very different Asimov novel, though exploring the nature of both Life and the Ethics of Science.

When you show the cutaway of the skull flashing, its absolutely jarring to my eyes.

Off topic here, but.. I don't know if those thumbnails are ia-made or not, but I'm very excited at the idea of seeing truckloads of completely fresh, crazy and adéquat artworks of all our scifi masterpieces. Wargame people might relate : there's only so much art you can't use to illustrate the inspiring topic at hand, restraining the sense of wonder IAs might bring back in the balance,.from now on... Such future awe to come...

Interesting story, curious if you could do a video on ChatGPT and AI alignment. We are seeing the beginning of true AI. Science fiction becoming reality in the next 10 to 20 years

Zima blue episode in Love, death, and robots series on netflix must of taken inspiration from these stories.

I would love to see a video covering Karl Schroeder's Virga series. It's my favorite series at the moment, though I'm only halfway through. If I had to describe it in as few words as possible, I'd say: "It's sky pirates except it's steampunk except it's post-singularity sci-fi."

I watched the film adaptation of bicentennial man with robin williams on youtube a couple weeks ago, I liked it when I was a kid and it's still pretty good. youtube actually has quite a few free movies uploaded legitimately

I grew up on Asimov, Heinlein, AE Van Vogt, Niven, Varley, Spinrad..

Great video! I get much of my TBR from this channel. I’ve read Foundation but not this one yet. Would love to see you cover Book of the New Sun at some point, which I see on your bookshelf. Or for some truly mind-bending Gene Wolfe - check out The Fifth Head of Cerberus, which along with Dune and 3 Body is one of my favorites sci-fis ever!

There is also a very real analogy between differing neurologies and the human norm, as well as those who are not afforded their humanity trying desperately to conform in order to "earn" it.

I would highly recommend science fiction debris (SFdebris) videos on both Asimov's robot books and The Measure of a Man.

One of my favorite stories by Asimov and i can see influence from Silverberg also, pure SF gem.

It's always great to see a fellow black dude interested in science fiction

Thes books, and that episode of TNG, it gives me shivers every time. This is a topic I have been talking on for years now.

Fascinating! Thank you for your thoughts and insights

i find your voice soothing and your readings evocative

Was this the inspiration behind the love death and robots episode with the robot who made massive pieces of art and eventually wanted to return to his preconscious state?

Definite one of my favorite Scifi books. Although interesting I am often frustrated at Data's desire to become "human" as he often chooses the worst aspect humanity to aspire to. ironically immortality is something that most human aspire to, it is built into our program to want to live forever, yet these machines give that up

Hoooly,.. I think you just sold me Star Treck TNG and Ive never felt the urge to watch that

Read that as "post ironic" man at first 😂😂😂😂

One of my favorite robot stories. City by Vliff Simak probably is my favorite though. Good movie.

I would love to see a vid on Frank Herbert's Consentiency Series. My personal favorite aliens in science-fiction are in those books. The Caleban and Taprisiots are pretty awesome ngl.

You convinced me to go back and read this. I'm not a fan of later Asimov works but this sounds great.

It is also my most favorite star trek episode. There was some mention in the next gen show of Asimov, In the episode where they go to the planet Data was found and they find Lore. Jar says hes creator dreamed of making Asimov positronic brain. Also datas strive to become human mirrors Andrews. I always thought that the writer of next gen are Asimovs fans and that Data is a tribute to Asimov. Also in the DS9 episode where Sisko 'dreams' hes a writer he has a collegue played by colm (o'brian) who is clearly inspired by Asimov

Best intro music on YT.

There was a twilight zone style show that came on tv in the late 90s/ early 00s I can't for the life of me remember the name of. There was an episode where a child had some of type of accident and his father transfers his son's (and eventually his own) conciseness to android body. I was pretty young and it sparked an interest in transhumanism, never considered that it could also be applied from machine to organic human. Even when I watched the Robin Williams film the connection did not hit me until now.

Imagine being immortal and wanting to die, just to be like humans. Really! Transcendence also touched on this, all I was thinking about even in the Tv series of Westworld, was going to the stars finally! Hopefully in a part two of that movie, they will use the second chance, that was left for them at their home, in the end of that movie!

Data had several things going for him in terms of being accepted as human that Andrew didn't. 1) He was human in appearance from the start. 2) He wasn't part of a civilization that had huge numbers of non-sentient robots already. 3) He was part of a civilization that had made contact with hundreds of other alien species and had become accustomed to extending the concept of sentience beyond standard humans.

Excellent as always!

Dude crabbing a bucket? I'm going to have to think about that. I like it.

Reminds me of frankenstein in a sense, except the monster becomes disillusioned with humanity in the end

I love your content. That being said, a toaster is a toaster. Doesn't matter how smart the toaster is, it's still a toaster. Screw the railroad, long live the Brotherhood of Steel.

I watched Measure of a Man in its first run, and that's where I learned I to follow Turing's test... If I talk to someone and I can't tell they're not conscious, then I'll accept they're a conscious being. Simple enough rule for me to follow.

I know you have heard me say this a thousand times. You got my son to read with your dune book videos. It has helped me and my son create an amazing BOND. I cant thank you enough. OR COULD I. My son is now 16 and I think he would love the Steel Rat books. However he wont even give them a chance. PLEASE please please. Think about something to do a video on of the books. My son is just of the right age to TRULY enjoy. The Steel Rat. I am on my knees begging. THE STEEL RAT videos. So he will give the books a chance. He and I have read almost all the books you have done videos on. I think him and MANY others out there would LOVE the books. THEY are so stupid and amazing and funny all at the same time.

Love this subject. The Geth from Mass Effect are great examples of this. Detroit Become Human is also super dope regarding this subject.

I remember the bicentennial man movie the most touching and well made movie ever

thanks for the upload. for the algorithm

There's a great Asimov short story called "Segregationist" about a surgeon complaining about all the humans that want robot parts and the robots that want human parts. It's definitely worth a read.

i heard the new Children of Memory came out. nice jacket btw!

Two vids in as many days epic!

I'd love it if you'd cover this one in more detail!

I consider this book 0 in the robots and empire series. Andrew is actually referenced in one of the novels. Bicentenial Man is one of my favorites.

Quinn makes a good point. If a robot has to physically turn himself into a human to be considered a human... that talks bad about humans more than anything. Its like if we today wouldn't accept black people as people unless they undergo a procedure that will clinically turn their skin white, which sounds really horrible and distopian, which is basically what pretending that a robot that can think, feel, and dream has to undergo operations to have human like skin, organs and brain in order for us to accept him as a person.

Sort of related but didn't get enough attention in Star Trek was the nature of the Jem'Hadar and Vorta. If you think about it the only difference was that the Founders chose to use genetic engineering to make their servants rather than mechanics.

two in a row, excellent boss

Thank you quinn

Excellent and fascinating video as always. I wasn't aware of this book and now I want to read it. Nobody knows what is consciousness and how it comes about. There are quite a few theories. One of them is indeed that consciousness emerges somehow from the activity of the brain, though there is no explanation how exactly this happens, how an objective phenomenon creates a subjective experience. Note though that this is just one theory rather than a given truth. So, to figure out if an android or any machine can have consciousness, we would need to figure out first what is consciousness and how it's created. Would be interested to hear if there are more books that explore this topic of the hard problem of consciousness since it fascinates me.

Maybe a bit strange But I wanted to propose you dive into Stanislaw Lems "Return from the stars", because both it, and the "The Futurological Congress" Dwelve DEEP into meaning of humanity.

Great stuff, as always!

He's an absolute expy of the Bicentennial Man, added with Asimov's blessing

i remember watching the movie that was based on this book

I just found your channel not long ago and I love how informative and entertaining your videos are! You have inspired me to pick up some science fiction books both old and new. This may be a shot in the dark request but I’d love to hear what you think of the novel, “John Dies at the End” and its Sci-Fi elements. Obviously it’s not as science based in its fiction, leaning more into cosmic horror mixed with absurdist comedy, but its themes and concepts seem ripe for intellectual plucking. And if you do read and enjoy it, I’d love to hear your thoughts on the sequels! I just finished “This Book is Full of Spiders” which is the second in the series and am excitedly waiting to get my hands on the two next novels!

I always assumed "The Measure of a Man" was based on the slave mutiny on the Spanish schooner La Amistad in 1839 and the trial thereafter. Also, I believe Andrew had to die to truly become human. Young people subconsciously think they are immortal. Once you his 50 like me and your friends start dying, is when you begin to understand Asimov's Andrew.

positronics always makes me think of North Central Positronics from King's Dark Tower