Having witnessed and reluctantly been a part of the old classical music newsgroup forums going back into the '90s I can vouch that there were plenty of loonies in all these categories. Unless you heard Victor McObscurantistynsky's 1955 live recording of such and such from Sofia recorded on a potato peeler with tons of audience coughs you really haven't lived, et al.
I getcha. I dote on some such things, but it's too exhausting to keep dieing on Edward Burlingame Hills in commentland. I hope I still have enough consideration that others have their own reasoned and not-so-reasoned opinions and it doesn't harm me in the least.
You say this with the implication that there haven't been a million trivial thumb and hand crossing arguments by intellectually dearth weirdo pianists. The piano is the entry point to classical music. Idiots throw on a Chopin Nocturne and consider themselves cultured. The violin, and strings more generally, as Giulini said when analogizing Callas' voice, sound strange and offputing until they suddenly sound otherwordly. They couldn't possibly be an entry point. The piano offers its easy tone to the ears of apes legitimizing mediocrity.
I remember going to a Jenůfa with Anja Silja as the Kostelnička, and when the two sopranos took their bows at the end of the second act, I shouted BRAVE! (feminine plural). Yeah, I'm an opera nut.
It's the BRUCKNER nuts! They listen only to Mr B in the basement of their moms house. No interest in any other music. I'm an opera nut and I'm nuts but we are a more fun kind of nuts.
Perhaps the answer is all of the above…that’s why my listening is focused on symphonies, tone poems, and other works for a goodly Romantic-sized orchestra.
as a 😤 registered choral music nut and Stokowski kool-aid drinker here i must acknowledge that when it comes to the pinnacle of truly ill, dangerously imbalanced human beings you must stand in mute awe of Opera people. this combines the fanaticism of the transcendent power of music, with the worship of actors, the compelling power of drama and fantasy, and if that werent enough ! the ancient and atavistic mystery of theatre. there is no comparison to these wackos.
As an unabashed piano maven (and professional pianist in addition to my reviewing and radio hosting life), I totally agree with you! I think what's kept me relatively sane all these years is that when it comes to piano recordings, I've always tried my best to call them as I hear them, rather than what I think I SHOULD be hearing based on whom is playing!
My own piano craziness received its initiation when at age 11 I saw Michelangeli in recital. I was so completely stunned by the experience that it awakened in me a love for a kind of objective transcendence that I felt rose above emotionalism and sentimentality. His high polish and un percussive sound added to the experience. It was then a lesson for me to learn that at least in America very few people I met, held him in as high and esteem. All of this taught me to try to see my own blind spots. As the years went on, I saw the advantage of not dwelling on negativity in any artist. What I think we don’t realize is that by doing so we keep ourselves stuck, and eventually grow static in our views.
My trombone side is the epitomy of mental good health. My "screaming Queen" opera loving side will fight anyone who says Miss Norman (please note the respect) isn't the greatest Diva EVER😂😂😂
When I read the title, my first thought was "it has to be piano people!" Piano people created so many cults, whether it's artists cults or composers cults. And they believe they're right because there are so many of them. For instance, it seems like a big part of the Chopin cultists are just uneducated teenagers. If anything, the artists cults are even worse. And they're constantly renewing! One of the very latest is the cult formed around the prodigy Yunchan Lim. Yes, he's a very talented pianist, but the way his devoted fans metastasized in a matter of months is just insane. They keep bombing social media with Yunchan Lim videos: Yunchan Lim playing Chopin, Yunchan Lim playing Rachmaninoff, Yunchan Lim playing the C major scale, Yunchan Lim shaking hands (I didn't make this one up)... At this point, I wouldn't be surprised if they also knew the color of his pee. So I also want to give a shout-out to Jed Distler for restoring some sanity in the piano universe.
I thank you for your shout-out, and if I give the impression that I've helped restore some sanity in the piano universe, so be it! Of course I don't tell anyone about my stash of Richter bootlegs, let alone owning every surviving Grateful Dead performance of "Dark Star!" Now where did I put those Joyce Hatto CDs.....
Of course the positive way of looking at it is that it’s preferable to have. Yunchan cult then a continued downward trend in interest in classical music. I’m not in that cult but having recorded the Liszt Transcendentals, Chopin Etudes and Rach 3 by age 18 is remarkable, even in 2024. Also, I think I can guess the color of his “water” without even being a cult member. 🤤
I screamed "Bravi!" after five operatic performances I attended, wanted to chew the pianist out who played Rachmaninov's 2nd Piano Concerto at my first live concert because he took the second movement cadenza too briskly, and am utterly enamored of the string sonority created by Heifetz, Karajan, and Mutter. Does anyone else care that Karajan tuned his Berlin to 444 Hz? In other words, I believe I might just be nuts all around! 😮
I love many yet not all of Richter's performances. He could be brilliant, and he could be boring. You have to take it case by case. And I say this as someone who has written more articles and booklet notes about Richter than any other pianist.
Opera nut here and proud (currently in the parking lot at the opera waiting for my third Die Walkure in Atlanta. I took off work and everything. Doing it again on Sunday. Like I told my mother years ago “It’s this or coke.”
That's the best way to enjoy Wagner. Take the day off and,if you can, the next day. I always took my vacations to coincide with the Seattle Ring cycles. They aren't operas for the tired businessperson.
Is it possible to be a piano nut without being nuts about pianists? I consider myself a string quartet devotee but it's the repertoire itself I'm in love with.
I was once privileged to attend a small dinner where one of the guests was Gergor Benko. He was one of the nicest, most well-informed and rational people I've ever met.
As an opera loonie, I am devastated not to rate as the craziest. I would have thought the heated debates I heard about Leyla Gencer, Magda Olivero, or Erna Spoorenberg would have sufficed to claim the coveted rank. But sic transit gloria mundi. Notwithstanding this miscarriage of justice, thanks for a wonderfully entertaining video.
Second rate pianists living vicariously through their heroes. Haha. That’s me. But I see myself more as a composer than a pianist. I’m more of an orchestra guy than a piano guy so I was surprised crazy orchestra wackos weren’t part of this list until I got to the end of the video where you talk about conductor cults. Lol. All the crazies I’ve met were conductor worshippers. I myself was once a blind Karajan follower. Had a huge argument with a friend back in high school about who was better, Karajan or Klemps. And I hadn’t even heard a single recording by Klemperer at that point but just insisted that Karajan had to be better. Well, that just led me to lose the only friend who I had to talk about classical music with. On top of that, I now generally like Klemperer more than Karajan. 😂
Worst opera nuts 'hissing lunatics' or Loggionisti in La Scala, Milan, who boo just about everyone and everything. If you think going to La Scala will be, and should be, an experience, be prepared to hear some fine singing rewarded with jeering whistles and shouts of 'No!'.
I agree. I learned so much about these types of piano grazies by just readings the comments on RU-vid, which surely is the worts on uploads of piano works. One commentor complained regarding a Richter performance, "He made 56 errors in playing this piece!" Then someone else rightly asked, "You listen to music with a score... counting errors?" Oh, and how they can get stuck with only ONE pianist as the alpha and omega of piano playing. Occasionally I would tell someone, "This piece of music is too brilliant to be defined by only one pianist's view of it, irrespective of how great that pianist may be. Try also listening to the recordings of ... then I would mention a few other great recodings." "Oh no", the reply would usually come, "NO ONE can play this piece like... whatever the name is of their favorite pianist". Like a car stuck in one gear- A Richter-gear, Arrrau-gear, a Yuja Wang-gear. They are almost the worsts of them all- one person even stated that "in the HISTORY of piano playing there have only been 5 other pianists who could play the piano as beautiful as Yuja Wang." I once dared to mention the names of 20 great pianist who in my view are must better musicians than Wang (in fact I think the list is much longer than just 20), then I was accused of being one of those elitists who limits and kills classical music. Really? For the piano concertos of : Bramhs - I have 6 different favorite pianists, Chopin- 5, Beethoven- 10 pianists, Rachmaninov- 8, Prokofiev- 4, Mozart- 5, etc. But for the Wang cult: Best in Brahms- Yuja Wang; Best in Chopin- Yuja Wang; Best in Beethoven- Yuja Wang; Best in Rachmaninov- Yuja Wang; Best in Prokofiev- Yuja Wang; Best in Mozart- Yuja Wang! And then I am accused of being an elitist who limits classical music to only a select view of performers. And so it goes also for the cult fans of Richter, Arrau, Horowitz, Argerich, etc.
I've had arguments with these people too, numerous times. They drive me insane because they think they're so smart, especially on RU-vid. Stay strong my friend, and keep spreading common sense!
Choral singers, particularly EM specialists are the most committed and insane IMHO. We are also the most mercenary. People who can sight read and sound good at the same time are as scarce as brain surgeons. I just spent $13,000 on a concert because these are so hard to find
I hate it when people applaud before the music stops. Yes, some opera nuts only care about the singing parts. Wagnerians are the exception. As someone said, the theater is a madhouse, and opera is the ward for the incurables. There are two fandoms I know of where statistics, performance records, firsts, unsurpassed achievements are vital to any discussion: they are baseball and opera.
Totally unrelated, but I wish you would give more talks on Faure! He's one of my favorite composers and his chamber works are brilliant and underrated.
My conjecture is that the piano became more popular with the advent of affordable digital keyboards and pianos, so they became a majority. Also more recently on RU-vid, many piano competitions including the international chopin competition have been streaming all of their videos live, and a community of listeners has formed.
It's a tough fight between the pianoraks (Jeremy Nicholas coined that term) and Bruckner nuts. Because there are so many of them piano crazies (from all over the world), they are dangerous force.
I think we need in-depth series on artist cults (one video per artist). Would be especially curious about living artists because this impacts their appointments, recording deals, etc.
I think the opera crazies exhibit the same behaviour as the piano people. Having a wobble, singing flat, or not perfectly coordinating your registers is proof that you are a bad person. In my experience on RU-vid, Kirsten Flagstad is the only singer who inspires admiration that doesn’t transcend into fanaticism, and who does not provoke insane opposition. Cultishness follows all the others. There is even a Franco Bonisolli cult that holds him up as the paragon of taste!
I started to tell this particular pianist that I loved listening to Alfred Brendel and before I could say another word she replied “Oh he’s not any good, Friedrich Gulda is so much better”!😳
You forgot to mention the HIP fascists. Of course, at least in the realm of baroque music, they've completely taken over so I guess maybe they're not considered crazy anymore.
No, they are crazy. Does not matter how many they are now, how large their following is- they really are a bunch of nuts. Just imagine playing a 18th or early 19th century piano concerto on that most pathetic sounding of all instruments, the fortepiano, and then, just because it is historically correct, telling yourself, "Oh, this is SO much better than performing it on a modern day piano"- while every one who has ears can hear it sucks on a fortepiano and would have sounded MUCH BETTER on proper piano!
I thought for a long time that outside of Bach, Franck, Durufle and Messiaen, the organ literature is mediocre. Endless fanfares to show off the instrument make up most of the rest. It’s a world with it’s own orbit.
The craziness begins when anyone confuses their humble opinion with some kind of universal reality. Doesn’t the world suffer because people are deluded into believing that the partial truths they perceive is the entire truth?
Dave is right about Opera Loonies.....I worked in a record store in the 90s right when vinyl had gotten phased out and cassettes were on their way out as well....and the opera loonies were a handful. A couple of real crazies. I consider them FAR WORSE than any Piano freaks. I remember the Cheryl Studer crowd 😄 I also remember the Cecilia Bartoli crowd! Another issue for me were the OCD "one composer fan/freaks" who obsess over one composer and present themselves to be experts on the composer. They also are a handful.
@@jdistler2 Lived for a century. She WAS amazing but ....so many of them were just so OCD.....I had to special order so much product for these OCD folk. The "professional chorus" in our city had a Conductor there who worshipped Robert Shaw. They would only obtain Shaw recordings from Telarc. In 1992, They took time to get there.
I had record store customer experience in that time as well and saw all the crazies...opera loonies easily would have won in the 1990's. It's the drama! The string loonies I knew were all romantic poetic types (like English teachers), and the piano loonies a bit like beatniks (who knew a lot about knowing). But the opera loonies were fan boys and fan girls who were drawn to the drama of humanity.
@@Dmorty1166 This older gay couple came in frequently and they traveled all over (this is in Tulsa, OK)....they would head out to Chicago Lyric and the Met all the time. They knew their stuff....not too crazy but still a handful. One time a guest conductor for Tulsa Opera came in....we shot the bull and even HE knew the aforementioned couple! He KNEW many singers too. He was in town conducting Tosca....so we chatted about the film that had just gotten released of Placido and Catherine Malfitano. He knew about the crazies first hand! It was so hard to order all those pirated live recordings. Thank God for Naxos I had a good quality cheaper offering for the annoying crazy cheapskates! The sweet older lady who was a Placido groupie I couldn't really blame as in the 20th century he really wasn't that bad on the eyes and there were so few great Tenors who could actually ACT. She bought everything he did......RCA, DG, and Sony ALL.......
I would have assumed the opera crazies would be the worst (and I say that as an opera fan myself). I've sat through innumerable arguments over Callas vs. Tebaldi in particular. And what about the composer crazies? You've already done a lot of ridicule about the Bruckner cult (cue the horse's neigh from "Young Frankenstein"), and to a lesser extent the Mahler cult. (I"ve written in previous comments that I don't "get" Mahler at all, so maybe John Culshaw and I were part of the "anti-Mahler cult").
What I can't stand in the classical piano world, are pianists who consider 'stuttering' to be good rubato and phrasing. By 'stuttering', I mean putting gratuitous, 'meaningful' hesitations before nearly every chord and every cadence. I can't stand that. You wouldn't talk like that. Who sings like that!! However, for sheer lunacy, I think organists and organ buffs might take the cake. Arm chair, 'would be' conductors are the worst, though. None of them have the slightest idea what real conducting entails.
Im most definitely a piano nut, but in my own way I think. Im a self taught pianist, so I dont think I could ever fit in with actually classically trained musicians. My faves are Sostakovich and jellyroll morton. (Or maybe this is just another case of piano nut individualism lmao)
Countering the piano nuts, I'm reminded of an andedote regarding Liberace's manager Seymour Heller. When Heller told a recording big wig that he just discovered Liberace and wanted to promote him, the exec replied with: what the f- are we going to do with a pianist.
Piano loony here, Have my loves and dislikes (including some revered names that their groupies would bristle at me disliking.) In universities too, profs and students with their revered little niches, if you don't know the Boismortier Flute Sonatas you're a nincompoop not worth the time of day.
Ever heard rock guitar nerds talk about subtle differences in amp tubes, or between a ‘58 and a ‘59 Les Paul? It’s everywhere 😂😂😂 Connoisseurship is mostly a blessing and a bit of a curse. I realized a long time ago that you can’t be a connoisseur of everything unless you have unlimited funds and time, and even then you probably shouldn’t!
